Cyberpunk 2077 Review thread - Umm....

Neuromancer

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Snow Crash,
Snow Crash is a very good novel, I agree. Stephenson's work in general is intelligent and enjoyable.

Ghost in the Shell,
I can see the argument for calling SAO post-cyberpunk, as the world is somewhat functional and the punk elements are largely in the background, but it is still a setting with extreme social division, bottomless government corruption and totalitarian media manipulation. Well and truly cynical. I'll compromise and say that it's somewhere in-between.

Transmetropolitan,
What are you on about? Society is well and truly made dysfunctional by extreme technological advance. Extreme mass media caricatures are played straight. The government is a bottomless pit of moral malaise that will actively kill people trying to reform things in broad daylight because they know they can get away with it. Every single "I hate it here" issue shows aspects of how the technological singularity, despite making material conditions technically easier, has left people vastly more alienated. The protagonist is a rebellious counter-culture journalist, for Christ's sake. Transmetropolitan has all the elements of traditional cyberpunk with a bit of cynical futurism and a lot of humour.

Transistor
What did I say, all aesthetics.

even Deus Ex is more of a fringe case.
Okay, I can get GitS, but are you sure you aren't spraying "post" in the examples of cyberpunk you like?
 

Baffle

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Not really. Snow Crash, Ghost in the Shell, Transmetropolitan, and Transistor are all post-cyberpunk, and even Deus Ex is more of a fringe case.
Ah, Snow Crash is great, and one of Stephenson's more accessible books. I did read Cryptonomicon, but by the time I'd got to the end my arm muscles were much bigger. And not because it's sexy (it isn't).
 

Dwarvenhobble

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One film I'd suggest as we're on about film a bit here. (But good luck getting it)

The italian Sci-FiV Nirvana part of the story revolves around a video game creator trying to fight a corporation to erase his creation.
 

09philj

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What are you on about? Society is well and truly made dysfunctional by extreme technological advance. Extreme mass media caricatures are played straight. The government is a bottomless pit of moral malaise that will actively kill people trying to reform things in broad daylight because they know they can get away with it. Every single "I hate it here" issue shows aspects of how the technological singularity, despite making material conditions technically easier, has left people vastly more alienated. The protagonist is a rebellious counter-culture journalist, for Christ's sake. Transmetropolitan has all the elements of traditional cyberpunk with a bit of cynical futurism and a lot of humour.
In cyberpunk, technology alienates people. In Transmetropolitan, technology liberates people from the alienation caused by other people. Also the protagonist takes on the system and kind of succeeds.
What did I say, all aesthetics.
Transistor's window onto life in Cloudbank prior to the onset of the Process is limited, but there's still a fair amount of description of it as this ultra high tech post scarcity direct democracy where the characteristics of the city itself constantly shift in line with popular opinion. Or it might be in something like the Matrix, depending on your interpretation.
Okay, I can get GitS, but are you sure you aren't spraying "post" in the examples of cyberpunk you like?
Deus Ex's divergence from orthodox cyberpunk is thematic. The protagonists are functional members of society who don't engage in nihilism and successfully affect change to the system, although said change is invariably of ambiguous or no benefit, hence why it's a fringe case.
 
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Satinavian

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I can see the argument for calling SAO post-cyberpunk, as the world is somewhat functional and the punk elements are largely in the background, but it is still a setting with extreme social division, bottomless government corruption and totalitarian media manipulation. Well and truly cynical. I'll compromise and say that it's somewhere in-between.
It is basically the posterchild for Post-Cyberpunk. A lot of truly horrible stuff goes on and the situation of the world is pretty bad with the recent wars, lack of democracy basically everywhere, corporations and gouvernment organisations trampling rights and no one caring etc. But the protagonists are generally trying to work with the system, they don't reject it at all, even if they dislike this or that. And technology has its good sides as well. Most regular people just live their daily life which is in some aspects better, in others worse, but overall just a tad different.

Okay, I can get GitS, but are you sure you aren't spraying "post" in the examples of cyberpunk you like?
DEUS EX is a whole series. It is a bit difficult to classify. But i don't see much Punk there either, nor is the setting nearly as bleak as in neuromancer. It has this "whole secret societies running the world" in some installments which fits neither, but overall i understand it as Post-Cyberpunk as well.

Cyberpunk need pure, hopeless dystopia and (fruitless) rebellion against the system(which is evil) by the protagonist. And Punks are heavily encouraged.




I agree with Transistor though. Not that i would have called that Post-Cyberpunk.
 

09philj

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I said I wanted end user license agreements written in plain English, PLAIN English!
 

Gordon_4

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I know, and that neatly tied into how Neuropozyne was worth its weight in gold and how anyone who could secure access to it for poorer people could exploit them, as seen in the side quest in the Brothel in China for example.
Also true. I'm not arguing that Deus Ex wasn't amazing. It is. I'm just pointing out that for the Cyberpunk setting to work - truly work - as it seems to in fiction, these mods need to be affordable in some way. I mean fucking hell we can collect a few thousand bread tabs and melt that shit down and 3D print it into functional parts for these sorts of things now. In a hypothetical future state, I'd expect more efficient means of production.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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The first one was great too but automata took it a step further with the complex narrative and twist upon twist that never stops even when you think you've already seen everything. You're convinced there's nothing the game could throw at you that could surprise you any more but then it blows past that.
The 1st one at least had entertaining characters that carried the game because the story certainly didn't. The characters in the demo of Automata weren't at all interesting because they're androids. Automata's story comes from a stage-play re-enacting a story told by the album notes of a concept album performed by an idol group called YoRHa. Yeah... I don't have really high hopes for Automata at all as the whole "fool me once" saying goes.
 

Satinavian

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The 1st one at least had entertaining characters that carried the game because the story certainly didn't. The characters in the demo of Automata weren't at all interesting because they're androids. Automata's story comes from a stage-play re-enacting a story told by the album notes of a concept album performed by an idol group called YoRHa. Yeah... I don't have really high hopes for Automata at all as the whole "fool me once" saying goes.
I found it fun.

Not particularly deep as some people claim, but fun. The characters are passable though i find 9Ss eventual descent into nihilism not a good development.
 
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Hades

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So a reviewer got an epileptic attack playing the game and then deranged fanboys started to......torture him into trying to provoke another epileptic attack?

What the hell, guys!
 

Baffle

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So a reviewer got an epileptic attack playing the game and then deranged fanboys started to......torture him into trying to provoke another epileptic attack?

What the hell, guys!
Yeah, gamers are, broadly, quite awful.
 
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BrawlMan

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So a reviewer got an epileptic attack playing the game and then deranged fanboys started to......torture him into trying to provoke another epileptic attack?

What the hell, guys!
People like that would do anything to make their favorite product look good, perfect, or not bad or excuse any flaws. I admit that this is a new level of what the fuck! Those Fanboys must really not get much action in their lives.
 

happyninja42

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People like that would do anything to make their favorite product look good, perfect, or not bad or excuse any flaws. I admit that this is a new level of what the fuck! Those Fanboys must really not get much action in their lives.
Given they are most likely young males, with emotion/anger issues and an unrefined since of self identity, no they probably aren't getting much action.
 
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meiam

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Yeah, gamers are, broadly, quite awful.
Other way around, they're quite broadly fine people but there's a tiny miniscule (possibly 1 guy) who are asshole (and probably have serious mental health issues that are untreated).
 

Satinavian

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Yeah, gamers are, broadly, quite awful.
Gaming is mainstream nowadays. Gamers are utterly average people. Not better, not worse.

It is more worthwile to ask if nongamers below the age of 45 are weirdos or not ?
 

Gethsemani

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Other way around, they're quite broadly fine people but there's a tiny miniscule (possibly 1 guy) who are asshole (and probably have serious mental health issues that are untreated).
I am never comfortable when people attribute the absolute dickery of many Gamers to mental health issues. Most of the people I meet with mental health issues are much too nice to be affiliated with True Gamers.