Cyberpunk 2077 Review thread - Umm....

Casual Shinji

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Other way around, they're quite broadly fine people but there's a tiny miniscule (possibly 1 guy) who are asshole (and probably have serious mental health issues that are untreated).
When there's this much hate going around within this community (not just regarding this topic) it's safe to say it's not just a few bad apples. There's something within geek and gamer culture that's just fucking vile.
 
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CriticalGaming

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When there's this much hate going around within this community (not just regarding this topic) it's safe to say it's not just a few bad apples. There's something within geek and gamer culture that's just fucking vile.
I think that vileness boils down to the kind of people that gaming tends to attract. I would imagine that gaming is a solace for a lot of people that were bullied and picked on a lot growing up, to various degrees. As a result people retreat into gaming as an escape from social interaction, I know I did this as a kid well before there was the internet. However this causes poor social skills to develop because people aren't relating to people in the real world.

Now we have the internet and it has provided a way for socially stunted people to speak with the world, but that doesn't mean they have the skill set to do so in rational manners. Which is why this particular subculture has so many bad apples.
 

Baffle

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Other way around, they're quite broadly fine people but there's a tiny miniscule (possibly 1 guy) who are asshole (and probably have serious mental health issues that are untreated).


Gaming is mainstream nowadays. Gamers are utterly average people. Not better, not worse.


It is more worthwile to ask if nongamers below the age of 45 are weirdos or not ?
I don't think that's quite right to be honest.

If you see gaming as a very casual hobby in the same way that, say, watching films or going to the gym, are, then yeah, most gamers are 'normal' people. And yet no other hobby I've ever engaged in,* casual or 'serious' (lets say woodwork, because it's a specific hobby that requires a lot of time and investment), has ever shown itself to have the same level of toxic shittiness to it that gaming has.

Football fans are the same -- probably mostly okay, but their image is completely trashed by how vile a not insignificant number of them are (online especially).

*I've never played Warhammer, which I understand is also awful.
 

Casual Shinji

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I think that vileness boils down to the kind of people that gaming tends to attract. I would imagine that gaming is a solace for a lot of people that were bullied and picked on a lot growing up, to various degrees. As a result people retreat into gaming as an escape from social interaction, I know I did this as a kid well before there was the internet. However this causes poor social skills to develop because people aren't relating to people in the real world.

Now we have the internet and it has provided a way for socially stunted people to speak with the world, but that doesn't mean they have the skill set to do so in rational manners. Which is why this particular subculture has so many bad apples.
No, it's pretty much the same as the fan culture in sports, particularly soccer. People invest too much time and brain power into it, and then get super fucking apeshit pissed if someone else dares touch, criticize, or change it. These aren't just bully victims and socially unskilled individuals.
 

Dreiko

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The 1st one at least had entertaining characters that carried the game because the story certainly didn't. The characters in the demo of Automata weren't at all interesting because they're androids. Automata's story comes from a stage-play re-enacting a story told by the album notes of a concept album performed by an idol group called YoRHa. Yeah... I don't have really high hopes for Automata at all as the whole "fool me once" saying goes.
That's kinda the thing, it tells the story of androids awakening their humanity. So yeah of course they start pretty dry and almost robotic, with a machine.-like demeanor and focus.

That's why it's so interesting when they change. That contrast makes it all that much more impactful. The game basically entails an inhuman amount of humanity due to the way in which the characters awaken to it. One that can only really be achieved by androids and is all that much more pure for that.
 

meiam

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I don't think that's quite right to be honest.

If you see gaming as a very casual hobby in the same way that, say, watching films or going to the gym, are, then yeah, most gamers are 'normal' people. And yet no other hobby I've ever engaged in,* casual or 'serious' (lets say woodwork, because it's a specific hobby that requires a lot of time and investment), has ever shown itself to have the same level of toxic shittiness to it that gaming has.

Football fans are the same -- probably mostly okay, but their image is completely trashed by how vile a not insignificant number of them are (online especially).

*I've never played Warhammer, which I understand is also awful.
Every hobby is like that. Heck I'd go so far as saying gamer is one of the nicest community, sure there's a few death threat here and there, but look up almost any other hobby and you'll find actual death. How many musician got murdered by "fan"? Look at the shit that happened in movie business (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Murdered_actresses). Pretty much all sports have had deadly riots. Let's not even talk about religion where people literally organized war. It's just human that once something get big enough you're guarantee to have a few people with mental illness that get into it (and I don't mean mental illness as an insults, I mean it quite literally, they're out there and will naturally find hobby).
 

Dreiko

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I am never comfortable when people attribute the absolute dickery of many Gamers to mental health issues. Most of the people I meet with mental health issues are much too nice to be affiliated with True Gamers.
Aren't most people nice in real life?

I'm pretty sure most people who are assholes online are nice in real life. They are only assholes online where they can get away with doing things they don't get to do in real life, it's like an outlet for them.


Also, it's more to do with things like twitter or other social media and less with it being gaming-related. You get a ton of random communities have assholes in them in those sites, not just the gaming community.
 

Baffle

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Every hobby is like that. Heck I'd go so far as saying gamer is one of the nicest community, sure there's a few death threat here and there, but look up almost any other hobby and you'll find actual death. How many musician got murdered by "fan"? Look at the shit that happened in movie business (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dahlia). Pretty much all sports have had deadly riots. Let's not even talk about religion where people literally organized war. It's just human that once something get big enough you're guarantee to have a few people with mental illness that get into it (and I don't mean mental illness as an insults, I mean it quite literally, they're out there and will naturally find hobby).
I disagree. I'm not active in many online communities any more, but in my time I've been engaged in crafts, 3D modelling, brewing and climbing communities, and they are all, by and large, supportive of other members and pleasant to deal with (there is a disturbing level of racism in climbing and walking communities that I didn't notice at first -- don't know why it's there, but it is). Gaming just isn't like that.

Edit: I don't think it always was though. When I was a kid and into my teens and it was a fun community to be part of.
 

CriticalGaming

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No, it's pretty much the same as the fan culture in sports, particularly soccer. People invest too much time and brain power into it, and then get super fucking apeshit pissed if someone else dares touch, criticize, or change it. These aren't just bully victims and socially unskilled individuals.
I don't know the first thing about sports so I couldn't tell ya.

Maybe people just fucking suck.
 

Satinavian

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I don't think that's quite right to be honest.

If you see gaming as a very casual hobby in the same way that, say, watching films or going to the gym, are, then yeah, most gamers are 'normal' people. And yet no other hobby I've ever engaged in,* casual or 'serious' (lets say woodwork, because it's a specific hobby that requires a lot of time and investment), has ever shown itself to have the same level of toxic shittiness to it that gaming has.

Football fans are the same -- probably mostly okay, but their image is completely trashed by how vile a not insignificant number of them are (online especially).

*I've never played Warhammer, which I understand is also awful.
There is no one gaming community, there are hundreds, maybe thousands. "Gamer" is pretty much as precise as "person interested in sports", which would coincidantly both include climbers and soccer hooligans. And to call gamers a toxic community is probably as warranted as calling those general sports people toxic.


If you nail it down to specific games or a specific forum or other place of exchange, it starts to make sense to talk about how this specific community is. But for "Gamers" it certainly does not.
 

Casual Shinji

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Maybe people just fucking suck.
That too.

But certain things just bring it out more than others. And maybe things like sports and gaming/comics/other geek stuff do because it deals with (fictional) personalities and idols, which whips up peoples' loyalty to a ridiculous degree.
 

Baffle

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There is no one gaming community, there are hundreds, maybe thousands. "Gamer" is pretty much as precise as "person interested in sports", which would coincidantly both include climbers and soccer hooligans. And to call gamers a toxic community is probably as warranted as calling those general sports people toxic.


If you nail it down to specific games or a specific forum or other place of exchange, it starts to make sense to talk about how this specific community is. But for "Gamers" it certainly does not.
I disagree that I need to narrow it down at all, but I would say that most people who self-identify as gamers are more likely to be dicks. Certainly most people I know who play games would avoid labelling themselves as gamers because of how toxic the label is. It's not one I'd associate with myself.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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When there's this much hate going around within this community (not just regarding this topic) it's safe to say it's not just a few bad apples. There's something within geek and gamer culture that's just fucking vile.
It’s not dissimilar to the way sports fanatics act, or any fanatics for that matter. A certain significant portion of the human race in general is pretty much shit.
 

Specter Von Baren

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I think that vileness boils down to the kind of people that gaming tends to attract. I would imagine that gaming is a solace for a lot of people that were bullied and picked on a lot growing up, to various degrees. As a result people retreat into gaming as an escape from social interaction, I know I did this as a kid well before there was the internet. However this causes poor social skills to develop because people aren't relating to people in the real world.

Now we have the internet and it has provided a way for socially stunted people to speak with the world, but that doesn't mean they have the skill set to do so in rational manners. Which is why this particular subculture has so many bad apples.
It's really got nothing to do with that. I'm not amazingly well read but I've read enough history books written about and by people interacting with others from all walks of life to know that terrible people always exist. Mass communication has just given more opportunities for those people to exert their influence and for others to see them.
 

Gethsemani

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I'm pretty sure most people who are assholes online are nice in real life. They are only assholes online where they can get away with doing things they don't get to do in real life, it's like an outlet for them.
I know for a fact that they aren't. Growing up a gaming girl/woman in the 00's and early-10's was a great way to experience boys/men who simply could not wrap their head around the idea that a woman might be a hardcore gamer. Gaming culture has, for whatever reason, attracted a kind of men that are deeply misogynistic, easily slighted and have massive entitlement issues. These people are assholes in real life too, the kind of assholes that will grope a woman, get mad when she doesn't "take the compliment" and then demand that she, in great detail, explains how to get the Red Armor in Link's Awakening or she's a Fake Gamer Girl and thus not worthy of their time.

Gaming, roleplaying and miniature games have traditionally drawn this kind of utter scum into their ranks. Roleplaying and miniature games have worked hard to either purge them or ensure that they stick to their little shitty cliques and don't bother decent folk looking for a good time. Gaming? In gaming there are broad circles that actively embrace these assholes and encourage them.
 

Zykon TheLich

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Watched the Spiffing Brit stream playing the pre release review copy, did a full playthrough skipping most of the dialogue. Yeah, bugs and crashes but overall what I saw made me want to play the game (I only watched the start, didn't want it spolied).
 

CriticalGaming

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Watched the Spiffing Brit stream playing the pre release review copy, did a full playthrough skipping most of the dialogue. Yeah, bugs and crashes but overall what I saw made me want to play the game (I only watched the start, didn't want it spolied).
I have it preloaded on my machine and will start my playthrough at 7pm tonight. I'm optimistic still.
 

Gordon_4

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I may make Cyberpunk my Christmas present to myself. Though since I run but a humble GTX1080 :p it may not be quite up to the standards of the glorious pc gaming master race but I’ll muddle through I’m sure.