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Herbivore

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BonsaiK said:
Herbivore said:
Officially, there are no punch-ins on classical recordings, ever, because the musicians are so talented and they never make a mistake. In reality, yes, it happens all the time, just like it does in rock music, the classical world is just a bit less honest about it.

The typical way to record an orchestra is to hang two very sensitive condensor microphones above the conductor's head. From his position, the seating arrangement of the players is designed so that he hears a balanced sound that doesn't require mixing. That's what normally happens. However, there are situations where that doesn't work. Frank Zappa made the first digital multitrack recording of a symphony orchestra and he did it because the usual two-microphones technique didn't work in the crappy room he was using, so he went for close-micing instead. Outdoor classical concerts often get close miced too, especially if there's high wind or high environmental noise (traffic nearby, planes going overhead). And yes multitrack recording does give you more control later, which is helpful if you're recording with a really shitty, non-rehearsed or drunk orchestra (happens more often than you think).
Cool, thanks for the reply. But why do you need two microphones? Is it because of the same reason most animals have two ears, to be able to determine where the sound is coming from?

And the examples you mention for the multitrack recording make it sound like you've had to work with a drunk orchestra. That sounds frustrating.
 

BonsaiK

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Herbivore said:
BonsaiK said:
Herbivore said:
The typical way to record an orchestra is to hang two very sensitive condensor microphones above the conductor's head. From his position, the seating arrangement of the players is designed so that he hears a balanced sound that doesn't require mixing.
Cool, thanks for the reply. But why do you need two microphones? Is it because of the same reason most animals have two ears, to be able to determine where the sound is coming from?

And the examples you mention for the multitrack recording make it sound like you've had to work with a drunk orchestra. That sounds frustrating.
If you record using two microphones above the conductor's head pointed at each half of the orchestra, and pan them left and right when you mix them, the result is a stereo signal where each person in the orchestra sounds like they're sitting in exactly the position that they are sitting (more or less) when you're listening through headphones or with sensibly-located speakers. If you only used one microphone, the signal would be mono. You could of course use one stereo microphone, but that's rarely done because you can only point a stereo microphone in one direction, it lacks the versatility of two mono microphones.

And frustrating yeah, tell me about it. Actually alcohol wasn't a major issue for me personally but I've had to work with heroin addicts in an orchestra before. Not fun times.
 

Squarez

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What happens when a band/artist decides to call it quits or when a label drops them after minor (or even major) success that hasn't continued? Is it difficult to get employed elsewhere after years in the music industry - especially if they had some level of fame. Is it possible to continue working in the business as a producer or some other role?

Judging from what you've said before, unless you reach huge amounts of success it's unlikely that you could retire on the money you made...
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Squarez said:
What happens when a band/artist decides to call it quits or when a label drops them after minor (or even major) success that hasn't continued? Is it difficult to get employed elsewhere after years in the music industry - especially if they had some level of fame. Is it possible to continue working in the business as a producer or some other role?

Judging from what you've said before, unless you reach huge amounts of success it's unlikely that you could retire on the money you made...
Most bands give up at that point thinking "well, we had our shot". The reason why is that labels tend to put a band in debt if the band doesn't recoup their advance costs, and signing the same entity again to another label usually means accumulating a second debt. It depends though. If the band has built a solid following during their time on the label, they could easily get another deal, and may not even need the label after that and may do future projects as a distribution deal only, or on the internet. That's how people like Trent Reznor managed to make the transition to Internet sales, but of course if you're not as big of a household name as him that's not going to work for you. Another option is of course going to work on the other side of the business and there are people who do that but relatively few, as being a "rock star" doesn't tend to attract people with a good head for business and aspirations to be in an office somewhere 8 hours a day, rather it tends to attract people trying desperately to avoid all that.
 

zombie goat fetish

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Have you any advice for someone who want's to release his own music on his own label.

Basically I make my own music and what complete freedom of my music I am not interested in selling hundreds or albums. I have a name for my label I was just going to put my label stamp on my cds and leave it at that.
 

BonsaiK

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zombie goat fetish said:
Have you any advice for someone who want's to release his own music on his own label.

Basically I make my own music and what complete freedom of my music I am not interested in selling hundreds or albums. I have a name for my label I was just going to put my label stamp on my cds and leave it at that.
Well if you don't even care how many you sell, then you can just sell them to family and friends and you don't even need the label stamp. A record label is essentially a "company", it's a business entity, so you only need that if you're actually planning on doing business. Of course some people choose to have a "label" anyway even if they only sell 3 CDs but I think that's more about ego and personal validation. But then I suppose, what music industry activity isn't...

If you actually wanted to make some money, then you could try and attain a distribution deal for your label. Of course for that to be viable, you need to have music that people will actually want to distribute (i.e people might want to buy it) otherwise your distributor may not wish to take it on. So it helps to have at least some level of popularity before you attempt this.
 

Arkhangelsk

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I recently watched the DVD with Parkway Drive, and a question popped up in my head. Besides being away from your family and your comfort zone, how much more different is it to tour overseas on another continent than to tour in your own country or nearby countries?

Also, seeing as the scene of metalcore is pretty bland (not saying that the music is bad, but many bands seem to copy each other an awful lot in this subgenre), is there a market for that kind of music, and where is this music most wanted?
 

BonsaiK

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Arkhangelsk said:
I recently watched the DVD with Parkway Drive, and a question popped up in my head. Besides being away from your family and your comfort zone, how much more different is it to tour overseas on another continent than to tour in your own country or nearby countries?

Also, seeing as the scene of metalcore is pretty bland (not saying that the music is bad, but many bands seem to copy each other an awful lot in this subgenre), is there a market for that kind of music, and where is this music most wanted?
Touring: depends what your home country is. Geographically, Europe is by far the easiest place to tour. Everything's nice and close together with lots of people. Makes a big difference. In touring you're away from family and comfort in any case, the main issues you have to worry about when going international are making sure your visas are correct and that things are appropriately organised wherever you're going (or that you'll be okay even if they aren't). A few pages ago someone asked me about touring internationally and I wrote a long list of things to check up on before you go.

Plenty of market for existing metalcore bands, as for new bands I'm not so sure but I guess history will tell. It's still a pretty popular style especially with young people and you could almost look at it as a "gateway" type of music to other stuff. I.e most people who heard Cannibal Corpse probably heard Metallica/Slayer/whoever first, decided they liked that heavy sound, and therefore started investigating other bands that were heavier. Metalcore will probably evolve a bit too, I'm sure it won't be played the same way in 15 years that it is played now, unless people are being deliberately retro of course.
 

Arkhangelsk

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BonsaiK said:
Arkhangelsk said:
I recently watched the DVD with Parkway Drive, and a question popped up in my head. Besides being away from your family and your comfort zone, how much more different is it to tour overseas on another continent than to tour in your own country or nearby countries?

Also, seeing as the scene of metalcore is pretty bland (not saying that the music is bad, but many bands seem to copy each other an awful lot in this subgenre), is there a market for that kind of music, and where is this music most wanted?
Touring: depends what your home country is. Geographically, Europe is by far the easiest place to tour. Everything's nice and close together with lots of people. Makes a big difference. In touring you're away from family and comfort in any case, the main issues you have to worry about when going international are making sure your visas are correct and that things are appropriately organised wherever you're going (or that you'll be okay even if they aren't). A few pages ago someone asked me about touring internationally and I wrote a long list of things to check up on before you go.

Plenty of market for existing metalcore bands, as for new bands I'm not so sure but I guess history will tell. It's still a pretty popular style especially with young people and you could almost look at it as a "gateway" type of music to other stuff. I.e most people who heard Cannibal Corpse probably heard Metallica/Slayer/whoever first, decided they liked that heavy sound, and therefore started investigating other bands that were heavier. Metalcore will probably evolve a bit too, I'm sure it won't be played the same way in 15 years that it is played now, unless people are being deliberately retro of course.
Okay, cause from what I've seen metalcore receives lots of criticism for it's simple songwriting. There are good bands, but there seems to be a very big line of bands who write the same stuff. And many of those I meet who do like metalcore specifically like those with over-the-top clean vocals, such as Asking Alexandria and Bullet For My Valentine.
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Arkhangelsk said:
BonsaiK said:
Arkhangelsk said:
I recently watched the DVD with Parkway Drive, and a question popped up in my head. Besides being away from your family and your comfort zone, how much more different is it to tour overseas on another continent than to tour in your own country or nearby countries?

Also, seeing as the scene of metalcore is pretty bland (not saying that the music is bad, but many bands seem to copy each other an awful lot in this subgenre), is there a market for that kind of music, and where is this music most wanted?
Touring: depends what your home country is. Geographically, Europe is by far the easiest place to tour. Everything's nice and close together with lots of people. Makes a big difference. In touring you're away from family and comfort in any case, the main issues you have to worry about when going international are making sure your visas are correct and that things are appropriately organised wherever you're going (or that you'll be okay even if they aren't). A few pages ago someone asked me about touring internationally and I wrote a long list of things to check up on before you go.

Plenty of market for existing metalcore bands, as for new bands I'm not so sure but I guess history will tell. It's still a pretty popular style especially with young people and you could almost look at it as a "gateway" type of music to other stuff. I.e most people who heard Cannibal Corpse probably heard Metallica/Slayer/whoever first, decided they liked that heavy sound, and therefore started investigating other bands that were heavier. Metalcore will probably evolve a bit too, I'm sure it won't be played the same way in 15 years that it is played now, unless people are being deliberately retro of course.
Okay, cause from what I've seen metalcore receives lots of criticism for it's simple songwriting. There are good bands, but there seems to be a very big line of bands who write the same stuff. And many of those I meet who do like metalcore specifically like those with over-the-top clean vocals, such as Asking Alexandria and Bullet For My Valentine.
Since when was simplistic songwriting ever a barrier to mainstream success, career longevity, or even being taken seriously as a musician? Sometimes the best things are the simplest. That's not to say that there isn't a place for technical complexity too - musicians in particular like to hear other musicians push the boundaries of their chosen instrument - but the average punter doesn't care about that stuff and just wants to hear sounds that they like, preferably in some kind of danceable rhythm.
 

Ham_authority95

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Have you ever written songs about other people in your life or what they've done and worried about them hearing it and getting pissed?
 

BonsaiK

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Ham_authority95 said:
Have you ever written songs about other people in your life or what they've done and worried about them hearing it and getting pissed?
Yes. I promised a recent girlfriend that if we broke up, I wouldn't write a song about her! Then we broke up. So far I've kept my promise. I also wrote a song about a death threat I've received, I've played it to rooms full of people including that specific person but I guess he didn't want to call me out on it because he knew that'd make him look like even more of an asshole.

Generally speaking, most songwriters don't use names (or at least real names) when writing songs about people they know, and that's how they'll get around the issue.
 

Ham_authority95

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When you DJ do you use Vinyl or a computer? And how do DJ's use Vinyl for longer sets, do they just pack all the records they need in a box or something?
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Ham_authority95 said:
When you DJ do you use Vinyl or a computer? And how do DJ's use Vinyl for longer sets, do they just pack all the records they need in a box or something?
I try to use vinyl exclusively if I'm DJing at a club somewhere, but I'll use all three if DJing for a radio station. DJ setups are modular like computers, and can be rigged to use any sound playback device, just like a computer can be rigged to use a hard disk, floppies, USB drives, optical drives etc.

As far as transport, yes, DJs do exactly what you described. Examples: http://www.getinthemix.co.uk/vinyl-storage/
 

gyroscopeboy

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I had a question about managers...what should you look for in one? Im in a band that is extremely self sufficient (produce our own records, get our own well paying shows, organise our own promo and shoot our own professional videos), if we got a manager they'd have to bring something awesome to the table otherwise we could just do it ourselves. Is just having a bunch of contacts worth a percentage of our income?
 

BonsaiK

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gyroscopeboy said:
I had a question about managers...what should you look for in one? Im in a band that is extremely self sufficient (produce our own records, get our own well paying shows, organise our own promo and shoot our own professional videos), if we got a manager they'd have to bring something awesome to the table otherwise we could just do it ourselves. Is just having a bunch of contacts worth a percentage of our income?
Managers are there to do things that you can't/won't, that's the bottom line. Really big artists need them because there simply isn't time to fit in everything, the manager is really a "workload manager" much like a personal assistant, who takes control of all the more menial shit that the artist doesn't have the time/inclination for so they can stay focused on the business of making art and making all those gigs, interviews and promo appointments. If on the other hand you're already doing everything that a manager would conceivably do, and you don't mind that being the way it is and aren't snowed under with work, I'd advise against getting one. Quite a few artists manage themselves and that's fine, however some hate the drudgery of it (and the bigger you get, the more drudgery there is) so they'll get managers.

What you want to look at with a manager is - can they help with the specific goals you have in mind? For instance a manager might be useful to book a tour of Europe and organise transport, accomodation and promo if you don't know anybody in Europe and can't speak European languages. That's a really practical, specific kind of situation where the right type of manager can help. If you don't have a specific scenario like that, or a specific thing you'd like your manager to do for you, then that's a good indication that you probably don't really need one at this stage.
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Shivarage said:
Question about a show called "glee"

how does that program make money?
I knew someone would ask me about Glee eventually. Amazed that it's taken this long.

The answer: much like any other TV show. People watch it, advertisers pay to endorse and place ads in the show, that pays for the actor's salaries and the (probably quite minimal seeing as how there are no explosions) production budget. Plus there is the iTunes store which no doubt helps make it a ton of extra money.

If what you meant instead was more along the lines of "why do people watch and listen to this shit" then my answer to that is that it's very happy and escapist, and lots of people like happiness and escapism. People who are into "dark-mood" kind of music are actually a minority in the world, as crazy as that may sound. A lot of depressed teenagers like dark stuff because as a teenager that's how a lot of them feel most of the time and so do people into various specific non-mainstream genres and also a lot of nerds, but the average mainstream person out there wants to hear upbeat happy songs that they can sing along to, being sung by bright shiny people who they can still kind of relate to and who don't look like too much like circus clowns (a little is okay though). Also, just as a TV show, it's kind of upbeat and fun and it isn't about people getting shot or having kinky sex so it's marketable to a broad range of people. Also the show's concept of having a bunch of young people singing other people's songs and doing dance routines to them is just like the "Rock & Roll Eistedfords" they used to have at my old school where people would dance and mime to music and those things were hugely popular, and meant way more to kids than stuff like prom night because it wasn't just a social activity with music, it was also creative, people could come up with their own group dance routines etc. The only difference with Glee is that those people are actually also doing the singing. It seems pretty obvious to me how people would like a show like that. Not something I ever would take time out of my day to watch but I can see why it has a broad appeal and why it would make money.
 

Shivarage

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BonsaiK said:
I knew someone would ask me about Glee eventually. Amazed that it's taken this long.

The answer: much like any other TV show. People watch it, advertisers pay to endorse and place ads in the show, that pays for the actor's salaries and the (probably quite minimal seeing as how there are no explosions) production budget. Plus there is the iTunes store which no doubt helps make it a ton of extra money.

If what you meant instead was more along the lines of "why do people watch and listen to this shit" then my answer to that is that it's very happy and escapist, and lots of people like happiness and escapism. People who are into "dark-mood" kind of music are actually a minority in the world, as crazy as that may sound. A lot of depressed teenagers like dark stuff because as a teenager that's how a lot of them feel most of the time and so do people into various specific non-mainstream genres and also a lot of nerds, but the average mainstream person out there wants to hear upbeat happy songs that they can sing along to, being sung by bright shiny people who they can still kind of relate to and who don't look like too much like circus clowns (a little is okay though). Also, just as a TV show, it's kind of upbeat and fun and it isn't about people getting shot or having kinky sex so it's marketable to a broad range of people. Also the show's concept of having a bunch of young people singing other people's songs and doing dance routines to them is just like the "Rock & Roll Eistedfords" they used to have at my old school where people would dance and mime to music and those things were hugely popular, and meant way more to kids than stuff like prom night because it wasn't just a social activity with music, it was also creative, people could come up with their own group dance routines etc. The only difference with Glee is that those people are actually also doing the singing. It seems pretty obvious to me how people would like a show like that. Not something I ever would take time out of my day to watch but I can see why it has a broad appeal and why it would make money.
Very interesting... I do understand why people like it, High School Musical was a great success so why not (what I think is basically) a tv series of it?

I was gonna ask about royalties but you pretty much answered that, is it considered "selling out" to let a program like this use your song?

I'm pretty sure the singing is all autotuned, is it?

I vaguely remember a "glee talent contest" or soemthing like that where someone gets to join the cast, is it rigged? (silly question but I am just curious xD)
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Shivarage said:
BonsaiK said:
I knew someone would ask me about Glee eventually. Amazed that it's taken this long.

The answer: much like any other TV show. People watch it, advertisers pay to endorse and place ads in the show, that pays for the actor's salaries and the (probably quite minimal seeing as how there are no explosions) production budget. Plus there is the iTunes store which no doubt helps make it a ton of extra money.

If what you meant instead was more along the lines of "why do people watch and listen to this shit" then my answer to that is that it's very happy and escapist, and lots of people like happiness and escapism. People who are into "dark-mood" kind of music are actually a minority in the world, as crazy as that may sound. A lot of depressed teenagers like dark stuff because as a teenager that's how a lot of them feel most of the time and so do people into various specific non-mainstream genres and also a lot of nerds, but the average mainstream person out there wants to hear upbeat happy songs that they can sing along to, being sung by bright shiny people who they can still kind of relate to and who don't look like too much like circus clowns (a little is okay though). Also, just as a TV show, it's kind of upbeat and fun and it isn't about people getting shot or having kinky sex so it's marketable to a broad range of people. Also the show's concept of having a bunch of young people singing other people's songs and doing dance routines to them is just like the "Rock & Roll Eistedfords" they used to have at my old school where people would dance and mime to music and those things were hugely popular, and meant way more to kids than stuff like prom night because it wasn't just a social activity with music, it was also creative, people could come up with their own group dance routines etc. The only difference with Glee is that those people are actually also doing the singing. It seems pretty obvious to me how people would like a show like that. Not something I ever would take time out of my day to watch but I can see why it has a broad appeal and why it would make money.
Very interesting... I do understand why people like it, High School Musical was a great success so why not (what I think is basically) a tv series of it?

I was gonna ask about royalties but you pretty much answered that, is it considered "selling out" to let a program like this use your song?

I'm pretty sure the singing is all autotuned, is it?

I vaguely remember a "glee talent contest" or soemthing like that where someone gets to join the cast, is it rigged? (silly question but I am just curious xD)
"Selling out" - what that constitutes depends who you talk to. Even so much as putting an album out is usually "selling out" in the eyes of somebody. What is "selling out" anyway? Should musicians not be entitled to make money from songs that they wrote? But yes there are artists who have vetoed Glee covers, no doubt to protect the brand (aka "integrity").

Autotune - yeah, most of it. A really good reason why: most of the original songs they're covering were also Autotuned in their original form, so they have to use it or they won't sound authentic.

Talent contest rigged? I guess all things are possible, but I doubt it. Why would they want someone who wasn't the most talented applicant to join the cast? Mind you, most musical competitions of any sort have some kind of shady element to them so who knows.