Daunte Wright Accidental Shooting

Revnak

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Or, it could be that they genuinely aren't happy with their actions, realize the magnitude of it, and aren't going to try and continue in the police force after such a serious fuckup. I do think the US police system is royally fucked from top to bottom, I do think that not every single cop is a festering douchebag, and that some of them, would indeed make the conscious choice to not be a cop anymore, if they errored so badly on what they were reaching for, that they killed someone.
She’s the police union president. For reference, the police union president in Minneapolis is literally a Nazi, and here in Portland ours had to resign from that position for leaking a fake police report targeting a police reform advocate to far-right “news” outlets. Police union presidents tend to be elected by arguing that they’ll do the best they can to defend cops from consequences. She’s also been involved in a different death within the last two years where she tried to cover up wrongdoing. She’s not great.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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That's not a good analogy, because she only pulled the trigger at the end of that ten seconds.
If you can hold something in your hands for ten seconds and not realize what it is, even in a stressful situation (don't dare try to tell me it's "life or death"; the officer was not under threat), then there is something wrong with you.

I'd prefer my police departments to not hire people who murder unarmed people, thank you very much.
Some people don't care quite so much. They view the police as their enforcers, making sure that "those people" stay "where they belong" and live under an aura of fear, because they can't stop being afraid of "those people". Some "thug who had it coming" with empty, handcuffed hands getting shot in the back is a small price to pay for that.
 
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Eacaraxe

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If you can hold something in your hands for ten seconds and not realize what it is, even in a stressful situation (don't dare try to tell me it's "life or death"; the officer was not under threat), then there is something wrong with you.
This is a situation not dissimilar to that of high-speed police chases being more dangerous and putting more lives and property at risk, than the alternative of simply letting suspects flee and putting out APB's for their arrest after the fact. Or, for that matter, police-created exigencies and the wiggle room it creates for cops to violate the Fourth Amendment practically at will.
 

SilentPony

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If you can hold something in your hands for ten seconds and not realize what it is, even in a stressful situation (don't dare try to tell me it's "life or death"; the officer was not under threat), then there is something wrong with you.
Its bad enough officers can't tell the difference between a wallet, or cellphone, or ice-cream cone and a gun when someone else is holding it, its WAY worse when they can't tell when they're holding a gun themselves.
I've held/fired a pistol, and held at least a type of taser during some of my defense classes. They don't feel at all alike, if for no other reason the weight of a loaded pistol is way more noticeable compared to a taser.
 

Gordon_4

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Most contemporary pistols altogether are like that nowadays, not limited to police service pistols. Explanation spoilered for those not firearm-savvy so as to not derail.

Most contemporary pistols are striker-fired, rather than hammer-fired. Striker-fired pistols don't have hammers and mainsprings, eliminating potential points of failure from the firing mechanism. In hammer-fired pistols, you pull the trigger, which releases the hammer, the hammer hits the firing pin, the firing pin contacts the round's primer, and the gun fires. In striker-fired pistols, you pull the trigger which releases the striker, and the striker contacts the round's primer.

In hammer-fired pistols, manual or grip safeties either lock the trigger, disconnect the trigger from the firing mechanism, lock the hammer, or place a block between hammer and firing pin which prevents contact between the two. These mechanisms reduce the possibility of accidental discharge but don't eliminate it, because they don't act on the firing pin and its relationship to the round's primer directly. Striker-fired pistols, on the other hand, have a block that slides between the striker and the primer that only disengages when the trigger is pulled, meaning that relationship between pin and primer is acted upon directly thereby eliminating possibility of accidental discharge under normal circumstances.

Therefore, manual safeties on striker-fired pistols are redundant. They can be included, but they're not necessary for the sake of preventing accidental discharge. Pretty much all else is a case of "keep your booger hook off the bang switch, dipshit".
That final bit of turn of phrase there is just fucking delightful.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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You wouldn't. The tasers are designed to be handled almost exactly like the gun in order for the officer to not need extra shooting training for a separate device.
As someone who owns multiple pistols and has held a taser, you can absolutely tell the difference between a taser and a handgun by feel.

A gun is heavier, it doesn't feel as plasticy, and tasers have a shorter stubbier grip than the full-size handguns that police officers tend to carry.

If you were comparing a taser and a subcompact pistol, then maybe it would be harder to tell the difference, but no cops carry a subcompact pistol as their duty weapon.
 
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Eacaraxe

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A gun is heavier, it doesn't feel as plasticy, and tasers have a shorter stubbier grip than the full-size handguns that police officers tend to carry.
Not to mention, at least in the case of the tasers I've held, weight distribution, balance, bore axis, and profile from the wielder's perspective are fundamentally different and unmistakable under practically any circumstance. Even in the case of newer, predominantly polymer-construction, semi-automatic pistols. A loaded full size 9mm magazine alone is going to be heavier than most tasers.
 

gorfias

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The Fruitvale Station shooting resulted in an involuntary manslaughter conviction of the officer who did the shooting. I think this officer faces the same charge. One person argued that this is like someone recklessly jumping into the path of an oncoming car. The oncoming driver hits the accelerator by accident. I think that person is wrong. She had a duty to pay attention to the weapon she is drawing and not shoot the kid. She failed. Same with the driver. Last chance to avoid the damage. Do I buy her claim? Watching the tape I do. I've been cooking for years, but in a hurry, I've thrown trash in the fridge and food into the trash. But that didn't result in a death.

I agree with other posters in this thread. They need to change the shape of this thing

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TheMysteriousGX

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On the one hand: yes, it's easy to make very simple mistakes in the heat of a violent situation

On the other hand: the only reason this turned into a violent situation was police escalation.

I have very little patience for people who start a conflict and then shoot their way out of it.
 

Agema

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If you can hold something in your hands for ten seconds and not realize what it is, even in a stressful situation (don't dare try to tell me it's "life or death"; the officer was not under threat), then there is something wrong with you.
No, it is a perfectly natural thing that people do all the time. You, I and everyone else here will do this sort of thing ourselves every year - we go to get a spoon and in a lack of concentration pick up a fork instead, walk to the table and sit down to our bowl of soup and... oops.

We expect police officers to have the training to check and reassess, particularly with the risk of lethal force, and it is a culpable failure when they do not. But it is still a very human error that literally anyone can and - given enough opportunities - everyone will make. That is exactly why processes exist to increase the differentiation of firearm and taser: because we make these mistakes, and it's all about risk minimisation. But risk elimination is unlike to ever happen, short of not giving them guns at all.
 

Eacaraxe

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You'll get no argument from me there. My point was aimed at the armchair experts who obviously have never been in a stressful, violent situation and yet can, with utter certainty, say that this was not a mistake but deliberate homicide.
We're -- or at least I am -- saying that distinction between manslaughter and homicide are irrelevant in the bigger picture. Issues with cops are much more deeply-rooted and systemic than one officer who simply fucked up and a man died. It's not that this incident happened, it's that incidents like this keep happening and with shocking regularity.
 

tstorm823

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No, it is a perfectly natural thing that people do all the time. You, I and everyone else here will do this sort of thing ourselves every year - we go to get a spoon and in a lack of concentration pick up a fork instead, walk to the table and sit down to our bowl of soup and... oops.
Obviously, you need more sporks in your life.
 

Eacaraxe

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There are massive systemic issues with the police forces in the USA. You've already mentioned those I think are the most concerning ones; a way too short training program, the proliferation of firearms and the policy of using firearms early and often (I'd also add the problem of US police officers rarely requesting back-up for "routine" procedures like getting a suspect in a car like in this case but instead brute forcing a bad solution). However, I don't think we can say that episodes like this one happens with shocking regularity. Very rarely do we hear of accidental shootings from police, but rather about lethal force being intentionally exercised in situations when it is obvious that it was not needed.

Wright's death sticks out because it seems to be an honest mistake from a police officer who failed to keep their cool and wasn't an intentional use of lethal force. I think it deserves to be discussed as a separate issue due to that. That said, some of the solutions to minimize these situations will be the same as the ones to stop police from frivolously discharging their firearms against people of color.
"We hear of" being the operative words, because these events only became well-known due to the proliferation of video recording technology, the first being Rodney King that I can recall due to having been filmed by a bystander of whom the cops weren't aware. Beyond that, cops have proven themselves exceedingly good at covering their tracks on paperwork, and generally enjoy the support of municipal governments, their own unions, and a public eager to make excuses for them at every available opportunity.

Even failing to account for this, what the public is learning now these events do occur with rather shocking regularity. With enough regularity to create studies of shootings that resulted from drawing a firearm instead of a taser, and draw conclusions based upon that data to advise police departments where on cops' kit tasers should be placed relative to their firearms to minimize the likelihood of occurrence. This really is a point on which people should take a step back, and think about the full ramifications that police have to have rules and regulations about this in the first place; that came from somewhere.

And, it's not just the circumstances of cops drawing firearms instead of tasers -- forget for a second this was a violent confrontation that had been provoked and escalated by the officers themselves.

Compounding and aggravating the issues are the events such as those that led to Philando Castile's death, where an officer shot at him seven times at point-blank range in a panic for having simply been calmly advised by Castile he was a licensed carrier and had a legal firearm, legally stowed, in his vehicle. Events such as mistaking items that are obviously not guns, for guns, and preemptively opening fire. Events such as being shot multiple times for simply complying to police requests. Or, events such as being shot for resisting an unlawful detention entirely absent probable cause or even reasonable suspicion by a clearly belligerent officer who had already committed assault on the man shot.




Simply put, you're wrong. Wright's death does not in any way "stick out". It doesn't deserve to be discussed as a separate issue.