Destiny Ushers in a New Era of Blatant Cash Grabs

GloatingSwine

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FoolKiller said:
The problem is that this doesn't even tick off MMORPG boxes. Those tend to have stories. The problem here is the story is not in the game.
MMOs have stories, but even the most story oriented players will skip them after their first toon. They also usually have terrible stories which utterly fail to account for the fact that whatever you're doing is also simultaneously being done, has just been done, and is about to be done by a thousand other goons just like you.

The problem with Destiny is not a lack of story. It could even drop the pretence of having a story and just let players roam around shooting stuff to get loot if the loot was interesting and worthwhile (it isn't) and there was a varied and interesting set of endgame content (there isn't).

Destiny could have the greatest story in the world of videogames, and right now it would still be terrible at what it was trying to deliver as a gameplay experience, because the gameplay experience is badly designed and full of problems that have been solved by other games for literally a decade or more.

Stop believing that every videogame has to have a story, they don't, story is only one of many things which videogames can deliver (and putting a story where one doesn't belong can make a game worse. Borderlands 2, for instance, was changed to incorporate "moar story" because whiners whined that Blands 1 didn't have one. And you know what that did? Fucked it up. Because literally every time the "story" rears its ugly head it makes the game worse by arbitrarily interfering with your ability to troll around Pandora doing odd jobs for random psychopaths (and reducing the quantity and quality of same, Blands 1 has way more sidequests and ergo more reason to drive around zones doing them and finding new stuff.) and getting newer and shinier guns.
 

RicoADF

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Jun 2, 2009
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Adam Jensen said:
And Yahtzee, why haven't you reviewed Shadow Warrior yet? You're not a simpleton so what's your excuse?
He probably couldn't find anything wrong with it which as he stated in his portal video is in his contract :p

OT: Can't say Destiny failing horribly surprised me and I was even less suprised that lots of people were silly enough to fall for the garbage because even it's cover screams Halo (seriously the character on the main poster looks like Master Chief).
 

Rangerboy87

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Adam Jensen said:
Destiny, to me, represents a poster child is wrong with the AAA industry. It's got everything that I absolutely despise about video game, and it doesn't have one crucial thing - a fuckin' soul. It's a soulless and completely unoriginal cash grab. How the fuck did so many people fall for the hype?
I sure didn't. Watched the rehearsed demo at last year's E3 if I remember right, and I thought then it was meh. And then everyone gushed about it. I was so confused. Maybe Yahtzee's pessimistic expectations for games is sinking in, but I never thought this looked like the next big thing (Watchdogs gave a better impression). So glad I was right, staying far away from this game

On a side note, what if you're a single player guy but like your ketchup in the fridge? I am having such an identity crisis right now.
 

gamegod25

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Adam Jensen said:
Destiny, to me, represents a poster child is wrong with the AAA industry. It's got everything that I absolutely despise about video game, and it doesn't have one crucial thing - a fuckin' soul. It's a soulless and completely unoriginal cash grab. How the fuck did so many people fall for the hype?
Probably because (to paraphrase a Silent Hill meme) there was a game here, it's gone now...

Despite Bungie's PR denial I think it's pretty obvious that they did have a lot more story and bigger world at one point but, as happens all to often, the suits upstairs got their grubby mitts on it and torn it to shreds in the name of greed and just plain not knowing thing one about videogames. They can't ever openly admit it though, much like Maxis having to take the blame for Simcity 5 despite everyone knowing it was EA's dumb ideas forced upon them.

The suits who know nothing about making games having way too much control over making a game; this is why we can't have nice things.
 

Notshauna

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I'm glad the moment I saw Destiny I sort of laughed at how much it promised, it was insane. I didn't expect to see probably the least creative thing ever designed by man, never has there been a bigger example of all sparkle no substance. I actually think Destiny should win some rewards it's amazing that a game that cost that much and had that much marketing is entirely hollow, there isn't even a single lick of design in the whole thing.
 

doomrider7

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Notshauna said:
I'm glad the moment I saw Destiny I sort of laughed at how much it promised, it was insane. I didn't expect to see probably the least creative thing ever designed by man, never has there been a bigger example of all sparkle no substance. I actually think Destiny should win some rewards it's amazing that a game that cost that much and had that much marketing is entirely hollow, there isn't even a single lick of design in the whole thing.
I still remember it being hailed as the next Halo and all the gifs from Last of Us of a character with the PS logo decapitating a character with an Xbox logo. I also remember telling people to wait and see before trusting the massive marketing extravaganza.
 

Stillgard

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Jun 6, 2011
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Adam Jensen said:
Destiny, to me, represents a poster child is wrong with the AAA industry. It's got everything that I absolutely despise about video game, and it doesn't have one crucial thing - a fuckin' soul. It's a soulless and completely unoriginal cash grab. How the fuck did so many people fall for the hype?
Just to be clear, As soon as I saw it's Dark Heart of a "Spunk Gargle Wee Wee." Er, I mean MMO in the Beta. I had to hold back my excitement on my guilds mumble server and slowly explain why Though. And then shortly after. Ran for the hills. Well I say run I mean slowly walk to the hills. And go back to playing something halfway meaningful. Like Life is Feudal.
 

Aaron Sylvester

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"Blatant cash grab"? Why is that a bad thing? It's obviously what consumers want, did you SEE how much money Destiny made (and is still making)?

Consumers made Destiny possible. Hype driven sheep pre-ordering everything in sight, one really can't blame developers/publishers for exploiting that mentality and rolling in profit. I'd do it if I was in their shoes.

If marketing/hype alone is enough to turn a profit and be considered successful, then that's exactly what publishers/developers will pour their money+effort into (instead of the actual game).
 

Stillgard

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Jun 6, 2011
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Aaron Sylvester said:
"Blatant cash grab"? Why is that a bad thing? It's obviously what consumers want, did you SEE how much money Destiny made (and is still making)?

Consumers made Destiny possible. Hype driven sheep pre-ordering everything in sight, one really can't blame developers/publishers for exploiting that mentality and rolling in profit. I'd do it if I was in their shoes.

If marketing/hype alone is enough to turn a profit and be considered successful, then that's exactly what publishers/developers will pour their money+effort into (instead of the actual game).
Well just making it a way to rake cash in is enough to wrinkle nose hairs. But the fact of it is this. We're used to games being for the gamers. Now if Bungie we're to make the game better. It'd probably be all fine and good. But there in lies the dilemma. We all know that the game cost upward of 500$ mill to make. Which means Bungie isn't fixated on the game. But rather the gamer's in general. And Destiny falls out of the limelight just like Titan fall or Doom 3.
 

Zetatrain

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GloatingSwine said:
FoolKiller said:
The problem is that this doesn't even tick off MMORPG boxes. Those tend to have stories. The problem here is the story is not in the game.
MMOs have stories, but even the most story oriented players will skip them after their first toon. They also usually have terrible stories which utterly fail to account for the fact that whatever you're doing is also simultaneously being done, has just been done, and is about to be done by a thousand other goons just like you.
Eh, personally this never really bothered me, though I can understand why it bugs some. I've just always been able to ignore it.
GloatingSwine said:
The problem with Destiny is not a lack of story. It could even drop the pretence of having a story and just let players roam around shooting stuff to get loot if the loot was interesting and worthwhile (it isn't) and there was a varied and interesting set of endgame content (there isn't).
The story, as wells as its lore and world building, is certainly one of its problems. Honestly I feel like the reason a lot of people harp on the story is that i was probably easiest things they could have gotten right out of all the things they did wrong. Creating a bare bones story to give you even the slightest reason to care about who you are, where you are, and what you are shooting at would have been a hell of a lot easier that trying to make FPS or MMO gameplay fresh and interesting. And yet Bungie can't even do so much as put a damn codex inside the game. Giving it a better story wouldn't have fixed it's gameplay issues but at least it would have motivated people to play the game a little longer and maybe at least finish the campaign.
GloatingSwine said:
Destiny could have the greatest story in the world of videogames, and right now it would still be terrible at what it was trying to deliver as a gameplay experience, because the gameplay experience is badly designed and full of problems that have been solved by other games for literally a decade or more.
Well it would have at least been an interesting experience story wise in the same way Spec Ops: The Line was a good experience despite its mediocre game play, at least IMO.

GloatingSwine said:
Stop believing that every videogame has to have a story, they don't, story is only one of many things which videogames can deliver (and putting a story where one doesn't belong can make a game worse. Borderlands 2, for instance, was changed to incorporate "moar story" because whiners whined that Blands 1 didn't have one. And you know what that did? Fucked it up. Because literally every time the "story" rears its ugly head it makes the game worse by arbitrarily interfering with your ability to troll around Pandora doing odd jobs for random psychopaths (and reducing the quantity and quality of same, Blands 1 has way more sidequests and ergo more reason to drive around zones doing them and finding new stuff.) and getting newer and shinier guns.
Really? I never felt that the story interfered with your ability to go wherever you wanted whenever you wanted though then again i liked the story. In fact the story was one reason why I played through the game three time where as I only played through BL1 once. While BL1 did have more side quests I felt that BL2 and had more variety in it's side quests and even when the side quests did start becoming derivative at least sometimes they had some wacky character talking over the radio. With BL1 my only reason to do the side quests was to get loot and once that wasn't good enough there was no reason to do them. With BL2 even when the loot was worthless it was still interesting to see how some of the side quests ended.

And while BL1's story was pretty dry Destiny's story is so non-existent that it makes BL1 look like a masterpiece by comparison.

Now I agree that not every game needs a story, but for me if someone is gonna make an MMO or open world game they better put in at least a little bit of effort into fleshing out that game's world otherwise why even bother. That or the gameplay better be revolutionary.
 

Doug

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Yahtzee said:
Or at least roll back the average triple-A game development budget to a conservative ten billion squillion dollars.
*expels a huge cloud of coughed up cigar smoke*
What-what-what!?!? If we spent so little on development, how could we get the artisans to hand-craft every frame? There are 30 of them every second, and these poor artisans deserve pay - their poor little wrists are gnarled, horrible things after having to paint so fast. And if we paid them enough (which we don't), how would our poor share-holders sleep at night knowing we could have spent more?
*puffs on his cigar so more*
Its like you think we're being unnecessarily extravagant and you don't want to paid for stupidly over the top means of delivering the pretty screens to you.
 

FoolKiller

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GloatingSwine said:
Stop believing that every videogame has to have a story, they don't, story is only one of many things which videogames can deliver (and putting a story where one doesn't belong can make a game worse. Borderlands 2, for instance, was changed to incorporate "moar story" because whiners whined that Blands 1 didn't have one. And you know what that did? Fucked it up. Because literally every time the "story" rears its ugly head it makes the game worse by arbitrarily interfering with your ability to troll around Pandora doing odd jobs for random psychopaths (and reducing the quantity and quality of same, Blands 1 has way more sidequests and ergo more reason to drive around zones doing them and finding new stuff.) and getting newer and shinier guns.
Actually I don't believe every video game has to have a story. But this one does, and it does, but outside of the game. And Borderlands had a great story or at least great side stories, it just had terrible delivery. The mission descriptions existed as the delivery of a lot of story. And the best part of 1 was the addition of The Secret Armory of General Knoxx which gave more in the way of story. I love Borderlands 2 more than I loved part 1 and I put over 250 hours into part 1.

Ironically its the story and its telling that makes me want to come back. There are so many broken concepts in the series that need fixing but haven`t been dealt with properly in either game. Don`t get me wrong. I love the gameplay at its core but there are too many flaws not to get irritated by it.

And thats what makes it great. The series manages to satisfy both of those needs. Destiny fails to meet any of them. Destiny does only one thing well and that is the combat which, since Halo: Evolved, hasn`t. But there is no reason for Bungie to mess with what isn`t broken. Unfortunately, everything else is.
 

Aristatide

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Muspelheim said:
Darkness665 said:
I got tired of all the hype and started another pass through Fallout 3. Quite fun and while green and brown it is more entertaining than the modern bits. I still cannot bring myself to get the dream crusher perk though.
I felt the same, really. That or boot up Stalker again. To me, sandboxes have always felt a bit needless if I'm not made to search every nook and cranny of them for cigarettes or old potato crisps to keep me alive. Or potions and rare books in the Elder Scroll's case.
Aha! Thank you, you've helped me articulate something. I'm one of those Eternally Late to the Party types (This summer I wrote a review of FFXIII! How's that for timely!) and I have just finally discovered the joy of Saint's Row 2 after someone at a party told me if San Andreas was my favorite GTA game, I needed to mug someone to get a copy of SR if that's what it took. And it's true, I am freakin' loving the game... but the big shininess of the world sort of... lacks something. There's no weapons or obscure cars tucked in odd corners, and there aren't nearly enough collectibles/secrets to make me feel like prowling through all the nooks and crannies of this giant city is worth it. It's sad, because I love the game like I said, but I very quickly got to the point of, "Do I want to go exploring weird bits? ...nah, I won't even find an exciting an unexpected stash of pimps to murder."
 

Aristatide

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FoolKiller said:
Actually I don't believe every video game has to have a story. But this one does, and it does, but outside of the game.
You know, I got to thinking about it, and I'm starting to wonder if this is just a new trend for big budget titles now? I mean, think about FFXIII: Final Fantasy is a series known for its storytelling, but it is flat-out impossible to make full sense of what the hell is happening in XIII unless you take yourself out of gameplay and pour obsessively over the info text you're given. What, snubbed the info text for a few chapters because you were, you know, playing the game? Too bad, we've changed the info in them since then! (I had to look a character I was supposed to know things about up on the wiki, ftlog.) And the odd thing is, once you start decoding it, there's actually some quite interesting story to it, especially in the course of the Missions as you work out why the Fal'Cie were making so damn many L'Cie on Pulse. But you know, I'd guess 99% of the people who have played that game and even done all the Missions never worked that out, because actually explaining it to us would take time away from the GLORIOUS VISUAL SPECTACLE. And Destiny, too, seems to be very GLORIOUS VISUAL SPECTACLE-oriented: I was excited about it for a while myself when some early shots were released. But GLORIOUS VISUAL SPECTACLE in a game that claims to have a good story just, you know, not here, well it's a bit like being given a slice of delicious-looking cake and discovering it's just icing over styrofoam. Some people really like icing and will still be pleased, but even so it's a really disturbing choice to make.
 

FoolKiller

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Aristatide said:
FoolKiller said:
Actually I don't believe every video game has to have a story. But this one does, and it does, but outside of the game.
You know, I got to thinking about it, and I'm starting to wonder if this is just a new trend for big budget titles now? I mean, think about FFXIII: Final Fantasy is a series known for its storytelling, but it is flat-out impossible to make full sense of what the hell is happening in XIII unless you take yourself out of gameplay and pour obsessively over the info text you're given. What, snubbed the info text for a few chapters because you were, you know, playing the game? Too bad, we've changed the info in them since then! (I had to look a character I was supposed to know things about up on the wiki, ftlog.) And the odd thing is, once you start decoding it, there's actually some quite interesting story to it, especially in the course of the Missions as you work out why the Fal'Cie were making so damn many L'Cie on Pulse. But you know, I'd guess 99% of the people who have played that game and even done all the Missions never worked that out, because actually explaining it to us would take time away from the GLORIOUS VISUAL SPECTACLE. And Destiny, too, seems to be very GLORIOUS VISUAL SPECTACLE-oriented: I was excited about it for a while myself when some early shots were released. But GLORIOUS VISUAL SPECTACLE in a game that claims to have a good story just, you know, not here, well it's a bit like being given a slice of delicious-looking cake and discovering it's just icing over styrofoam. Some people really like icing and will still be pleased, but even so it's a really disturbing choice to make.
The irony of FFXIII is not lost on me. FFX is where it all started to go wrong.

I agree that XIII had some great story that you had to keep reading. I didn't mind that so much as I fucking hated the fact that the text kept changing. I don't mind adding to it but changing it is just evil.

And FF went wrong when it started trying to be the prettiest game around. Back in the NES, SNES, and PSX eras, Final Fantasy was the best looking RPG. But still an ugly game compared to the other genres. But no one cared because the story drew you in. In FFX the graphics were great but the game just became a really long corridor. They wanted to be the prettiest game instead of the best game.

In XIII, the other problem was the pacing. The missions in Chapter 11 were cool in that the "world" opened up. The question is why did it take that long to get to?