Street fighter player here. Although I have not yet witnessed an actual button masher fighting game this gen, I'd have to say that Tekken is the least button mashing game out of the entire bunch. So that last sentence unfortunately makes me doubt this specific review's credibility a bit. Not that it really matters though, as I won't be touching DOA5 with a ten-foot pole anyway.
Up, sorry. But no. This is not a time for, "L2P" advice. I have played Tekken 6 online and can say it's sucks alot. When a player essentially spams the same combo that continues to bounce the opponent again and again, that is not skill. That is exploiting a system. Especially if there is nothing you can do to retaliate. The next best game I can think of that can counter "spam a combo" tactic of current fighting games was Tatsunoko X Capcom. Where you can spend a power meter to force the opponent to stop their combo. Spamming unstoppable combos, once they start, does not make you a better fighter, just one exploiting a weakness in game mechanic. Unless you like watching your avatar/fighter take hits with no method of retaliation.
It's not L2P advice, it's simple basic advice on what it takes to play a fighting game.
Anyway, exploiting a system? First off, to get hit by the same combo that bounces you repeatedly you have to do one thing, get hit. Of course, it's not possible to simply not get hit regardless of your skill level but if your opponent is that obvious in their set ups (especially if they're using "the same combo" then why is it their fault when you keep getting hit by it? The more you play, the more you learn when to press buttons and when not to press buttons. Secondly, how is playing the game the way it's meant to be played exploiting the system? You may not like the way Tekken plays and that's cool, but it doesn't make the game "suck" and it certainly doesn't make the actual mechanics of the game exploits.
Either way, no combo is unstoppable in any fighting game. The continuing hits of a combo are unstoppable, sure, but that's what makes it a combo. And this happens in every single fighting game, from Tekken to Street Fighter to DOA. Some games do have combo breaker mechanics, but no good games have them in unlimited supply.
I can't say I'm overly impressed with this review. Opinions I disagreee with aside, there's just something lacking in the writing. There's no snap or style to it, it reads just like the sort of review one would do for a personal website 15 years ago, right down to the markedly clear rating categories. It is, however, always nice to actually see a fighting game review on The Escapist by someone who does seem to have some grasp on the genre.
Icehearted said:
ObsidianJones said:
... Tekken style button mashing.
Wow.
Just.. ok. I will not call the reviewers' gaming pedigree into question. I will just take future reviews with a grain of salt.
Bah! I remember spending weeks playing Tekken 2 and 3, learning every nuance, every combo, every juggle, everything, I even mastered some of the less friendly characters. Then I watched all I knew be undone by kids that just mashed buttons. They say to be the best means even being able to defeat a button masher, I say untrue. I blame the games for that shortcoming though, something wrong with a game that practically plays itself for you if you just push buttons really fast. DOA or any game with a good combo/counter system is better, but I understand how you feel. Tekken's combo system was better, but the counter system was never as deep (DOA is a fast counter bonanza, Tekken felt like a stuffy Judo class they way they handled it).
This just sounds like you fell into one of the most common traps when it comes to learning fighting games, especially ones with the sort of up front complexity of Tekken. You see a move list or a bunch of fancy combos (not helped by most fighting games calling impractical combo practice by the name of training) and you develop the mindset that that's all there is to the game. Then, when faced with an actual human opponent who fights back and, especially in the case of a button masher, possibly does some pretty erratic things, none of what you trained yourself to do works. That's not a fault of the game, a lack of depth or being too masher friendly, it's a lack of real skill and knowledge in you the player. Playing fighting games at anything above a beginners level is as much about playing your opponent and their character as it is about being able to do things with your own. Put simply, if you were really as good and knowledgable as you thought you were, you wouldn't lose to someone who was just mashing or spamming moves. This goes for Tekken, Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, KOF, etc. Basically, any well designed modern fighter and most of the old ones too.
You make a good argument, but that wasn't quite what happened. My moves were not merely rigid combos or predefined methods, I don't believe I was thinking in a linear way about this. I tried to stay flexible, to improvise, but I was roundly beaten regardless of knowing which punches were faster or attacks had more range, or having near computer perfect timing with my counters. I genuinely believe I didn't over-think things or over complicate my techniques. Maybe I did miss something, I don't know, but it was a hell of a thing to experience. I learned more than anything that a more basic RPS style game was better balanced, largely because you can't get away with that nearly as well. Tiger/Eddy demonstrates the problem I have with the series perfectly. Yes, it takes skill and practice to really know what you are doing, but hand anyone a stick and they'll look like a combo-busting pro to the untrained eye. Can't do that with Street Fighter II or KOF, and to a lesser extend DOA (though admittedly it's easier with 2D than 3D imo).
Honestly my idea of the perfect 3D fighter is still Soul Calibur and Soul Calibur 2. This is merely a preference on my part though.
Point taken (Tekken? heh). Tekken is a beast to learn how to play because so much of actual success in the game does come from learning both your characters and your opponents characters. I've been playing the series since Tekken 2 and still find myself getting caught by stuff I just hadn't seen before because I don't play the characters I'm playing against. I can't even imagine what it's like to a new player to pick up, say, Tekken Tag 2 and be faced with learning a game of Tekken's depth AND a roster of 50ish characters.
You're quite right about what mashing does get you, at least on a visual level, in Tekken (or most 3D fighters for that matter). I've never understood why people talk about mashing out moves in SF or KOF. It doesn't work and, more importantly for inexperienced players or learning players, it doesn't even look cool. At least in Tekken or Soul Calibur you can get some sweet looking stuff to come out just by hitting random buttons. And, due to the variance in move sets through a huge roster and all of the defensive options in Tekken, you may find some level of success especially if you are playing a character like Eddy and are playing someone who doesn't at least partially know the character. In SC, you'll still get the cool looking stuff but defense is much simpler and punishes are often much more obvious so you'll find a lot less success with it.
A difference of preference it may be, but /fistbump on the mention of Soul Calibur 2. I'm not a huge fan of the SC series but I do/did love that one.
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