David Cage is one of the worst writers in the industry

[Dirty Hipsters]

So, since Beyond Two Souls is coming out people have been talking a lot about David Cage's other two games, Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain. These are two really polarizing games, there are people who think that they're absolutely brilliant, and there's people who think that they are the dumbest garbage ever.

In the case of people thinking that the games are good, they always point to the stories, and talk about how engaging and emotional they are, and how they're well written.

Those people are WRONG.

I've decided to put together a list of all the ways in which David Cages stories make absolutely no sense. How? I'm going to go through both games, and point out as many of the inconsistencies and stupid plot holes as I possibly can. I might not get all of them, there's A LOT, but the rest of you out there who have played these games can fill in the blanks.

Indigo Prophecy:

Spoiler

1. The oracle is a Mayan guy with Mayan mystical powers, yet none of the imagery associated with his powers is in any way Mayan. He attacks you with giant head lice, angels, etc. Hell, he has to use candles and pentagrams to do his Mayan killing ritual. There isn't a unified theme to anything, it's like David Cage just took all the symbolism and imagery he could think of and shoved it into the game with absolutely no meanings attached to it.

2. There is never an explanation for why the world is freezing over. There's no lead up to it, nothing. In the last chapter of the game David Cage just goes "oh, by the way, apocalypse."

3. Why does Lucas Kane have the same powers as the Oracle when their powers come from two completely different places?! The Oracle has magic Mayan powers and Lucas Kane got his powers from Aliens.

4. It's explicitly stated by the Mayan studies professor that the reason the Oracle has to control Lucas Kane to kill people for his ritual is because the Oracle is not allowed to kill anyone himself, otherwise he loses his powers because he becomes impure. Approximately half an hour later the Oracle kills Lucas and his ex-girlfriend, and his powers do not disappear.

5. Now back to the aliens. Why are there aliens? Why are there aliens? WHY ARE THERE ALIENS?!

6. Carla believes everything Lucas tells her about having magic powers, and being controlled by a mystical Mayan Oracle, when she has seen absolutely no proof of any of that. All of the evidence she has points to Lucas Kane being the killer, and yet when he says "I didn't do it, I was being mind controlled by the Oracle" her response is "yup, his story checks out." Not only that, but she has sex with him and falls in love with him within an hour of actually meeting. WHAT?!

7. Why do the two cops play basketball outside, in nothing but shorts and jerseys when it's 2 degrees Fahrenheit out and the world is apparently freezing over? WHY?!

8. Lucas Kanes hair changes color for no reason and is never explained in the plot. He starts out with brown hair, then after he escapes from the police using his alien martial arts powers he has blond hair, and then after he dies and gets resurrected his hair is black. No mention of this, no explanation, nothing.

9. The Indigo child has absolutely no point, she may as well have been a magic item or something, considering the fact that she's a person never plays into the game, what with her not having a single line of dialogue, and no one caring about the consequences of what will happen to the child after they complete their magic rituals with her.

Heavy Rain:

Spoiler

1. Throughout the game Ethan has random black outs where he loses consciousness then wakes up hours later without knowing where he is or what he's done, and with origami figures in his pocket. Every time this happens he gets a little closer to believing that he himself is the origami killer, and that he kidnapped his own son when he was unconscious. This is not the case, since Shelby is the killer, but the game never explains why Ethan was having blackouts, or why he had origami figures in this pocket afterward. It's a plot thread that comes out of nowhere, and then gets dropped just as fast with absolutely no explanation. Not only this, but the black outs are also the main evidence that the police have against Ethan.

2. Why the hell does anyone believe Ethan when he says he isn't the Origami Killer? Madison helps him, find his kid, patches him up, has sex with him, falls in love with him, helps him escape from the police, and why? He never gives her any real explanation, he's really just some guy to her. This is the same problem as Indigo Prophecy, women having sex with the main character and falling in love with him for NO REASON, just because he's the main character.

3. Why does Jayden help Ethan escape from the police department? Again, it makes absolutely no sense. Even if he's innocent, like Jayden believes, with absolutely no proof, Jayden has no reason to help him escape police custody. Especially not when it's incredibly obvious that Jayden was the one who helped him escape, and yet Jayden never gets caught, never gets fired or reprimanded, nothing.

4. Why does Shelby call the police on himself after he kills the old guy in the type writer shop? It's like he leaves behind evidence that he killed the guy purposefully and then really hopes that the police are incredibly incompetent.

5. Speaking of the police being incompetent, why doesn't Shelby get arrested after the shootout in the mansion? He killed 20 guys, that's a lot of dead bodies to cover up.

6. How the hell does Shelby set up the trial for Ethan that has the tunnel covered in broken glass? Ethan is a skinny guy and can barely fit in the tunnel, how does Shelby manage to do it being twice Ethan's size?

Both of these games have massive, terrible, incredibly stupid plot holes, and everything that is wrong with both Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain is tied directly to David Cage writing and directing those games. Even if we disregard the fact that a lot of us hate quicktime events, and the controls of the games, which are subjective criticisms, objectively speaking the games fail on the most basic levels of storytelling, and this is unforgivable for games whose primary, and only purpose is good story telling.

Now, are there games with worse stories out there? Yes, in fact, most video games have bad or even terrible stories, and plot holes, but that's really not the point here. The reason those games have bad stories usually is because the story is an afterthought, an excuse for the game mechanics. With Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain David Cage did his best trying to craft a good stories for his video games, almost completely sacrificing game mechanics to make way for his cinematic stories, and for all that work, the stories are still utter nonsense. This is why David Cage is one of the worst writers in the industry. He is given all the tools, everything he could possibly need or want to craft a good story, and that's all that's exacted from him, and yet he still fails all because he is a bad story teller.

Stop defending his games.

TLR - David Cage is a horrible writer and you should get unhyped for Beyond Two Souls. The entire plot structure of both his previous games is completely destroyed if you think about any of the characters' actions for more than 5 seconds.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Not only is he a horrible writer, but he's also a horrible game designer. He's one of those guys who don't have the necessary skills or talent to make it in the movie industry, so video game industry was the best a guy like him could do. And he sucks at that too. The only way he could be more unoriginal is if he were remaking movies into games. He's like a bad fan-fiction writer who had the luck of actually getting job as a writer somewhere.

 

[Racecarlock]

Calling his writing bad is one thing, in fact I'd agree there.

Telling people to not like him because YOU said so? That's pretty terrible. No one, not me, not you, not even the damn president, has ANY right to try and dictate what people can or can't like. The only person's preferences you can control are your own.

All that said, David basically combined CSI with SAW and threw in an investigative journalist and the story of taken and now thinks he's the jesus of writing, so I'd call him pretty damn arrogant if nothing else.

 

[BrotherRool]

In the case of people thinking that the games are good, they always point to the stories, and talk about how engaging and emotional they are, and how they're well written.

Those people are WRONG.

....
Stop defending his games.

I agree that David Cage is a bad writer, but you've got a small but crucial piece of logic backwards that is misdirecting you for the rest of it.

What we have is a situation is where lots of people have said 'wow I found this really emotional and interesting, I was really caught up in this game it's engaging and emotional etc' and then they attributed it to the wrong reason, to the strength of the writing. Then you've pointed out that they attributed it to the wrong reason and then said 'therefore the game can't have been emotional or engaging'

I mean you said people talked about 'about how engaging and emotional they are... Those people are WRONG'

Which is just ridiculously silly. Did they hallucinate being engaged? If someone mistakenly believes they had an emotional and engaging experience, doesn't that mean they've actually been engaged and emotionally moved? Are you really trying to argue that you have some divine power to know that people actually didn't like a game even if they said so.

Instead of taking the objective results and applying theory to understand them, you're taking theory and using them to deny the results that actually happened.



The most likely answer is that Heavy Rain style gameplay actually is incredibly engaging in a story sense to the extent that people will feel moved and engaged even if the actually story is rubbish. Even Yahtzee admitted the finger scene was incredibly powerful.

Which is sad when you think about it, (and I think you were talking about this right?) this tool is so powerful that it can make David Cage look like a good writer and yet only David Cage is the one exploring with it and experimenting with it. What would Heavy Rain have been like if someone actually good had written it? We know the answer because the gameplay was 10x worse in The Walking Dead, with less sophistication and power behind the QTE design, the linearity, the flexibility of the story, and it felt amazing because it was actually well written.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I just find it funny at how Cage yaps on and on about story and mature narratives but he's by far the LEAST qualified to talk about it. Another guy who's like this is Antoniades at Ninja Theory whose first attempt at writing a script by himself was just inept and boring. I have seen DOZENS of games that had stories more interesting, complex, deep, and emotionally evocative than Cage's. It's not like games are only NOW getting good narratives; they've had good stories for decades, but it now it's like designers are trying to pretend like the last 10-20 years of game narratives don't count. It's the equivalent of deciding that film history up to the fifties doesn't count. It's just so disrespectful and arrogant.

 

[Jazoni89]

I don't think anyone has truly praised Cage's writing. It's always been very hammy, even right at the beginning with Omikron.

I think what drives people to Cage's games, are the no hands barred subject matters, and the unique approach to storytelling, and the worlds he creates.

He's pretty much like the gaming equivalent to Willy Wonka, and he has his own strange trademark style (kinda like Tim Burton). That's probably the reason why his games have charm, even if it's not the best storytelling in the world.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

This thread made me realize that I have no idea what Beyond Two Souls is. I read the title and my brain begins uploading images of Dark Souls II.

Anyway David Cage. I never played Fahrenheit (Indego Prophecy since I'm an American) but I did play Heavy Rain. I played it through to the end once and did enough reading to know that I got the best ending...and no matter how many more times I play the killer will always be the same. That little road bump out of the way, I remember really being underwhelmed by Heavy Rain. The controls weren't terrible (at least they weren't before the Move integration...I assume). There are a handful of memorable set pieces but other than the finger-cutting, vaginal drilling, highway chase and, electrical maze I can't really remember much of the game at all. Nothing against Cage when it comes to the game being barely fun to play the first time but when it comes to the plot points and set pieces you can blame that on Cage. Then again, he was going for more of an emotional response...which he failed at since I really didn't care about any of the characters (whose names I have completely forgotten...unless there was a Zoe...also Jason because of the Mall section).

Completely uninterested in Beyond Two Souls and completely uninterested in the works of David Cage. Games are about fun and while I believe that games can be art, time has proven multiple times that high art just doesn't really work when your medium is video games.

 

[Shadowstar38]

So you personally think these games are shit? Good to know.

I just hope the OP was written with an air of sarcasm. Otherwise, telling people not to defend a game they enjoy is kind of pointless.

 

[King Billi]

The reasons I like Heavy Rain:

- I have no problem at all with the control scheme for this game, In fact I think it is a very unique and interesting style which isn't utilised in many games outside of those made by Quantic Dream.

- I find the motion capture and graphical quality very impressive, It certainly has some issues where it dips into the uncanny valley but for the most part it's quite stunning and I feel the folks responsible for it deserve credit.

- I find the atmosphere for much of this game to be genuinely engaging, the way it creates it's mood is admittedly very heavy handed in places but is still quite effective in my opinion. Specific chapters I would note would be the introduction of Norman Jayden at the crime scene, the introduction of Scott Shelby when he meets with Lauren Winter and the chapter with the two boys playing in the construction site.

- The music is excellent.

- I like the performances of the actors, both the good and hammy ones. Not just voice performances but also motion capture. I think that Scott Shelby and Lauren Winter were both incredibly well acted and I also find some of the more sketchy performances to be entertaining in a quirky kinda way(Norman Jayden referring to himself as "Nomman" for example).


I've never pointed to the writing or David Cage specifically as the reasons why I enjoyed this game and Fahrenheit(Indigo Prophecy) before it but I still enjoyed them for the reasons listed above as evidently alot of other people did as well.

You taking your petty little hatred of David Cage and acting as though thats the only justification you need to attack not only his games but the people who happen to enjoy them is ****ing insulting. "Those people are WRONG.", "Stop defending his games." Are you serious?

You can go on an on about bad writing and plot holes all you want but its quite clear that to you the problem is David Cage himself, it seems like you can barely stand the thought of this guy even existing let alone creating video games that certain people would have the gall to actually enjoy.
I'm seriously waiting now for you to reveal what hidden reason you have for hating David Cage so much... I'm thinking it has to be that you've discovered he's secretly some sadistic war criminal hiding under a false identity as a game designer to escape judgement for his crimes because frankly, just being arrogant and a bad writer dosen't cut it.

GET. OVER. IT.

 

[MammothBlade]

Both of these games have massive, terrible, incredibly stupid plot holes, and everything that is wrong with both Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain is tied directly to David Cage writing and directing those games. Even if we disregard the fact that a lot of us hate quicktime events, and the controls of the games, which are subjective criticisms, objectively speaking the games fail on the most basic levels of storytelling, and this is unforgivable for games whose primary, and only purpose is good story telling.

Now, are there games with worse stories out there? Yes, in fact, most video games have bad or even terrible stories, and plot holes, but that's really not the point here. The reason those games have bad stories usually is because the story is an afterthought, an excuse for the game mechanics. With Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain David Cage did his best trying to craft a good stories for his video games, almost completely sacrificing game mechanics to make way for his cinematic stories, and for all that work, the stories are still utter nonsense. This is why David Cage is one of the worst writers in the industry. He is given all the tools, everything he could possibly need or want to craft a good story, and that's all that's exacted from him, and yet he still fails all because he is a bad story teller.

I've the feeling that you like to moan about anything that doesn't make 100% sense. You have to use your imagination to fill in the gaps or you're missing the point.

He is a good writer in the sense that he makes his games work. He forges an atmosphere for the player to experience, visually, emotionally. It doesn't all have to add up on paper. He is a master of visceral storytelling, not necessarily cerebral. His technique is highly effective at what it's supposed to do.

Now can we please stop with the arrogant "YOU'RE WRONG!" and calm down a little bit?

 

[ShinyCharizard]

Well I certainly don't like his games. Crappy movies masquerading as games is what they are. Why bother when you can just watch a good movie instead.

 

[anthony87]

Sounds to me like someone just finished watching the last part of Super Best Friends Play Indigo Prophecy.

^_^

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Sounds to me like someone just finished watching the last part of Super Best Friends Play Indigo Prophecy.

^_^

Actually, I'm really behind on my youtube videos and just started watching that lets play today.

The reason for this thread is the fact that Beyond Two Souls is being released, and there are already threads about it on the escapist.

The two best friends lets play did however remind me that Indigo Prophecy is actually a thing, because I had blocked how bad it was from my mind for a really long time.

 

[The Madman]

I've only played Indigo Prophecy but while there's a ton of wasted potential, I'll also admit the descent into insanity that takes place about half-way through that games plot was pretty entertaining as well.

Frankly I'd say the game is worth playing for that beginning alone. The first half of the game is brilliant. Some fantastic supernatural crime thriller stuff and neat use of game mechanics... then it dive-bombs into lunacy, but that starting is still fantastic and totally worth playing. Just make up your own end to the story, y'know, like with Mass Effect.

 

[Lieju]

He annoys me so much!

But I'm glad he exists, it's nice to have different kinds of game-developers, and he is certainly distinctive, and I do think he is helping games develop as a medium, even if his games have a lot of missteps and are trying to be like movies.

I guess what really frustrates me, though, is that Fahrenheit and Heavy Rain could be great, they have so much potential, but they fail. I wish he'd team up with someone who can actually write a mystery. His writing is interesting for me, though, as a someone who is interested in writing mysteries, because it's intereresting seeing how they fail.

Fahrenheit is really funny, too.

I think a lot of people who like his games just haven't played anything like them before, so as there is little competition, their freshness and 'realism' seems greater than it is.

 

[Sepko]

In the case of people thinking that the games are good, they always point to the stories, and talk about how engaging and emotional they are, and how they're well written.

Those people are WRONG.

--//--

Stop defending his games.

"DON'T LIKE DAVID CAGE BECAUSE HE'S SHIT BECAUSE I SAID SO"

Yeah he's not the greatest at what he does, but what he does is certainly unique, and that can be enough for some people.

 

[Icehearted]

In an industry of awful writing, none of this comes as news to me. I've never played a video game with a story as good as even the worst books I've read, which isn't to say I've read many bad books. Comparably, the writing is very formulaic, derivative, poorly executed when compared to storytelling in other media. This is where I get conflicted personally, because the story is part of the game play in certain games and even genres, but at the same time, the game play or the story in and of themselves are often not enough to be at all self-0sustaining, thus the two work together to offset the poorest aspects of one another.

I could, just as easily, point out that without heavy personal interpretation, every Final Fantasy game has a story that's at least as bad as any of Cage's games. In fact pretty much all of them are bad. The best of them, in my opinion, Planescape Torment, really succeeded not because of it's story, but because of it's story combined with atmosphere, and the mythos it set up, all of which helped to offset what was otherwise kind of predictable, though certainly not as campy as a lot of JRPGs such as Final Fantasy.

Incidentally, this reminds me of when I first read up on the "Squall is dead" idea, and had that in fact been the true intention, had that in fact really been the case according the the game's writing team, it would have been, for me anyway, a stroke of genius. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the line between awesome and awful is hair thin,and this broke awesome and made awful it's mantra.

I digress.

David Cage is hardly the worst, he's not even below mediocre compared to others. Even Fahrenheit was better than most Final Fantasy, Black Isle, Bethesda games out there, sheerly on it's atmosphere and themes, even if the game lost it's mind around the final act. Likewise I want to point out that I actually enjoy his more contemporary if not stranger works. I thought Heavy Rain was just this side of silly, but at least it had some fairly good moments, and some reveals that had me thinking. I really enjoyed Omikron as well, again because it had more to it that a bland or bad story, and while it's parts were not so great, the sum of it's parts were actually not too bad if you went into it with the right sort of mindset, which is another way of saying keeping your expectations low and your mind open.

 

[Compatriot Block]

I already made a post in a different thread calling David Cage poison, so I'm right there with you.

I don't think the OP was seriously ordering people to stop enjoying it. Then again, you could make a thread on the Escapist like this about pretty much any topic and people would argue for the sake of it.

 

[Ishal]

Yeah, but it really isn't a bad thing. For every David Cage we have a Miyazaki or Chris Avellone who know how to make stories work in games in the opposite way that Cage does.

The thing about Cage is that I don't believe him when and if he professes his love for games. I think if he were given the opportunity to jump ship to "better" things, say movies, he'd be gone in a puff of smoke like in old Looney Toon's shows. But that's not likely to happen since as you've pointed out he's pretty bad. Doesn't matter though, because he has an audience. Some people like cinematic games and like having their feels and heartstrings be manipulated.

 

[SomebodyNowhere]

In spite of all its issues I enjoyed Indigo Prophecy. The writing might not have been incredible, but I most certainly was engaged in the experience and wanted to get as much out of it as I could. When I was playing through it a lot I did my best to achieve every fail state just to hear the various "I failed" monologues. I really need to go back and play it again some time.