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ShakyFiend

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What you do sounds pretty much my perfect career, how did you get started? Also general advice for doing things like this in the industry?
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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ShakyFiend said:
What you do sounds pretty much my perfect career, how did you get started? Also general advice for doing things like this in the industry?
That question is super-general, especially given that I actually have several mini-jobs rather than one huge one. I guess I got started by playing lots of music, joining bands, meeting people involved in that scene, and it sort of spread out from there. You might have to narrow your question down a bit if you want a more meaningful response than that, because I have a feeling that you might be referring to a very specific part of what I do, but I'm not sure which part.

Really, really general industry advice:

* You don't have to be nice to everyone, but be nice to the people who deserve niceness.

* Try not to get involved with energy vampires and other toxic individuals, especially people who have delusions of grandeur, who are everywhere.

* Excessive drug and alcohol consumption has just as much potential to ruin your career in this field as any other.

* Music might seem like an escape from the 9-5 but it is not - in fact you may end up working even longer hours than your friends who went to law and accounting school.

* If you like money and living comfortably, consider a different field.

* Be prepared to be morally flexible.
 

Ham_authority95

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BonsaiK said:
Eggsnham said:
I have a question, sorry if it's already been asked, but here goes:

What does it take to become a part of the industry?

I don't just mean producers executives either. Though I would like to know how one becomes a producer/Executive.

Like how is a musician most likely to be signed?
Musicians getting signed: already answered - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.216487-Curious-about-the-music-industry-Find-out-stuff?page=4#7377251

Producers: building your own studio and then recording bands there is the guaranteed way, although it certainly does require some capital outlay. That actually makes you an audio engineer rather than a producer, but then just because you're the engineer doesn't mean you can't double as a producer too. Once you have a good quality studio built and advertise it, bands will come knocking. If you happen to record a few bands that go on to do big things, bigger bands may then come knocking. You can also increase your rates then.
What kind of rates would you charge if you started doing this? Just as cheap as reasonable so that the poor underground musicians you know can record?
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Ham_authority95 said:
BonsaiK said:
Eggsnham said:
I have a question, sorry if it's already been asked, but here goes:

What does it take to become a part of the industry?

I don't just mean producers executives either. Though I would like to know how one becomes a producer/Executive.

Like how is a musician most likely to be signed?
Musicians getting signed: already answered - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.216487-Curious-about-the-music-industry-Find-out-stuff?page=4#7377251

Producers: building your own studio and then recording bands there is the guaranteed way, although it certainly does require some capital outlay. That actually makes you an audio engineer rather than a producer, but then just because you're the engineer doesn't mean you can't double as a producer too. Once you have a good quality studio built and advertise it, bands will come knocking. If you happen to record a few bands that go on to do big things, bigger bands may then come knocking. You can also increase your rates then.
What kind of rates would you charge if you started doing this? Just as cheap as reasonable so that the poor underground musicians you know can record?
Where I live, a cheap studio with industry standard (ie ProTools) multitrack digital recording and decent mics and sound isolation booths might charge something like $80 per hour. Studios that have better equipment, have a reputation for turning out good product or are in a high demand area can charge more. Not many charge less, and the ones that do probably aren't much better than a home studio anyway. Rates and times are often negotiable to some extent because engineers aren't silly and they realise bands are often on a tight budget and it's very expensive for them to record at all, so studios will discount their rates if you book an entire day or multiple days. Certain things may also cost more - expect to pay a premium to work with analog equipment instead of digital, for example.
 

Ham_authority95

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BonsaiK said:
Ham_authority95 said:
BonsaiK said:
Eggsnham said:
I have a question, sorry if it's already been asked, but here goes:

What does it take to become a part of the industry?

I don't just mean producers executives either. Though I would like to know how one becomes a producer/Executive.

Like how is a musician most likely to be signed?
Musicians getting signed: already answered - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.216487-Curious-about-the-music-industry-Find-out-stuff?page=4#7377251

Producers: building your own studio and then recording bands there is the guaranteed way, although it certainly does require some capital outlay. That actually makes you an audio engineer rather than a producer, but then just because you're the engineer doesn't mean you can't double as a producer too. Once you have a good quality studio built and advertise it, bands will come knocking. If you happen to record a few bands that go on to do big things, bigger bands may then come knocking. You can also increase your rates then.
What kind of rates would you charge if you started doing this? Just as cheap as reasonable so that the poor underground musicians you know can record?
Where I live, a cheap studio with industry standard (ie ProTools) multitrack digital recording and decent mics and sound isolation booths might charge something like $80 per hour. Studios that have better equipment, have a reputation for turning out good product or are in a high demand area can charge more. Not many charge less, and the ones that do probably aren't much better than a home studio anyway. Rates and times are often negotiable to some extent because engineers aren't silly and they realise bands are often on a tight budget and it's very expensive for them to record at all, so studios will discount their rates if you book an entire day or multiple days. Certain things may also cost more - expect to pay a premium to work with analog equipment instead of digital, for example.
How much money would be put into a studio if you where to start building one tomorrow?

Also, have you built a studio before?
 

Small Waves

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Nov 14, 2009
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Why can't we hire someone to break Dave Fridmann's hands so he can never operate a mixing board again?
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
5,635
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Ham_authority95 said:
BonsaiK said:
Ham_authority95 said:
BonsaiK said:
Eggsnham said:
I have a question, sorry if it's already been asked, but here goes:

What does it take to become a part of the industry?

I don't just mean producers executives either. Though I would like to know how one becomes a producer/Executive.

Like how is a musician most likely to be signed?
Musicians getting signed: already answered - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.216487-Curious-about-the-music-industry-Find-out-stuff?page=4#7377251

Producers: building your own studio and then recording bands there is the guaranteed way, although it certainly does require some capital outlay. That actually makes you an audio engineer rather than a producer, but then just because you're the engineer doesn't mean you can't double as a producer too. Once you have a good quality studio built and advertise it, bands will come knocking. If you happen to record a few bands that go on to do big things, bigger bands may then come knocking. You can also increase your rates then.
What kind of rates would you charge if you started doing this? Just as cheap as reasonable so that the poor underground musicians you know can record?
Where I live, a cheap studio with industry standard (ie ProTools) multitrack digital recording and decent mics and sound isolation booths might charge something like $80 per hour. Studios that have better equipment, have a reputation for turning out good product or are in a high demand area can charge more. Not many charge less, and the ones that do probably aren't much better than a home studio anyway. Rates and times are often negotiable to some extent because engineers aren't silly and they realise bands are often on a tight budget and it's very expensive for them to record at all, so studios will discount their rates if you book an entire day or multiple days. Certain things may also cost more - expect to pay a premium to work with analog equipment instead of digital, for example.
How much money would be put into a studio if you where to start building one tomorrow?

Also, have you built a studio before?
Depends how good you want to make it. If it's just the sound equipment itself, not so much - especially as that stuff gets cheaper all the time. The real expense in building a good studio is building isolated, soundproofed and acoustically tailored rooms to record sound in. You can spend five digit sums very easily just on that part of things before you even start to buy anything that requires electricity.

A home studio just for personal use is another matter, anyone can do that extremely cheaply with improvised materials, cheap software and secondhand mixing boards. However, it will look ugly and you won't get the same results, but if that doesn't bother you, go for it. You should be able to find some how-to's on the web.

I do have a very modest home setup, but I've never built a proper studio because I don't have the necessary construction knowledge, I'm hopeless with tools, wood and so forth. However one of my bosses built his own studio and I do work in that from time to time, and it's as good as any other I've ever been in.
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Small Waves said:
Why can't we hire someone to break Dave Fridmann's hands so he can never operate a mixing board again?
Are you kidding? Sleater-Kinney's "The Woods" is the best they ever sounded.
 

gyroscopeboy

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Nov 27, 2010
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Ok, I have a question:
If I have an album recorded, mixed and mastered professionally (and i mean industry standard, professional), and the artwork all done, with the band already having their image worked out and played many shows...Would a label PREFER something they can just walk in and promote? or would they rather a much more rough demo and the ability to shape an artists "look and feel" and also pick a producer they feel is best?
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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gyroscopeboy said:
Ok, I have a question:
If I have an album recorded, mixed and mastered professionally (and i mean industry standard, professional), and the artwork all done, with the band already having their image worked out and played many shows...Would a label PREFER something they can just walk in and promote? or would they rather a much more rough demo and the ability to shape an artists "look and feel" and also pick a producer they feel is best?
Depends on who's running the label. Many labels will deliberately seek out stuff that they know will already fit 100% with what they're doing, so the artist therefore doesn't need to change. This however then can create potential problems if the artist wants to change. It's a myth that an artist changing their sound/image/etc is something always done at the behest of the label. Sometimes it's true, but a hot artist with genuinely good music can just say "fine, if you won't release it I'll find someone who will" and then the label's fucked - they just lost a hot artist. Also, if a label could just mold anyone into anything then they wouldn't need to even make an effort signing anyone - they could just sign anything they felt like and then shape it however they see fit. In reality, it doesn't work that way - nobody can make your blues band play deathcore, there has to be at least some push from within the band unit itself.

The cold hard fact is that most bands who already have their music and image prepared are often not psychologically prepared to face the fact that although they love what they're doing to bits, from an outsider's perspective they've sometimes (and by "sometimes" I mean "very, very frequently") actually done a really bad job. Artists often like the idea of being on a label but rarely have any real insight into how the label system works financially, and even less insight about how what they're doing is going to be perceived by a bunch of strangers outside of their inner circle of friends, family and punters (who will all happily tell you that the emperor is fully clothed). Artists also have a nasty habit of taking criticism badly, so when they have a meeting with a label and the label says "well, it's got potential but you really have to change x y and z or we won't sign you because we simply can't market this, because no-one in their right mind will buy it as it stands", then the artist gets all pissy and is like "evil corporate labels trying to control my precious art, it's a conspiracy grrr" instead of "gee, maybe given current market trends 1995 isn't the best time to release a glam metal band's debut album, maybe that label will lose a lot of money backing me in my current artistic state and is just giving me options and making a sensible business decision, just as I would if I were running a company".

Hope that answers your question at least partially. I guess the short answer is they like the ready-made artist if that artist doesn't suck, and the moldable one if they do. However, what artist is willing to admit that they suck and could use some sincere help from the nasty corporate machine? You might be starting to realise why success is so rare...
 

gyroscopeboy

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BonsaiK said:
gyroscopeboy said:
Ok, I have a question:
If I have an album recorded, mixed and mastered professionally (and i mean industry standard, professional), and the artwork all done, with the band already having their image worked out and played many shows...Would a label PREFER something they can just walk in and promote? or would they rather a much more rough demo and the ability to shape an artists "look and feel" and also pick a producer they feel is best?
Depends on who's running the label. Many labels will deliberately seek out stuff that they know will already fit 100% with what they're doing, so the artist therefore doesn't need to change. This however then can create potential problems if the artist wants to change. It's a myth that an artist changing their sound/image/etc is something always done at the behest of the label. Sometimes it's true, but a hot artist with genuinely good music can just say "fine, if you won't release it I'll find someone who will" and then the label's fucked - they just lost a hot artist. Also, if a label could just mold anyone into anything then they wouldn't need to even make an effort signing anyone - they could just sign anything they felt like and then shape it however they see fit. In reality, it doesn't work that way - nobody can make your blues band play deathcore, there has to be at least some push from within the band unit itself.

The cold hard fact is that most bands who already have their music and image prepared are often not psychologically prepared to face the fact that although they love what they're doing to bits, from an outsider's perspective they've sometimes (and by "sometimes" I mean "very, very frequently") actually done a really bad job. Artists often like the idea of being on a label but rarely have any real insight into how the label system works financially, and even less insight about how what they're doing is going to be perceived by a bunch of strangers outside of their inner circle of friends, family and punters (who will all happily tell you that the emperor is fully clothed). Artists also have a nasty habit of taking criticism badly, so when they have a meeting with a label and the label says "well, it's got potential but you really have to change x y and z or we won't sign you because we simply can't market this, because no-one in their right mind will buy it as it stands", then the artist gets all pissy and is like "evil corporate labels trying to control my precious art, it's a conspiracy grrr" instead of "gee, maybe given current market trends 1995 isn't the best time to release a glam metal band's debut album, maybe that label will lose a lot of money backing me in my current artistic state and is just giving me options and making a sensible business decision, just as I would if I were running a company".

Hope that answers your question at least partially. I guess the short answer is they like the ready-made artist if that artist doesn't suck, and the moldable one if they do. However, what artist is willing to admit that they suck and could use some sincere help from the nasty corporate machine? You might be starting to realise why success is so rare...
Cheers! That's some useful insight :) I ask because my old band had a few meetings/showcases with Sony, etc and we came to them with a full album ready to go, artwork and all, and nothing ever came of it...we really would have appreciated some feedback too! i think it was for the best at the time though...it came about 6 months too early haha
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Novs said:
How much do you charge an Illustrator/Graphic designer/Artist for album art and covers? :p
I think you meant "pay", not "charge".

Depends on what's involved. Also depends on if you're getting your graphic designer to handle manufacture as well, or just design. Generally they prefer to just do design but sometimes it's easier to give them some extra money and say "can you please get someone to print 5000 copies of this". Colour used to cost more than black and white, because the printing process was more complex, it was all film-based (and might still be in many cases), you needed multiple negatives, one for each primary colour, and you'd build up your colour CD booklet like a rainbow, whereas black and white was only one negative. A graphic designer would charge you per negative, and you will probably need multiple negatives for a multi-page booklet. That's why a lot of 1990s CD covers only had one or two colours in the sleeve booklet - a good way to cut costs but still look like you've got a "colour booklet" is just to leave out a primary colour or two, meaning you don't need the film for those colours, plus your art looks like it has a cool tint or "colour theme" to it. It's changed a bit lately, with a lot of pressers now going completely digital, so colour printing costs have decreased because you don't need tons of film but you still need tons of ink and colour ink costs more. Someone in the printing industry could tell you more, I don't work directly with that stuff much like I used to, I'd rather just give someone money and let them handle it, but let's just say that I laugh in the face of anyone worried about peak oil, they should check out the comparative price per gallon for printer ink.

That's just for normal covers, anything special (non-standard materials, unusual physical formats, that Tool album with the goggles is a good example) typically make the price shoot through the roof - and that's just designing, wait until you have to actually manufacture the bastard. I've paid artists as little as $200 for a really small job but you can spend thousands very easily, they sky's the limit really. I know a guy who released a CD in a marble and granite case recently, I shudder to think what that would have cost him.
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Maraveno said:
1 Who decides on album length?(Considering the Kooks had 204 songs recorded when they brought out "Inside in the inside out" but only went with about 30 songs
2 Is it physically possible to work a solo and a band career or a band and another band side by side as artist?
3 can a sound engineer/DJ be with a band without actually being part of the show setup(in other words not be signed with the label but still adding stuff to the process for example)
4 Are Labels Genre specific or are there many labels with split interest?
1. The label will usually have a minimum and maximum that they will allow a band to do, and then the band works within that framework. Personally I think anything over an hour is stupid and testing the listener's patience, but I won't stop a band that really wants to record that double album. They might have to give me a really good reason though. Also, the practice of recording way more songs than you need and then picking the best ones for the album is really common (although I'd consider 204 excessive!).

2. Yes. Several artists have done it, sometimes for an artistic change of pace, and sometimes to work around contractual obligations, i.e if Band A is contracted to only release one album every 12 months but they really want to release two, if they rebadge the project as Band B and release stuff under that name the label can't legally object.

3. Usually sound engineers have their own separate contracts or agreements with the band (or label) which is a separate entity to the deal between the band and the label. An engineer being considered "part of the band" in a contractual sense is extremely rare.

4. There's plenty of both, varies case by case. There's also a lot of labels that started out as genre specific but since opened up to other genres (metal labels Roadrunner and Earache both spring to mind).
 

rosac

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So, I like house and dance music, and although I haven't made any myself, I am interested in the creation of this music type.

My question is, if I were to just start playing around with some tunes, are there any hard and fast rules for buying a synth, and what is the best free recording software?

Also, I was wondering what is the best way to work towards becoming a house DJ at a club or a bar? I would freaking love a job like that.

Cheers, keep up the interesting reads.
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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rosac said:
So, I like house and dance music, and although I haven't made any myself, I am interested in the creation of this music type.

My question is, if I were to just start playing around with some tunes, are there any hard and fast rules for buying a synth, and what is the best free recording software?

Also, I was wondering what is the best way to work towards becoming a house DJ at a club or a bar? I would freaking love a job like that.

Cheers, keep up the interesting reads.
Rules for buying a synth - if it sounds good, it's good. That's all. Ease of use isn't a big deal, you can learn to use anything if you try, even the most finnicky synth isn't anywhere near as hard to play as a violin. Reliability is no big deal, things can be fixed if they break, synths are almost never a "write-off".

Audacity is the best recording software that I've seen if you have no money.

If you want to be a DJ at a club I'd start by volunteering at a local community radio station that specialises in club type music - every big city has one. You might get experience or you might not, but what you will definitely do is meet people involved in that scene who can help you further. I got club DJ gigs through my radio station work and I wasn't even trying to get them, I don't even like DJing in clubs, friends just asked me to do it and I said yes. Once you're plugged into that network, the opportunities will come.
 

rosac

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Sep 13, 2008
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BonsaiK said:
rosac said:
So, I like house and dance music, and although I haven't made any myself, I am interested in the creation of this music type.

My question is, if I were to just start playing around with some tunes, are there any hard and fast rules for buying a synth, and what is the best free recording software?

Also, I was wondering what is the best way to work towards becoming a house DJ at a club or a bar? I would freaking love a job like that.

Cheers, keep up the interesting reads.
Rules for buying a synth - if it sounds good, it's good. That's all. Ease of use isn't a big deal, you can learn to use anything if you try, even the most finnicky synth isn't anywhere near as hard to play as a violin. Reliability is no big deal, things can be fixed if they break, synths are almost never a "write-off".

Audacity is the best recording software that I've seen if you have no money.

If you want to be a DJ at a club I'd start by volunteering at a local community radio station that specialises in club type music - every big city has one. You might get experience or you might not, but what you will definitely do is meet people involved in that scene who can help you further. I got club DJ gigs through my radio station work and I wasn't even trying to get them, I don't even like DJing in clubs, friends just asked me to do it and I said yes. Once you're plugged into that network, the opportunities will come.
Ah, cool, thank you, although I appear to have killed the conversation on here. I do that.

OR

You have answered everyones questions, if so, I salute you good sir.
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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rosac said:
BonsaiK said:
rosac said:
So, I like house and dance music, and although I haven't made any myself, I am interested in the creation of this music type.

My question is, if I were to just start playing around with some tunes, are there any hard and fast rules for buying a synth, and what is the best free recording software?

Also, I was wondering what is the best way to work towards becoming a house DJ at a club or a bar? I would freaking love a job like that.

Cheers, keep up the interesting reads.
Rules for buying a synth - if it sounds good, it's good. That's all. Ease of use isn't a big deal, you can learn to use anything if you try, even the most finnicky synth isn't anywhere near as hard to play as a violin. Reliability is no big deal, things can be fixed if they break, synths are almost never a "write-off".

Audacity is the best recording software that I've seen if you have no money.

If you want to be a DJ at a club I'd start by volunteering at a local community radio station that specialises in club type music - every big city has one. You might get experience or you might not, but what you will definitely do is meet people involved in that scene who can help you further. I got club DJ gigs through my radio station work and I wasn't even trying to get them, I don't even like DJing in clubs, friends just asked me to do it and I said yes. Once you're plugged into that network, the opportunities will come.
Ah, cool, thank you, although I appear to have killed the conversation on here. I do that.

OR

You have answered everyones questions, if so, I salute you good sir.
Don't worry about it. This thread moves slow and that's the way I like it. New threads move quicker because they attract more dickheads who just want to be first, inflate their post count with something stupid, etc. Older threads are more worthwhile because chances are that anyone who posts in them actually wants to fucking know something and isn't just jerking off in your face. Quality > quantity.

Also, another thing about buying synths - don't be fooled into thinking the newer stuff is better. In many cases it is for user-friendliness but most of the new gear is just emulating the sounds of the old gear, especially these days with retro synth sounds being absolutely huge. Ask any professional electronic musican what their favourite gear is and most of them are more likely to start pulling out obscure stuff they picked up at garage sales from the 1980s than the latest new toy. Old synths and electronic gear are hard to find because the demand for them is so huge now, but grab them if you can get them. I found a TR-808 at a garage sale once for less than the price of the meal I had that day.
 

Ham_authority95

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Dec 8, 2009
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How much of a market is there for noise music? Nobody I know has heard of people like Merzbow, so where are it's fans?