Destiny Review - World of Chorecraft

Jimothy Sterling

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Destiny Review - World of Chorecraft

A solid, but thoroughly unimaginative MMO hybrid shooter.

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Fappy

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I was afraid it would turn out like this. I'm glad I decided to give it a pass until the reviews rolled in. I've also heard the campaign is way too short.
 

SnakeoilSage

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So a solid foundation of bedrock with little in the way of flair. Certainly not worth the ridiculous records it purports to be breaking, but that's what happens when people buy into the hype well ahead of the scouts (i.e. the critics) to give the OK and sound the charge.
 

Uriain

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A pretty spot on review in my opinion. I am currently lvl 13 moving through Venus and am having fun, but its not as "epic" as I had imagined it would be. The 'Halo roots' really show in the design/handle of both the Guardian and its enemies. Even though this isn't a 'blow your socks off' game, I am still having a fun time with it though, and enjoy playing with friends which (imo) makes the mission structure more enjoyable, as does the difficulty option.

The Crucible is the series strong suit though, bringing back that strong Halo MP combat feel which I have always enjoyed.

The DLC has a chance to revitalize its singleplayer aspect with more quests/levels and weapons, and I think we can all hope for more Multiplayer maps/game types. I personally want to see the return of the racing game type from Halo :p
 

BlackMageBob

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Matches my experience so far. Good, solid combat, and not a whole lot else. I'll probably keep enjoying it, but it doesn't live up to the hype.
 

TorchofThanatos

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It is a good game and I am having fun but the lack of any story is so annoying. All the story is given through speeches spoken your ghost. Bungie, your world is silent. Your world and envirmoent don't tell us a story. It it weird that I am wishing for cut scenes in a video game? Give me some context to anything that I am doing. Oh well, still a fun game but no world building means that I am really not invested in it. Beat the game and then see how much longer I keep playing it.
 

kajinking

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Sounds fair, not a "believe the hype" (ugh) game but a solid little outing. Interesting that it's less Borderlands and more WOW meets Halo I really did not expect that based on what I saw in previews. I might try it some day but in the meantime if I want to murder random crap across the solar system as a gun-wielding warrior with magic techno powers I'll stick to Warframe.
 

Furioso

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I felt your criticism of the specific words to be kind of odd, but then again I'm sure you play way more games than I do so I guess I can see words like that becoming cringe worthy. Otherwise the review seems to match up with other things I've been hearing, maybe I'll rent it at some point.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Well, glad the Glacier PS4 bundle I ordered came with more than just this game. I only wanted it so I could play with friends who were also going to get it, so I never expected the story to draw me in much. Real shame about how they wasted Perter. He has a great voice and as Jim said can be VERY charismatic.

What little I saw of him watching other people playing the game so far shows he's doing exactly what Jim says. Playing a mechanical role, not a character.

Oh well, like Yahtzee said, anything can be fun when done with other people. When I pick up my PS4 I'll play it with my friends and move onto something else when they can't join me.

Thanks for the review Jim. Hope people don't go ape on you like they did when you reviewed Titianfall. ;p
 

laggyteabag

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6/10? Well, that is about what I expected, but I had hoped for better to come from a studio like Bungie, especially with the much funding. It is pretty disappointing to hear that the game is nowhere near as good as people have made it out to be, but I guess that some companies just cannot keep their winning streak forever. It seems that Activision really bought into the Bungie hype, and got bit in the ass for it, and whilst it is a shame for both companies, and I do hope that Bungie don't face the wrath of the almighty devil that is Bobby Kotic, but Activision have been more than happy to put up with average games over the last few years so it shouldn't really matter *ba dum tsssh*.

Anywho, good review, and I am super glad that I didn't just buy into the hype.
 

myke66

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Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.

The story was not meant to be the main focal point of the game. Anyone who played D3 should understand the concept of Destiny. It's not about a long campaign like Halo was, it was about creating a world and setting where you will be playing in over and over. The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.

Any review that isnt taking this into account doesn't understand what Destiny is, and frankly shouldnt be writing reviews.

Dont get me wrong, Destiny has its flaws. Lack of matchmaking for story/public missions, lack of social features, slow pacing regarding loot while leveling up. But these are patchable items, growing pains if you will for any new MMO. This should also be remembered and talked about while reviewing the game, it doesnt end at the content on the disc, Bungie has already stated its intentions for updates and new (free) content. This may be a new concept for console users, but pretty standard for PC gaming.

All in all I personally would give Destiny an 8/10, with the caveat that most of the glaring issues are going to be worked out via patches.
 

Vigormortis

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What's been fascinating me most about this game release is the disparity in the critiques. Or rather, the double standards some critics have been showing. And my point of reference is Titanfall.

Titanfall - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 3/10
Destiny - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 9/10

I just....don't get it.

Anyway, relatively spot on review compared to my experience so far. But after only a short time playing the game online I find myself yearning to return to one of my other current go-to online PvP or Co-op games. I'd just rather play something else rather than sit for any length of time in Destiny.

It seems to me almost like Bungie has lost their "spark"; their creativity. It sounds cliche but Destiny just feels soulless.

Perhaps future content updates can remedy this. I don't know.
 

myke66

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Vigormortis said:
What's been fascinating me most about this game release is the disparity in the critiques. Or rather, the double standards some critics have been showing. And my point of reference is Titanfall.

Titanfall - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 3/10
Destiny - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 9/10

I just....don't get it.

Anyway, relatively spot on review compared to my experience so far. But after only a short time playing the game online I find myself yearning to return to one of my other current go-to online PvP or Co-op games. I'd just rather play something else rather than sit for any length of time in Destiny.

It seems to me almost like Bungie has lost their "spark"; their creativity. It sounds cliche but Destiny just feels soulless.

Perhaps future content updates can remedy this. I don't know.
You explained the reasoning for your feeling in your opening remarks. "A short time playing". The game fleshes itself out the longer you play. I challenge you to come back here after you have completed the first Strike on the Moon and see if your feels are the same. I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.

This is my main gripe with this review, the thing reads like the author never even reached max level to see all the game has to offer.
 

Right Hook

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myke66 said:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.
You have 2 posts. You joined today. This community totally values your input.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Vigormortis said:
What's been fascinating me most about this game release is the disparity in the critiques. Or rather, the double standards some critics have been showing. And my point of reference is Titanfall.

Titanfall - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 3/10
Destiny - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 9/10
But, Destiny isn't really competing with Titanfall. The only thing that really connects them is that they are both science fiction FPS games where you shoot stuff. Apart from that, can you really say that Destiny is in the same vein as Titanfall?

That's like comparing an FPS like STALKER to Call of Duty because they both have Russians. They really aren't compatible.
 

Calabi

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myke66 said:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.

The story was not meant to be the main focal point of the game. Anyone who played D3 should understand the concept of Destiny. It's not about a long campaign like Halo was, it was about creating a world and setting where you will be playing in over and over. The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.

Any review that isnt taking this into account doesn't understand what Destiny is, and frankly shouldnt be writing reviews.

Dont get me wrong, Destiny has its flaws. Lack of matchmaking for story/public missions, lack of social features, slow pacing regarding loot while leveling up. But these are patchable items, growing pains if you will for any new MMO. This should also be remembered and talked about while reviewing the game, it doesnt end at the content on the disc, Bungie has already stated its intentions for updates and new (free) content. This may be a new concept for console users, but pretty standard for PC gaming.

All in all I personally would give Destiny an 8/10, with the caveat that most of the glaring issues are going to be worked out via patches.
Your not employed by Activision are you? Good first post though, got to get in with the "Oh it gets good after 20 hours caveat." You should have known that Jim, for shame. Games arent meant to be enjoyed from the start anymore, they arent meant to be judged on what they are NOW anymore. You've got to judge them on there potential and there future content, and that the grinding and doing the same thing over and over gets fun somehow after lots of hours.
 

themilo504

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So a incredibly expensive and hyped game didn?t deliver on its promise and potential, that?s pretty much been this year in a nutshell, thankfully smash bros is probably going to be good so this year won?t be a complete disappointment.
 

TiberiusEsuriens

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Uriain said:
The DLC has a chance to revitalize its singleplayer aspect with more quests/levels and weapons, and I think we can all hope for more Multiplayer maps/game types. I personally want to see the return of the racing game type from Halo :p
I think that's the worst part though. They've repeatedly stated that they will be supporting the game with extensive DLC for years. At first it sounds like they're actually investing in their player base, but the entire SP game is so short that what they are really doing is forcing the players to invest in them. They are holding the majority of the core SP game ransom.
 

myke66

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Calabi said:
myke66 said:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.

The story was not meant to be the main focal point of the game. Anyone who played D3 should understand the concept of Destiny. It's not about a long campaign like Halo was, it was about creating a world and setting where you will be playing in over and over. The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.

Any review that isnt taking this into account doesn't understand what Destiny is, and frankly shouldnt be writing reviews.

Dont get me wrong, Destiny has its flaws. Lack of matchmaking for story/public missions, lack of social features, slow pacing regarding loot while leveling up. But these are patchable items, growing pains if you will for any new MMO. This should also be remembered and talked about while reviewing the game, it doesnt end at the content on the disc, Bungie has already stated its intentions for updates and new (free) content. This may be a new concept for console users, but pretty standard for PC gaming.

All in all I personally would give Destiny an 8/10, with the caveat that most of the glaring issues are going to be worked out via patches.
Your not employed by Activision are you? Good first post though, got to get in with the "Oh it gets good after 20 hours caveat." You should have known that Jim, for shame. Games arent meant to be enjoyed from the start anymore, they arent meant to be judged on what they are NOW anymore. You've got to judge them on there potential and there future content, and that the grinding and doing the same thing over and over gets fun somehow after lots of hours.

He should have, you're right. Thats why Bungie had the review embargo up, for this exact reason.

Please don't get my comments twisted, i'm not saying Destiny is a perfect game, but it still deserves a fair review for the type of game it is.
 

Vigormortis

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myke66 said:
You explained the reasoning for your feeling in your opening remarks. "A short time playing". The game fleshes itself out the longer you play. I challenge you to come back here after you have completed the first Strike on the Moon and see if your feels are the same. I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.

This is my main gripe with this review, the thing reads like the author never even reached max level to see all the game has to offer.
Your projecting a bias onto me that I don't have, or you didn't understand the context of my post. I didn't say I've only played it for a very small stint and stopped. I played it for hours with my friend and it failed to hook me. Even as our characters gained levels, skills, weapons, etc, the fun factor never increased. At that point it feels like a very standard MMO-grind-fest. Hell, many reviews have even been saying as much; and that includes high-level characters. Even the end game sounds barren. (though the friend-only raids might remedy this)

So what I was saying was: after sinking some decent time into the game, further visits to Destiny's world aren't appealing.

In the future, please don't immediately jump to the conclusion that someone with a differing opinion to yours just hasn't "dedicated" themselves enough to the material. And unless something drastic changes with the game, my "feels" will remain the same.

Besides, if a game basically says, "This game isn't fun at all until you've already sunk dozens or hundreds of hours into it.", then it's a terrible game. It's one of the primary reasons I have stayed the hell away from MMOs like World of Warcraft. It makes me cringe every time someone says to me, "You have to keep at it! The game gets fun at level 70!"

No. Fuck that.
 

DTWolfwood

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The confirmation bias i have right now is overwhelming. I want to say "I told you so," so bad. But that doesn't help anyone.

Maybe it comes with age, I'm beginning to see a lot of over hyped games these days are based on gimmicks that hook you in at first, but after a few hours of gameplay you realize just how vapid the experience really is. Titanfall is guilty of this. It's also beginning to look like EVOLVE will fall into the same category (Also not liking the fact they will DLC the fuck out of that game.)

Perhaps age hardens you to the corruption of marketing, or maybe you just become way more cynical, but everyone need to temper their expectations. Don't let the PR and Marketing departments fool you. Low expectations can only mean you'll be pleasantly surprised if something does become great. You'll never be disappointed.

Jim, sorry about all the people claiming you are hating it only because everyone else loves it bullshit that has already been flung your way.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??

The darkness is, by far, the most generic name any species could ever come up with. Disgusting waste of creativity. Wtf happened to, i dunno, actually thinking? With their brain? At all? And what the bloody fuck does that giant floating death st...er, ping pong ball do?? Does it kick any ass?!
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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I guess it just goes to show: The Bungie that brought us Myth and Myth II is long-since dead. All we have now is some team wearing their skin and using their name for it's marketing clout. And here I was clinging to the hopes that Halo being so lackluster was mostly the fault of Microsoft being too over-bearing and forcing changes on the game for the sake of marketability over quality.
 

Vigormortis

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Soviet Heavy said:
But, Destiny isn't really competing with Titanfall. The only thing that really connects them is that they are both science fiction FPS games where you shoot stuff. Apart from that, can you really say that Destiny is in the same vein as Titanfall?

That's like comparing an FPS like STALKER to Call of Duty because they both have Russians. They really aren't compatible.
Oh, I'm not. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying they're competing for the same audience. I'm not saying they're "compatible". I know they're completely different games.

What I was saying was, the same criticisms that were levied against Titanfall, of which significantly lowered it's "score" for some critics, are also being levied against Destiny, but have had an almost negligible effect on the overall rating.

I know they're two completely different games. It just seemed...odd to me that some critics aren't aware of the double standard in their criticisms. Made doubly odd by so many gamers drawing parallels between the two games.[footnote]Which we both agree is odd in and of itself)[/footnote]

Granted, that sentiment seems to be in the minority, so in the end it doesn't really matter. It was just an observation.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Vigormortis said:
Soviet Heavy said:
But, Destiny isn't really competing with Titanfall. The only thing that really connects them is that they are both science fiction FPS games where you shoot stuff. Apart from that, can you really say that Destiny is in the same vein as Titanfall?

That's like comparing an FPS like STALKER to Call of Duty because they both have Russians. They really aren't compatible.
Oh, I'm not. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying they're competing for the same audience. I'm not saying they're "compatible". I know they're completely different games.

What I was saying was, the same criticisms that were levied against Titanfall, of which significantly lowered it's "score" for some critics, are also being levied against Destiny, but have had an almost negligible effect on the overall rating.

I know they're two completely different games. It just seemed...odd to me that some critics aren't aware of the double standard in their criticisms. Made doubly odd by so many gamers drawing parallels between the two games.[footnote]Which we both agree is odd in and of itself)[/footnote]

Granted, that sentiment seems to be in the minority, so in the end it doesn't really matter. It was just an observation.
The thing about Destiny getting major marks off for its boring story is because that's a significant part of the game. Like I said in another thread, one of the selling features of the game was supposed to be this rich, engrossing, encyclopedia's worth of narrative content. It's obvious that Bungie and Activision wanted people to care about this game's world, and that it is so generic just makes the disappointment sting more.

Titanfall has a barebones story, but people aren't really playing Titanfall for its story. It was built as a multiplayer affair foremost, and that is what it delivers on.
 

laggyteabag

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Vigormortis said:
myke66 said:
You explained the reasoning for your feeling in your opening remarks. "A short time playing". The game fleshes itself out the longer you play. I challenge you to come back here after you have completed the first Strike on the Moon and see if your feels are the same. I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.

This is my main gripe with this review, the thing reads like the author never even reached max level to see all the game has to offer.
Your projecting a bias onto me that I don't have, or you didn't understand the context of my post. I didn't say I've only played it for a very small stint and stopped. I played it for hours with my friend and it failed to hook me. Even as our characters gained levels, skills, weapons, etc, the fun factor never increased. At that point it feels like a very standard MMO-grind-fest. Hell, many reviews have even been saying as much; and that includes high-level characters. Even the end game sounds barren. (though the friend-only raids might remedy this)

So what I was saying was: after sinking some decent time into the game, further visits to Destiny's world aren't appealing.

In the future, please don't immediately jump to the conclusion that someone with a differing opinion to yours just hasn't "dedicated" themselves enough to the material. And unless something drastic changes with the game, my "feels" will remain the same.

Besides, if a game basically says, "This game isn't fun at all until you've already sunk dozens or hundreds of hours into it.", then it's a terrible game. It's one of the primary reasons I have stayed the hell away from MMOs like World of Warcraft. It makes me cringe every time someone says to me, "You have to keep at it! The game gets fun at level 70!"

No. Fuck that.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head there. If a game doesn't interest me in the first few hours, then why should I have the patience to slog through the rest of it. Many games have fallen to this, and the promise of a better game later down the line isn't enough to justify spending more time playing a game that isn't overly satisfying to begin with. In most cases the game will still be the same later down the line than it is now, and if the story isn't overly compelling or told very well to begin with, there isn't going to be some huge payoff at the end, so there is very little point continuing.
 

Laughing Man

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All in all I personally would give Destiny an 8/10, with the caveat that most of the glaring issues are going to be worked out via patches.
Please don't get my comments twisted, i'm not saying Destiny is a perfect game, but it still deserves a fair review for the type of game it is.
Interesting you state he should review it fairly, well he did that he reviewed it based on the game he had in front of him, on the other hand your review ended with a score based on a caveat that the game gets fixed with DLC updates, so which of the two reviews is actually the most fair? The lower score based on the game in hand or the higher score based on the assumption that it will be fixed at a later date with updates? Of more interest is given that you gave it an 8 out of 10 on the basis that it gets fixed what score would you give it in it's current state?

He should have, you're right. Thats why Bungie had the review embargo up, for this exact reason.
Lol, agreeing with the sarcasm, that's brilliant and a review embargo doesn't scream we are going to make the game better at some point in the future please don't pre judge it, it screams we aren't sure the game is as good as we have been claiming it to be and blocking pre release reviews is the only way to protect our day one sales.

I'll be honest I have no interest in this game what so ever, everything I've seen of the game registered as meh with a little bit of oh that kinda looks like Borderlands (a game I love) thrown in. Jim's review at least confirms that it isn't anything like Borderlands but it also confirms everything else, the game is meh! and after reading one or two things about it it seems very very expensive meh! It's a Steam Christmas sale purchase two years down the line when it is being sold for £5.
 

Davroth

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Some people in here need to remember that a 6/10 from Jim Sterling isn't a bad rating.

Good, but flawed, I believe is how he put it once. So yeah. If you feel like anything below 8/10 is crap, well, that's on you. That's you internalizing the way big news sites give out scores to generate hype. I for one am glad that Jim doesn't play that game.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The average score for video games should be around 5. Maybe just a tad more.
Currently it is around 7...
That is not right.
 

Vigormortis

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Soviet Heavy said:
The thing about Destiny getting major marks off for its boring story is because that's a significant part of the game. Like I said in another thread, one of the selling features of the game was supposed to be this rich, engrossing, encyclopedia's worth of narrative content. It's obvious that Bungie and Activision wanted people to care about this game's world, and that it is so generic just makes the disappointment sting more.

Titanfall has a barebones story, but people aren't really playing Titanfall for its story. It was built as a multiplayer affair foremost, and that is what it delivers on.
Heh. We're actually fairly in line in terms of our thinking on this. And I agree with your statement entirely.

But that was my point in the previous post. Most people didn't really expect a complex narrative from Titanfall, but that didn't stop some from viewing a lack of one upon release as a major strike against the game. A failing that couldn't be outweighed by any other aspect of the game. Yet, when they expect a complex narrative from Destiny, but end up with shallow rubbish, it's just sort of excused because, "At least PvP is fun!"

That's what I was getting at.

And again, it seems to be an opinion that is in the minority, so it's not really something I'll be dwelling on.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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myke66 said:
The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.
In that case I agree, it's definitely not worth 6/10. If you have to play it for twenty hours before it gets good, then it's more like a 4/10.
 

Andy Shandy

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Sounds about right, from everything I've heard about it. Bit of a shame really, especially considering the money and the development team behind it. Ah well.
 

Vigormortis

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Laggyteabag said:
Pretty much hit the nail on the head there. If a game doesn't interest me in the first few hours, then why should I have the patience to slog through the rest of it. Many games have fallen to this, and the promise of a better game later down the line isn't enough to justify spending more time playing a game that isn't overly satisfying to begin with. In most cases the game will still be the same later down the line than it is now, and if the story isn't overly compelling or told very well to begin with, there isn't going to be some huge payoff at the end, so there is very little point continuing.
Precisely my point.

I'm all for a game getting better over time. I love seeing a game expand and grow as the developer and community contribute to it.

However, if I have to wait for those contributions to come around before the game becomes fun...

Yeah, no. I will flatly refuse to devote any time to a game that doesn't have some degree of "fun" to it from the outset. This is doubly so for narrative-driven games and competitive online games.[footnote](I would not have devoted hundreds of hours of play time to, nor worked my way up to doing amateur and pro-level scrims in, Left 4 Dead 2 and Dota 2 had they not been fun to me from the outset.)[/footnote]

Now I will freely admit that some of the gun-play in Destiny is fun. However, it's not quite fun enough for me to want to devote any time to it's seemingly barren world.

Once the (promised) end-game content starts rolling out maybe that'll change. But as it is: It'll be a fun game to occasionally play with friends, but not really one I plan to visit often.

And really, I think that's what a lot of people were expecting. So all-in-all I imagine it's lived up to the expectations of many.
 

Fsyco

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Charcharo said:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The average score for video games should be around 5. Maybe just a tad more.
Currently it is around 7...
That is not right.
That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.

Of course, that's assuming you normalize the distribution of scores so that, by definition, 5 is in the middle, which means you have to compare it to other games, which is a bit of an issue if you have a big glut of shit games, since games have certain objective indicators of quality (technical stuff, like how it performs and controls). I have no idea how you'd factor in objective AND comparitive, subjective stuff into calculating a single score.

In short: Making a decent scoring system is hard and complex. Personally, I vote to scrap it all together since I, like Yahtzee, believe opinions cannot be properly expressed by a single number, but alot of people seem to like them and want to keep them, so we're stuck with the system we have.
 

MonkeyPunch

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myke66 said:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.

The story was not meant to be the main focal point of the game. Anyone who played D3 should understand the concept of Destiny. It's not about a long campaign like Halo was, it was about creating a world and setting where you will be playing in over and over. The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.

Any review that isnt taking this into account doesn't understand what Destiny is, and frankly shouldnt be writing reviews.

Dont get me wrong, Destiny has its flaws. Lack of matchmaking for story/public missions, lack of social features, slow pacing regarding loot while leveling up. But these are patchable items, growing pains if you will for any new MMO. This should also be remembered and talked about while reviewing the game, it doesnt end at the content on the disc, Bungie has already stated its intentions for updates and new (free) content. This may be a new concept for console users, but pretty standard for PC gaming.

All in all I personally would give Destiny an 8/10, with the caveat that most of the glaring issues are going to be worked out via patches.
So what you're essentially saying is that you'd give it an 8 out of 10 for something it may or may not do..? Maybe?
You need to remember that Jim is reviewing the game as it is and not reading in to the future (thank god) and playing a guessing game or reading a magical ball.
You could apply your statement to a lot of games. SiN Episodes ring a bell? Promised episodes which never materialised. Not saying Destiny won't have any DLC but you cannot review a game based on what may or may not be, maybe, as promised, potentially etc.
Totally ignoring the fact that if I buy a game I want it to be good without the DLC. You can review the DLC when it comes out. This product is sold as-is and needs to be reviewed as such.

Secondly you seem to magically know what the developers intended.
Not only that but you're criticising the reviewer for playing the game how he wanted and chose to play it. "You're doing it wrong! Play it like this!". Naw man.
Destiny is what it is, not what you think it should be and Jim isn't going to review the game with your delusions as a consideration.

Also listen to the Giant Bombcast [http://www.giantbomb.com/podcasts/]. Bunch of them have a fairly similar opinion and gripes about Destiny. (they start talking about it a couple of minutes in)
 

Barbas

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Oct 28, 2013
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myke66 said:
Vigormortis said:
What's been fascinating me most about this game release is the disparity in the critiques. Or rather, the double standards some critics have been showing. And my point of reference is Titanfall.

Titanfall - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 3/10
Destiny - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 9/10

I just....don't get it.

Anyway, relatively spot on review compared to my experience so far. But after only a short time playing the game online I find myself yearning to return to one of my other current go-to online PvP or Co-op games. I'd just rather play something else rather than sit for any length of time in Destiny.

It seems to me almost like Bungie has lost their "spark"; their creativity. It sounds cliche but Destiny just feels soulless.

Perhaps future content updates can remedy this. I don't know.
You explained the reasoning for your feeling in your opening remarks. "A short time playing". The game fleshes itself out the longer you play. I challenge you to come back here after you have completed the first Strike on the Moon and see if your feels are the same. I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.

This is my main gripe with this review, the thing reads like the author never even reached max level to see all the game has to offer.
He does a lot, so I doubt he'd have time to get that far into a game. "It gets better at x" is not much of a defense if reaching x is the work of a full day or more.

Vigormortis said:
Eeyup. Fallout: New Vegas was an infamous mess on release and as a result, I spent a few hours playing it and deleted it in disgust, not touching it until over a year later.

Precisely my point.

I'm all for a game getting better over time. I love seeing a game expand and grow as the developer and community contribute to it.

However, if I have to wait for those contributions to come around before the game becomes fun...
...then what's the rush, right? It's only going to cost more now anyway. Pardon my crudity, but once a game becomes a chore, it's only a small matter of time before I realize I could be wanking instead for free.
 

Fsyco

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myke66 said:
Please don't get my comments twisted, i'm not saying Destiny is a perfect game, but it still deserves a fair review for the type of game it is.
What's unfair about Jim's review? He played many hours of it, thought it was above average but very flawed, and assigned a score coinciding with his opinion.

If the initial experience of the player isn't fun, and all the good bits are at the end, it is not the player's duty to sludge through the beginning to get to the enjoyment. It is the fault of the developers for not designing the game well. Inserting a horse's cock into your anus might be a jolly good time once your sphincter has adjusted to accommodate it (or has lost all feeling), but the initial, unlubed intrusion isn't going to be fun, and the barrier to entry will turn alot of people off the experience.
 

MonkeyPunch

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Fsyco said:
If the initial experience of the player isn't fun, and all the good bits are at the end, it is not the player's duty to sludge through the beginning to get to the enjoyment. It is the fault of the developers for not designing the game well. Inserting a horse's cock into your anus might be a jolly good time once your sphincter has adjusted to accommodate it (or has lost all feeling), but the initial, unlubed intrusion isn't going to be fun, and the barrier to entry will turn alot of people off the experience.
Amazing analogy!
(yes, yes I saw it too analogy)
 

Baresark

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I looked at this game quite a bit and even with all of the play videos from the beta, it never looked fun to me. I'm not inclined to buy it. Especially hearing it's very "MMO-y". Guess I'll skip it, for now at least.
 

BrotherRool

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Vigormortis said:
What's been fascinating me most about this game release is the disparity in the critiques. Or rather, the double standards some critics have been showing. And my point of reference is Titanfall.

Titanfall - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 3/10
Destiny - Great PvP gameplay! But mediocre story and not much content. 9/10

I just....don't get it.
But that's because those sentences cover actually very different games. Titanfall is entirely a multiplayer shooter with a campaign that's very tacked on and ignored by it's audience because it's a multiplayer shooter and what the game expects you to do is shoot in multiplayer.

Destiny has a multiplayer shooter aspect, but the campaign is a huuge part of the game. They've created these huge involved and detailed worlds that do nothing and excite nothing. You could ignore the campaign but that'd feel like you're deliberately having to deny yourself a large portion of the game because of the developers lack of skill.

(Also Destiny has tons of content, it's just none of it is interesting. Titanfall has practically no content, but all of it is interesting)
 

marioandsonic

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So another game that's been hyped to hell and back, and turns out to be just okay?

Seems to be a running theme this year...

EDIT: Maybe if they release a PC port, I'll check it out. But I'm not going to hold my breath for that.
 

LoneWolf83

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So it's boring. What did you people expect from the creators of Halo (mediocrity given form) and the creator of COD (shit mechanics justifies by it being realistic, which it;s not, it's just as unrealistic as Doom but in different ways).

FPS's only work if they are heavenly story based (see Bioshock series), horror games (see nothing cause none f them have gotten horror right, that I'm aware of) and fun (see Doom, Quakes, Serious Sam and Painkiller). Halo and COD are non of these and are only populer because of the bro-casuals who ether play only one game or one game and maybe Madden.

If Destony gets into the bro-casual market it will be a huge success and will probably have just as many squeals as COD, if not it will be a failure just as Halo and COD would have been if it wasn't for the bro-casuals.
 

Jburton9

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I feel Jim's review is pretty much spot on. I played Destiny most of yesterday and I have come to similar conclusions before this review was posted.

**spoilers** Some parts below cover the start of the game.









Ok right out the gate the game fails to hook and deliver on story. Your character has been dead for what hundreds of years and you are suddenly resurrected. No weapons? So instead of hand to hand fighting and taking that opponents weapon, I happen to see an assault rifle just propped up all nice and ready to fire.

Maybe there are other potential survivors or at least ones that could be resurrected? So on my way to a nearby hangar did I see a single body? Nope, maybe special *guardian only* black boxes with press here to resurrect button? Nope did not see that either.

-skip to getting to home base-

So when I get there, any surprise a guardian is back what miracle is this reaction? Nope. I get a quest heading to go talk to the oracle or what the class lead/trainer is... What happens? Are they amazed that you are upright and no longer metabolically challenged? Nope, they just break off into a monolog and just like Jim says, they fail to notice why we the player should even care what the heck is going on.

Now take this in parallel with Master Chief, the character is established right away, npc's respond to you and your actions, very quickly it is also established that your character is a bad ass killing machine on two legs, has a well earned reputation etc.

Speaking of Halo, Destiny has quite a few similarities. Splinter guns with homing shards, Covenant drop ships with repelling troops, invisible troops with close combat focus, mortar firing minibosses, etc. It was to the point I wanted to see the little troopers running around scared that you have arrived and ready to kick some tail.

Were it not for the huge budget proclamations saying how the game will be really something. Instead this game feels like a mid to low level budgeted game. Definitely not the AAA title that many of us felt we would see.

Other issues that come to mind, if they know the screen scale during setup how come they did not scale the font? It is tiny! Also this should be world of face masks - how am I supposed to feel engaged when staring at glowy plate face covers?


If there was one nice thing I did find was lack of texture popping, that part was well done at least. Also the music was solid but still does not feel very driving yet.

So overall at this point, Destiny is an ok - shared experience - shooter. I really would like Destiny to be so much more but from where? Nothing has been given to us to stand behind and get excited about. My best hope is for later? It has been advertised that this is a new big series and how it will be epic, so maybe that will happen.

I just hope it happens pretty soon because my interest is at that dangerous place, shooting stuff in the face over and over, why am I doing this again? Hmmm.
 

SKBPinkie

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Sounds like it's straight up my alley.

Solid shooting, good enemies, rewarding RPG system, etc. Stories in games are usually awful anyways, so I don't care about that bit. Hell, I played solo Firefights in Halo Reach hundreds of times. If the gunplay and the overall "feel" of the game is good, then that's absolutely perfect for me. Wasn't expecting anything more from the game anyways.
 

Vigormortis

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BrotherRool said:
But that's because those sentences cover actually very different games. Titanfall is entirely a multiplayer shooter with a campaign that's very tacked on and ignored by it's audience because it's a multiplayer shooter and what the game expects you to do is shoot in multiplayer.

Destiny has a multiplayer shooter aspect, but the campaign is a huuge part of the game. They've created these huge involved and detailed worlds that do nothing and excite nothing. You could ignore the campaign but that'd feel like you're deliberately having to deny yourself a large portion of the game because of the developers lack of skill.

(Also Destiny has tons of content, it's just none of it is interesting. Titanfall has practically no content, but all of it is interesting)
I actually agree. And that was part of the point behind my confusion.

I explained myself a bit better (I think) in another post. It's on page 1 if you're interested.
 

TheEvilGenius

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I find it interesting that Jim takes issue with the names of things, calling it a waste of talent. This is Bungie we're talking about, right? Their last games were about a Space Marine employed by United Nations Space Command named Master Chief leading a war effort against The Covenant and preventing them from activating giant halos in space called Halos.

Other races and characters include, Precursor, The Primordial, The Flood, Forerunners etc.

Bungie doesn't exactly have a long history of creative naming. It's a good review all the same, though.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Jul 15, 2009
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I'm going to give my brothers copy a go on his PS today, from what I have seen him play, this seems about right. But I imagine this is the kind of game that would be a blast with a group of friends.
 

shirkbot

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Fsyco said:
Charcharo said:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The average score for video games should be around 5. Maybe just a tad more.
Currently it is around 7...
That is not right.
That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.
Just to clarify for international audiences, that's a peculiarity of the US education system. 70% = C = GPA 2.0 = Average. I don't pretend to understand, that's just how it is.

OT: Well at least it sounds like it's a good way to kill some time, but it sounds like Bungie isn't exactly leaving their comfort zone.
 

BrotherRool

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Vigormortis said:
I actually agree. And that was part of the point behind my confusion.

I explained myself a bit better (I think) in another post. It's on page 1 if you're interested.
Oh, sorry for misunderstanding you
 

Nurb

Cynical bastard
Dec 9, 2008
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Pretty much what I expected; too much money spent on making an "OK" experience.
 

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
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Hmm, so decent, but unimaginative.

Maybe I'll pick it up after it has a price drop/sale. After loving all of Bungie's halo games (and the art involved), it's disappointing to see that this is their first foray into something new. Maybe they'll make the inevitable sequel better. One can only hope.
 

Draconalis

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I kept asking, "What does this game offer outside of combat" and the only answer I ever got was, "..."

I took that as a bad sign. When I got into the Beta, I took it as a worst sign that, without ps+, the only thing you can do is go into instanced areas by yourself. You can't join squads, and can't do any content with other people.

Lastly, I expect MMOs to be somewhat social. Even if it's just watching a night elf dance on a mail box... that's something outside of "go out and murder".

I canceled my pre-order and bought conception II instead.
 

Something Amyss

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Fsyco said:
That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.
In every school I've been in, a D was in the 60s and still passing. A bigger issue is that C is considered "average" and D below average.
 

JonnyBigBoss

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Great review Jim! I agree with most of your sentiments, although I have found The Crucible to be a complete waste of time.

I really wanted this game to be something special. Unfortunately, it's the most disappointing game I've played in years.

It's fantastic to see you doing well over here at Escapist. Keep up the good work!
 

DarkhoIlow

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I called it! But nooo Batman, Batman! they shouted from the rooftops "Destiny is going to be the best game this year!" they said...as I shook my head and shrugged my shoulders walking away.

This is why you don't overhype your games people so when the disappointment hits you take it more softly.

So much money wasted on marketing this game instead of making new IP's..kinda sad really.
 

LaoJim

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Charcharo said:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.
The other point to make with Jim's reviews is that he tends not to fall into the fallacy that a lot of other reviewers do that says; "This game has clearly had a lot of money spent on it, therefore it must be worth at least an 8, irrespective of any issues we've identified in the review". Lots of other reviews are making many of the same points he is but settling on a higher score (quite a few are still "in-progress" though). I think Jim tends to be forgiving of gameplay or other issues if the game is fun/interesting/unique, but is very harsh on a perceived "lack of soul", especially coming out of a project that has been hyped as much as this has.

I also have to admit to not having quite 'calibrated' myself to the new Escapist review system, however I feel like 3 stars is not the same as 6 out of 10 from most other publications. To my mind the system probably works something like

5 stars = Between 9 and 10.
4 stars = Between 8 and 9.
3 stars = Between 7 and 8.
2 stars = Between 5 and 7.
1 star = Less than 5

Something like that. 3 stars means average which is usually what 7.5 says to me in most reviews.
 

Fsyco

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Fsyco said:
That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.
In every school I've been in, a D was in the 60s and still passing. A bigger issue is that C is considered "average" and D below average.
In every school I've been in, a 'D' is considered failing. Hell, I took one class where a 'C-' was failing.

shirkbot said:
Just to clarify for international audiences, that's a peculiarity of the US education system. 70% = C = GPA 2.0 = Average. I don't pretend to understand, that's just how it is.
It makes some sense if you think about it. Knowing the majority of the material for a class is considered sufficient enough to go on to the next one. Knowing just exactly half or just over half is probably considered not knowing enough to count has having passed. Although why 'barely passing' is 'average' I have no idea. Maybe that's just a quirk of when they introduced that grading system.

'C' isn't actually 'average' anymore due to grade inflation, though. The average is closer to A- or B+. The system could probably use some major recalibrations.

Score inflation has also been a bit of an issue, since some people complain when games don't get near-perfect scores. Remember the Escapist's GTA5 review? Jim made a video on the subject, linked here for reference.
Thank God for Jim Sterling.
 

Fsyco

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LaoJim said:
Charcharo said:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.
The other point to make with Jim's reviews is that he tends not to fall into the fallacy that a lot of other reviewers do that says; "This game has clearly had a lot of money spent on it, therefore it must be worth at least an 8, irrespective of any issues we've identified in the review". Lots of other reviews are making many of the same points he is but settling on a higher score (quite a few are still "in-progress" though). I think Jim tends to be forgiving of gameplay or other issues if the game is fun/interesting/unique, but is very harsh on a perceived "lack of soul", especially coming out of a project that has been hyped as much as this has.

I also have to admit to not having quite 'calibrated' myself to the new Escapist review system, however I feel like 3 stars is not the same as 6 out of 10 from most other publications. To my mind the system probably works something like

5 stars = Between 9 and 10.
4 stars = Between 8 and 9.
3 stars = Between 7 and 8.
2 stars = Between 5 and 7.
1 star = Less than 5

Something like that. 3 stars means average which is usually what 7.5 says to me in most reviews.
Jim actually outlined the rating system when he became reviews editor.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/7149-What-Our-Review-Scores-Mean
I like it alot more than the 7-9 scale.
 

Seracen

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Dear Jim,

God bless you, and thank you for being brave enough to call Destiny on it's "meh" factor. The storytelling really let me down on this one. It remains a good buy so long as the multiplayer community is strong. It certainly is a beautiful game, and the mechanics are fun. But my time with the Beta burned me out fairly quickly...and it certainly did feel like a slog.

Thanks for letting me realize I wasn't the only one who felt this way about it. It isn't a terrible game...it's just...average...and that isn't really worth $60 to me.
 

Malpraxis

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Jul 30, 2013
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FPS MMO with a bajillion dollar budget and advertising up the cork hole every freaking where for months. Of course it wouldn't live up to the hype. Maybe it's decent, I'll never know, since that genre isn't my cup of tea, but I doubt anyone was expecting it to be the second coming of Cthulhu, unless gamers are a bunch of hype happy people with the same disease of the guy from Memento.
 

Vigormortis

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BrotherRool said:
Vigormortis said:
I actually agree. And that was part of the point behind my confusion.

I explained myself a bit better (I think) in another post. It's on page 1 if you're interested.
Oh, sorry for misunderstanding you
No worries.

Honestly, I should have worded my post far better than I had. It's context is a bit unclear.
 

Rad Party God

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Feb 23, 2010
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Yup, just as I expected, all hype and nothing spectacular.

myke66 said:
I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.
I'm a fan of MMOs and even I admit that these types of games takes a good while to get you hooked, but even most of my favorite MMOs really hooked me before level 10. If I hit level 20 and I'm still asking myself "am I having fun yet?", I just stop playing and move on to something else, if anyone is telling me "it gets better later on", I just dismiss it as a Stockholm syndrome effect.
 

Foolery

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Jun 5, 2013
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Xsjadoblayde said:
Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??
Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn. You're welcome.

Anyway, I'm not digging Destiny. Somehow Bungie managed to have worse writing than halo, and honestly I feel even Warframe is a better MMO sci-fi shooter.
 

Bigeyez

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Destiny has been incredible fun for me and my friends. It's hit that shooter itch that Titanfall just couldn't for us. It's solid gameplay paired with fun pve and pvp multiplayer and a pinch of Diablo thrown in.

Is the story lacking? Yes it definitely is, but the Diablo 3 story sucked even worse and I'm still having fun playing that.

I think what is causing all the negativity towards Destiny is that it was sold to everyone as this big epic adventure and the story just isn't there.

The only story and epic adventure that really matters in Destiny is the one you and your friends make. The epic last second saves. The awesome multi-kill supers. Getting that awesome exotic weapon. Playing soccer in the tower with friends and random people. That's where the real Destiny story comes from. Forget the traveler, darkness blahblahblah garbage.

So in the end for me Destiny has been extremely fun and I can see myself and my friends playing it for a long time. I can totally see how for some people though it is really disappointing and deserving of the criticism it is getting.
 

Something Amyss

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Malpraxis said:
I'll never know, since that genre isn't my cup of tea, but I doubt anyone was expecting it to be the second coming of Cthulhu, unless gamers are a bunch of hype happy people with the same disease of the guy from Memento.
Given the general pattern of hype>rage>hype, I kind of wonder if that's the case.
 

MrHide-Patten

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This review is so delicious, sums up all my contempt and disappointment,but seeing as how I didn't pay for this tripe (Alpha and Beta were free) it's just sad to see so many of my buddies sucked into the sticky shallow marsh.

Even then, when I was playing with mates I couldn't wait for them to get tired or for something to drag me away, even the PvP which Jim gave a positive mention for was grating.

Prepare ya butt Jim for all the butthurt fanboys looking for revenge for pointing out they've wasted money.
 

Darth_Payn

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TBH, this is the first I heard of Destiny being an MMO at all. I hear "The Developers of HALO" I think "Sci-fi FPS", and only that. Still, it looks better than th modern military shooters clogging up the shelves.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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I was excited when I heard about this game. Then I heard Bungie would be giving PC gamers the shaft, I was less excited. Then I saw my brother play the Beta, I thought "It looks like a Halo-Boderlands MMO". Now I am glad the PC doesn't have this title.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Though I can't really imagine a writer who would write the sentence

The evil threatening the universe is called the darkness, because of course it is

criticizing the writing of a game as trite, I think that Destiny is a good example of why we should stop buying in the the hype around new first person shooting games. Nothing about this game looks revolutionary or special, so maybe we should stop believing thing hype around stuff like this and Titanfall and Call of Duty games.

Also, we should stop thinking that a company that once made a good FPS will continue the trend with new ones. Gearbox, id, and Bungie make it a clear trend!
 

juyunseen

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As much as I'm enamored with the game, I can't argue with anything Jim said. I'm most certainly a Halo fanboy, and I was on board from the moment they announced it, but after 10 hours in game and hitting the level cap I think I'm past my hopes for the game and comfortable with what it is.

Destiny is a good MMO. It is not a great MMO. It does not redefine what an MMO should be, and it does play it safe. That said, this is the first time in a very very long time an MMO hooked me and its because Bungie are grade A masters of gameplay that is moment to moment fun. Is this their best outing? No, that's probably either Halo 2 or Halo Reach. Are they still showing off their ability to make their, quote, "30 seconds of fun" carry an entire game. Destiny subscribes to Bungie's golden triangle from halo (whereby combat flows between the three points of guns melee and grenades seamlessly.

Is the game a grindy MMO? You bet your ass it is and I'm disappointed by it. However unlike most its an MMO with gameplay oozing out its ears so I'll still enjoy the grind.

The feeling it gives me, and while I'm on board with it a lot of people wont be, is that the base game is meant as a jumping off point. A chunk of worldbuilding instead of a complete game. An MMO can't have an end. Not really. Unless you do what the Runescape guys are currently trying to do, but they've been running that game for more than a decade now and have worked towards that point. MMOs are made for longevity and so is Destiny. Unfortunately the mix was hit wrong and the base game was too short so the game, given its $60 price tag and being billed as a triple A shooter, feels like a DLC cash grab, or will feel like that once the DLC begins being released.

Is there a way to remedy this? Well the way that comes to mind for me is for Bungie to build actual expansion packs instead of small DLC chunks. Build an actual narrative within the already existing game (using new and preexisting areas) create a full campaign and toss in new weapons and maps and a raised level cap, and release that for $20-$30.

However Activision has a long history with shooters and map packs.

Maybe the Blizzard side of Activision Blizzard will bleed through and the smart choice will be made. I don't like WoW at all, but I appreciate that those guys know how to make an MMO.
 

Sanunes

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Personally, when reading or listening to reviews I almost never go by the final score for I always find that subjective on what a person enjoys when playing a game and might not accurately describe what I feel about it.

After reading all of Jim's review this doesn't sound much like a game I would buy unless I know several friends that own it and thanks to the beta most of the people I know that were interested in the game decided to wait for awhile before buying it.
 

Daaaah Whoosh

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I think the whole point of the blandness of Destiny is that it's not trying too hard to force you into its world. It gives you a beautiful canvas upon which you're supposed to write your story. That's why their motto is "Become Legend"; it's not about running through the three acts of someone else's life, it's about building friendships and having experiences that are meaningful to you. The universe doesn't feel lived in because we haven't been there long enough, it feels clean because we haven't had a chance to dirty it up.

It's still a bit lazy on Bungie's part, and I imagine that's linked to the reason Joseph Staten left, but I really like a universe built more around rumor than fact, superstition before canon. That's why I left Halo when 4 came out, and why no one likes midichlorians.
 

Billy the Squid

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I think that's the biggest issue with Destiny at the moment, the story, or the lack there of to be precise.

PvP FPS mechanics, very solid and enjoyable, the weapons and play style is like any FPS with added powers and progression, crafting armour weapons and visual styles are all great.

But, there's very little background given to what the hell is actually going on. I didn't mind the faction names, as proved later on The Fallen are a feudalistic society made up of various houses such as The House of Devils and they like each other as little as they like humans. But then it just stops there. Who are they? Where are they from? Why are they nomadic? Why is their society formed that way? Like the Awakened, "something happened to them at the time of the collapse" okay, that's very interesting what happened?

Nothing of this sort seemed to be expended on. And I know Bungie can write good fiction for their games, I remember Myth, the Fallen Lords and Soul Blighter. (that might give away my age) Halo was decent too. So what happened here?

Good game, very enjoyable PvP, the game improves dramatically when playing with friends in the Campaign, my girlfriend and I had a run through and I enjoyed playing with her more than doing a solo run. Let's see what the DLC coming up actually adds, hopefully it'll flesh the universe out a little more.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Oh dear. I fear this game just got moved further down my list of purchases. I was getting a bit suspicious when it was released and I wasn't hearing any buzz about it, but I had my doubts long before. When it was first announced and all the focus was on gameplay and co op, but I couldn't find anything about what was going on. Sounds like the reason behind that is because there's not much going on.
Story is the main driving factor of any game for me. It doesn't matter how amazing the gameplay is, how popular the title is, or how many of my friends are playing it. If the story bores me, I quickly lose interest in the game, so it sounds like this game will end up being a bargain purchase sometime down the line.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Billy the Squid said:
Nothing of this sort seemed to be expended on. And I know Bungie can write good fiction for their games, I remember Myth, the Fallen Lords and Soul Blighter. (that might give away my age)
Oh man, the lore in those games (and the way it was told) still ranks among the best in my opinion. Love those games. A pity they can't seem to recapture that level with Destiny.
 

camazotz

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Have to agree....I am loving the game, but noticed early on it feels like I'm playing a version of Fallout 3 or Mass Effect in which someone forgot to include 95% of the actual story. Even Halo has more involvement than Destiny. It does, however, have about 10 times the "plot" that Titanfall offered, for whatever that's worth....
 

BaronVH

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I knew it would not be as good as the hype, and I understand the points in the reveiw, but I am having a great time with it. It definately is a MMORPG, but a very, very light one with guns. I hate MMORPGs since they penalize the solo player, but this does not. I like the ability to join up when you want to. I also love that enemies typically do not just spawn in, but are flown in on dropships or run out of closets and such. I did not want a game that required me to sink 200 hours into it. This is just what I wanted. I plan to move on to Mordor and Alien soon, and I bet I will be able to take a break from Destiny and pop back in with ease later. I would give it an A- or four and a half stars, but this is extremely subjective to me.
 

Billy the Squid

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Sniper Team 4 said:
Billy the Squid said:
Nothing of this sort seemed to be expended on. And I know Bungie can write good fiction for their games, I remember Myth, the Fallen Lords and Soul Blighter. (that might give away my age)
Oh man, the lore in those games (and the way it was told) still ranks among the best in my opinion. Love those games. A pity they can't seem to recapture that level with Destiny.
Yep, the narrator and the journal entries were all fantastic. The drawings, even the cartoon cut scenes, I loved those games. They didn't really give a whole lot of detail in the back story as to what happened before Balor and the Fallen Lords attacked, but they gave enough so we could understand and get that sense of investment, while trickling extra info in when needed.

The way it was told from a soldier's perspective with knowledge based on myths and legends, with added info from events and well informed characters really helped move the story along without the need for an omniscient narrator, which would have killed the mystery of the Fallen Lords and Soulblighter.

If they wanted to leave Destiny with a bit of mystery and the background based on myths, then the Myth series is the style they should base the writing on.
 

camazotz

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Daaaah Whoosh said:
I think the whole point of the blandness of Destiny is that it's not trying too hard to force you into its world. It gives you a beautiful canvas upon which you're supposed to write your story. That's why their motto is "Become Legend"; it's not about running through the three acts of someone else's life, it's about building friendships and having experiences that are meaningful to you. The universe doesn't feel lived in because we haven't been there long enough, it feels clean because we haven't had a chance to dirty it up.

It's still a bit lazy on Bungie's part, and I imagine that's linked to the reason Joseph Staten left, but I really like a universe built more around rumor than fact, superstition before canon. That's why I left Halo when 4 came out, and why no one likes midichlorians.
If that was the intent then I think they still failed. Most MMORPGs succeed at this by providing you with the tools to "make it your own." Destiny feels like a fantastic FPS engine in a Haloesque universe where no one has inserted any real dialogue or cutscenes yet. You can't even name your characters.....
 

Flunk

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I hate any shooter that requires you "level up" to do basic things. It's infuriating to have my aim screwed up or be otherwise artificially limited. It ruins the whole thing for me. So now that I know that I'm going to give Destiny a pass, glad I read this review.

If they must have unlocks they should just lock down the weapons so you have less choice and can unlock more choice or slight upgrades.
 

lumenadducere

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My general approach to MMOs is that they're only going to improve with time, and that it's not until the first few updates are out that the devs have really gotten what they wanted into the game. I can only assume that Destiny is going to be the same, especially given that Bungie as a studio hasn't done a MMO before. If they're genuinely looking to get this to be a 10-year franchise then they're going to improve on it with time.
 

ilexuki

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the main thing i've learned from this whole destiny thing is, a lot of people not only have never played a mmo, but have no idea what makes a mmo a mmo.

destiny, is not a traditional mmo, so people need to stop comparing it to wow,ff,gw2, etc.

destiny is closest to a lobby mmo, like vindictus, warframe, phantasy star. lobby mmos have different rules and standards than traditional mmos.they handle content differently and add content differently, so i'd advise not relying on expansions to turn the game around if you don't like it.

i think a lot of the problem is when people heard the game was gonna be similar to a mmo, they thought traditional mmo, which if you don't play mmos much or at all would be a fair assumption. bungie didn't bother to correct that assumption, because it generated a lot of hype, so it's somewhat shaky who's to blame for the misconception. gamers came up with a perception of how destiny would be, bungie fueled that perception at worst, didn't bother to correct it at best.

either way, the game being somewhat mmo like doesn't give it a pass for being bad in the areas critics and fans continue to bring up.

also, i've never played, or heard of a mmo that's launched with only 5-10 hours of content,that's pretty much unheard of.
 

Razorback0z

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Im almost surprised at how unsurprising that review was.

Seems Bungie took the same attitude I took to my degree, "P's get degrees"

That's another $90 saved.
 

TheSapphireKnight

I hate Dire Wolves...
Dec 4, 2008
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I keep wanting to be excited for Destiny.
*"Oh, Bungie is working on a new series, I want to see what it is!"
*"So its this Destiny thing, tell me more!"
*Que year of pre-release marketing gobblygook, that told me nothing I wanted to know.
*Mix in with some questionable developer decisions, no PC release, 'Parity', etc.
*Okay maybe the Alpha/Beta will show me something to latch on to.....
*Initial impressions and reviews are not helping either.

When its all written down in paper it seems like something Destiny would be right up my ally, but seeing it in action and hearing about it from others I cannot get excited. And if the vs multiplayer is the highlight with no custom games, private lobbies, or any options, I can't see it really having legs.

It's really disappointing that the only next gen 'exclusive' coming out this year that I am interested is Master Chief Collection, sigh.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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LaoJim said:
Charcharo said:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.
The other point to make with Jim's reviews is that he tends not to fall into the fallacy that a lot of other reviewers do that says; "This game has clearly had a lot of money spent on it, therefore it must be worth at least an 8, irrespective of any issues we've identified in the review". Lots of other reviews are making many of the same points he is but settling on a higher score (quite a few are still "in-progress" though). I think Jim tends to be forgiving of gameplay or other issues if the game is fun/interesting/unique, but is very harsh on a perceived "lack of soul", especially coming out of a project that has been hyped as much as this has.

I also have to admit to not having quite 'calibrated' myself to the new Escapist review system, however I feel like 3 stars is not the same as 6 out of 10 from most other publications. To my mind the system probably works something like

5 stars = Between 9 and 10.
4 stars = Between 8 and 9.
3 stars = Between 7 and 8.
2 stars = Between 5 and 7.
1 star = Less than 5

Something like that. 3 stars means average which is usually what 7.5 says to me in most reviews.
7.5 means awesome game to me. 8 Means great. 9 means classic/exemplary work. More then that does not exist.
That is how I calibrated scores in my head.
5 is average. And 6 is good, though flawed in many ways.
7.5 should NOT be the average.


Fsyco said:
Charcharo said:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The average score for video games should be around 5. Maybe just a tad more.
Currently it is around 7...
That is not right.
That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.

Of course, that's assuming you normalize the distribution of scores so that, by definition, 5 is in the middle, which means you have to compare it to other games, which is a bit of an issue if you have a big glut of shit games, since games have certain objective indicators of quality (technical stuff, like how it performs and controls). I have no idea how you'd factor in objective AND comparitive, subjective stuff into calculating a single score.

In short: Making a decent scoring system is hard and complex. Personally, I vote to scrap it all together since I, like Yahtzee, believe opinions cannot be properly expressed by a single number, but alot of people seem to like them and want to keep them, so we're stuck with the system we have.
Here in Bulgaria grades are from 2 to 6.
2 is poor.
3 is a pass.
4 is "good"
5 is very good.
6 is excellent :) .

Well, movies have it better. Their average is not 7.5

And yes, I am all for deleting this BS of scores. Only PURELY technical things can be given scores and that is all that you can do. Nothing more.
 

Madame_Lawliet

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Eh, didn't really care much about this one anyway, it's whole "It's Halo, BUT ON PLAYSTATION!" angle seemed pretty cut and dry from the get-go and I've determined that I am never going to like or care about MMO's.
Man 2014 has been kind of a wash for AAA games though hasn't it?
Usually by now there's one, maybe two or three stand out "Game of the Year!" type games but this year it's been so... bleh...
Watch_Dogs was met with a resounding meh, Titanfall was pretty popular for about a week before everyone realized how little lastability it held, Ground Zeroes turned out to be a thirty dollar demo for the real MGSV, and Destiny hasn't turned out too sharp either.
That's not to say that every AAA game has been terrible, I mean Dark Souls II came out, it's pretty rad, but there just hasn't been a Bioshock Infinite/Red Dead Redemption/Skyrim level critical explosion yet like there has been in years past.
Granted we've still got Evil Within and The Presequel (as well as AC: Unity and COD: Advanced Warfare if you're into that sort of thing) to look forward to but generally speaking? been a pretty "Meh" year thus far...
 

Texas Joker 52

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Jun 25, 2011
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I can see what Jim's getting at, but I for one am having a pretty good time with Destiny. Granted, no game is without flaws, and it certainly feels like it's the most anti-social social game out there, but I still think it's a solid game. It doesn't innovate radically, it doesn't blow away the competition, but then again, it doesn't really have to. It has it's place, and for those that love it and have fun, it's there for them.

I'd hardly call Destiny mediocre, or groundbreaking, but it's still pretty damn good as far as I'm concerned, and I'm glad Jim is having fun with it. I for one give it a firm thumbs-up. Though, I do wish there seemed to be less of a... Jaded outlook, for lack of a better description, when it comes to shooters.
 

james.sponge

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So a bland, boring, shallow product with huge marketing budget, yay for modern game development. I find it annoying that various weapons occupy such a huge portion of the screen, I remember developers use to do that to save console memory but isn't this supposed to be next gen?
 

LaoJim

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Fsyco said:
Jim actually outlined the rating system when he became reviews editor.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/7149-What-Our-Review-Scores-Mean
I like it alot more than the 7-9 scale.
Thanks for posting this, I had seen it, but I'd forgotten about half-stars.

Charcharo said:
7.5 means awesome game to me. 8 Means great. 9 means classic/exemplary work. More then that does not exist.
That is how I calibrated scores in my head.
5 is average. And 6 is good, though flawed in many ways.
7.5 should NOT be the average.
I agree that it 'should not' be the average. However I'm talking about what most publications actually do, which is seriously inflate scores.

For example go to Metacritic -> Xbox 360 -> High Scores -> All Time

There are 19 pages of results, meaning the median score is somewhere about halfway down page 10, and so is either 69 or 70. Or, because I'm geeky, we can look at the mode.

90-100 = 54 games
80-90 = 366 games
70-80 = 484 games
60-70 = 363 games
50-60 = 144 games
40-50 = 147 games
30-40 = 55 games
20-30 = 16 games
10-20 = 3 games

Notice that in total there are 365 games < 60 only about the same size as the 80-90 or 60-70 bands and quite a bit smaller than the 70-80 band.

If a 3 star review represents a statistically average game as Jim says in the criteria, then it should be about a 70 on the Metacritic scale, which, to be fair, is a little lower than the 7-8 I claimed earlier. My point still stands that most publications would tend to have the attitude "This game isn't as fun as it should be, but its clearly had a lot of money/polish, so we'll give it an 8 and because the developers wanted a 9, this will be seen as criticising it"

The problem for magazines I think is that its very difficult for them to lower review scores because people complain viciously if a game which traditionally gets an 8 is suddenly given a 7 (or a 9 given an 8, see Jim's review of Gears of War 3) even if that 7 is defined as being significantly above average.

By using a star system I think the Escapist is trying to control for this score inflation a bit, which I applaud.
 

The White Hunter

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Oct 19, 2011
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Xsjadoblayde said:
Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??
FFXIV: ARR is on PS4 now and that's a damn good MMO. Though it is subscription based and that may turn some off.

OT: So pretty much as expected, rather overhyped but still decent, decidedly not worth the £400 investment in a console for it.
 

Haru17

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I agree with everything in the review from playing Halo and the Destiny beta.

Halo had good combat, Destiny has great combat when enemies aren't bulletsponges.
Halo had a great single player component with different mission types and objectives, while in Destiny you run around and shoot dudes.
Halo had memorable and distinct enemies, like the often comical grunts, while Destiny seems to have the same humanoid opponent over and over again.
Halo had good pvp that I didn't really dig, and Destiny has great pvp that I love, since they sped it up.
Halo had a realistic world with unique visual locations and interaction, while destiny has barren wastelands that, while bigger than Halo's maps, somehow manage to have less in them.

And last, but certainly not least Halo had an engaging well-told story and I can't find a story in Destiny to save my life.

I'd really love to see the Destiny combat system with some more guns and abilities return in Destiny 2 with an actual plot and singleplayer mode this time.
 

VeneratedWulfen93

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LoneWolf83 said:
So it's boring. What did you people expect from the creators of Halo (mediocrity given form) and the creator of COD (shit mechanics justifies by it being realistic, which it;s not, it's just as unrealistic as Doom but in different ways).

FPS's only work if they are heavenly story based (see Bioshock series), horror games (see nothing cause none f them have gotten horror right, that I'm aware of) and fun (see Doom, Quakes, Serious Sam and Painkiller). Halo and COD are non of these and are only populer because of the bro-casuals who ether play only one game or one game and maybe Madden.

If Destony gets into the bro-casual market it will be a huge success and will probably have just as many squeals as COD, if not it will be a failure just as Halo and COD would have been if it wasn't for the bro-casuals.
You obviously have no experience with games on a technical level to dismiss the halo series as "mediocrity given form".

Dismissing a huge chunk of gamers as "bro-casuals" for playing a certain type of game is ignorant to the extreme.
 

Alleged_Alec

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The White Hunter said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??
FFXIV: ARR is on PS4 now and that's a damn good MMO. Though it is subscription based and that may turn some off.
Dead Century said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??
Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn. You're welcome.
Blegh, it was like every aspect of that game was made particularly to piss me off. The story was insultingly stupid, with your character forced to join up with a group of colossal morons and having to be saved by this white-haired douche all the time, the villains were so laughably evil that once I died because I couldn't stop laughing about the cutscene I just watched. Some gameplay elements are downright stupid (why do mobs not give some decent amount of exp?), dungeons were mostly laughably easy and the entire fucking world was littered with people named "Naruto Kenpachi" or some other horrible animu-composite name. But the worst thing, the thing that drove me slowly insane, was that is was nigh impossible to kick the retards from dungeon crawls. There was a kick system which you could potentially abuse by just saying they were doing something against the game's rules and that could potentially kick them, but then you'd need to convince half of the team to do so as well, and most of them were only slightly less retarded than the wall-paper licker you were trying to kick. And this wasn't helped by the fact that dungeon queueing was cross-realm, so you could be as big of an asshole as possible and suffer no consequences whatsoever, since you'd most likely never see those people again.

I think the day I stopped playing my blood pressure dropped by at least a quarter.



As for Destiny: meh. I may have bought it if they hadn't done the following: not release it on pc. Seriously man? No PC release again? It's like you don't want the money, Bungie. And most importantly: the review embargo. Everyone who does this should go nail their balls to a fucking space hopper. This practice is more toxic to the industry than any transphobic misogynist you can find out there and I think it's a black mark on the journalistic industry that so many people actually adhere to this kind of bullshit.



EDIT:
Oh, totally forgot: and the worst thing about the vote to kick system is that you can't initiate it if you're in battle, so if the mongoloid asshole you're trying to kick keeps pulling, you can't even get rid of him at all.
 

Summerstorm

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Funny thing about this game was that apparently it was super-hyped... but it flew totally under my radar. I knew it existed (Didn't know when and how it would came out)- and i didn't care. Totally failed to make an impression on me.

Ah well... So i have been playing Firefall recently, seems to be the same game *g*

Well slightly borked storytelling with a few good ideas wasted, some looting and crafting crap. Shooting billions of enemies. Somehow strangely fun.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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LaoJim said:
90-100 = 54 games
80-90 = 366 games
70-80 = 484 games
60-70 = 363 games
50-60 = 144 games
40-50 = 147 games
30-40 = 55 games
20-30 = 16 games
10-20 = 3 games

Notice that in total there are 365 games < 60 only about the same size as the 80-90 or 60-70 bands and quite a bit smaller than the 70-80 band.
In fairness, this should translate pretty well for people that are thinking in terms of the percentage adaptation of the letter grade system in grade school, e.g.

90% - 100% = A, pretty excellent
80% - 90% = B, solid but not outstanding
70% - 80% = C, what most people are expected to get on average, mediocre
60% - 70% = D, not a complete failure but extremely disappointing
60% or less = F, so terrible that it barely qualifies as the thing it's supposed to be, or doesn't at all


Of course, the underlying reason for the grade school system (a buffer on grades mitigating how hard a single bad class could alter your average) doesn't apply here, but there probably is some merit in just rolling with something the vast majority of readers can pick up on.

Albeit, you should detail your own grading system with the score in a footnote or something.
 

major_chaos

Ruining videogames
Feb 3, 2011
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MrHide-Patten said:
Prepare ya butt Jim for all the butthurt fanboys looking for revenge for pointing out they've wasted money.
How did they "waste money"? If they are fans of the game they are having fun, and thus didn't waste money. I bought it, I'm enjoying it, Don't see where money is wasted. Also I'm not sure where your sense of bitter vindication is coming from, Jim really wasn't nearly as negative as you. The overall tone was "solid but unimaginative, I'll be playing after this review is done so it must be doing something right" not 'IT'S SHIT JONATHAN HOLMES!!!!". hell he actually says " If you're one of those gamers who care about such things as "content" and "replay value" to the exclusion of all other qualities, then you'll be suitably covered here." which is hardly a big red AVOID stamp.
Also good job inventing imaginary fanboys to feel superior to, that was a nice touch.

OT: I very rarely buy into hype so I had nothing to be disappointed with. Destiny is mostly what I was hoping for, just with a few more flaws than I would have liked so 7/10 sounds about right. That said not every game has to reinvent the wheel to entertain me. My biggest hope is that it sells well enough to fund a Destiny 2 a few years down the line and that Bungie learns from the reviews and puts more effort into using the potential of the world they created story wise and vastly expands on the monster variety.
 

Kungfusam

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Jim gave Vanquish a 5 and DmC a 9, add in the fact that Jim is clearly "butthurt" about Activision bypassing game "journalists" and selling Destiny straight to the consumer, and that 6 does make some sense
 

LaoJim

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Jim_Callahan said:
In fairness, this should translate pretty well for people that are thinking in terms of the percentage adaptation of the letter grade system in grade school, e.g.
Yeah, I guess it does. I think one of the problems with it though is that while gamers understand instinctively what 9,8,7 and 6 mean as scores, there's a bigger gray area over 5,4,3,2 and 1. That is to say, when Jim (then working for Destructoid) gave Resident Evil 6 a 3 that seemed unusually harsh, but most other publications were making the mainly same points and giving 5 or 6. Perhaps that doesn't matter as when things are scoring under 6 you're unlikely to want to buy them anyway.

Jim_Callahan said:
Of course, the underlying reason for the grade school system (a buffer on grades mitigating how hard a single bad class could alter your average) doesn't apply here, but there probably is some merit in just rolling with something the vast majority of readers can pick up on.

Albeit, you should detail your own grading system with the score in a footnote or something.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter what scoring system you're using as long as you are clear and consistent about it, but a lot of publications seem to be bullied (either by consumers or publishers) into getting a narrow band of grades 7-9. As you say this does seem to match with the grade school system. (Actually a A,B,C,D,E system might work better than numbers)
 

keideki

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Sep 10, 2008
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I've already hit max level and I have done all the strikes. Gotten to light level 23. The PVP content is very strong for Destiny but I really feel like the PVE content can only shine when you are playing with friends. The way the supers feed each other can make even the more mundane aspects of the story content really awesome.
 

Airon

New member
Jan 8, 2012
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Thanks Jim.
Looks like I'll be giving this a miss entirely. I already have Borderlands 2 to occasionally slog through and TF2 for FPS multiplayer duties. Or I can fight a nice solid war in Planetside or Battlefield with some friends.

With no solid story, I'd rather wait for the next Dragon Age epic, where the story and characters are sure to be more worth my while. Or perhaps finally make the leap in to Mass Effect 2 after having no time to indulge when it came out or went on sale so many times.

Hope they don't split the community with DLC that fixes the games shortcomings.
 

RA92

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Jan 1, 2011
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$500 million into development and the best thing they could come up with was The Darkness? Why not just call it The Big Bad?
 

Neurotic Void Melody

Bound to escape
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,903
6
13
Alleged_Alec said:
The White Hunter said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??
FFXIV: ARR is on PS4 now and that's a damn good MMO. Though it is subscription based and that may turn some off.
Dead Century said:
Xsjadoblayde said:
Us console owners...when will we have a decent MMO??
Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn. You're welcome.
Blegh, it was like every aspect of that game was made particularly to piss me off. The story was insultingly stupid, with your character forced to join up with a group of colossal morons and having to be saved by this white-haired douche all the time, the villains were so laughably evil that once I died because I couldn't stop laughing about the cutscene I just watched. Some gameplay elements are downright stupid (why do mobs not give some decent amount of exp?), dungeons were mostly laughably easy and the entire fucking world was littered with people named "Naruto Kenpachi" or some other horrible animu-composite name. But the worst thing, the thing that drove me slowly insane, was that is was nigh impossible to kick the retards from dungeon crawls. There was a kick system which you could potentially abuse by just saying they were doing something against the game's rules and that could potentially kick them, but then you'd need to convince half of the team to do so as well, and most of them were only slightly less retarded than the wall-paper licker you were trying to kick. And this wasn't helped by the fact that dungeon queueing was cross-realm, so you could be as big of an asshole as possible and suffer no consequences whatsoever, since you'd most likely never see those people again.

I think the day I stopped playing my blood pressure dropped by at least a quarter.



As for Destiny: meh. I may have bought it if they hadn't done the following: not release it on pc. Seriously man? No PC release again? It's like you don't want the money, Bungie. And most importantly: the review embargo. Everyone who does this should go nail their balls to a fucking space hopper. This practice is more toxic to the industry than any transphobic misogynist you can find out there and I think it's a black mark on the journalistic industry that so many people actually adhere to this kind of bullshit.



EDIT:
Oh, totally forgot: and the worst thing about the vote to kick system is that you can't initiate it if you're in battle, so if the mongoloid asshole you're trying to kick keeps pulling, you can't even get rid of him at all.
That does sound believable to me. Although i should've mentioned that until i get that PS4 of mine, i am stuck with a 360 console. I have never really been convinced by the shallow spectacle of final fantasy games, but my increasing loneliness and desire to socialise with others could have easily pushed me to buying that game.

Oh and Jim...Destiny is on the 360 and PS3 too, remember? No one needs too fork out hundreds of currency points to play the damn thing.

Sigh. when the hell is Defiance going to be F2P on the 360? It is on the PS3! Im not spending money on that shit..
 

Fasckira

Dice Tart
Oct 22, 2009
1,678
0
0
I actually really like it, but in the way that when Shadows of Mordor comes out next month I may forget about it.

However I find the story to be ... amusing. Its pretty cliché but, but things like having the emos live out on the edge of the system where "light meets darkness" is pretty funny for a start! I see the story however as being nothing more than a vehicle to set up numerous types of missions in different settings, rather than an attempt to tell a gripping tale of heroic deeds.
 

Alleged_Alec

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Sep 2, 2008
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Xsjadoblayde said:
Alleged_Alec said:
That does sound believable to me. Although i should've mentioned that until i get that PS4 of mine, i am stuck with a 360 console. I have never really been convinced by the shallow spectacle of final fantasy games, but my increasing loneliness and desire to socialise with others could have easily pushed me to buying that game.
Same here. The reason I bought it was because all of my friends started playing it and I got immensely frustrated that I was unable to do anything with them. My experience with the game:

I made a monk, which was the only class they didn't play yet. I thought the system was very interesting, since monk attacks basically build on each other: you have a couple of tier 1,2, and 3 attacks, and you can only do a higher tier move after you've done the tier before it. Furthermore, they had this stack of cool buffs which you had to keep up, since it increased your attack speed by over 15% and gave something like 10/15% damage increase as well. It was a really fresh take and I enjoyed it for a while. However, I quickly found that most attacks in solo play were useless, since they relied on positioning yourself behind the target, which was practically impossible with mobs instantly auto-turning towards you.
I figured this would be better in instances, since they just focus on the tank. However, many tanks did not really understand the notion of threat and positioning the back of the mob towards the party (two things that every tank ever should be learned at level 1). Furthermore, many bosses/minibosses teleported frequently, making me drop my stacks of buffs and dropped my dps by 40% or so. Even still, I noticed that often tanks were still bad enough that I had to move out of auto-attack range or I would gain aggro.
My first instinct was to just not group with randoms, but I quickly found that was not an option: there are quite a few quests which force you to group with randoms to progress the story, and since mobs do not give enough exp to level on, I was forced to do so anyway. It was made worse by the daily dungeons, which give at least 3/4 of a level and require you to do a RANDOM DUNGEON from the entire pool you're eligible for, which also includes the lowest level dungeons, in which you are autoscaled to the level of the dungeon. This meant that often in dungeons, you could not play with your entire ability set. The phrase 'frustrating design choices' soon failed to be an adequate descriptor.
This was made worse by many of the quests, which are a main source of exp on your first job, to just send you from one place to another and talk with people. For some quests you may have to fight a few mobs, but the ones where you had to grind were far in between. This caused many of the people to not really know their class all that well, since combat was almost optional. But the most insulting bit was the story of those quests. You had a core cast of NPC dickwads which were supposed to be quite strong and important, but came off as bumbling morons every time they did something, and the worst thing was the amount of times you had to do stupid stuff yourself to continue the plot. I remember this quest where you were 'ambushed' (though if you didn't see it far in advance you may want to check your IQ). Since, as I said, the game was insultingly easy, I had no difficulty killing all the ambushing mobs and tank the infinitely spawning waves until the game told me that I had been captured, after which I was put in a prison. I decided I had enough of the story by then, walked out of the prison and went on my way. Or how every time you want to a new area, you got the 'prove your worth' bullshit over and over. Hell, there was MANDATORY STORY QUEST chain in which you asked a guy for information about a big bad, he said you weren't worthy until you got his five friends to say you were good. Each of those five had additional quests to prove your worth to them.

And to be honest: I found PS-users in the game to be highly frustrating to party with. They often couldn't communicate with others (since many didn't have keyboards) and had issues with positioning. Especially the second was frustrating, since the devs equated difficulty with red circles on the ground. Even if it hadn't any of the many other flaws it has, I would still advice against buying this on the PS, since it's so much inferior to the PC version due to bad controls.


Crafting system was somewhat interesting though, albeit insanely time consuming.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I played the Beta on the PS3 and felt like I had actually squirmed out most of the fun the game had to offer. The game's technical aspects are definitely competent, aside from the personally annoying fact that it borrows Borderland's structure of stonewalling difficulty behind levels. You stumble on enemies that clearly say "this isn't for you" on their little numbers above their heads, which are the very same you'll be one shotting without regards to skill a few hours later once leveled up, which ends up being lazy and immersion breaking. all games with open structure and leveling have these spikes and grindspots, but I just find the structure grating. at least in say, Dark souls, you can conceivably go through the game as SL1. Or at least you have a story to keep you on the path in NV.

So, all in all a huge technical feat (especially on the old consoles, which are milked for all they're worth), but saddened (albeit not surprised) to see that my impressions of the Beta match the criticisms most press are doing. Wonder how the game would fare had it not appeared right after an unusually long drought of big profile releases.
 

VinLAURiA

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Dec 25, 2008
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It sounds - and judging by the video review, looks - like a shinier but less interesting Firefall. And at least with Firefall I don't have to drop sixty bucks on top of the price of a console I have very little other reason to buy (and I don't already have a 360 or PS3, thank you.)

Not exactly regretting how this isn't coming to Wii U anymore.
 

Th37thTrump3t

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Shamanic Rhythm said:
myke66 said:
The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.
In that case I agree, it's definitely not worth 6/10. If you have to play it for twenty hours before it gets good, then it's more like a 4/10.
Isn't that like pretty much every MMO to date though? I can't think of a single MMO (or pseudo-MMO as far as Destiny is concerned) where the beginning isn't a complete slog and the game is open to you from the beginning.

Now, I'm not gonna say that Destiny is the gaming equivalent to the Mona Lisa, because it's not. But at the same time, it's still a good game. It just suffers from what every other major release this year has been suffering from, and that's just way too much hype.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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So the Crackdown 2 naming guy (henceforth referred to as 'The Namer') strikes again!

Why for you put MMO grind questing in a shooter? Don't they know that's commonly the worst part of those games?
 

Britisheagle

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May 21, 2009
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Daaaah Whoosh said:
I think the whole point of the blandness of Destiny is that it's not trying too hard to force you into its world. It gives you a beautiful canvas upon which you're supposed to write your story. That's why their motto is "Become Legend"; it's not about running through the three acts of someone else's life, it's about building friendships and having experiences that are meaningful to you. The universe doesn't feel lived in because we haven't been there long enough, it feels clean because we haven't had a chance to dirty it up.
And that is wherein lies the problem: What we do in the game world doesn't matter. You could form a party and fight through the camapign only for nothing to have changed. You are one of several thousand who walked them exact steps and achieved nothing as a result, in terms of the game world that is. Enemies, bosses, allies they will all still be there the next time you play the game and put quite simply, you cannot "Become Legend" when everyone else is too. The legend has already been written and you simply exist.

My biggest issue, funnily enough, is the unforgivable load times. Not only are they long but they are also frequent. Call me spoilt but games like Watchdogs, Last of Us, Diablo etc have made me think that a long load time at the start of the game means a seemless experience once the game gets going was becoming a staple for next-gen gaming. I understand that Destiny looks far better but I feel it ruins the immersion further and can make each level feel like the next part of a game rather than a flowing story. What makes games, especially open world and MMO games so good is that feeling of being part of a huge world where as Destiny makes you feel as though you are going from one soul less instance to another.
 

sumanoskae

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Wasn't interested in it anyway; I find FPS's tolerable at best and I loathe MMO's.

Is anyone really surprised? There was never anything about Destiny or it's hype machine to suggest innovation or substance; it looks like a typical FPS with a little bit of MMO mixed in.

I was expecting Destiny to be utterly pedestrian from day one, so this is no skin off my back. What does bother me, is that the industry is becoming increasingly cocksure with it's flagship products.

Both Destiny and the recent Watch_Dogs were so hyped up that it seemed like the industry had already decided they were going to be hits before they even came out; I almost want this game to tank just to subvert the negative assumptions that game developers and publishers make about their audience.
 

weirdee

Swamp Weather Balloon Gas
Apr 11, 2011
2,634
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Yeah, the "it gets better" argument only works for games that get REALLY better. If they can't lead in strong (and we're not talking about relying on 'in media res' crap, I mean actual good writing/design), then there's plenty of F2P games that try just as hard as they do. Relying solely on mechanics in this type of game won't work because it's not just a multiplayer FPS, and even then, Halo was at least trying to do more than that.

Anyway, it's sort of indicative of another trend, where developers start heavily developing the endgame because they expect all of their customers to be there, but leave everything at the beginning in utter shambles in the process, which creates this big ol' fence, or wall, where even as you've just paid for the game, now you have to pay this additional cost of the most pointless slog ever because somebody didn't know how to design a learning phase without making it actually fun. Cue high level players that complain that newbies haven't earned the right to have fun and they should pay like everybody else.
 

Poetic Nova

Pulvis Et Umbra Sumus
Jan 24, 2012
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Good thing the hype only made me turn off from this game, actually makes me want to give Warframe a shot if I knew for sure that my laptop could handle it. I'll wait untill halfway October and get myself Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel. Coming from a game-series that doesn't rely on constantly being online and knows how a loot-driven game should work.
 

Fsyco

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Th37thTrump3t said:
Shamanic Rhythm said:
myke66 said:
The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.
In that case I agree, it's definitely not worth 6/10. If you have to play it for twenty hours before it gets good, then it's more like a 4/10.
Isn't that like pretty much every MMO to date though? I can't think of a single MMO (or pseudo-MMO as far as Destiny is concerned) where the beginning isn't a complete slog and the game is open to you from the beginning.
There's some that have a really good 'hook' in the beginning. I played WoW many, many years ago, and I remember being absolutely enthralled when I first started playing. I played an Undead, and their starting zone is probably one of the most awesomely atmospheric things I've ever experienced. I also remember the slogginess not kicking in for a few levels (this was back in vanilla), so it gave the initial impression of things going relatively quickly to sucker you in.

WoW (and a few other MMOs) has heavily streamlined and quickened the early levels recently, so that you can get to the 'interesting', late-game bits faster. You do eventually reach a slower-paced part of the game (which last I checked was Pandaland, but they have that new expansion coming out soon so that will probably change), which depending on who you ask is either a dreadful, grindy slog or an appropriately lengthy and epic adventure that makes reaching the level cap feel like an achievement.
 

2HF

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Right Hook said:
myke66 said:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.
You have 2 posts. You joined today. This community totally values your input.
That's how you welcome new users to a forum to make them want to post more and have their opinions valued! Way to go!
 

LifelessArt

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Jun 6, 2013
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Destiny really does look like a fun game, to an extent, but there are some glaring issues that take the game down a couple of notches, which is sad when you consider Bungie's extensive history. I have a few thoughts on the matter that I went into greater detail about, but since I don't want to post a wall of text in here, I'll just put a link to the forum I posted in.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.860342-Destiny-First-Impressions-watered-down-Borderlands?page=2

And I'm sorry. I really do want to enjoy Destiny more, but boy does the story not make any sense. It really doesn't. Just read my last post and you'll see what I mean. A lot of the bad voice acting is a bit of a turn off as well. All in all, I can wait for a price drop, which will be easy seeing as I don't have a console to play on right now :p.

P.S. Thank God for Jim :D!
 

Right Hook

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2HF said:
Right Hook said:
myke66 said:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.
You have 2 posts. You joined today. This community totally values your input.
That's how you welcome new users to a forum to make them want to post more and have their opinions valued! Way to go!
Thanks dude, I try my best, it's not like he created the profile for the express purpose of bitching about a review he didn't enjoy for twenty minutes.
 

mezorin

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Jan 9, 2007
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The game has fairly solid shooting mechanics and a good PVP portion, and runs well. Just its kind of bland when it comes to stories and locales. Also 30 FPS doesn't cut it on Play Station 4/XBox One. Planetside 2 is the mother of all computer melters and SOE is committed to 60 FPS on Play Station 4, and its not as if Blizzard Activision is a scrappy little indie dev on a shoe string budget.

As Jim put it, the story has no real interesting characters, no heart, and its like everyone else is in on the joke other than your main character. It'd be one thing if the game was at a level of Guild Wars 2 where you had all these awesome characters doing awesome things and you're just kind of there, but shit is BORING and no real memorable characters exist in this world. The writing here makes Phantasy Star Online Universe look like MacBeth, you know your plot sucks when a glorified excuse to have anime moe maid bots shoot monsters is more exciting to read about than what ever is going on. I feel bad for the guy playing your Ghost, as he is just a "glorified plot monkey" that may as well be a Saturday chore to do list for FPS players.

If anything, the game feels like it is an engine test/balance test. Fantastic shooter mechanics and I have only seen one DC so far, the game does justice to its Halo pedigree for coop mayham and multiplayer, but the world/story is bland. Hopefully the DLCs and sequels are far better written and interesting, like what they did with Saint's Row 2 compared to 1 now that they've nailed the shooting mechanics. Like a computer synthesizer reading Bach, the game technically paints by the numbers mechanically as a shooter, but has no real personality.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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Th37thTrump3t said:
Shamanic Rhythm said:
myke66 said:
The game is designed with "end game" in mind. You arent meant to spend most of your time on the campaign, you get through the campaign to begin gearing up your character for the challenges setup to be done at max level.
In that case I agree, it's definitely not worth 6/10. If you have to play it for twenty hours before it gets good, then it's more like a 4/10.
Isn't that like pretty much every MMO to date though? I can't think of a single MMO (or pseudo-MMO as far as Destiny is concerned) where the beginning isn't a complete slog and the game is open to you from the beginning.

Now, I'm not gonna say that Destiny is the gaming equivalent to the Mona Lisa, because it's not. But at the same time, it's still a good game. It just suffers from what every other major release this year has been suffering from, and that's just way too much hype.
I haven't played it, so I have no comment on whether or not it's a good game.

However, any game that isn't interesting from the get-go is just not worth my money. Ever. And I disagree, my memories of Guild Wars, Vanilla WoW, even ToR are of very much enjoying the beginning of the game. Even Age of Conan was pretty good in the beginning, come to think of it.
 

Guilen-

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Mar 14, 2009
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This review has guaranteed I won't take Escapist's game reviews seriously for some time, I wager. Destiny is one of the best games I've ever played.
 

Sidmen

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Guilen- said:
This review has guaranteed I won't take Escapist's game reviews seriously for some time, I wager. Destiny is one of the best games I've ever played.
Do you actually disagree with anything said in the review?

I just stopped playing Destiny (mostly because my eyes were burning after a 6-hour session) and I can't disagree with anything here.

My biggest gripe about the game is that its weapons kinda suck. The Automatic Rifle is a pile of recoil pretending to be a gun, and both the scout(semi-auto) and pulse (burst-fire) guns were WAY too weak for me. I was having fun for a while with the Hand Cannon, since I can't stand pumping a ton of bullets into a baddie before he goes down (2-3 shots is good for me). Until they gave me an "upgrade" that, yeah, increases damage but reduces the ammo size from 6 to 3. Just enough bullets for me to wish I could find a copy of my old gun before I get murdered.

Boss monsters can go die in a fire, though. They have approximately 10 BILLION health and take only 10 damage from most hits (20 if you use the Hand Cannon like me). Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like I should have to head shot a baddie 100 times before he dies.

And then there are the shielded enemies. Oh how do I hate shields. My 3-round pistol will almost knock out a shield, but the reload animation takes about as long as their recharge cycle - so it takes forever for me to knock them out. I usually have to wait for my grenade to recharge and pin them in a corner or something.
 

IceStar100

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Jan 5, 2009
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Right Hook said:
myke66 said:
Pretty piss poor review in my opinion. Harps on the story and downplays the best parts of the game to push the "edgey" bad review out of Destiny. Author even admits he's still hooked and enjoying it.
You have 2 posts. You joined today. This community totally values your input.
That not a point in it's favor. Even putting your hand on a hot stove gets better the longer you wait.
 

Zydrate

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Regrettably, the Achievement Hunter crew got sucked into the Hype Tornado and are planning on doing SEVERAL let's play's of this. The game does look a "little" fun, but I'm not willing to sit through seven LP's of it like they did with Titanfall, which got boring after episode 2.
 

Thanatos2k

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Jim may be cowardly about speaking up regarding Gamergate, but thankfully he's still brave enough to give overhyped overmarketed games like this what they deserve.

When there was very blatantly a review embargo in place and no reviews at or before the launch date you knew what was going on.
 

Trippy Turtle

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Half the article was spent saying its an MMO, then you complain about the lack of a decent story? What MMO has a decent story? Bungie has said from the start its all about about the endgame content, yet over half the article is spent complaining about a small portion of the game that functions more like a tutorial and tour of the game than the meat of it. Beyond that though, the article has barely any actual points about the game. PC like menus? What do you want from the game, voice control or something? As for being unimaginative, he's complaining about the names. I can't name a single other AAA game that even bothers to go as far as making the 'headshot' for an enemy something other than the head. At least the vex had that. Its not much, but if hes going to call it unimaginative he might as well sign up every other AAA title from Assassins Creed to Skyrim as unimaginative as well.
It didn't live up to the hype, but people are seriously deluded if they think Destiny is worse than your average game.

The only complaint to be found that I agree with is the similarity between classes. They shied too far away from becoming too much of an MMO that its almost just a regular shooter. A few more abilities and different options for playstyles would have been nice.
 

Sanunes

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I was able to try the game on Saturday and its not that bad of a game for I found it enjoyable enough, but felt like something was missing from the game. Now I might have picked it up if it was available for the PC because I am looking for a combat driven game for when I just want to spend a short time in a game and not get bogged down with story or stuck having to spend a lot of time to reach a save point, but it would have needed a PC release for me to do that or I would have needed to buy a console and its not good enough for me to want to spend the money on a console just to buy this game.
 

Steve2911

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May 3, 2010
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I find the swipe at the UI pretty interesting. That's the one part of the game that's gotten pretty much universal acclaim from what I've seen. It's an incredibly clever bit of design.
 

Spushkin

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Nov 2, 2011
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Total Biscuit tweeted this nice article about the Destiny UI:

http://mikebithell.tumblr.com/post/97214168242/what-to-steal-from-destinys-ui


As far as the game is concerned, I'm enjoying it. It's certainly a bit less "epic" than I wanted it to be, and I wish they spent less on marketing, building the hype too much, so that the game cannot live up to it. Still, the fun so far has been had. I like the fact that there is not an insane amount of useless loot, but almost everything I find improves a bit on what I already have. I like the design, from UI to weapons and equipment. I like the combat and the random fireteams.

And I like Bungie's idea with events, and I think it'll be great if only they keep it up regularly.
 

Vareoth

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Mar 14, 2012
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Very good and fair review, even if I don't completely agree with it. Personally I'm currently thoroughly enjoying myself with my friends. The story is light but the gameplay mechanics are rock-solid. I haven't had this much fun with a game for quite a long time. How much you will enjoy yourself with this game will largely depend on how much repetition you can stomach. But to each his own of course.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
3,147
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myke66 said:
You explained the reasoning for your feeling in your opening remarks. "A short time playing". The game fleshes itself out the longer you play. I challenge you to come back here after you have completed the first Strike on the Moon and see if your feels are the same. I will tell you that it didnt really "hook" me until around level 10-15.

This is my main gripe with this review, the thing reads like the author never even reached max level to see all the game has to offer.
If a game has to be finished to be enjoyed then it's a badly designed game. People have better things to do with their time than finish a game their not enjoying with the hope that it'll get better later. I played the Alpha and I couldn't get into the universe of the game, just felt like MMO's (WoW/STO/TOR etc) mixed with Boarderlands with Mass Effect looks. At first I thought that'd be cool but unfortuently it's missing the extra spice of each game that made them good.
 

RicoADF

Welcome back Commander
Jun 2, 2009
3,147
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Fsyco said:
That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing.
I don't get that, in Australia (or atleast here in NSW) the grading system is (from memory, I may be alittle off on the exact percentages for Distinction and High Distinction):
1-49% - Fail
50-60% - Pass
61-70% - Credit
80-90% - Distinction
90-100% - High Distinction

That's how I view games rating systems, a 5-6 is an ok game that'd be fun but not great, a possible $10 bargain bin sale.
6-7 would be a fun game worth getting when the price drops a little or if the price is already lower then worth getting soon, depending on what the game is about. Usually their good games/ideas with some issues with them
8-9 is a great game worth getting soon, if it's the right type of game (eg: space sim) then it'd be buy asap.
10 Would be an awesome game that must buy asap, do not miss. There's obviously not many of these games around.
 

Ironshroom

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Fsyco said:
Charcharo said:
People.
A 6/10 is NOT a bad score with Jim. Not at all.
It is above average. Good.

The average score for video games should be around 5. Maybe just a tad more.
Currently it is around 7...
That is not right.
That's probably because most people think of scores in terms of school grades. It's pretty natural, really. People think of a new, abstract thing in terms of something else they understand better. The reason you have the '7-9' scale is because in school, knowing at least 70% of the material means you pass the class, and below that is considered failing. Shifting it down just fucks with people's heads, since they have nothing else to really compare it too. While a 6 means an above-average score, and that Jim liked the game, people think he's giving it a failing grade.

Of course, that's assuming you normalize the distribution of scores so that, by definition, 5 is in the middle, which means you have to compare it to other games, which is a bit of an issue if you have a big glut of shit games, since games have certain objective indicators of quality (technical stuff, like how it performs and controls). I have no idea how you'd factor in objective AND comparitive, subjective stuff into calculating a single score.

In short: Making a decent scoring system is hard and complex. Personally, I vote to scrap it all together since I, like Yahtzee, believe opinions cannot be properly expressed by a single number, but alot of people seem to like them and want to keep them, so we're stuck with the system we have.
Funny you say that, when I was in school, I did the IB and it was marked so harshly that a pass was generally 30% with full marks being around 70%
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
16,755
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I only have one problem with this review. The Warlock's don't have problems getting to higher ground. You can get a bit of height pretty easily using the glide skill. Might take a little work to get used to it, but once you do it shouldn't be a problem.

Other than that, I'd say the review is pretty fair. I'd probably give the game a 3.5/5 or 4/5. Personally, I really enjoy it.

Anyway, back to Destiny!
 

silasbufu

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I have a new PS4, so my friend list is emtpy. I don't have many real-life friends who own a ps4 yet and those who do, are not interested in Destiny. I am having a hard time understanding how the co-op matchmaking works in this game. Do i need to have my headset on at all times to ask people what mission they are doing when in the tower? When questing I stumble upon players doing different stuff but everything is chaotic, an "every man for himself" style. How do I know what mission that person is doing and if he wants to join up? I don't want to compare it to Borderlands because they're two different games, but that system felt so much easier and natural. I like the game, but what made me want to buy it was the multiplayer side(mostly co-op), but I'm dissappointed. I guess I need to convince some friends to buy it..
 

Netrigan

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WhiteFangofWar said:
So the Crackdown 2 naming guy (henceforth referred to as 'The Namer') strikes again!

Why for you put MMO grind questing in a shooter? Don't they know that's commonly the worst part of those games?
One of the reasons Borderlands 2 is so much better than the first. They got rid of the respawn pits and Kill X Bandits missions. Plus lots of story-based voice over so you didn't loose sight of the story.
 

Raziel

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Jul 20, 2013
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The idea that the game gets good after 20 is crap. All you do is get a few new skills. The game doesn't change or improve at all. In fact it gets worse steadily. Going through the same stupid mission the 11th time is horribly boring. It doesn't get better going in 12, 13, 14, 15, 16....times. And ramping up the enemy health and defense so that your maxed guns are just as crappy as the guns you start the game with makes leveling pointless.

With any luck some of the new games coming out will actually be good and give people something else to play so this can fall by the way side.
 

myke66

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Sep 11, 2014
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Raziel said:
The idea that the game gets good after 20 is crap. All you do is get a few new skills. The game doesn't change or improve at all. In fact it gets worse steadily. Going through the same stupid mission the 11th time is horribly boring. It doesn't get better going in 12, 13, 14, 15, 16....times. And ramping up the enemy health and defense so that your maxed guns are just as crappy as the guns you start the game with makes leveling pointless.

With any luck some of the new games coming out will actually be good and give people something else to play so this can fall by the way side.
It's not crap at all, its how its designed. If you havent played an MMO before, or even like MMOs, then Destiny is not for you - and thats fine. But its not a bad game because you dont like the genere. Thats like saying the new FIFA sucks because it doesnt have any guns.

No one is saying the game before 20 is crap either, the only point is that at 20 MORE opens up to do, not all of a sudden a magic switch turns on and all the fun comes pouring out. The game is about the gunplay, which it does extremely well. Harping on the story is silly for a game like this, something that people NOT PLAYING arent grasping.

It's very simple, if you like Diablo-style dungeon crawlers, then you will love Destiny. If you don't, then you wont like Destiny. The problem with this review is that he reviewed Destiny as if it was a Halo sequel, not in the MMO ARRG genere that its in.

Also, I can say that now after putting in many hours into the game with 2/3 classes maxed, the game is addicting as hell and tons of fun. The raid that was just released is epic, and not at all a let down. This is a progressive game where new content and events will constantly be streaming out into the world.

If you can't see the flaws of how this was reviewed on this site, then you are being willfully ignorant to the fact it was done improperly. Not bashing on this community so no need to get offended, but the reviewer lacked the perspective to review this game.


To put it in better words than I can, please read this:
http://www.gamesradar.com/if-youre-worried-about-destinys-longevity-or-level-cap-you-dont-understand-destiny/
 

Raziel

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Jul 20, 2013
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No you won't love this if you like loot games like diablo. Diablo and good games like it have a steady progress curve. Destiny has a freaking wall that you have to grind for DAYS unless you are super lucky to get even 1 piece of improved equipment.

If you cannot see how every aspect of this game is flawed you are willfully ignorant of games that do these things right.And lack perspective just because you like it.
 

myke66

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Sep 11, 2014
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Raziel said:
No you won't love this if you like loot games like diablo. Diablo and good games like it have a steady progress curve. Destiny has a freaking wall that you have to grind for DAYS unless you are super lucky to get even 1 piece of improved equipment.

If you cannot see how every aspect of this game is flawed you are willfully ignorant of games that do these things right.And lack perspective just because you like it.
There is no "wall", you are making that up. There are multiple progression paths to get your lvl 20+. Every aspect of the game is not flawed, thats a hyperbole just trying to bash the game. Sounds familiar.

This game does have a progression curve. Notice how the monsters gain more and more abilities as you level up? Run the earth missions on heroic and you'll see the "curve".

Sounds like you haven't really played Destiny and are just regurgitating random things you've read on the internet.

And seriously, you complain about grinding for days on an MMO. This isnt a flaw of the game, this is the intended gameplay. Again, if you like games like Diablo this is normal. You do nothing BUT grind in diablo.


Optional Upgrade Paths...
>Strikes
>Heroic Missions
>Daily/Weekly Missions
>Strange Coins
>Motes of Light
>Vanguard Marks
>Crucible Marks
>Engrams
>Raiding
 

ash12181987

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Nov 9, 2010
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I really think the thing I find funniest about this review, is that on an add I saw on Hulu, Destiny quoted the Escapist in saying something about a "Masterful" game.

I actually went back and watched the review again after seeing that, so I could laugh my ass off.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
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Well average is certainly better than bad I suppose. I guess they can always try again with DLC story updates and such. I'm pretty sure the only thing they are worrying about is making back that 500 million dollar development cost. So hey, whatever keeps people playing, they are solid.
 

benvorbeck

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Mar 18, 2011
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ash12181987 said:
I really think the thing I find funniest about this review, is that on an add I saw on Hulu, Destiny quoted the Escapist in saying something about a "Masterful" game.

I actually went back and watched the review again after seeing that, so I could laugh my ass off.
I honestly dont understand why the escapist gets this attention with these underqualified staff like Jim... this review is more a statement of his attitude towards an overhiped game than actually properly giving the game the score it deserves
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Aug 3, 2011
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Good review, also recently watched the Angry Joe review also. Only thing ive heard about this game is that its mediocre though they promise it will get better in the future with extra expansion packs. If im charged full price then i expect an awesome product, not a mediocre product with promises it will get better if i throw them more money.
 

ash12181987

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Nov 9, 2010
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benvorbeck said:
ash12181987 said:
I really think the thing I find funniest about this review, is that on an add I saw on Hulu, Destiny quoted the Escapist in saying something about a "Masterful" game.

I actually went back and watched the review again after seeing that, so I could laugh my ass off.
I honestly dont understand why the escapist gets this attention with these underqualified staff like Jim... this review is more a statement of his attitude towards an overhiped game than actually properly giving the game the score it deserves
Unqualified?

Okay, whatever. Man, if only the escapist had those old and wizzened reviewers... those guys who their grandfathers had been board game reviewers. All these Nouveau riche game reviewers. What is the world coming to.
 

Ldude893

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Apr 2, 2010
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So basically, it's the Waterworld of video games. It's an incredibly expensively produced product that looks incredibly pretty, but the story's mediocre, the gameplay can be a chore, and unlike Waterworld none of the characters are memorable at all.

Gigantic budgets do not guarantee a great game, that's for sure. At least that's a comforting thought for developers wanting to make better games with much smaller budgets.
 

squid5580

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Feb 20, 2008
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Flunk said:
I hate any shooter that requires you "level up" to do basic things. It's infuriating to have my aim screwed up or be otherwise artificially limited. It ruins the whole thing for me. So now that I know that I'm going to give Destiny a pass, glad I read this review.

If they must have unlocks they should just lock down the weapons so you have less choice and can unlock more choice or slight upgrades.
No the levelling system is nothing like that. You are just as good with a gun at level 1 as you are at 21. When you level (which you gain skills even without going up a level) just lets you use up to lvl 20 gear which of course you think would be better than level 1 gear. But the reality of it is it's not. All the level system does (which is separate from your skills) is put a wall between you and higher level areas. Your skills give you bonuses to armor and recovery as well as your special class specific space magic. And grenades, you have to gain the skill to throw grenades.

So here is how the guns vs level work. I am a level 27 hunter decked out with legendary lvl 20 gear. I go to Earth which is the starter area filled with level 1 mooks. My auto rifle gun damage is 250 (roughly) so I should roflstomp these guys right? No because I do about 15 points body damage to them so it takes me 3-4 shots to kill them just like it did when I first got there at level 1. Although they have a harder time killing me (I would probably have to idle for 5 minutes for them to do it). Now if I go down some stairs in the same area there is 3 level 18 elites hanging out (because exploring is frowned upon) I do upwards of 50 to 60 body damage to them and they hurt me more. If you were to go down those stairs at say level 5 you will die. You will not hurt them. They are immune to your level 5 bullets. And if they hit you with any splash damage it is over. The levelling system is just a way to force you to grind for gear. Since once you hit 20 you stop levelling and any level past that comes from your armor. And let me tell you that the drop rates for gear are terrible. But you won't be able to do any of the high level content unless you are above level 20 (which other than the raid all the content is the same with tougher enemies).
 

squid5580

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myke66 said:
Raziel said:
No you won't love this if you like loot games like diablo. Diablo and good games like it have a steady progress curve. Destiny has a freaking wall that you have to grind for DAYS unless you are super lucky to get even 1 piece of improved equipment.

If you cannot see how every aspect of this game is flawed you are willfully ignorant of games that do these things right.And lack perspective just because you like it.
There is no "wall", you are making that up. There are multiple progression paths to get your lvl 20+. Every aspect of the game is not flawed, thats a hyperbole just trying to bash the game. Sounds familiar.

This game does have a progression curve. Notice how the monsters gain more and more abilities as you level up? Run the earth missions on heroic and you'll see the "curve".

Sounds like you haven't really played Destiny and are just regurgitating random things you've read on the internet.

And seriously, you complain about grinding for days on an MMO. This isnt a flaw of the game, this is the intended gameplay. Again, if you like games like Diablo this is normal. You do nothing BUT grind in diablo.


Optional Upgrade Paths...
>Strikes
>Heroic Missions
>Daily/Weekly Missions
>Strange Coins
>Motes of Light
>Vanguard Marks
>Crucible Marks
>Engrams
>Raiding
I have played Destiny. I have a lvl 27 hunter. And there is a huge wall. Hmm lets do a lvl 24 strike for a lvl 16 piece of gear. The raid is behind a lvl 26 wall (amongst other things like no match making as well as the weekly daily strikes). And what was the reward for those people who did the raid? Oh yeah armor shaders.

Diablo is all grind sure. But grinding with surprises. Any dungeon you run is going to spit out loot. Sure it may not be as good as what you have but it will be close and useable. At least it is worth trying. Destiny doesn't make it worth trying. After running 20 lvl 24 strikes to get the vanguard marks weekly cap so the next week I could buy a couple pieces of armor I saw 2 a total of 2 legendary engrams drop (neither of which were for me). And I don't know if they actually got a legendary from them or if it was just a blue. The marks, coins and light are just bloody currency (and don't forget you need reputation to be able to spend marks which you will max out on marks long before you hit the rep requirements). Diablo is about grinding for the excitement of picking up that really cool item that you didn't know you needed til you found it. Destiny is about working 9 - 5 for less than minimum wage so you can buy that gear you need so you can work for minimum wage the next week. But hey in Destiny if you are maxed on your marks and can't afford that helmet or gun you need (because the cap is 100 and a helmet or gun is 120 - 150) you can always shoot a cave for hours and maybe get some loot that way (because that is the only way). Just don't expect those legendary engrams to turn into legendary gear. Odds are they are just rares