David Cage is one of the worst writers in the industry

[BarbaricGoose]

I don't get it. Why do people care so much that other people like the things they like, and don't like the things they don't like? I assume there's some psychological reason behind it, but I'm not a psychologist, so...

I enjoyed Heavy Rain--thoroughly. I didn't notice any of the plot holes you speak of, except the blacking out. Yeah, that could've been done better, I guess. I just kind of assumed it was explained in one of the other 20-some endings.

 

[King Billi]

Hit my post a little harder, I still see some straw sticking out.

I take no issue with people liking things I don't. I take MASSIVE issue with people behaving as if their approval of a thing means it is above all criticism, and that anyone who would ever dare to speak ill of the thing they like are wrong by default.

And disagreeing with criticism doesn't mean you're throwing a tantrum. Sarcastically misrepresenting your opposition's arguments without providing a coherent counter-argument, however, is hardly in the realm of maturity. I notice that you haven't actually made any attempts to refute the criticisms made against Cage. Would you like to do so, or would you prefer to continue saying "I know you are, but what am I?"

I'm finding it difficult on this thread to distinguish between criticism for his games and criticism for Cage himself. He's such a polarising figure that alot of people just don't seem able to separate the man himself from what he's created.

I honestly have no intention of refuting your criticisms of Cage as I simply can't deny that he's made some arrogant and stupid comments. Those things just don't matter to me at all, I only care that he made a game that I like. Actually two games that I like. I think there's more to both of them than just plotholes and bad writing.

TheDrunkNinja here has made my point much better than I have and admirably he was also able to state it without losing his cool.

Jonathan Blow is an asshole. That's right, Jonathan Blow.

I don't think I could stand to be in the same room as him. He seems to be under the impression that his ideas and preferred design style are the only way video games should be made. He's wrong. However that doesn't mean I won't admit he contributes to the industry very unique intellectual properties that I rarely see in the rest of the medium. No, I don't care about what Jonathan Blow has to say about games, but I do like Braid. And that's enough to defend his presence in the gaming industry.

And here's where the point of that little tangent on Blow comes into play: the same goes for David Cage. I could care less if he thinks games should be more like movies or whatever issue people seem to have with him, the point is that I really don't see anything like Heavy Rain out on the market. The point is he contributes his own style of interactive media to the entire medium as a whole.

I don't care about what David Cage has to say about games, but I do like Heavy Rain. And that's enough for me.

Emotions on this thread are clearly running high as it is and I can see I've done my part to contribute to that. You have my opinion now so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

I agree to an extent. I admit that I enjoyed Heavy Rain, although not for the overall story. It had some neat and occasionally intense scenes and sequences, but put together it just doesn't flow well together and are just poorly written, and Indigo Prophecy was just awful.

While he's not the worst writer in the gaming industry, the fact that he's so highly regarded by several gaming websites as being a genius is frustrating, and his ego certainly doesn't help. Maybe just as a director he could be fine, as he knows how to make a very pretty-looking game, but I weary about anything he's written. As for Beyond: Two Souls, from the trailers and gameplay videos I think it looks fine, but I can say the same thing about Heavy Rain. I want it to be good, but I'm not very optimistic about it. At the very least it actually has English-speaking actors.

 

[gavinmcinns]

*

And to you I say, "JAY SUNNNN". But seriously though I agree with you. I played indigo prophecy when I was 12. I remember the first half of it being pretty cool, then the second half of it being absolutely mentally challenged garbage. Didn't bother with heavy rain because of my initial bad experience and it looked dumb as fuck too from the dozens of minutes i saw.

 

[Bat Vader]

From what I read on Cracked Indigo Prophecy was actually supposed to be a 12 part episodic game but the deadline was sped up. Source: http://www.cracked.com/article_20570_the-5-most-wtf-video-game-endings-all-time.html

While I agree that David Cage isn't that good of a writer the games that Quantic Dream makes are pretty fun. I really enjoyed the gameplay in Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain.

 

[MrBaskerville]

He defineately isn't the worst writer in the industry as there are plenty writers to choose from for that position but i agree that he is quite awful. Somebody should teach him to cut down on content, Heavy Rain was 6 hours longer than it needed to be and the story was absolutely ludicrous (The parade of serial killers was some of the most ridiculous i've seen in a supposed thriller). He wants to make movies, but if you compare his games to any movies he's really just making c-grade trash.

I admire that he's trying, but i really wish he was better or that he would atleast improve. Unfortunately the gaming world has had an aneurysm and for some reason he's hailed as some kind of genious... Perspective people!

Personally i think what he's trying to achieve would work better in a movie lenght format. If you want to emulate Seven, don't make an 8 hour long game, movies like that are usually 1 hour and 40 minutes for a reason. make a game that is 1 hour and 40 + an hour added because of the interactive parts, or something like that. Then it could be a bit more cohesive and straight to the poin while the interactive parts could have more impact. Less stupid red herring and less diaper changing. Next he should look at the tone of his work, i really hated how every second of Heavy Rain was dark and oppresive, it even contains a nonsensical segment where people are crying in the rain for no apparent reason. But you know, as any havk writer would tell you, art is all about death and crying!

 

[Matt King]

And that boys and girls is what we call an opinion. I thoroughly enjoy his games, so by your logic, because i like them, you're not allowed to hate them

 

[Alleged_Alec]

Hit my post a little harder, I still see some straw sticking out.

I take no issue with people liking things I don't. I take MASSIVE issue with people behaving as if their approval of a thing means it is above all criticism, and that anyone who would ever dare to speak ill of the thing they like are wrong by default.

The problem is that this thread is one giant ad hominem. "David Cage is bad, ergo: his games are bad." Plus the added insult against people liking them by you and a few others ("if you like them you have a bad taste in games", "you're WRONG for liking those games"). If you do stuff like this, then yes, you can expect people to call you out on your callous assholish bullshit.

And disagreeing with criticism doesn't mean you're throwing a tantrum. Sarcastically misrepresenting your opposition's arguments without providing a coherent counter-argument, however, is hardly in the realm of maturity. I notice that you haven't actually made any attempts to refute the criticisms made against Cage. Would you like to do so, or would you prefer to continue saying "I know you are, but what am I?"

Sorry, but you actually said, and I quote "and if you like them, you probably have bad taste.". Do you really expect that people don't get at least slightly annoyed over that? And don't blame them for having a thin skin, because it's a bullshit argument. If you're going to insult people, don't get all offended if they get angry with you.

And you can like something despite it flaws. For example: I really like the David Lynch's Dune film, and I like the Blade Runner film as well. Sure, those both have their flaws, and I won't argue against those. I will however, argue against people who say I shouldn't like those movies because of them, and saying about something which is inherently subjective that it is objectively bad.

 

[DarthAcerbus]

I know the Best Friends have been brought up already in this thread, but I would like to point out that they mentioned The Walking Dead as a game that did what David Cage wants to do a bajillion times better than David Cage ever did and they were COMPLETELY RIGHT. When compared to The Walking Dead, or Amnesia, or Outlast, or other gameplay-light story-heavy adventure games, Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain plummet to the bottom of the list. There is no defending them. You can enjoy them, sure. You're allowed to enjoy things. You can even enjoy them unironically (like I unironically still enjoy Naruto when it's not filler shut up). But you CANNOT say they are good games. They are terrible games, and most of the decisions that made them terrible can be directly attributed to David Cage.

 

[Foolery]

I don't care for Cage's games simply because they lack gameplay. I can put up with a terrible or ridiculous story. Like Metal Gear. The story is bananas half the time, but the gameplay is there.

 

[carnex]

David Cage might be bad writer, I wold argue about that.

But what I like about him is his will to go with his vision giving middle fingers left and right. And that is why his games are so compelling to people. That will and ability to follow your own vision of story, gameplay and what game can be even if it contradicts prevailing wisdom of the age is something special. And people who have that drive and ability generally produce something spectacular. It might be spectacularly bad, but it's still spectacular and demands to be experienced. Even if Omicron had bad fighting and worst shooting ever, people still remember that game as something unique, groundbreaking and dear to their hearts, to my heart. It's sad that in AAA industry he is something of a lone beacon of hope for true creativity these days.

 

[Berny Marcus]

Funny I thought most people play games for the gameplay, and not the story. That is why most games don't have that great stories, but it's ok we play them to have fun not gaze at the story like for a movie. If you do get a game for the story then that's cool. That being said. I find his writing to be meh at best, I played both Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain while they didn't revolutionize the gaming industry, they were pretty fun.

Compared to GTA's hammy writing, Cage could've written it better.

He is no Sam Lake of course, or Amy Henning.

Regarding Beyond: Two Souls, I honestly feel that game is a promotion for Ellen Paige, and I'm not that interested in getting it.

And to the OP, it's called opinions, if people like David Cage's mediocre writing, then why not? t's not hurtng you.

 

[zxvcasdfqwerzxcv]

I quite liked Fahrenheit (as it was called over here, no idea why they had a name change to Indigo Prophesy in the USA), it certainly wasn't the best written game ever, but not the worst either. The plot held along reasonably nicely until the final chapter or so. I'm quite a fan of Quantic Dream games. Omnikron was pretty amazing, if completely flawed at the same time. I like how ambitious and different games by Cage are. They don't hit the mark all the time, but I'm happy to indulge because it's so different from the usual blandness.

 

[Maphysto]

Hit my post a little harder, I still see some straw sticking out.

I take no issue with people liking things I don't. I take MASSIVE issue with people behaving as if their approval of a thing means it is above all criticism, and that anyone who would ever dare to speak ill of the thing they like are wrong by default.

And disagreeing with criticism doesn't mean you're throwing a tantrum. Sarcastically misrepresenting your opposition's arguments without providing a coherent counter-argument, however, is hardly in the realm of maturity. I notice that you haven't actually made any attempts to refute the criticisms made against Cage. Would you like to do so, or would you prefer to continue saying "I know you are, but what am I?"

I'm finding it difficult on this thread to distinguish between criticism for his games and criticism for Cage himself. He's such a polarising figure that alot of people just don't seem able to separate the man himself from what he's created.

I honestly have no intention of refuting your criticisms of Cage as I simply can't deny that he's made some arrogant and stupid comments. Those things just don't matter to me at all, I only care that he made a game that I like. Actually two games that I like. I think there's more to both of them than just plotholes and bad writing.

TheDrunkNinja here has made my point much better than I have and admirably he was also able to state it without losing his cool.

Jonathan Blow is an asshole. That's right, Jonathan Blow.

I don't think I could stand to be in the same room as him. He seems to be under the impression that his ideas and preferred design style are the only way video games should be made. He's wrong. However that doesn't mean I won't admit he contributes to the industry very unique intellectual properties that I rarely see in the rest of the medium. No, I don't care about what Jonathan Blow has to say about games, but I do like Braid. And that's enough to defend his presence in the gaming industry.

And here's where the point of that little tangent on Blow comes into play: the same goes for David Cage. I could care less if he thinks games should be more like movies or whatever issue people seem to have with him, the point is that I really don't see anything like Heavy Rain out on the market. The point is he contributes his own style of interactive media to the entire medium as a whole.

I don't care about what David Cage has to say about games, but I do like Heavy Rain. And that's enough for me.

Emotions on this thread are clearly running high as it is and I can see I've done my part to contribute to that. You have my opinion now so I'll just leave it at that.

Yeah, I guess I was getting a little abrasive there. It's just that whenever criticisms of certain things come up, there's always a contingent of people who refuse to brook any level of criticism against something they like, and I lose patience with that very quickly. Sorry, didn't mean to get all RARGH INTERNET ANGRY. Pax?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Yeah, Fahrenheit derailed astronomically halfway into the game. It was a pretty cool ride though.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Full disclosure: I did not finish Heavy Rain. I was not impressed much by the game. I did not play Indigo Prophesy.

First. I find Cage to be uninspired and uninspiring, but don't you think it is hyperbole to say he is one of the worst? Particularly in an industry that has actually released games like Duke Nukem Forever, Ride to Hell, Call of Duty, etc etc.

I mean, plot holes are bad, sure, but blatant misogyny, insipid faux-rebellion, and what could amount to pro-war propaganda if the writers even had the slightest amount of skill are certainly worse, aren't they? I see what you are saying about Heavy Rain, but plot holes are not the be-all end-all of writing. Intending to communicate insipid or stupid ideas to the player from the beginning is much worse.

Who knows? maybe over time Cage could get better and fix those plot holes he leaves lying around? But someone who simply does not even try is not worthy of any respect.

I think the opinion of him being the worst is really more in the context of "Worst person that's actually trying." Even then there's probably worse examples but I do believe there's a difference between something like Duke Nukem, that I don't think anyone can claim was an attempt at good storytelling, and something like Heavy Rain which is trying to be mature and deep.

 

[nathan-dts]

The guy writes well. He might write parts nonsensically, but everyone that plays his games get caught up in the story. The themes were there and they were great; "How far would you go to save someone you loved?" The mere fact that most people I know would do all those trials aside from killing the drug dealer is testament to his writing skills.

 

[Dalisclock]

I haven't played Heavy Rain(mostly because us PC gamers just aren't good enough to play it, apparently), but I did finish Indigo Prophecy. And I liked it....until around the point it skips a month and it feels we missed a massive amount of plot and character development that might have made all the creepy wierdness(invisible giant bugs, angels, etc) actually make sense and feel like some kind of pay off. I understand it ran out of time/money/cookies but so did Xenogears and at least they tried to deal with that by giving us the rest of the plot(even if they couldn't afford the gameplay to go with it).

So really, a lot of wasted potential.