Cyberpunk 2077 Review thread - Umm....

Gordon_4

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Wow some of those criticisms seem really petty.

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The majority of characters are cisgender and heterosexual. This is a criticism because...? The majority of people are cisgender and heterosexual. I'm not sure what they really expected?

This isn't a game about being LGBT. I don't think the option to be LGBT or having lots of LGBT characters was ever marketed as a major feature of the game.



That one is a bit disappointing though, and really wouldn't have taken very much work to allow any voice to be used with any gender. In a game that allows supposedly vast customization options it seems like something that was more likely overlooked rather than something that was specifically made that way to get any kind of political or social point across though. I suspect this could (and probably will )be changed with a relatively minor patch sometime down the road.
Also what does it mean to be LGBT in a setting where it’s possible to be almost wholly a machine? I direct you all to watch more Ghost in the Shell :p
 

Dreiko

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So the preload is up on psn. At a nice ole 102 gigs. Had to delete some stuff to get it to fit in XD.

The game unlocks on midnight tomorrow (USA EST).

Also what does it mean to be LGBT in a setting where it’s possible to be almost wholly a machine? I direct you all to watch more Ghost in the Shell :p
Yeah that's kinda the thing, now people have the tech to be anything so there's no longer any need for the people who are trans to band together, they just become what they feel like being and are treated as cis from the get.
 

Houseman

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Also what does it mean to be LGBT in a setting where it’s possible to be almost wholly a machine? I direct you all to watch more Ghost in the Shell :p
In a world where everybody is special, nobody is.
So it seems like certain people are upset because they're treated just like everyone else, and not paid special attention...
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Wow some of those criticisms seem really petty.

Like



The majority of characters are cisgender and heterosexual. This is a criticism because...? The majority of people are cisgender and heterosexual. I'm not sure what they really expected?

This isn't a game about being LGBT. I don't think the option to be LGBT or having lots of LGBT characters was ever marketed as a major feature of the game.
They want the game to cater to them specifically. We're in an industry where certain people yelling got them what they wanted so far. So yeh they wanted Cyberpunk 2077 to be Cyberpunk a gay cyberpunk game for gay people or whatever (Note: before I'm accused of anything that name is based on the real game My ex-boyfriend the Space Tyrant a Gay adventure game yes that is it's real full title.) I'm fine with people making products for different markets the issue seems to be the refusal to accept the market size for certain products. As much as I respect what Queer as Folk did as a show I have no interest in seeing it personally and it's very much for a specific demographic. As is the seeming approach is to go after AAA developers to give them the game they seem to want with AAA budgets. Because apparently Tell Me Why isn't getting attention and so they're not interested it or something.

Hell fun fact the Indie game Aerannis is an indie cyberpunk stealth game with Metroid-Vania elements where you play an LGBTQ character (saying much more would spoil a key plot point) and you live in a city where 100% of the citizens are lesbians. it's $1 on Steam and actually I found it really fun. But no it's Cyberpunk 2077 in trouble because CDPR aren't Burger King and won't let them "Have it your way".


That one is a bit disappointing though, and really wouldn't have taken very much work to allow any voice to be used with any gender. In a game that allows supposedly vast customization options it seems like something that was more likely overlooked rather than something that was specifically made that way to get any kind of political or social point across though. I suspect this could (and probably will )be changed with a relatively minor patch sometime down the road.
I dunno it depends on the amount of conversations in the game. The normal trick would be have characters use pronouns almost never and refer to the PC as "My friend over her" or "This asshole over here" or something. Hell it might still be possible for some-one to mod it or something and apply the female voice selection stuff to the male voice selection and vice versa assuming it's not hugely tied into the games systems.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Also what does it mean to be LGBT in a setting where it’s possible to be almost wholly a machine? I direct you all to watch more Ghost in the Shell :p
I have the 2 anime films to watch at some point (yes I saw the live action one first that convinced me to buy them).
On the downside I apparently have the blue remaster one while people online seem to say the Green original version is a better watch but still.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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So the preload is up on psn. At a nice ole 102 gigs. Had to delete some stuff to get it to fit in XD.
102 gigs........... holy smeg that's a big one. Guess I'm deleting Warframe again for a while and a few other things when I get round to playing it.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Also what does it mean to be LGBT in a setting where it’s possible to be almost wholly a machine? I direct you all to watch more Ghost in the Shell :p
I feel like everybody's ignoring the possibility of gay robots and that's sad.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Oh then you definitely should get back to that haha. I'll not spoil anything but Nier has the best story of the generation hands down.
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If anything the problem is that it's just waltzing in as if it's still 1988 and the last thirty odd years of post-cyberpunk didn't happen.
Considering post-cyberpunk is just aesthetics lacking any real substance, par on fucking course.
 

Gethsemani

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Wow some of those criticisms seem really petty.

The majority of characters are cisgender and heterosexual. This is a criticism because...? The majority of people are cisgender and heterosexual. I'm not sure what they really expected?

This isn't a game about being LGBT. I don't think the option to be LGBT or having lots of LGBT characters was ever marketed as a major feature of the game.
Not a major feature, but CDPR definitely did a few rounds talking up how CP2077 would be a post-gender world and that it would show in both the PC and the NPCs you interacted with or saw on the streets. Personally I never really bought into it, it was only talked about in the aftermath of the "Did you assume my gender?"-tweet and the following discussion about CDPRs poor track record with inclusivity and seemed like a half-hearted attempt at showing how progressive they really were.

But yeah, if you've been promised inclusivity and get your ordinary token lesbian character in one sidequest in a 100+ hour game (I don't know actual ratios), I can see how you might feel a bit fooled.
 
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Dreiko

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That was also the claim of the 1st Nier, which had an average-at-best story.
The first one was great too but automata took it a step further with the complex narrative and twist upon twist that never stops even when you think you've already seen everything. You're convinced there's nothing the game could throw at you that could surprise you any more but then it blows past that.
 

Gordon_4

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I have the 2 anime films to watch at some point (yes I saw the live action one first that convinced me to buy them).
On the downside I apparently have the blue remaster one while people online seem to say the Green original version is a better watch but still.
If you can, grab the blu rays of Stand Alone Complex. It was a 2 season anime set in Ghost in the Shell but was more of a police procedural/espionage thriller. So, think a cyberpunk mashup of The Bill and Spooks and you're sort of there.

I feel like everybody's ignoring the possibility of gay robots and that's sad.
Okay that’s fair, but the trans identity as I understand it exists because one is changing the existing body to better suit the mind and soul. So what do you do with that identity when transitioning either way is almost literally like transferring an SSD from one PC chassis to another? Cyberpunk may not be doing the full body replacement racket like Ghost in the Shell, but it’s still an interesting question.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Okay that’s fair, but the trans identity as I understand it exists because one is changing the existing body to better suit the mind and soul. So what do you do with that identity when transitioning either way is almost literally like transferring an SSD from one PC chassis to another? Cyberpunk may not be doing the full body replacement racket like Ghost in the Shell, but it’s still an interesting question.
Cost, mostly. Plus the in-setting version of cyber-phobes.

Like, it gets glossed over in a *lot* of media/games, etc, but the relevant cyber-ware and attendant therapy *cost*. Even in GitS, full conversions are rare, hilariously expensive, and tend to be NDA'd out the ass. Like the Major says, their bodies and memories aren't theirs. And she's top-secret elite government black-ops. Joe Wageslave and Cindy Ganger aren't anywhere *near* that tax bracket. Any cyber they end up with comes with (successful) crime or is of the "we removed your need to eat so that you can convert time units to code lines more efficiently, no that doesn't come with a pay raise and isn't optional" (outside of a blunt force game balance tool, that's what the humanity stat is supposed to represent, not uncoerced wanted upgrades)

Being trans in Cyberpunk is like being trans now, just faster and with a slightly better chance of "passing"
 

Gordon_4

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Cost, mostly. Plus the in-setting version of cyber-phobes.

Like, it gets glossed over in a *lot* of media/games, etc, but the relevant cyber-ware and attendant therapy *cost*. Even in GitS, full conversions are rare, hilariously expensive, and tend to be NDA'd out the ass. Like the Major says, their bodies and memories aren't theirs. And she's top-secret elite government black-ops. Joe Wageslave and Cindy Ganger aren't anywhere *near* that tax bracket. Any cyber they end up with comes with (successful) crime or is of the "we removed your need to eat so that you can convert time units to code lines more efficiently, no that doesn't come with a pay raise and isn't optional" (outside of a blunt force game balance tool, that's what the humanity stat is supposed to represent, not uncoerced wanted upgrades)

Being trans in Cyberpunk is like being trans now, just faster and with a slightly better chance of "passing"
Of course a cyber body of the Major’s quality and capability would be hilariously expensive; look at the punishment it’s meant to take and dish out. To say nothing for the top of the line cryptographic telecommunication equipment and software she must absolutely be running; Motoko is like a human main battle tank.

But Joe Sixpack and Wendy Wrenchbender don’t need a main battle tank. They need a Ford Falcon or a Holden Commodore. For the technology to become as widespread as it is, it can’t be prohibitively expensive. Granted cyberpunk is the sort of setting where you can be paying $100 for a bag of apples but the point stands. And look at Alita: fucking Hugo had a body put together for only his severed head out of shit Dr. Ido had laying around his workshop.
 

Gethsemani

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Cost, mostly. Plus the in-setting version of cyber-phobes.

Like, it gets glossed over in a *lot* of media/games, etc, but the relevant cyber-ware and attendant therapy *cost*.
I actually liked that a lot about Human Revolution, that one of the central themes of the game is how cyberware costs, how it requires constant medical treatment not to be rejected by the body and how people are still bigots that will despise you because you've got a cyber limb, no matter the reason. It made DE: HR feel very grounded and was one of the first times I saw Cyberpunk really dig into that aspect. GitS has done it too, as has Shadowrun, but not with the in-depth look that HR did.
 

09philj

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Considering post-cyberpunk is just aesthetics lacking any real substance, par on fucking course.
Not really. Snow Crash, Ghost in the Shell, Transmetropolitan, and Transistor are all post-cyberpunk, and even Deus Ex is more of a fringe case.
 
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Gordon_4

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I actually liked that a lot about Human Revolution, that one of the central themes of the game is how cyberware costs, how it requires constant medical treatment not to be rejected by the body and how people are still bigots that will despise you because you've got a cyber limb, no matter the reason. It made DE: HR feel very grounded and was one of the first times I saw Cyberpunk really dig into that aspect. GitS has done it too, as has Shadowrun, but not with the in-depth look that HR did.
But Human Revolution also had relatively low cost cyber parts available, that was basically Tai Yong Medical's method for gaining ground. They made cheaper (and worse quality admittedly) parts that could be acquired at a reasonable cost. Hell there's an entry in the many ebooks or news articles about how thirty years ago, kids wanted bikes for their birthday. Now they wanted a new arm/leg/eyes etc.
 

Gethsemani

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But Human Revolution also had relatively low cost cyber parts available, that was basically Tai Yong Medical's method for gaining ground. They made cheaper (and worse quality admittedly) parts that could be acquired at a reasonable cost. Hell there's an entry in the many ebooks or news articles about how thirty years ago, kids wanted bikes for their birthday. Now they wanted a new arm/leg/eyes etc.
I know, and that neatly tied into how Neuropozyne was worth its weight in gold and how anyone who could secure access to it for poorer people could exploit them, as seen in the side quest in the Brothel in China for example.