Dalisclock plays through the Dragon Age Trilogy and makes a lot of running commentary along the way. Spoilers abound.

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,341
3,527
118
Australia
Yeah, I kind of got the idea of what's going on with Alister and might have kinda sort of engaged in some meta gaming on that because I told him that his terrible sister was terrible and he needed to grow some balls. I know I'm supposed to be playing this blind but it's also a 15 year old game and I'm probably not gonna play it again for at least a few years. Especially considering I've got four more DLC, DA2 and Inquisition after this, and supposedly Inquisition is fucking LONG. Besides, it's either Alister on the throne or.....I don't fucking know. Sure as shit not Loghain as he's shown it's completely unfit to rule so get your ass in that fucking chair, Alister!

I finished Wynne's personal quest once I learned how to trigger it and that was kinda nice. Otherwise I spent a bit of time finishing up some of the board quests, selling off shit I know I'm never gonna use, getting a big pile of gold and such. I also hung around the Dalish Camp a bit buying tons of elfroot to dump in the collection box for more XP because I'm kinda done with doing side quests that don't seem to matter to anything. And yeah, the elfroot method is cheap and easy but it's also really boring, since you apparently only put so many in at a time so you have to keep hitting the "Deposit Elfroot" dialogue option until you run out. But I got an extra level for everyone out of it and you know what, that's fine. All my dudes are at level 19 or 20 and most of the fights haven't been particularly bad, barring the few that are because there's like 3 blood mages with their bois trying to stomp you or something.

So tonight I'm gonna go ahead and call the Landsmeet, which hopefully should be interesting.
Inquisition isn’t actually that long in and of itself, what it is, is very reluctant to hurry you along the critical path. Or indeed make that hugely clear. Core story, including the various personal quests is probably about 24 hours, 30 of you have Tresspasser.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dalisclock

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
9,994
5,371
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Inquisition isn’t actually that long in and of itself, what it is, is very reluctant to hurry you along the critical path. Or indeed make that hugely clear. Core story, including the various personal quests is probably about 24 hours, 30 of you have Tresspasser.
That's a hell of a lot different then the 90+ hour game I'd heard it was. I'd heard that the first thing you need to do is "Get the fuck out of the Hinterlands" but even then I expected it was still gonna be a long ass game with lots of side...stuff. I was planning to check out how to play the game in a way to see the good stuff regardless when I got there so i don't get bogged own
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,341
3,527
118
Australia
That's a hell of a lot different then the 90+ hour game I'd heard it was. I'd heard that the first thing you need to do is "Get the fuck out of the Hinterlands" but even then I expected it was still gonna be a long ass game with lots of side...stuff.
90 hours maybe if you do every single little thing on every map. And yes, the Hinterlands only has three plot critical things in it to start Mother Giselle, Horse Master Dennitt and Blackwall. Most everything else is fairly optional but you gotta get loot and exp somehow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dalisclock

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,012
776
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
Except this time when I tried to leave instead of being betrayed there were a bunch of guards and a lady knight waiting for me and my crew, who at least let everyone else go because I chose to surrender. Apparently it's possible to win that fight but it's quite difficult to do so.
Even if you did have the ability to win the fight, I wouldn't have advised it. Your companions staging a jailbreak contains some of the funnier exchanges in the game. Eg: Choosing Zevran and Shale results in the former acting like an impatient delivery boy who was assured he would get his fee on delivery and will absolutely not leave until he gets paid! Or if you decide to bring your Mabari and let it handle the guards' skepticism...he decides to relieve himself on one of the guards, much to the other's amusement. Bring in Zevran with Oghren? Zevran claims they are the twin circus performers, and is offended that the guards don't see the family resemblance.

However, it looks like the game isn't going to allow me to create a people's republic of freedom so I went with option 3 instead. Basically, Alister doesn't exactly want to be king but there aren't a lot of other choices and he has to be better then Loghain. Anora probably has the chops to rule but I don't trust her and the elven city origin shows she doesn't give a flying fuck about the alienages. Maybe Alister and Anora can balance each other out if I can get them both there. So yeah, played gopher between the two for a bit and convinced them both to consent to a political marriage so at least that's probably settled.
Sound logic. There's also a practical element to it in that neither has an especially strong claim individually (the king's widow and the king's previously unknown bastard half-brother), and the relation is iffy enough that it's not hard to imagine either being championed as the 'true heir' of sorts. By marrying, they sidestep the questions of legitimacy by consolidating their claims into a joint venture.

That's a hell of a lot different then the 90+ hour game I'd heard it was. I'd heard that the first thing you need to do is "Get the fuck out of the Hinterlands" but even then I expected it was still gonna be a long ass game with lots of side...stuff. I was planning to check out how to play the game in a way to see the good stuff regardless when I got there so i don't get bogged own
You are told to "get the fuck out of the Hinterlands" because the areas are filled with padding, and the Hinterlands are probably the slowest and most boring area in the game.
 
Last edited:

thebobmaster

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
1,159
1,151
118
Country
United States
I actually really like Tim Curry as Arl Howe. He doesn't play the role as over-the-top as he usually does, so it makes Howe seem that much more villainous to me. Love the little speech he gives if you are playing as a Human Noble and you point out that everything he did led you to be right where you are.

" There it is, right there. That damned look in the eye that marked every Cousland success that held me back. It seems you have made something of yourself after all. Your father would be proud. I, on the other hand, want you dead more than ever... "
 

thebobmaster

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
1,159
1,151
118
Country
United States
You are told to "get the fuck out of the Hinterlands" because the areas are filled with padding, and the Hinterlands are probably the slowest and most boring area in the game.
That, and the Hinterlands have areas of various difficulty, so the game is actively designed for you to do part of the Hinterlands, leave, do some other stuff, come back to the Hinterlands when you are stronger, do another part, repeat. It's basically more of a central hub type area.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,341
3,527
118
Australia
You are told to "get the fuck out of the Hinterlands" because the areas are filled with padding, and the Hinterlands are probably the slowest and most boring area in the game.
I feel that padding serves a purpose since most of it is establishing supply lines, getting rid of demons, rogue mages or templars, meting out some street justice and recruiting able bodied people and organisations to the Inquisition. All the sorts of thing that genuinely would give the people the impression that the Inquisition are the adults in the room.
 

meiam

Elite Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,409
876
118
imo the hinterlands is by far the best section of inquisition, it's a large open area while most other area are much smaller and more linear. It's one of the few area where the events happening there are actually related to the main plot. And its the only area that feel alive with a few villages area and the various enemy you encounter interacting with each others. Every other area is pretty lifeless and feel like a side quest area.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
9,994
5,371
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Even if you did have the ability to win the fight, I wouldn't have advised it. Your companions staging a jailbreak contains some of the funnier exchanges in the game. Eg: Choosing Zevran and Shale results in the former acting like an impatient delivery boy who was assured he would get his fee on delivery and will absolutely not leave until he gets paid! Or if you decide to bring your Mabari and let it handle the guards' skepticism...he decides to relieve himself on one of the guards, much to the other's amusement. Bring in Zevran with Oghren? Zevran claims they are the twin circus performers, and is offended that the guards don't see the family resemblance.
I brought Alister because I'm comfortable with his moveset and morrigan for her murder spells and it was amusing where Alister kept bluffing he was making a delivery and it worked. I kinda wished I'd tried Morrigan's lines but I think I'm gonna youtube some of the reactions because at this point I want to press on to the end.

Sound logic. There's also a practical element to it in that neither has an especially strong claim individually (the king's widow and the king's previously unknown bastard half-brother), and the relation is iffy enough that it's not hard to imagine either being championed as the 'true heir' of sorts. By marrying, they sidestep the questions of legitimacy by consolidating their claims into a joint venture.
That also came to mind. I'm a little hesitant because royal succession politics gets super weird and complicated and vary according to culture if Crusader Kings is remotely accurate. I mean, England could have a ruling queen but France couldn't, but the Royal Family of England was basically imported from Germany in early 1700s through a series of wierd political shenanigans that I'm sure made sense at the time. But considering what's happening in Dragon age is vastly simplified for the sake of not requiring a fucking flow chart to figure out what's going on and also for gameplay, yeah, it's Alistor, Anora or both.

Within that context, as you said, Anora is the current monarch by marriage due to the King being dead, but Alister is the son of Calians father but is also a bastard, which makes him the Half brother of Cailan. Even as a bastard, Alister still has the bloodline and that's important to a monarchis(and absent any forms of Republican government is the only game in town). Both have an okay claim to the throne but together it's pretty much a non-issue. I mean, in real life, numerous wars have been fought over this shit because two sides had claims to a throne which were equally valid/tenuous. Arl Eomen flat out spells out that he technically has a claim but only through marriage which wouldn't be super satisfiing to anyone. And Calian apparently shooting blanks the whole time thus they haven't had any kids to complicate this matter helps. I mean, I'm assuming Cailan is the one who isn't producing heirs because if Anora is the problem here then this is just gonna be a problem again in a decade or so because they're STILL not gonna have any kids. Also because Calian apparently had mistresses and still didn't create any bastards of his own(I'm gonna assume there isn't fantasy birth control at play here).

And yeah, neither of them seem to be super happy about this, but the Queen gets to keep her crown even if she has to share it while Alister could be a better King then Calian and have some purpose in life besides the Wardens and hopefully stabilize the nation.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: thestor

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
9,994
5,371
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
FInished the Alienage last night. The Slave trading plot was interesting though I kind of wish it had been introduced earlier but it happens in the shadow of the landsmeet which is a bit more important in the grand scheme of things. OTOH, cutting down some slavers felt really good so I can't complain too much. Also there's a side quest in the Abandoned Orphanage which has nothing to do with that at all, but i felt compelled to do it both for the experience and also because as a City Elf Warden that's technically my problem because it's in my neighborhood and it would be best to not have a haunted building just sitting there. And it's fine, basically another haunted house with a disturbing number of bodies and bloodstains and angry ghosts for an Orphange that I don't think was really explained but many I missed a note somewhere. Again, it feels like the elf stuff gets kinda shafted in this game compared to the dwarves, mages or anyone else for that matter, which considering the elves as the oppressed minority feels a bit sad. I want to think they had plans to expand upon this stuff and just ran out of time to do so.

I haven't actually done the landsmeet proper yet but that's the next thing. I'm a little disappointed so far because while some of the nobles are in the tavern off the market, interacting with them is basically just exploring during the dungeon part of the Queen Rescue and the captured quests and freeing the prisoners and then telling the nobles about it. That's it. They give you support and I get it but I was kinda hoping you could chat with them and try to convince them either through words or actions to take your side. Maybe have different nobles have differering sidequests that conflict where you can get one guy to support you at risk of pissing off another and so on. Have some fun intrigue, not unlike the Dwarf stuff in Orzammar. Maybe they did plan to do something like that and ran out of time to implement.

Also, it's wierd that there's certain sidequests you can pick up early in the game, such as conscripting for the blackstone irregulars but you can only finish it right before the end because one of the dude is in the alienage which you can't enter until just prior to the end, or one guy who is stuck in a dungeon you can't access till near the end.

I get the feeling I'm getting near the end. I think it's just the Landsmeet and after that, once Ferelden is united, time to gather all my forces to fight the darkspawn. So unless the final battle is really long, I might finish tonight.
 

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
9,994
5,371
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Its done. Finished the Landsmeet last night and it was honestly pretty easy. I'd apparently impressed them enough pretty much all of them(except 1 noble out of 100 who wasn't impressed). I had to redo it though because Loghain killed me in the duel, which allowed me to expose Loghain's crimes at the Alienage and it didn't change anything. Honestly, i thought I'd have more time to dunk on him but the nobles decided they'd been impressed enough and just all voted for me. I think it helped that Loghain dragged his daughter the queen into it and she promptly came out and denounced him because of the deal I'd made with her. Apparently the Queen is so popular amongst the people that her approval is basically the win right there.

Now comes the fun part. After thinking about it, I spared Loghain and inducted him into the Wardens, mostly because I wanted to keep the Queen's support, though I was convinced for a moment I'd fucked up and Alistair was gonna do something really fucking stupid in front of everyone when he lost his shit. But no, he went through with the marriage and left the wardens because he couldn't stand Loghain being in it. I did feel conflicted about it and Loghain does deserve death, but at the same time, I don't want to Alienate the Queen and fuck up this whole political stabilization thing we had going on and giving Loghain the opportunity to atone by fighting on the front lines in the blight feels fitting. Interestingly, he accepted it gracefully and without much complaint. His constant protestations that he over wanting what's best for fereden actually means something considering how willingly he backs it up by putting his ass on the line. That doesn't excuse the shitty things he did but at the same time, the fact he was willing to atone by becoming a Warden speaks volumes as well.

Of course, right after that the game decides to explain how you really Kill the ArchDemon. Basically, that the ArchDemon is a body surfer and if the current form is killed it'll just jump into the nearest Darkspawn(and there's a practically unlimited number of Darkspawn). The way the Wardens deal with this is basically that they have the taint(he he he) the archdemon will go into them instead, thus the Warden will also die so apparently this is a murder-suicide pact and you know what, sure, fine.

And of course, right after that, Morrigan shows up and tells me about a creepy Sex ritual to put the soul of the archdemon in the body of a fetus and....yeah, I told her to fuck off. I've seen enough Horror movies to know that never ends well. Except on Adventure Time(the demon in a baby thing, not the wierd sex ritual) , where somehow it worked out but Adventure Time is wierd so it doesn't count. So she stormed off and didn't join the final battle and....seriously Morrigan, I was hoping to have your walking Bomb spells for the final battle but that's fine. Leliana got your spot.

The next hour was a series of battles through the city to the Archdemon in which only two particularly interesting things happened. THe first was a bit where the action cut away to focus on all the characters I didn't pick to defend the gates of the city from Darkspawn, but I called up some Mages and the battle was strangely anti-climatic because the mages just nuked the shit out of anything that entered the gate and I spent like a good couple minutes just watching them kill everything waiting for something to slip through. The second was running across Sandal, the Special Dwarf from Camp, in Fort Drakon.....alone....surrounded by dozens of Slaughtered Darkspawn. When asked about what happened, all he says is "ENCHANTMENT!" as he does. So note to self: NEVER PISS OFF SANDAL. Or maybe I should have picked sandal to fight the Archdemon one on one. Though that might not be fair to the archdemon.

So I was starting to get worried because despite getting Anora to Marry Alistair, I only saw Anora after that and while I appreciate her support(especially that speech just prior to the battle of Denerim), until I got to the end where I got to talk to everyone and then I finally see Alister all Decked out and talking about being King. And then the ending slides explain that all turned out for the best. Also I made Shani the Bann of the Elves as my boon so that's nice.

Really, most of my decisions seemed to turn out good in the end. Breaking the Anvil seems to be the exception where the Dwarves apparently tried to fix it and made a golem that went insane ands killed a bunch of people but maybe they shouldn't have been trying to mess with the thing, should they?

Anyway, that was fun and I'm glad to have finally beaten it. I don't have a ton extra to say because I've been blathering about it all along. As mentioned in a previous post, I plan to take a short break to play Return to Monkey Island and then come back to the DLC before moving on to DA2. I'll still be checking in to answer questions and comment in the meanwhile
 
Last edited:

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,012
776
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
And of course, right after that, Morrigan shows up and tells me about a creepy Sex ritual to put the soul of the archdemon in the body of a fetus and....yeah, I told her to fuck off. I've seen enough Horror movies to know that never ends well. Except on Adventure Time(the demon in a baby thing, not the wierd sex ritual) , where somehow it worked out but Adventure Time is wierd so it doesn't count. So she stormed off and didn't join the final battle and....seriously Morrigan, I was hoping to have your walking Bomb spells for the final battle but that's fine. Leliana got your spot.
Funnily enough, Dragon Age goes about as well as Adventure Time. While it's called the Dark Ritual, the functional impact is that the soul of the 'old god' is cleansed and in the passenger seat of the kid's mind. Kid's evidently aware of its presence and speaks a little cryptically, but is evidently no worse for the wear for it.

Obviously the tone works a bit better if you choose her as your love interest, which sees her slowly open up her softer and less cynical side in private, and makes some of the story beats work a little better (eg, Witch Hunt flows a little better if the Warden has that ring that lets them sense Morrigan's location and the sentimental motive to track down their paramour and kid).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dalisclock

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
9,994
5,371
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
Funnily enough, Dragon Age goes about as well as Adventure Time. While it's called the Dark Ritual, the functional impact is that the soul of the 'old god' is cleansed and in the passenger seat of the kid's mind. Kid's evidently aware of its presence and speaks a little cryptically, but is evidently no worse for the wear for it.

Obviously the tone works a bit better if you choose her as your love interest, which sees her slowly open up her softer and less cynical side in private, and makes some of the story beats work a little better (eg, Witch Hunt flows a little better if the Warden has that ring that lets them sense Morrigan's location and the sentimental motive to track down their paramour and kid).
I gained a lot of sympathy for her as the game went on and she stopped bitching every time I did anything good for anyone, especially learning about her life up until that point. However, she still occasionally got on my nerves and springing the old one baby thing on me at the last minute was a bit much.

Also not gonna lie, Claudia Black makes everything better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thestor

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,012
776
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
I gained a lot of sympathy for her as the game went on and she stopped bitching every time I did anything good for anyone, especially learning about her life up until that point. However, she still occasionally got on my nerves and springing the old one baby thing on me at the last minute was a bit much.

Also not gonna lie, Claudia Black makes everything better.
Mmm. I get it. For my part, I saw her as playing up the 'tough guy' angle and I liked challenging her on her beliefs, with the adventure helping to illustrate that the kinder mentality she dismissed as weak was much stronger than she gave it credit for. "You believe in survival of the fittest? Well, let's put that to the test! Being strong does not mean being heartless! Come on, Morrigan! You spent your life learning that you have to look out for number one, so let's see how this ideology holds up when you see what more mutualistic relationships look like!"

...Of course, my Warden also romanced her (as a circle mage, I imagine that he found this witch of the wilds fascinating for a variety of reasons), which meant that while she was publicly cold, she was slowly warming up in private, up to and including her confiding her difficulty in dealing with her newfound affections for him, believing that the anxiety and 'sense of dependency' she'd started to feel when looking at the Warden was a weakness. She all but plead him to say that he didn't love her and was just using her because she felt that she would ultimately have to hurt him (foreshadowing the Dark Ritual and her subsequent disappearance).

So when she sprang the Dark Ritual on me, my own thought process was "ok...I know you aren't as sinister as you pretend, and you're telling me that if we do...what we already do, then nobody has to die? Done."

By the end of the DLC, she finally accepted that they actually did care for each other, and by Inquisition she admits that their little family is actually quite happy, much to her own surprise.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,341
3,527
118
Australia
I gained a lot of sympathy for her as the game went on and she stopped bitching every time I did anything good for anyone, especially learning about her life up until that point. However, she still occasionally got on my nerves and springing the old one baby thing on me at the last minute was a bit much.

Also not gonna lie, Claudia Black makes everything better.
What pisses me off about Morrigan is that she's supposed to come across as the voice of pragmatic reason but instead of seeing the wisdom in the Warden being polite about things she hates (the Chantry, the Circle etc) to get them the things they need with minimal fuss, she stands there and bitches about it.
 

meiam

Elite Member
Dec 9, 2010
2,409
876
118
So the baby demon things is pretty important story wise so I assume they'll just retcon it so that it actually happen no matter what (they like to do that so I don't see why they even bother importing choice, just let the player do whatever but declare a set of decision cannon). Ultimately I think it makes sense because, whats the worse that can happen? The demon kid summon a army of monster from the ground, w/e we deal with that all the time apparently, on the flip side it might let people learn more about the blight in the first place and stop it for good, plus potentially pacify darkspawn.

It's kinda awkward if you're playing female still cause you gotta burst into Alistair room and get him to do Morrigan, real awkward if you're romancing him (was a bit disappointed there wasn't a way to get your PC pregnant and have custody of demon kid afterwards).

Otherwise, iirc If you don't have the demon kid, you can have the other dude kill the demon lord thing and die in the process instead. It's always funny when the game give you the option and the other person act all pissed at you for not willingly killing yourself. Dude I just organized the entire things myself and everything would have been fucked without me. I think I earned staying alive. Anyway since it doesn't matter who give the finishing blow so long as they're warden there should be plenty of other solution, go to the dungeon find all criminal on death row and just find one that survice the initiation and there you go. I'm sure if that was given as an option the game would treat it as evil, but considering an average playtrough of the game results in probably well over 500 human killed by the PC, I think thats petty. Or how about using Loghain?

I did like that at the end of the game you can have all your ally come and help you, but the final fight is so easy it really doesn't matter, I could have easily do it all myself anyway s it makes the whole game feel pontless.
 

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Jun 15, 2011
3,012
776
118
Country
USA
Gender
Male
What pisses me off about Morrigan is that she's supposed to come across as the voice of pragmatic reason but instead of seeing the wisdom in the Warden being polite about things she hates (the Chantry, the Circle etc) to get them the things they need with minimal fuss, she stands there and bitches about it.
Yeah, Bioware's always been pretty bad about that. In Jade Empire, the Closed Fist was supposed to champion tough love to foster independence and self-sufficiency, but at the end of the day it was mostly just being a dick. The Dark Side in KoTOR and SWTOR was similarly 'dickish for dickishness sake' but in fairness, that's been par for the course for how the Dark Side is depicted (and less confusing than granting Dark Side points for learning and reciting the Sith Code as a non-violent means of gaining academy points during your infiltration of Korriban) ever since Vader started killing his subordinates in Empire Strikes Back. Paragon and Renegade in Mass Effect were similarly supposed to be compassionate and ruthless, respectively, but at the end of the day it ended up being diplomatic and knowledgeable vs...mostly just being a dick again, a 'cowboy cop' at best. They tended less to do "good and evil" than "nice and mean".

It's kinda awkward if you're playing female still cause you gotta burst into Alistair room and get him to do Morrigan, real awkward if you're romancing him.
I remember a good fan-comic about that. Don't know where it was originally, but after a quick google search I found it again here. Short version: Morrigan is hesitating about propositioning Alistair about the ritual specifically because he and the Warden are a thing. The Warden is the only person she considers a friend and she knows that while this plan is the best way forward, it's also going to hurt her friend terribly, and that's tearing her up. Really well done for an 8-page fanwork, I think.
 
Last edited:

Dalisclock

Making lemons combustible again
Legacy
Escapist +
Feb 9, 2008
9,994
5,371
118
A Barrel In the Marketplace
Country
Eagleland
Gender
Male
So the baby demon things is pretty important story wise so I assume they'll just retcon it so that it actually happen no matter what (they like to do that so I don't see why they even bother importing choice, just let the player do whatever but declare a set of decision cannon). Ultimately I think it makes sense because, whats the worse that can happen? The demon kid summon a army of monster from the ground, w/e we deal with that all the time apparently, on the flip side it might let people learn more about the blight in the first place and stop it for good, plus potentially pacify darkspawn.

It's kinda awkward if you're playing female still cause you gotta burst into Alistair room and get him to do Morrigan, real awkward if you're romancing him (was a bit disappointed there wasn't a way to get your PC pregnant and have custody of demon kid afterwards).

Otherwise, iirc If you don't have the demon kid, you can have the other dude kill the demon lord thing and die in the process instead. It's always funny when the game give you the option and the other person act all pissed at you for not willingly killing yourself. Dude I just organized the entire things myself and everything would have been fucked without me. I think I earned staying alive. Anyway since it doesn't matter who give the finishing blow so long as they're warden there should be plenty of other solution, go to the dungeon find all criminal on death row and just find one that survice the initiation and there you go. I'm sure if that was given as an option the game would treat it as evil, but considering an average playtrough of the game results in probably well over 500 human killed by the PC, I think thats petty. Or how about using Loghain?

I did like that at the end of the game you can have all your ally come and help you, but the final fight is so easy it really doesn't matter, I could have easily do it all myself anyway s it makes the whole game feel pontless.
Interestingly enough, I had Loghain with me at the final battle and Loghain flat out volunteers to kill the archdemon. I thought was gonna have to argue him into it but no, he flat out says he wants to be the one to take the thing down knowing he will die doing so. Which is one of the things that made me respect the bastard despite all the shitty things he did. Sure, he more or less had no choice of joining the Wardens besides Execution(though he accepts being a Warden without complaint) but he sure as hell didn't have to volunteer for the killing/dying blow. and I let him take it, because that was the only redemption he's earned at this point.

On the same account, playing a female Warden means that Morrigan asks to Loghain to be the god baby daddy and despite not liking the guy, I honestly couldn't see myself bursting into his room and trying to convince him to plow a swamp witch because reasons. Which was another reason I choose to tell her to leave rather then to do the sex ritual. And yeah, it would have been interesting if you could be the one preggers with the demon child because if we're doing magic, why not magic impregnation? And especially since in the Mass Effect game they basically built the Asari around the idea of allows either gender to do the dirty and even have a child with Liara. Yeah, I know there are other reasons but considering how much Liara is pushed into being the canon Waifu in the ME games it's hard not to see her as the Bisexual Romance partner first.

I think RIodan flat out said they don't have enough Archdemon Blood to make a bunch of new Wardens or else they probably would have made the entire party one. Making Mass Wardens wasn't really an option with the time/resources they had.
 
Last edited:

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,341
3,527
118
Australia
So the baby demon things is pretty important story wise so I assume they'll just retcon it so that it actually happen no matter what (they like to do that so I don't see why they even bother importing choice, just let the player do whatever but declare a set of decision cannon). Ultimately I think it makes sense because, whats the worse that can happen? The demon kid summon a army of monster from the ground, w/e we deal with that all the time apparently, on the flip side it might let people learn more about the blight in the first place and stop it for good, plus potentially pacify darkspawn.

It's kinda awkward if you're playing female still cause you gotta burst into Alistair room and get him to do Morrigan, real awkward if you're romancing him (was a bit disappointed there wasn't a way to get your PC pregnant and have custody of demon kid afterwards).

Otherwise, iirc If you don't have the demon kid, you can have the other dude kill the demon lord thing and die in the process instead. It's always funny when the game give you the option and the other person act all pissed at you for not willingly killing yourself. Dude I just organized the entire things myself and everything would have been fucked without me. I think I earned staying alive. Anyway since it doesn't matter who give the finishing blow so long as they're warden there should be plenty of other solution, go to the dungeon find all criminal on death row and just find one that survice the initiation and there you go. I'm sure if that was given as an option the game would treat it as evil, but considering an average playtrough of the game results in probably well over 500 human killed by the PC, I think thats petty. Or how about using Loghain?

I did like that at the end of the game you can have all your ally come and help you, but the final fight is so easy it really doesn't matter, I could have easily do it all myself anyway s it makes the whole game feel pontless.
They don’t actually, if you don’t do the ritual then Morrigan shows up in Inquisition on her own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dalisclock

laggyteabag

Scrolling through forums, instead of playing games
Legacy
Oct 25, 2009
3,155
756
118
UK
Gender
He/Him
The thing that amazes me about Mass Effect and Dragon Age, is that both games are developed by BioWare, and both games are developed in sequence (Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Mass Effect... etc), but Mass Effect gets its morality system so wrong, whereas Dragon Age gets it so right.

In Mass Effect, each choice, each conversation option, carries with it a Paragon or Renegade score ("Good" or "Bad"). The Paragon-leaning choice is at the top of the dialogue wheel, and the Renegade-leaning choice is at the bottom. The problem with this black and white system, is that morally grey choices, will still have to be applied with a Paragon or Renegade score, which feels arbitrary. And, If you are Paragon or Renegade often enough, you will unlock Paragon or Renegade Special Answers, which are always, objectively, the best answer in any scenario. Choosing a different answer will put you at a disadvantage, when a Special Answer is available. It is just very gamey.

Another weird quirk of Mass Effect's morality system, is that (In Mass Effect 1, at least), your companions do not have set opinions on any particular choice that you have to make. You can bring with you any two companions, and when they offer their opinions, one will always give the Paragon perspective, and the other will give the Renegade perspective. This is decided based on your squad-mate's hidden morality score, with Wrex being the most Renegade, and Liara being the most Paragon. So if you were to bring Wrex and Garrus on a mission, Wrex would argue to be Renegade, and Garrus would argue to be Paragon. But if you made the same choice, but instead brought with you Garrus and Liara, Garrus would now argue to be Renegade, and Liara would argue to be Paragon. Again, it is very gamey, as your companion's opinions just shift around each other, instead of having set opinions on different matters.

Dragon Age's approval system is much better. Having a per-companion approval rating is just much more organic, and much more consistent. "Good" characters like Alistair and Wynne will approve of you going out of your way to help people, whereas less "Good" characters like Sten and Morrigan will generally see it as a waste of time, and disapprove. As you play the game, you will just organically gain or lose approval points with your companions, and so you will begin to develop friendships or rivaleries with them.

And to top it off, some characters have specific opinions (and consequences) to certain actions that you may take. If you were to defile the Urn of Sacred Ashes, Leliana will absolutley have something to say about it. She won't suddenly try to advocate for it, just because the game considered another party member to be more "Good" than her. The characters in Dragon Age just feel much more like actual people, than they do in Mass Effect.

Of course you can just cheat the whole system with that gifts DLC, but lets not talk about that.

Im really happy that Mass Effect Andromeda chose to abandon the Paragon and Renegade system - it is just a shame that Mass Effect Andromeda, is, well, Mass Effect Andromeda.
 
Last edited: