Dark Souls 2: Of Missing Monsters and Bustling Bases

[KoudelkaMorgan]

I'm really trying to motivate myself into playing through it again. I made a new character and gave sorcery a go, it was totally boring and I've watched vids on youtube of all the spells in the game and realize that its only going to stay boring.

I made another character to give dual wielding a try, and while double clubs was fun for a few minutes I just don't really care for dual wielding.

Honestly, aside from a handful of weapons and a few pyromancy spells there wasn't much at all by way of methods of combat that I even liked in this game.

So I decided to pop back to my main file, gather some twinkling titanite from the shrine to upgrade the only armor pieces I actually liked and play online to at least try to get the remaining spells I need for the last few trophies.

I mean hidden weapon specifically, as I think every other one eventually gets sold by an npc at higher NG cycles.

So far I haven't seen any bellkeeper action, so I might have to head to NG+

I'm only lv159 with like 3.5 mil soul memory...too high? I might have killed too many things. They deserved it though ._.

The plot in DS2 was barely there, which is to be expected in the series, but sadly the times it IS there it seems to actively detract from my enjoyment. The opening cutscene of DS1 told a better story than the ENTIRE game of DS2.

 

[lukesparow]

So far I haven't seen any bellkeeper action, so I might have to head to NG+

I'm only lv159 with like 3.5 mil soul memory...too high? I might have killed too many things. They deserved it though ._.

Level 159 may be a bit steep. So far I've heard people say they intend to bring the level cap back to at least 150 for PvP.
One thing you don't need to worry about though it sould memory. Apparently it's not a facter once you enter NG+.

 

[Cybylt]

Well, people didn't complain about the fact that you are immortal in Diablo 3 either, so i guess some of us just have a different experience with this kind of stuff. The fact that i know it, makes it a problem, because i will be tempted to exploit it if i get to a particular hard area. Chipping away on the enemies until they vanish, why even bother using items? Just like Diablo 3, where you can just punch your enemies to death, if you are patient, you WILL win.

I just wish i had a choice, a chance to reload or to disable the feature, that's all.

Because that'd be incredibly tedious and boring and going out of your way to play in an unfun way?

Come to think of it, there's a couple covenants built to punish that exact mentality. Linger around too long in their areas (in the case of the former it could mean seconds) and you'll be double invaded or forced to invade another player. Also you get invaded while hollowed so that's not an option.

Even better on the former, joining that covenant doesn't protect you. It's Dickstab Forest 2: The Clusterfuck.

 

[Carnagath]

The "home base" in Demon's Souls (the Nexus) also starts off empty and then fills up as you meet/free/discover NPC's in the levels. I didn't mind it, maybe because Demon's Souls had, in my opinion, the best ending of the three.

 

[Ham Blitz]

First, I must say I haven't beat Dark Souls 2 yet though I am loving the game so far. I've only ever experienced the over ten to 15 times killing an enemy to make them disappear, one on accident and one because one group of enemies spawned right next to the bonfire and I decided to kill them enough so I would stop getting up to get shot by them.
That being said...

Remember when the free weapon drop from the second area you could visit was better than anything you could equip for the next ten hours? .

This has happened for me in Dark Souls 2. I am a strength build, and early on in the game I found the weapon Large Club, which when upgraded as has strength bonus of S ranking, literally making it the best weapon I have found in the game so far, and I am now in Drangleic Castle. I will admit I went a bit of a weird path: I got to the lost sinner after the giant, couldn't kill it so killed the belfry luna gargoyles, went the path of the no man's warf, came back and killed the sinner, then went the way down the pit all the way to the giant spider. After killing him, that Vengarl's armor (with no helm, never found one for it) from the headless guy has been the best armor I found until yesterday when I found Havel's Armor (which was too heavy for me so I am still in Vengarls). So compared to Dark Souls 1, I have really stayed with the same gear for more time on my first playthrough in 2.
I partially attribute this to knowing how bonuses work this time around as opposed to my first time in DS 1 where I didn't even know bonuses applied.
Granted, I guess in Dark Souls my second character (agile dex build) I found one of her best weapons early on (That katana from the merchant near the first bonfire on the first route you go post starting.

 

[Nachtmahr]

I like to think there are greater powers in the Dark Souls universe. And those powers really don't like how humans, or those with lord souls, were messing about with the nature of the soul. Gwyn split his soul up, Seath did horrific experiments and so forth. So I like to think of the undead curse as a punishment for their hubris. The flame was made to fade, and the curse was spread. A way of ending an age, and trying again, to see if humans get less stupid.

Cue Dark Souls 2, King Vendrick rules a prosperous land. He goes to fight the giants, steals something very precious (a great soul most likely), and boom, everything goes to crap. New curse. Another four great boss enemies with great souls, but also bearing great curses. Clearly, they started fucking about with souls again, trying to use them unnaturally. So, another chosen undead has to come and punish them by killing them, ushering in yet another age where humans can start over and maybe not screw it all up.

The whole idea that messing with the nature of souls is bad was introduced in Demon's Souls already. The king there starting using soul sorcery, and that attracted demons. Obviously the soul is something untouchable, something that you must never alter unnaturally, or else whatever greater power there is gets really pissed off, and gets the urge to bring in a new age to see if humans get less stupid.

Of course the greed for souls is also kind of a theme in the Souls games. Who can resist the lure of power ever greater souls bring? That was kind of the ending for Demon's Souls. Will you gather ever greater souls to sate you and the demons, or will you end that madness?

Souls games, to me, are about the nature of humans. In Dark Souls 1 for example, the world was unformed, but eventually humans were allowed to find fire and lord souls. A chance to bring in a new age. I like to think of it as someone giving them a chance to prove worthy of ruling the land. But they were not. So curse.

I think the only cure to the undead curse is the end of sorcery and the end of those unnatural experiments that were being conducted in both Dark Souls 1 and 2. The cure is to resist the lure of soul power and to hold the soul precious. Even the great souls you collect are twisted and corrupted. Sorcery, souls and corruption are closely linked in the games. I believe Faith is what greater powers wanted humans to use naturally.

So Souls Games to me, are very spiritual. What is a Soul, and what happens when you interfere with something so important?

I'm not religious, that is simply what I took away from the games. I think it's very thoughtful and the story is told in quite a masterful way in both games. Though I also would have liked just a little more ending in Dark Souls 2!

 

[zerragonoss]

I not sure this is accurate at all but I got the strong impression that king Vendrick was the protagonist form the first game who used the great souls to avoid going hollow and build a great kingdom, and when even that was not enough he went and stole more form the giants which lead to a big huge war. Overall though I just like the games story way better the difference in the opening scene and your opinion form the review really described it for me. It's not about some big monsters, and a world I don't care about. It's about you throwing yourself into the unknown looking for meaning, and from that I grew to care about the world.

Also The way I looked at the despawning is just removing an annoyance. At least for me after I have killed a group of enemies ten time I don't take a hit from the more than one time in five, as I know them to well. So they are no longer a challenge just a loading screen to get to the boss again. I also found it incredibly stratifying to be able to actually clear an area.

 

[DBLT4P]

I don't really know why, but it saddens me that Yahtzee didn't make it to the end of Siegmeyer's questline, I feel that the conclusion you get if you save him in Izalith, when you find him even further below is much more effecting and illustrative of the Dark Souls world.

 

[AdamG3691]

I personally think the whole "after the first game" makes it even more depressing.

dark lord or linking the fire, keeping the world on life support or just ending it quickly, it doesn't matter, no matter what choice you make, the fire reignites and causes the whole mess to start again, over, and over and over.
(as for the "canon" ending, the "most" canon theory is that we are in SOLAIRE'S world, not our character's, the Sublime Bone Dust says that it's from a saint who linked the fire, and according to the devs, if he survives, Solaire ALWAYS links the fire)

as for the story, the female gollum at the start tells you the ending in a single sentence: "one day you will stand before it's decrepit gates, without ever really knowing why". in the first game, you have lost everything, you were a hollow rotting in the undead asylum until one day destiny happens and you go on an adventure.

in DS2, youre desperately clinging on to your humanity, and slowly losing your memories like the other undead NPCs. the emerald herald takes advantage of that, everytime you level up or improve your estus flask, the herald is constantly reminding you to "seek the king", even as your memories vanish you remember that goal, until eventually that is all you have left.

and in the end, you stand before the gates, and no matter how hard you try to remember, you just can't think why.

 

[ciancon]

What bugs me is that I was looking forward to fighting those assassins with the white masks that were shown in the trailer. No sign of them in the game....

 

[Azure23]

I like to think there are greater powers in the Dark Souls universe. And those powers really don't like how humans, or those with lord souls, were messing about with the nature of the soul. Gwyn split his soul up, Seath did horrific experiments and so forth. So I like to think of the undead curse as a punishment for their hubris. The flame was made to fade, and the curse was spread. A way of ending an age, and trying again, to see if humans get less stupid.

Cue Dark Souls 2, King Vendrick rules a prosperous land. He goes to fight the giants, steals something very precious (a great soul most likely), and boom, everything goes to crap. New curse. Another four great boss enemies with great souls, but also bearing great curses. Clearly, they started fucking about with souls again, trying to use them unnaturally. So, another chosen undead has to come and punish them by killing them, ushering in yet another age where humans can start over and maybe not screw it all up.

The whole idea that messing with the nature of souls is bad was introduced in Demon's Souls already. The king there starting using soul sorcery, and that attracted demons. Obviously the soul is something untouchable, something that you must never alter unnaturally, or else whatever greater power there is gets really pissed off, and gets the urge to bring in a new age to see if humans get less stupid.

Of course the greed for souls is also kind of a theme in the Souls games. Who can resist the lure of power ever greater souls bring? That was kind of the ending for Demon's Souls. Will you gather ever greater souls to sate you and the demons, or will you end that madness?

Souls games, to me, are about the nature of humans. In Dark Souls 1 for example, the world was unformed, but eventually humans were allowed to find fire and lord souls. A chance to bring in a new age. I like to think of it as someone giving them a chance to prove worthy of ruling the land. But they were not. So curse.

I think the only cure to the undead curse is the end of sorcery and the end of those unnatural experiments that were being conducted in both Dark Souls 1 and 2. The cure is to resist the lure of soul power and to hold the soul precious. Even the great souls you collect are twisted and corrupted. Sorcery, souls and corruption are closely linked in the games. I believe Faith is what greater powers wanted humans to use naturally.

So Souls Games to me, are very spiritual. What is a Soul, and what happens when you interfere with something so important?

I'm not religious, that is simply what I took away from the games. I think it's very thoughtful and the story is told in quite a masterful way in both games. Though I also would have liked just a little more ending in Dark Souls 2!

This was a very interesting read, It's cool to see even like three years since DKS1 came out people are still speculating about the lore. I came away with a bit of a different take though. You say that there is some sort of higher power, and that very well may be true, it's certainly true in Demon's Souls, where "an irrevocable poison was placed (placed, by someone or something) upon the world" The old one is not god, it's what the humans worshipped as a god, but a god certainly exists in that world. In Lordran and Drangleic I'm a bit more uncerrtain of the presence of a higher power, except for maybe the primordial serpents. But the serpents seem to me to be shepherds of humanity, who have co-opted that role to serve their own purposes. Not gods, but watchers and influencers. The lords too, seem to be not gods, but a magical species apart from humanity. They can be killed, however they can also manipulate their size based on their power and live for thousands of years. Humanity became humanity when the furtive pygmy found the dark soul and shared it among humans, empowering them and letting them evolve past hollows (which is humanity's natural state in the beginning). The only reason that humans are humans is that the furtive pygmy found the dark souls instead of a great soul. I don't believe that some higher power was using the curse to cleanse the world, only because I don't believe Frampt or in the existence of a chosen undead. And you'll notice that humans don't really have much agency in Lordran, so I don't believe that the curse was a punishment for them being stupid. After all, the Lords were in charge of everything, you hear tales of great kings and warriors and yet we don't know whether they were human or lordly. To further confuse matters the lords can appear human at will, see Ciaran, who is clearly of a size with the player and yet very obviously not human by her words. Frankly I kinda always saw the curse as a seed planted by the primordial serpents, who I also see as agents of change. In this case I'm much more likely to believe Kaathe, simply because there is too much evidence that Frampt is outright lying to you, and in league with the remaining lords (mostly Gwyndolin, the manipulating bastard). If that's the case then Frampt is a traitor to the serpents and Kaathe is telling you the truth, the lords have oppressed humanity for too long, the flame is fading and should be allowed to go out, and the curse is just another of his tools for enabling the fall of the lords.

Dark souls 2 could be explained much the same way. Although clearly the giants are a separate species, Vendrick and his court could easily be the descendants of the exiled lords of Anor Londo. As to why the curse resurfaced? That's a bit of a puzzler, I think that in general the story of DKS2 isn't nearly as tight or interwoven so there may not be an answer out there except that they needed a plot catalyst.

Woah, long rambling post, sorry about that. I get excited about Dark Souls lore.

 

[Azure23]

What bugs me is that I was looking forward to fighting those assassins with the white masks that were shown in the trailer. No sign of them in the game....

Pretty sure they're the manikins of harvest valley, they changed the mask design to be more horror/creepy but ended up being boring and unmemorable, the clothing and weaponry is still the same though.

 

[ciancon]

What bugs me is that I was looking forward to fighting those assassins with the white masks that were shown in the trailer. No sign of them in the game....

Pretty sure they're the manikins of harvest valley, they changed the mask design to be more horror/creepy but ended up being boring and unmemorable, the clothing and weaponry is still the same though.

Oh wow, you're right....whose decision was that!?

 

[WWmelb]

I personally think the whole "after the first game" makes it even more depressing.

dark lord or linking the fire, keeping the world on life support or just ending it quickly, it doesn't matter, no matter what choice you make, the fire reignites and causes the whole mess to start again, over, and over and over.
(as for the "canon" ending, the "most" canon theory is that we are in SOLAIRE'S world, not our character's, the Sublime Bone Dust says that it's from a saint who linked the fire, and according to the devs, if he survives, Solaire ALWAYS links the fire)

as for the story, the female gollum at the start tells you the ending in a single sentence: "one day you will stand before it's decrepit gates, without ever really knowing why". in the first game, you have lost everything, you were a hollow rotting in the undead asylum until one day destiny happens and you go on an adventure.

in DS2, youre desperately clinging on to your humanity, and slowly losing your memories like the other undead NPCs. the emerald herald takes advantage of that, everytime you level up or improve your estus flask, the herald is constantly reminding you to "seek the king", even as your memories vanish you remember that goal, until eventually that is all you have left.

and in the end, you stand before the gates, and no matter how hard you try to remember, you just can't think why.

Man , fantastic idea. That gave me goosebumps. I like your thinking

 

[Nachtmahr]

This was a very interesting read, It's cool to see even like three years since DKS1 came out people are still speculating about the lore. I came away with a bit of a different take though. You say that there is some sort of higher power, and that very well may be true, it's certainly true in Demon's Souls, where "an irrevocable poison was placed (placed, by someone or something) upon the world" The old one is not god, it's what the humans worshipped as a god, but a god certainly exists in that world. In Lordran and Drangleic I'm a bit more uncerrtain of the presence of a higher power, except for maybe the primordial serpents. But the serpents seem to me to be shepherds of humanity, who have co-opted that role to serve their own purposes. Not gods, but watchers and influencers. The lords too, seem to be not gods, but a magical species apart from humanity. They can be killed, however they can also manipulate their size based on their power and live for thousands of years. Humanity became humanity when the furtive pygmy found the dark soul and shared it among humans, empowering them and letting them evolve past hollows (which is humanity's natural state in the beginning). The only reason that humans are humans is that the furtive pygmy found the dark souls instead of a great soul. I don't believe that some higher power was using the curse to cleanse the world, only because I don't believe Frampt or in the existence of a chosen undead. And you'll notice that humans don't really have much agency in Lordran, so I don't believe that the curse was a punishment for them being stupid. After all, the Lords were in charge of everything, you hear tales of great kings and warriors and yet we don't know whether they were human or lordly. To further confuse matters the lords can appear human at will, see Ciaran, who is clearly of a size with the player and yet very obviously not human by her words. Frankly I kinda always saw the curse as a seed planted by the primordial serpents, who I also see as agents of change. In this case I'm much more likely to believe Kaathe, simply because there is too much evidence that Frampt is outright lying to you, and in league with the remaining lords (mostly Gwyndolin, the manipulating bastard). If that's the case then Frampt is a traitor to the serpents and Kaathe is telling you the truth, the lords have oppressed humanity for too long, the flame is fading and should be allowed to go out, and the curse is just another of his tools for enabling the fall of the lords.

Dark souls 2 could be explained much the same way. Although clearly the giants are a separate species, Vendrick and his court could easily be the descendants of the exiled lords of Anor Londo. As to why the curse resurfaced? That's a bit of a puzzler, I think that in general the story of DKS2 isn't nearly as tight or interwoven so there may not be an answer out there except that they needed a plot catalyst.

Woah, long rambling post, sorry about that. I get excited about Dark Souls lore.

Interesting, I always thought of those with Lord Souls as humans that simply took greater souls to set themselves apart. The Lord Souls allowed them to take power, build cities and make the land flourish. So I agree, humans are likely not being punished, I thought of them more as the actual instrument of punishment. When the flames faded, signalling the Lords their time was up, they clung to power.

I also agree that there is no chosen undead, any undead like the player character can go on the journey. The player character is just the only one who 'succeeds'.

I also definitely think Drangleic was founded by descendants of those with Lord Souls. Gwynevere I believe was said to have left, perhaps she went across the sea to where Drangleic is. According to Dark Souls 2 Vendrick took a prize from the giants for himself, and he brought it back home with him. Whatever he took let him manifest and control the golems, and with them, he built up his kingdom.

The golems appear to get powered by souls, so again I think he used souls in ways not intended. Thus the curse resurfaced in humans, to perhaps fell that kingdom, too. But Dark Souls 2 is definitely more vague there. Maybe with Dark Souls 2, the last of those with Lord Souls are finally gone, and humanity can finally get a real chance to govern themselves.

I am personally hoping for a DLC that ties everything together a little more.

 

[MeisterKleister]

Since the PC release, I finally got around to playing this.
I noticed that some of the changes really encourage multiplayer:
Ran out of effigies and need to turn human? Get summoned by another player and help him defeat a boss.
Want to farm souls, but ran out of monsters? Get summoned.

Anyway, I very much agree with your article.