Dark Souls Port Brings Console Problems to PC

[Waaghpowa]

Because of monitors don't work the same way a TV does , plus you are sitting a lot lot closer to it generally with a PC so it's blindingly obvious .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video

TVs use interlacing pc monitors do not, pc monitors us e progressive scanning. The difference is like night and day at 30fps, on a tv it's effectively 60 fps because of the way interlacing works, monitor users on the other hand have no such benefit.

Oh plus of there is fps drop which is quite possible with the way the game runs (dark town) then its going to look like a PowerPoint presentation.

Also what this guy said. People don't realize that monitors and TVs function differently.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Well, I stand corrected. But you'll have to forgive me if I still think that the guys who I initially responded to are several different kinds of crazy.

To be fair, a lot of people are responding to the comments regarding the FPS cap with an understandable degree of ignorance. In fact, a lot of the accusations being made towards PC gamers being "Entitled" or "Elitist" is fairly ignorant. Wanting a game that performs well with high end hardware isn't entitled. How would you react if one of your xbox/ps3 games ran like crap? You would be complaining your ass off I'm sure. It's not a matter of "You should be grateful" bullshit, it's a matter of being able to provide a decent product, which so far this is shaping up to be less than optimal.

As Zipa has shown, people simply don't understand the difference and are quick to jump to conclusions without knowing the facts.

 

[Xdeser2]

Lol in the absolute worst case scenario, PC gamers know that the game will work and still be just as fun as the console version.

Exactly WHY should I be outraged that they are not giving one side an advantage in this? OH WAIT your getting new content for free anyway -_-

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I've never heard of a movie that actually went above 30fps.

Yeah but last time I looked games aren't movies.

Thing is, and I've never understand why it comes up so rarely in fps pissing contests, is that a higher frame rate allows for more responsive controls... it's to do with instuction sets being processed between frame renders.

To be honest, Bandai Namco are doing everything exactly the way they should if they want to ensure they're never asked to bring a game to PC ever again.

I've never understood the aversion to PC games in Japan. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

It's not a 'japanese aversion to PC games' issue it's a 'a number of publishers and developers are dicks to PC gaming' issue. Bandai Namco are one of that number.

Of course, I'm already biased against them because of their lawsuits against CD Projekt.

At least you're honest. It's still not okay to demean the developer's lack of experience and funding when it's apparently the publisher's fault.

I didn't demean From... I mean, I can demean them if it's important to you that I do so but I'd rather continue to point an accusatory finger at Bandai Namco *spits*.

Here's the thing, From might be inexperienced with PCs, they might not have been given sufficient resource, and yeah, they probably are doing the best they can with what they were given. I won't argue that.

From are probably completely blameless in all this and don't deserve the shit being thrown at them...

... BUT

Even taking all that into consideration, even if we take it as gospel truth, it doesn't excuse the fact that some fuckpuddle, somewhere (most likely at Bandai Namco in this case), thinks it's perfectly fine to keep pushing copy-paste ports on PC gamers... not to mention adding GFWL on top of that.

I'm still pretty confident about it getting a patch, too.

Fan patches don't count, though. It's got to be official support.

To be honest, I actually enjoyed the PC port of Dead Rising 2, so what do I know?

Dead Rising 2 was an okay PC port. A bit clunky on the volumetrics but otherwise not much I can remember about it to complain about... Sort of surprising in a way, seeing as it's a Capcom title... who didn't think to add mouse support for their RE 4 PC port.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

How would you react if one of your xbox/ps3 games ran like crap? You would be complaining your ass off I'm sure.

Man, the next time a PS3 game has *ahem* 'launch performance issues' (it's like erectile dysfunction for games!), and it's always the PS3 version that has the problem, I'm going to be tempted to use the 'you should be grateful' routine.

 

[Darkmantle]

Sure, bringing Dark Souls to the PC sounds like a good idea, but we're dealing with a company who have primarily worked on consoles with little to no experience with the PC. And as a result, they're putting out a copy of the game with not only no optimizations but with the same problems as the consoles. And Lord knows what the hell else may lurk in there...

I applaud them for trying to appease the fans, but I'm pretty certain they're not going to like how rabid the fans will get with this come release. If only they had either taken more time with it or handed it off to a team with previous PC experience, maybe it could have been cleaned up.

well if the uppity PC fans don't buy it after they demanded it, the developers won't even bother to release any more ports. They have implied as much in the past, and it's why they were hesitant to make the port in the first place. Too many PC gamers are never happy with what they get, and will burn the developer too much.

It's a company taking it's first foray into putting on the PC game at all, let alone a port, and they get nothing but hate from it. I hope they never do anything nice for you guys again.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

And the backlash will have different effects based on how many copies are sold. If it's too few, "PC players obviously have no interest in our continued support for their platform". If it's enough, which is sadly unlikely, "PC players have high expectations, but are willing to pay for those expectations. We will continue to support their platform"

Pfffft. No. We're talking about PUBLISHERS here... specifically, the douchenozzles at Bandai Namco.

Too few sales will result in the all-too-predictable "PIRATES! PIRATES! PIRATES ARE WHY WE DON'T DO PC GAMES!" song and dance routine (which, unfortunately, still doesn't include the song "I am the Very Model of A Modern Software Publisher.")

Enough sales will result in "Hahaha... they'll still pay for copy-paste ports? MORE COPY-PASTE PORTS!"

 

[OldNewNewOld]

Oh wow, let me search Google for that PC exclusives chart.

...

Hwup, found it: [link]http://www.medievalfuture.com/tilt/images/ibkOmw.jpg[/link]

A nice,post, but it has nothing to do with my post. So, care to explain why you quoted me?

More OT

This isn't so much as question about graphics, but about principle.

I think that we all can agree that this is a ultra hardcore bad port. I didn't not say that the game is bad, but that the port is bad.
Buying the game would be rewarding the developer for giving me a bad port. I won't do that. I won't reward a lazy person. Or a person that doesn't deserve the reward. Maybe they did all they could, but that still isn't an excuse for missing the BASIC things that PC ports have. No limit on the frame rate, changeable resolution (which does shit), changing the controls... those are standards for over a decade. If they can't meat that, I can't give them my money.

Also, it's sad to see how low the standard for console gamer is. The gameplay can be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't fix all the technical problems that the game has. Again, it's not about the graphics, it's about the principle. I won't reward someone for a broken product.

And they didn't have any experience isn't a excuse. Outsourcing is done on a regular basis in this day and age. It's cheap-ish, fast, practical and covers all the mistakes you would make. There is no excuse for not doing that if you admit not knowing to do PC ports. Whether is't FROM or Bandai who didn't think about it, I don't care. Buying the game is still rewarding a sloppy job.

And sending them a "it's okay to sell us a broken port" signal is the last thing I want to use. Every successful bad port is a message that they can lower the standard.


EDIT:
Another thing.
A petition is NOT demanding anything. A petition is there to show the developer interest in a product. But the developer needs to take into account the standard of those people who are signing a petition, because those people expect a product that will meat their standard.

EDIT2:
To make it clear, 30 FPS and lower resolutions CAN be fine for console games, but it's impossible bad for PC games.
Unlike you, I'm at best 1m away from my monitor. Even the tiniest mistakes are huge. Any fps drop is visible. While a drop from 60 to 50 isn't anything huge, a drop from 30 to 20, or even 25 is just unforgiving.

There is also the thing that most modern TV's smoother the picture out (usually blurring it, but still does the job) while PC monitors don't do that. But it could be just my imagination on the last part.

There is also the thing that I'm used to higher fps. But not only because of the smoother experience in the picture, but also because of the much more responsive controls. Once you get used to such responsive controls, getting back isn't something I would pay for.

 

[Zipa]

Oh wow, let me search Google for that PC exclusives chart.

...

Hwup, found it: [link]http://www.medievalfuture.com/tilt/images/ibkOmw.jpg[/link]

A nice,post, but it has nothing to do with my post. So, care to explain why you quoted me?

More OT

This isn't so much as question about graphics, but about principle.

I think that we all can agree that this is a ultra hardcore bad port. I didn't not say that the game is bad, but that the port is bad.
Buying the game would be rewarding the developer for giving me a bad port. I won't do that. I won't reward a lazy person. Or a person that doesn't deserve the reward. Maybe they did all they could, but that still isn't an excuse for missing the BASIC things that PC ports have. No limit on the frame rate, changeable resolution (which does shit), changing the controls... those are standards for over a decade. If they can't meat that, I can't give them my money.

Also, it's sad to see how low the standard for console gamer is. The gameplay can be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't fix all the technical problems that the game has. Again, it's not about the graphics, it's about the principle. I won't reward someone for a broken product.

And they didn't have any experience isn't a excuse. Outsourcing is done on a regular basis in this day and age. It's cheap-ish, fast, practical and covers all the mistakes you would make. There is no excuse for not doing that if you admit not knowing to do PC ports. Whether is't FROM or Bandai who didn't think about it, I don't care. Buying the game is still rewarding a sloppy job.

And sending them a "it's okay to sell us a broken port" signal is the last thing I want to use. Every successful bad port is a message that they can lower the standard.


EDIT:
Another thing.
A petition is NOT demanding anything. A petition is there to show the developer interest in a product. But the developer needs to take into account the standard of those people who are signing a petition, because those people expect a product that will meat their standard.

EDIT2:
To make it clear, 30 FPS and lower resolutions CAN be fine for console games, but it's impossible bad for PC games.
Unlike you, I'm at best 1m away from my monitor. Even the tiniest mistakes are huge. Any fps drop is visible. While a drop from 60 to 50 isn't anything huge, a drop from 30 to 20, or even 25 is just unforgiving.

There is also the thing that most modern TV's smoother the picture out (usually blurring it, but still does the job) while PC monitors don't do that. But it could be just my imagination on the last part.

There is also the thing that I'm used to higher fps. But not only because of the smoother experience in the picture, but also because of the much more responsive controls. Once you get used to such responsive controls, getting back isn't something I would pay for.

You are not imagining it, as I posted on the last page TVs and PC monitors work totally differently. TVs use interlaced video which basically means that its really running at 60fps on a 30fps image. Monitors however don't use the same technology so what looks good on a TV at 30fps looks like ass on a PC monitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video - This is what TVs use
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan - This is what monitors use.

Despite what people are saying in this thread its nothing to do with graphics at all its down to the differences between the console and PC tech and there is little you can do about it unless you have the facility to hook up a normal TV to a PC. (or wait for someone to crack it)

 

[Evil Smurf]

"Oh no, 30 fps! Whatever will we doooooooooooooooooooooo?!"

The game was perfectly playable on consoles.
The game will be the same, if not slightly better, on PC.
Therefore it will be perfectly playable on PC.

You fool! I need 60+fps to be happy in life!

 

[thesilentman]

Oh wow, let me search Google for that PC exclusives chart.

...

Hwup, found it: [link]http://www.medievalfuture.com/tilt/images/ibkOmw.jpg[/link]

A nice,post, but it has nothing to do with my post. So, care to explain why you quoted me?

More OT

This isn't so much as question about graphics, but about principle.

I think that we all can agree that this is a ultra hardcore bad port. I didn't not say that the game is bad, but that the port is bad.
Buying the game would be rewarding the developer for giving me a bad port. I won't do that. I won't reward a lazy person. Or a person that doesn't deserve the reward. Maybe they did all they could, but that still isn't an excuse for missing the BASIC things that PC ports have. No limit on the frame rate, changeable resolution (which does shit), changing the controls... those are standards for over a decade. If they can't meat that, I can't give them my money.

Also, it's sad to see how low the standard for console gamer is. The gameplay can be the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't fix all the technical problems that the game has. Again, it's not about the graphics, it's about the principle. I won't reward someone for a broken product.

And they didn't have any experience isn't a excuse. Outsourcing is done on a regular basis in this day and age. It's cheap-ish, fast, practical and covers all the mistakes you would make. There is no excuse for not doing that if you admit not knowing to do PC ports. Whether is't FROM or Bandai who didn't think about it, I don't care. Buying the game is still rewarding a sloppy job.

And sending them a "it's okay to sell us a broken port" signal is the last thing I want to use. Every successful bad port is a message that they can lower the standard.


EDIT:
Another thing.
A petition is NOT demanding anything. A petition is there to show the developer interest in a product. But the developer needs to take into account the standard of those people who are signing a petition, because those people expect a product that will meat their standard.

EDIT2:
To make it clear, 30 FPS and lower resolutions CAN be fine for console games, but it's impossible bad for PC games.
Unlike you, I'm at best 1m away from my monitor. Even the tiniest mistakes are huge. Any fps drop is visible. While a drop from 60 to 50 isn't anything huge, a drop from 30 to 20, or even 25 is just unforgiving.

There is also the thing that most modern TV's smoother the picture out (usually blurring it, but still does the job) while PC monitors don't do that. But it could be just my imagination on the last part.

There is also the thing that I'm used to higher fps. But not only because of the smoother experience in the picture, but also because of the much more responsive controls. Once you get used to such responsive controls, getting back isn't something I would pay for.

BTW, I'm also a PC gamer. I really just pulled that chart to prove that not everything is a console port.

But really, I did post above that I wouldn't have cared that it would be in 30 FPS and only 720p, but there are higher standards for PC. I also sit a meter away from the screen and even I can't wonder how I managed to play Skyrim on my desktop that averaged 25 FPS after trying it on my laptop and getting a stable 45 FPS. I believe that this was a bad case of miscommunication (yes it was) as us PC players wanted 60 FPS and 1080p support and From directly ported the console version under 'we want PC' petition. I started caring when they mentioned no remappable controls, though.

Bottom line is, I'll still get the game, but it disappoints me that us gamers couldn't properly articulate what we wanted for PC Dark Souls to a team that knew nothing about PC development.

Edits for grammar and clarity

 

[Waaghpowa]

How would you react if one of your xbox/ps3 games ran like crap? You would be complaining your ass off I'm sure.

Man, the next time a PS3 game has *ahem* 'launch performance issues' (it's like erectile dysfunction for games!), and it's always the PS3 version that has the problem, I'm going to be tempted to use the 'you should be grateful' routine.

I'll laugh when they try to call you an elitist for it too.

 

[Judgement101]

To all you PC gamers that are moaning about this. DEAL WITH IT. You shouldn't even be getting a port of this game but your constant complaining ended up getting you something that you are going to complain more about?

More generalizations? Read the thread. And petition =/= complaining.

It's funny because a petition is a formalized complaint.

 

[Madman123456]

Besides PC vs Consoles Bullshit, this is another bad Port. You can't directly port over any software and expect it to work perfectly fine.
And that's just sloppy. You can't port this Game to Wii and expect it to work perfectly well with no Modifictations.
Xbox to PS ports wont work all that well if you don't put some work into them.

This is another Product that wont work as well as it should be and People shouldn't buy that. I would say the same thing about any port from any Platform to any other Platform. If the Developer can't be bothered to give a fuck, why should you?

 

[malestrithe]

I find it funny how Jim Sterling made the case that it was developers being myopic about performance and graphics. But, here we are seeing gamers making the same argument about how it better performs at some mythical medium or they will not like it. I guess performance is a problem with all spectrums of the gaming community.

Also, I never experienced the slowdown issues in Blight town.