Court Shoots Down Bethesda's Scrolls Request

[CardinalPiggles]

I still don't see how Zeni not pursuing this case means they can't sue other similar (possibly more extreme) cases.

Say they didn't sue, and someone tried to trademark The Eldest Scrolls, why would they not be able to sue them.

Still though, I'm glad to see Mojang get a +1.

 

[chadachada123]

The thing we've all established is that, in any sort of "common sense" world, Scrolls is fine and obviously completely different from the Elder Scrolls series.

Additionally, Mojang having Scrolls does not mean that Bethesda can't still have Elder Scrolls.

That, above, is what common sense dictates, and what a jury would agree on.

Why can't they just legally agree to follow what common sense dictates and leave it at that? This way, Bethesda keeps their trademark and all rights related, Mojang keeps ITS trademark and all rights related, and other companies can piss right the fuck off. Everyone wins.

 

[TConti]

The people writing these things about this case seem to be morons with an obvious bias. I'm not talking about the escapist alone but most gaming sites in general just exploded today saying Mojang won. This created great confusion within the majority of people who don't understand legal diction or have not researched all facts in the case. Its been nothing but poor journalism across the board.

 

[Zarkov]

It is good to see the judge making an intelligent decision on the matter. I don't see myself confusing any of The Elder Scroll games with Scrolls from Mojang. A brain dead lawyer working for Zenimax however is a whole different story.

Ugh, It's been said a hundred times.
It's not the hardcore gaming crowd that is going to get confused.
It's the mothers, grandmothers and casual players that might get things crossed.

But that's not even the point.

The point of this whole issue is that Notch filed a trademark on the word scrolls, and when won, mean that HE would own the trademark of that word in any "Fantasy Based Video game" and not only that, but radio, tv-shows and even t-shirts as well.

This would mean that if Bethesda let this happen, Notch can effectively demand that they change their title.

Not only that, but even if Notch and Bethesda were to say "Eh, I know you won't screw us, and you know we won't screw you. So lets ignore this.", then that would mean that other companies would use that as a legal example and thus could Trademark "The Elder Browls" Because Bethesda is okay with such things.

Actually no ... Mojang can't demand a trademark that was there before his company even existed be changed. It doesn't quite work that way.

This is an example of Bethesda taking a small up and coming company to court to bleed them dry. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not concerned by what conclusions others have come to.

Notch isn't small. He might have been, but as of right now he's swimming in money. Loooaads of money. There's no way Bethesda has a chance of bleeding the company out, especially not with another game on the horizon. No, actually, the Elder Scrolls and Scrolls are technically different, and thus when Notch applied for the trademark Bethesda thought this was an aggressive move towards their trademark. Which it could be, but I doubt it.

The best conclusion would be that Bethesda flexes its muscles and Mojang still keeps the title but realizes that it can't to whatever they want with it. Coexisting is better than anything else. Will that happen? Nope, but one can hope.

 

[DanDeFool]

I wanted Bethesda to win, mostly because I have Notch with a fiery passion.

WHAT?!?

Dude! That's just... DUDE!

Listen, I don't know how you got a hold of Notch Persson, or what exactly your "firey passion" entails, but just because you 'have' him (probably in your secret love nest, no doubt), doesn't mean you should wish him defeat in the court of law.

I mean, it seems to me that he's got bigger problems, what with you 'having' him and all. I mean, God knows what horrible, nasty, things you're doing to him in your secret evil lair. Listen, I don't care about the lawsuit anymore, just let him go! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET NOTCH GOOOOOOO!!

And the moral of this story is, always proofread your forum posts!

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Despite that, the court ruled in favor of Mojang, saying that while there are similarities between Scrolls [http://www.amazon.com/Elder-Scrolls-V-Skyrim-Xbox-360/dp/B004HYK956/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318948845&sr=8-1], there are also significant differences, and the intended audience for these games are likely to be aware of these differences and, more to the point, unlikely to confuse them.

That was what I was thinking when this started. Out of any market, gamers are probably the most well informed.

 

[Strazdas]

so, everything is going according to plan. this seems to work as a great publicity stunt!

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Ah people already delighted at this kind of amuses me considering that Zenimax more or less had to sue for copyright laws reasons or it could lose the copyright. Just because people and companies do this doesn't mean that they always want to do it.

Do you know if they try to defend it(as they are) and lose, will they lose the trademark rights?

Seems like if they lost it would be harder to defend it if they needed to again.

Also really escapist? I've seen some bad titles, but this one is dire. It's condridicted by the first paragrapgh, and it's hardly shot down, as an appeal is still present. very baffeling...

It's just for generating traffic(ad revenue and all that stuff to keep the site up and people paid), at least the article itself is not misleading.

Yes if they don't they will lose it anyway and they won't lose trademark an agreement will be met as this will likely be settled out of court. This is just purely legal matters and people are way too sensationalist for attacking Zenimax and even worse when they think Bethesda is being a ****.

 

[remmus]

3) Minecraft wouldn't have been as successful if it had not piggybacked off the popularity of Warcraft. "Craft" has name recognition. Now they get to piggyback off Elder Scrolls. I should make a new FPS franchise called "Medal of Duty." Titles are powerful, folks.

if it was a fantasy RTS then yes it could be claimed to piggyback ride on Warcraft, at tops the piggybacking is more about making people turn and look at it, but it´s popularity is still 99% based on being the right kind of game at the right time, not because it has Craft in parts of it´s title.

 

[Neonit]

the biggest mistake people make is to assume that law has anything to do with common sense. hah, it really doesnt....
second mistake - you think bethesda gives a damn about notch and his scrolls? no, they do not. you think they see him as a threat?
now, i want you to try something, just say out loud "bethesda is afraid of notch and his scrolls". admit it, it just sound stupid.
third mistake - you think bethesda gives a damn if they win or lose that case? that is not even important to them, they have to sue them, because if they dont, other - real - companies (at this point notch can go ahead and play in sandpit) could use that incident in the court.

people, i like my minecraft just as much as i like elder scrolls, but for crying out loud, this isnt a debate about who is right and who is wrong. its just a standard procedure that simply has to happen because law is retarded - long live the law.

 

[The_Vigilant]

It is good to see the judge making an intelligent decision on the matter. I don't see myself confusing any of The Elder Scroll games with Scrolls from Mojang. A brain dead lawyer working for Zenimax however is a whole different story.

Trust me, the lawyers are only doing it because the executives asked them to. They'd much rather be relaxing in their plush offices writing new end user licensing agreements to strip you of the few rights you still possess.

 

[Niccolo]

Ah people already delighted at this kind of amuses me considering that Zenimax more or less had to sue for copyright laws reasons or it could lose the copyright. Just because people and companies do this doesn't mean that they always want to do it.

I wish people'd understand that. Hopefully the judge'll be smart enough to say something like "Yeah, this is close enough. Any closer and it'd probably be copyright infringement" or we'll be repeating this in a few months with someone else using this as precedent.

What also bugs me is when they say that it was Bethesda doing the suing - not Zenimax. Bethesda had absolutely no say in the suit; they're all designers. It's the suits in Zenimax who pay the lawyers.

 

[Jibblejab]

I wanted Bethesda to win, mostly because I have Notch with a fiery passion.

WHAT?!?

Dude! That's just... DUDE!

Listen, I don't know how you got a hold of Notch Persson, or what exactly your "firey passion" entails, but just because you 'have' him (probably in your secret love nest, no doubt), doesn't mean you should wish him defeat in the court of law.

I mean, it seems to me that he's got bigger problems, what with you 'having' him and all. I mean, God knows what horrible, nasty, things you're doing to him in your secret evil lair. Listen, I don't care about the lawsuit anymore, just let him go! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET NOTCH GOOOOOOO!!

And the moral of this story is, always proofread your forum posts!

Who said that was a typo?

 

[GoddyofAus]

Karma's a *****, Bethesda. You had the chance to settle this with Notch outside of court, and you blew it.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Good. The whole idea was retarded anyway. I might as will sue someone for using the word "The" in their game because my game has that in it. Most people dont even call them "Elder Scrolls" games, mostly use Morrorwind, Oblivion or Skyrim to identify them anyway. Seriously, only the biggest retard on the planet would confuse the games.

If they called theirs "Elder Scrolls" then fair enough, but they used "Scrolls" which doesnt mean much on its own.

 

[Phantom Echo]

Eh, this is about par for the course.

The fact of the matter is that it's just as ridiculous that Mojang could get the word 'Scrolls' copyrighted as it would be if Bethesda won rights to control it. I, on the whole, am largely opposed to the idea that single-word names can be copyrighted in anything other than a 'Don't plagarize me' capacity.

When you have a game called Scrolls... then the copyright ought to be very, -very- specific to that exact game. Preventing the infringement of rights on behalf of artists and authors is important, after all.

But creating a system in which Scrolls could be owned by one group, and therefore its usage in any title anywhere might therefore constitute an infringement of copyright seems wrong to me.


I'm not an expert on international copyright laws, though. So it might make sense to someone else. But to me, if you didn't CREATE the word... or put together a chain of them creatively... I don't think that randomly slapping it onto something should qualify it as being 'yours'.

That's about as sensible as claiming ownership of everything you've ever licked.

In which case, there's probably a few exes you folks might want to go get back in touch with.

 

[rustybroomhandle]

Need to knock you around with a silly-stick a bit too. It's common practice for trademarks to be filed to cover a bunch of different things. "The Elder Scrolls" for example has trademarks that cover its use in movies, books, sweatshirts, t-shirts, caps etc.

Actually, as far as the trademark for The Elder Scrolls goes...

Mojang's "scrolls" application is similarly scattershot, attempting to cover TV shows, radio programs, movies, education materials, clothing of all kinds, videogame consoles, toys, playing cards, puzzles, stand-alone game cabinets in addition to the videogame. The application encompasses four separate trademarks over the course of its weighty 300 words. Zenimax's "Elder Scrolls" patent application, by contrast, is a single sentence: "Pre-recorded CD's and DVD's featuring fantasy games."

That was written by someone who did half-assed research.

These are all for "The Elder Scrolls" and all by Zenimax:

IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Pre-recorded CD's and DVD's featuring fantasy games.

IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothing, namely, T-shirts, shirts, sweatshirts, fleece pullovers; headwear, namely, hats.

IC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: Providing on-line forums for transmission of messages among computer users concerning computer games. FIRST USE: 19950630. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950630

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely,[ providing on-line computer games; ] providing information on-line relating to computer games and computer enhancements for games;[ providing a web site featuring information related to fan club services ]. FIRST USE: 19950630. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19950630

I believe there's one for TV shows/movies too.

USPTO searches are free.

 

[The Virgo]

Who didn't see this happening? I mean, anybody with more than 10 brain cells can see that there's no similarity between "The Elder Scrolls" and "Scrolls" except for one word.

Ranting aside, I'm happy for Notch. Yes, there's still a lot more to go, but at least that part is over and done with. On to Stage Two.

 

[remmus]

Knew someone would say this before I even posted. Like clockwork!

I said the word "as" in a key place. "It wouldn't be *AS* popular." That is quite different from "it wouldn't be popular."

and I´m still saying the fact it has craft in it´s name is so little of a impact in SALES I don´t even wanna say 1% of the sales is based on that, and since sales is how you measure popularity, I say you craft talk holds little ground.

 

[remmus]

If it is only 0.1%, "it wouldn't be *AS* popular" is a correct statement.

Even so, you're underestimating the power of game titles. They can make or break a game. Hell, they can make or break anything that anyone sells. Warcraft has been a household name due to the success of Blizzard's Warcraft franchise. Then they made Starcraft, which was also wildly popular. Almost seems, so far, that Blizzard has a de-facto claim on ___craft. Therefore, there is a subtle psychological effect of naming your game ___craft due to the immense branding ___craft already had well before Notch even started making Minecraft. If you're just arguing for the severity, or lack thereof of naming it ___craft, then we can go in circles forever and ever as it's just conjecture about the varying subconscious effects from game titles.

I dont underestimate the power of game titles,but it is not a source of a piggyback success unless a player is so stupid he buys a game for it´s title and not it´s gameplay..you know the core of a game.

So yeah, still saying Minecraft would only really piggyback on it´s namesake if it was RTS too