Crytek: PCs Are a Generation Ahead of Consoles

Guitarmasterx7

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Mar 16, 2009
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They're definitely a bit better, but I don't know about a whole generation. I've got a good custom gaming build and I don't really see that much of a difference. Ok, a bit shorter load times and slightly better graphics, but microanalyses aside there isn't as much difference as say, this

to this
 

MR T3D

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Feb 21, 2009
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Super Toast said:
Balobo said:
Super Toast said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
You've got to remember that plenty of people like those games. Also, BioShock was considered ground-breaking at the time. And although you claim that console players only care about graphics, hardware and brands and PC players only care about innovation, it's the other way around 90% of the time.

PS: Please use spellcheck. I could barely read that.
Console gamers care about innovation? HAHA
PC elitists aren't retarded neckbeards? HAHAHA!

Face it kid; you're fighting a losing battle.
You know COD? that game that now symbolizes the 'popular modern-day generic FPS that sucks compared to my beloved team hats 2'?

It wasn't popular until COD4 sold like hotcakes...on the consoles. that has had profound influence on the subsequent game's developments. Genres such as the space sim/fight combat/sim have practically died out, or become tiny niches mainly on the PC because console gamers, by and large, don't want different gameplay beyond the platform-er, racer, and the shooter. And 2 of those are getting awful stale now.

Even the RPG, shooter are weaker on console, games like fallout or even half-life/L4D on console are simply inferior for any serious gamer, compared to their PC versions, with their community adding unique, innovative content to the game, the developer just can't take risks on crazy idea, but the community can. And the indie games scene is much bigger on PC than XBLA/PSN, by nature of the PC platform.


But closer to the topic of the thread, hardware potential and what you can do with it:
Sure, visuals may not be getting much better, but that doesn't mean better hardware won't make for better games, because the mind know no limit, but a computer does. Yeah, we have pretty environments today, but there is only so much you can do with it. Tomorrow, on better hardware, let's have pretty environments even our subtle actions manipulate, both in fine detail and in large-scale and doesn't disappear when we leave, can come back, but stays when we come back. let's have more characters doing more complicated things at the same time, without needing to load what was behind that little wall. let's have more ways to get to the goal, let's have games constantly challenge what we think is possible to imagine seeing AND doing, give us a visual feast many come to expect from modern games.
 

bob1052

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Oct 12, 2010
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Logan Westbrook said:
Yerli thought that games like Crysis 2 [http://www.amazon.com/Crysis-2-Pc/dp/B002BS47YE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290768962&sr=8-1] represented the ceiling of what could be achieved with the Xbox 360 or the PS3, and said that Crytek would struggle to "squeeze more juice from these rocks." He also thought that future CryEngine projects would be hampered creatively by these technological limitations.
The Wykydtron said:
I find this article quite lolworthy

1. Complain about Consoles in general
2. Release Crysis 2 on PC and Consoles
3.????
4.PROFIT!
Reading stuff before posting usually helps. Crysis 2 (which is severly toned down already going from PC to console) is at, what they call, the "ceiling".
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Aug 12, 2009
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I, not having the money to shell out on a top of the line computer or new game consoles, am fine with this technological limitation as long as it means I can keep using my few years old computer and Xbox 360 for new games.
 

jamesworkshop

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Guitarmasterx7 said:
They're definitely a bit better, but I don't know about a whole generation. I've got a good custom gaming build and I don't really see that much of a difference. Ok, a bit shorter load times and slightly better graphics, but microanalyses aside there isn't as much difference as say, this

to this
It was one of Cevat's points that you don't see much of a difference because developers are constrained by the consoles, ask yourself this, say you were IW making MW2 would you for an extra 10% of sales that the PC version roughly accounted then spend time using a more powerfull engine then redoing every texture and 3d model and level in the game with say 7 times more complexity, Or would you just release it with an unlocked framerate and resolution with a few extra textures so it does not look silly at a higher resolution



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cez6vkBc1l0&hd=1

Not just visual but physics as well
 

Super Toast

Supreme Overlord of the Basement
Dec 10, 2009
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MR T3D said:
fanboy rage/
Once again, plenty of people like CoD4. And just because you can do more with a PC doesn't mean that consoles are crap. Consoles are easier to use, less expensive and get more games. If you deny any of these facts, then you're a helpless fanboy. I'm a PC and console gamer, while you've probably never even seen a console. Try both first.
 

ultrachicken

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Dec 22, 2009
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Of course PCs are better in the hardware department, but frankly, graphics aren't what's important in games, and if I were a PC gamer I would rejoice that I don't have to replace my graphics card soon. I know I'm glad I don't have to shovel out 300 dollars on a new console.
 

fundude365

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According to Moore's Law PCs get twice as good every eighteen months; Twice as fast, cheap or small. Consoles release every five years or so and, thus, take much larger jumps so that the technology can try and stay ahead of what the game developers come up with. Unfortunately for the technology whore in me (but fortunately for my poor, abused wallet) the rising of the Casual Gamer has caused the gaming industry to slow the technology race in order to make games more accessible to everybody; hence the arrival of Kinect rather than the next xbox five years after the 360's release. So it'll be a while before we start seeing graphics rendered on the fly that has the same quality as Starcraft II's on the consoles.
 

nipsen

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Sep 20, 2008
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Except.. well.. the reason why this "generation" has lasted for about ten years, is that the single thread performance paradigm is ending. We can't get processors to go past 4Ghz without a small power-plant to drive the cooling. So the next step is parallelism.

This isn't exactly something new - the problem has always been that it requires two things before parallel computers become economically viable.
1. transistor size becomes small enough.
2. integrated buses are constructed.

Strange thing is that both of those are already fulfilled. Has been for several years. So why don't we have smaller tabletops, netbooks and mobile phones with integrated buses available in mass right now? After all, it is actually cheaper to produce generic chips with programmable instruction sets rather than separate peripherals.

It is also a very known and real bandwidth problem with having the industry standard architecture (ISA) bus - since it limits very much the speed with which the different devices can communicate. Attempts have been made to circumvent this - creating gpgpu methods that don't store data in system ram, but on the graphics card's ram; for specialized operations this is demonstrably the fastest method, precisely because it circumvents the bottleneck with the ISA (or a separate interconnector bus).

Meanwhile, Intel threatens to sue Nvidia for making an integrated system that does combine gpu/cpu on a single chip. And it slows the adoption of that alternative for a number of years. Another factor limiting adoption of this scheme is the fact that it means rewriting software solutions, and - for example - creating abstraction layers that are compatible with the previous paradigm. Allowing an integrated system to run the same code as an ISA construction. Something that is time-consuming on it's own, as well as limiting performance that could have been leveraged otherwise.

The truth is that it's not consoles that hold the development back this time. It's the industry's lack of interest in fully moving on to a parallel paradigm. Even though it is necessary to increase the processing power of general applications (rather than specialised code that can, obviously, run very fast in gpgpu accelerated contexts).

Of course - we see attempts, such as ARM branching out to Netbooks, and Nvidia successfully releasing their ION chipsets - though of course specifically tailored for the slimmer markets, safely staying away from desktops and workstations, just like ARM. Even though that isn't actually necessary. In fact, we have several examples of integrated systems that perform as well, and many times better, than ISA based implementations.

But as long as the big players refuse to move on to the parallel paradigm - while developers of software acknowledge the fact that processor speed and peripheral cards is nearing their limit - this is a problem we will have.

I'll be specific - the applications of an integrated system that has fast ram and multiple cpus that can run tailored instruction sets controlled programmatically is interesting for:
1. animation technology. We wish to see more interactive animation, meaning that there is a need to update graphics-contexts more frequently. This is severely limited when either all calculations has to be performed via gpgpu acceleration, or else has to involve cpu-time and context-switches.
2. physics calculations. Node-generation and traversal can be performed tremendously fast nowadays thanks to more common multiple core cpu-arrays in desktops. But again we have the problem that while it can be performed quickly, it cannot be as readily updated in the graphical context. This means limited real-time application of calculations like these. Typically, a thread would be opened, and the context updated with new static arrays when time allows. This isn't very effective, and insists on a particular type of design that won't allow the dynamic contexts artists and designers might imagine. Workarounds also take tremendous time to create, and the end result becomes more static than it could have been.
3. Size of graphical contexts. As we do hit a wall on producing graphical contexts with high resolution and many objects, we see graphics card manufacturers start to temp with intermediate scene-construction more explicitly than before. Essentially, this is about creating the scene references, then reducing it, and only drawing the updated areas (which of course speeds up the scene-generation a lot). Similar methods are used for acceleration when drawing primitives - common methods are collapsed to simpler instructions that require fewer clock-cycles to complete. And this is silently adopted by developers on the code-level.

But in reality, what we really want to do is generating larger graphical contexts, and then simply letting the graphics processing unit find out what is supposed to be rendered, and then never worry about scene or object complexity. But to do so, we require high amounts of processing power that can run on:
1. multiple processor units that have
2. programmable instruction sets and "advanced" logic.

Since reducing scene complexity is most efficiently done when using the collapsed and simpler functions, rather than linear iterations of the same algorithm (which is what we're really doing on graphics cards).

This is an area that we will probably not see any progress in on PCs within the foreseeable future. Because it means that the industry will have to move away from producing separate entities with different licensing on the hardware itself. And over to licensing instruction sets for use in different programmable systems.

So for the first time since computers really took off - where we will see progress now is not in peripheral cards and cpu speed (as mentioned, we do know that we're hitting a wall. While generating generic parallel code for multiple processor elements has limitations as well. There is no such thing as code that can be mechanically parallelized endlessly while also getting performance improvements). ..not in peripheral cards and cpu speed - but in embedded systems with specifically created platforms (i.e., software and hardware).

This is what the industry will allow for, and this is what will force itself ahead. In other words - PCs are actually dead. The next PC - thanks to the way the industry works - will be a console, as a matter of definition.

Where software and hardware will be specifically built to launch optimised and specifically written software. We would wish for that the next PCs that turn up actually are generic systems with integrated buses over programmable multiple cpus. But in practice, there are no software giants who are willing to simply bear the cost of the initial research and software production. And there are no hardware giant that can defend creating a new platform at the moment that is free/open.

So any "PC elitism" can please go and have a break. If you buy a PC, and continue to upgrade your cards and components in infinitesimal increments performance wise, you are part of the problem. :/
 

nipsen

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Sep 20, 2008
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Zeithri said:
I think the irony of this is that the PC's aren't capable of handling many of the pretty console games.
This statement is void.
..uh, oh. You've done it now..

But still - what about mentioning the Dreamcast, and how it lost out to the xbox - which had less processing and graphics performance. And was about equal to a reasonably fast PC at the time..

Or the ps2 - which actually did compete with PCs graphically for a silly length of time. Way before consoles apparently started to hold PCs back.. Still envious of a buddy who never had the kind of dips in the framerate, and skips on the controls that I did on my massively superior (and ridiculously more expensive) PC.. :(
 

jamesworkshop

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Sep 3, 2008
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Zeithri said:
I think the irony of this is that the PC's aren't capable of handling many of the pretty console games.
This statement is void.
Which PC's

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/12788968667K0gVsvzTK_4_2.gif
http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1286442355tCXafRvsMc_2_5_l.gif

they do more than handle them
 

ph0b0s123

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Bre2nan said:
ph0b0s123 said:
Oh and before being accused of being a die-hard, fanatic, PC fan-boy. I say this, if console makers allow a mouse controller for certain games on a console - I will drop the PC tomorrow. In fact if console makers did this the PC games market would be dead over night....
You can already connect a keyboard and mouse to the PS3. The hardware is there, it just needs the software to follow suit.

As for this whole debate, I've never been a graphics whore ... ever ... so I fail to see how a slight increase in screen resolution and rendered polygons makes for a better gaming experience. Part of that might be that I've never owned a high-end gaming PC, or even touched one. The hardware was always too expensive for me, and I'd rather spend that money on a one-time console purchase and some games. I'm happy with my current PC, even though I can't run anything newer than Half-Life 2 without it sputtering out.

Really, we're at around the apex of what can be done graphically with the medium, so can we cut this shit out and focus on the games already?!!!
(Puts head in hands) I'm sure on all consoles with USB you can connect a mouse and keyboard, but what's the point without game support. Non-one said consoles are not technically capable of handling mouse input. Which is why it is so annoying that it is not supported. The reason that I belive console makers have blocked this support is a whole other discussion.

And the argument that extra resolution and polygons does not benfit the gaming experience, I am not touching with a barge pole. Except to say it would carry more wieght if you only have a Wii or a previous gen console in your home. But I assume you have a 360 or PS3 and I bet you are not running it off an SD TV....