David Cage: The Industry Will Die if it Doesn't Innovate

[Saucycarpdog]

honestly? the anti consumer bullshit from publishers is worth worrying over...stuff that affects the actual [i/]games[/i], not this crap

Could you specify which anti consumer things you're talking about? If you mean stuff like Project $10 or day one DLC, consumer's have shown they will still buy the games. And they don't have a huge impact on the games themselves. Just your wallet.

 

[Vault101]

honestly? the anti consumer bullshit from publishers is worth worrying over...stuff that affects the actual [i/]games[/i], not this crap

Could you specify which anti consumer things you're talking about? If you mean stuff like Project $10 or day one DLC, consumer's have shown they will still buy the games. And they don't have a huge impact on the games themselves. Just your wallet.

DRM, always online DRM, online passes and crap to combat trading in games,

doesnt affect the game? sort of

In ME3 there was a certain part of day 1 DLC that painfully and obviously belonged in the original game, on onehand they had to downplay that charachters role in the story so it wasnt "essentail"

on the other without it seemed you be missing out quite a bit

 

[ElPatron]

[quote/] Do the people that go to the cinema get together and make up a new name for them?

Indie film festivals and art film festivals[/quote]

Really? Because those shows aren't in any way the representation of the general demographic of people who watches films.

I am generalizing for a reason...

- indie film festivals: yeah, right. It's very specific.
- art film festivals: they only include 2 or 3 kinds of movies. You won't find people who watch Transformers 3 there

[quote/]Does everyone who listens to music get together to celebrate their culture?

....yes

concerts...particualy metal concerts, or many other genres..."metalheads", kind of silly since music is often interwined with culture[/quote]

How many Justin Bieber fans do you find in a Iron Maiden concert? How many Megadeth fans are amongst the crowd watching Beyoncee?

Concerts are not a good representation of everyone who owns a MP3 player or listens to radio in the car.

Going to the cinema is not a "culture". It's part of our culture to go to the movie theater but that doesn't mean anything.

Do people say "You listen to music? Me too! Let's celebrate!" when they meet each other? No. Because everyone does it. Having a MP3 player is part of our pop culture but the fact that you are part of the 99% of the hearing population who has ever listened to a song makes it hard to be a "culture of listening to music".

I know this doesn't sound right because any form of art is cultural. But enjoying it does not make you different and gives you no reason to celebrate.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Obvious to gaming "hipsters" like me, and has been for years.
To be fair, it's difficult to see those long-term burnouts approaching when everything was still growing...

 

[Vault101]

How many Justin Bieber fans do you find in a Iron Maiden concert? How many Megadeth fans are amongst the crowd watching Beyoncee?

hmmm..ok, let me try again

music and movies are very very large..where as gaming...while it is large (and getting larger) its more "niche" then those others mediums

and those othermediums have thier own "niches"
and those "niches" have their own...well "thing" I guess if you dont want to use the word culture

Hip hop/rap - obviously embedded in urban culture and all that

Metal- has its own following/culture in a way, people identify with it and have thier own "thing"

Art films- again a niche area

gaming "as a whole" (and as I said) I think is still rather niche...I doubt somone is talking about your mum who plays bejeweld when they say "gaming culutre" theyre talking about the enthusiasts

and even then you could divide it up even further

WOW- has its own culture

COD or online shooters- has its own thing

stuff like jargon and "in-jokes" and all that

 

[ElPatron]

How many Justin Bieber fans do you find in a Iron Maiden concert? How many Megadeth fans are amongst the crowd watching Beyoncee?

hmmm..ok, let me try again

music and movies are very very large..where as gaming...while it is large (and getting larger) its more "niche" then those others mediums

It's not. Anyone who can afford it plays videogames these days.

PSPs, PS2s, PS3s, Xboxes... Or even Angry Birds in the cellphone or Facebook games.

It's about as niche as beer.

Nothing what you just said makes any sense, and some of your sentences are just plain contradictory. It just seems like you have no concept what culture is, or what enjoying and celebrating it means.

Then let's do this the other way, *you* prove that gaming culture is actually "culture".

 

[Vault101]

It's not. Anyone who can afford it plays videogames these days.

PSPs, PS2s, PS3s, Xboxes... Or even Angry Birds in the cellphone or Facebook games.

It's about as niche as beer.
.

no..they don't...I'll say it again somone you call a gamer/geek/nerd enjoys games differencely to somone who is casual

 

[ElPatron]

It's not. Anyone who can afford it plays videogames these days.

PSPs, PS2s, PS3s, Xboxes... Or even Angry Birds in the cellphone or Facebook games.

It's about as niche as beer.
.

no..they don't...I'll say it again somone you call a gamer/geek/nerd enjoys games differencely to somone who is casual

Nothing what you just said makes any sense, and some of your sentences are just plain contradictory. It just seems like you have no concept what culture is, or what enjoying and celebrating it means.

Then let's do this the other way, *you* prove that gaming culture is actually "culture".

Easy:

Specifically, the term "culture" in American anthropology had two meanings: (1) the evolved human capacity to classify and represent experiences with symbols, and to act imaginatively and creatively; and (2) the distinct ways that people living in different parts of the world classified and represented their experiences, and acted creatively.

Gaming, in all it's various forms, encompasses distinctly all the definitions and "requirements" of what culture is. It is a continuously expanding, growing and developing form of art with it's own languages, sub-cultures, cliques and life cycles.

To call it anything but is, well, simply put, wrong, as the facts will show you.

I am putting you both side by side.

One tells me that "casuals" are not part of the culture (because they experience gaming differently), and the other gives me a broad definition that forces everyone to be included.

 

[ElPatron]

Just because you don't like the answers doesn't make them less true.

And people didn't like ME3 because it didn't have a happy ending. Yadda yadda you're already covering your ears and you will now most likely ignore any reasonable argument.

My points are:

- People don't celebrate the fact that they listen to radio or go to the movies.
- Unless you're some kind of cinephile or a hardcore connoisseur, you're a "casual"
- Therefore there is a huge contradiction in here.

Take a look at your definition of culture. Gaming is subculture. It's part of our culture.

But it's not a separate culture. Most people who play videogames don't live in the internet, cut off from society.

Remember the movie Hackers with Angelina Jolie? They shown a subculture of their own. They even had their own "cultural events" (such as going to a concert or watching a film).

Conclusion - gaming is a perfectly legit subculture with it's own ramifications, being a casual does not mean you're not part of gaming, gaming in general does not have any reason to be celebrated because looking back all I see was corporations trying to fuck with their costumers.

I have no problem with people that celebrate specific things about gaming. Retro, online, LAN, beat 'em up, fps, jrpgs, whatever. Gaming as a whole is just as a motive for celebration as... Hollywood?

 

[ElPatron]

Just because you don't like the answers doesn't make them less true.

- People don't celebrate the fact that they listen to radio or go to the movies.

As someone who has worked in both mediums, I can tell you that yes, people do celebrate both.

I bet they feel unique snowflakes.

- Unless you're some kind of cinephile or a hardcore connoisseur, you're a "casual"

"Unless you're black you're white", you're over simplifying things and willingly overlooking all the nuances that go into any kind of culture. It's like saying "unless you can paint the Mona Lisa, you're a "casual" doodler."

Somehow I feel like you do not understand the concept of rhetoric. Just because I arranged some words to portrait the feelings of other people does not mean I agree with it.

But it's not a separate culture. Most people who play videogames don't live in the internet, cut off from society.

Neither do most people who love movies live in the cinema, cut off from society. Or people who paint, or people who read or write, or people who play sports. You're applying narrow margins only to gaming.

No, I am not applying anything. I never said cinephiles live in the movie theater.

Would you please stop taking everything at face value? Or are you just trying to come up with things to disagree with me?

You're actually using a movie that people openly have called out as being utter bullshit in every sense of the word as an example?

So because it's fiction my point is completely null? Who cares about if it's true or not?

You do know that gamers have their own cultural events? Film enthusiasts have their own cultural events. Radio has it's own celebrations and events, as do artists, athletes and every form of expression and art, so why do you cut off gaming as something that can't qualify? Your argument makes no sense, because you have nothing to back it up with other than "because I said so".

You have officially misunderstood everything I said, and truth be told I am pretty much convinced you did it on purpose.

 

[ElPatron]

You have officially misunderstood everything I said, and truth be told I am pretty much convinced you did it on purpose.

Well then, sir, you better start making sense. Because if people can't understand what you're trying to say (even when you try and dodge behind rhetoric)

I'm not hiding behind anything if I have been paraphrasing what other people have posted in here.

Or maybe it's the YouTube Argument Syndrome. Nobody will read what the hell was going on and just parachute into a discussion.

then the problem is in your argument.

Or the problem is the fact that you have conveniently ignored my defense of videogames as part of our culture (which includes the so-called "cultural events").

From the wiki itself:
1- The arts, customs, and habits that characterize a particular society or nation.
2- The beliefs, values, behaviour and material objects that constitute a people's way of life.

I find it hard to believe that there is any country where people play games or do game related things 24/7, while having a system of beliefs based on interactive fiction.

Videogames are not an airtight hobby.

 

[ElPatron]

I take that back, it's not your argument that's the problem. It's just you. Nobody can be that dense, not even when they're trying (poorly) to be funny.

Says the person that prefers to openly insult me and imply that I am trying to be funny.

It seems that the problem is yours, brah. Stop antagonizing people on the internet because you disagree with them.