Deus Ex 2

[Elurindel]

Unfortunately, my own opinion of Deus Ex 2 is coloured by the fact that I love its predecessor. I've played it through about 10 times, and each time found something new. I've played Invisible War through twice and regretted paying 43p for it the second time. If it hadn't called itself Deus Ex, and had been somethign completely different, story-wise, I'd have been kinder to it. But this was the sequel to what for a while was the best damn RPG out there. Then we receive a console-compatible (ie. dumbed down), shiny graphics, story-lite game with forgettable characters that stand woodenly and deliver awkward dialogue.

I don't have great hopes for Deus Ex 3, either. Just go back and do Deus Ex 2 properly!

 

[searanox]

I don't have great hopes for Deus Ex 3, either. Just go back and do Deus Ex 2 properly!

What's sad is that Deus Ex 2 has a pretty great storyline, even if it lacks some of the socio-political-philosophical commentary of the first game (it largely exchanged it for some "what if" musing), but the characters are written and performed so uncaringly that I find it impossible to invest any modicum of enthusiasm into it.

 

[Ionami]

I never played the original, but having played the second it seems everything I expected it to be was in fact what it used to be... P'raps a download of the original is in order....

It's butt ugly these days, but if you can get past that it is without doubt the best RPG ever made, and probably the best game ever made also.

Now, now.... let's not get carried away. It was plagued with bugs. Don't get me wrong I loved it too, but it's nowhere near being the "best" in any category. Besides, that kinda stuff is always subjective anyways.

Bugs would stop something from being your favourite game? Really?

That depends on the amount and severity of the bugs in question. In this case, I was unable to actually complete the game, as it glitched up so badly I couldn't complete the final mission. Quite disappointing. (I realize not everyone has had this problem.)

 

[Zac_Dai]

Deus Ex 3 will most likely suck because its going to be developed heavily towards consoles.

 

[Syndef]

When I first played Deus Ex, I was blown away. I had never seen so much depth in a game before (keep in mind this was back in 2001). The story was great and convincing, and the game-play was fun, though it was kind of simple.
Everyone that played Deus Ex thought that Deus Ex 2 would be just as good as the first if not better. Deus Ex 2 was the first game I played that had ragdoll physics, so I was impressed the first time through (even though every bullet had instant spine-breaking capabilities). It was brought down however, by having certain aspects of Deus Ex 1 (that were perfectly good) over-simplified, especially with the "universal ammo". From what I hear, all the dumbing down was meant for the consoles. Even so, Deus Ex 1 was ported over to the console from the PC just fine, so I have no idea why Ion Storm saw it necessary to make Deus Ex 2 the way they did. It wasn't a terrible game though--just not what a Deus Ex 1 fan would expect. Say...this sorta reminds me of the way Ion Storm made Thief: Deadly Shadows so different from its original predecessors...

 

[Akas]

All I can say is this: remember the first level of DE? Think about the atmosphere. Light and shadows were abound, allowing for a frontal assault but also stealth. You're plunged into the action right away, told there are people that need to be killed, saved, etc. and then dropped straight in.

Now look at DE2's first level. After a long and disorienting cutscene, you're dropped into a standard apartment. The hallways are small meaning no stealth, you're under attack by some faceless enemy, you're set to meet up with someone you don't really know or care about (I forget her name). There's no real action at first, just getting familiarized with the area, and it's clear that there's going to be less freedom here. That's why DE 2 is so hard for me to swallow: the intro is pretty horrible.

For those of you that say "it's shrunk because it's developed for consoles", stop. Look at Goldeneye. It's two video game generations old, but the levels were still fairly complex even for a console. GTA is a console series. And consoles certainly can handle complex levels from PC games (Probably Doom, Quake, TF2, etc. Don't know, haven't tried). So it's not because it was developed for consoles. It's because the team didn't know what they were doing.

 

[Meatstorm]

have they announced when its coming out?

 

[Akasha666]

I am incredibly afraid for Deus Ex 3. The art style is good and very faithful to the original game while still appearing original, and the premise of the setting and story we have learned so far is also promising, if somewhat predictable. What I am really concerned about is the addition of things like cover systems, regenerating health (explained away by nano-bots, but the game is a prequel to the first two... uh, technological regression?) and a general emphasis on action and stealth... not that action and stealth are bad, but we have seen nothing of the character interaction in the game, and I'd like to be able to get through the game without killing a single person, as well as be able to talk my way out of most situations.

I'm also afraid that the console development will kill a lot of the complexity. One of the best features of the original Deus Ex is in the redundancy of a lot of the abilities - it doesn't matter if you have three ways to get more effective underwater breathing, what matters is that they all have their pros and cons and can all stack up if you really want to be an amazing swimmer. They tried to get rid of redundant abilities and complexity in the inventory management etc. for the sequel, and that wound up basically destroying half of the gameplay depth. Furthermore, the original Deus Ex is well-known for its strong exploration element, as well as its inclusion of vertical space to scale (the ability to literally jump dozens of feet in the air to climb up skyscrapers is something that I have still not seen in another game to this date). The level design is so brilliant because for any given mission objective, you are given a location to reach and then dropped into the world, and it's up to you how to get there, whether that be by sneaking through ventilation shafts or blowing down the door and a bunch of patrolling guards. I have a suspicion that Deus Ex 3 will be much more rooted in shooting and combat elements, and that its "open-ended world" will really consist of a bunch of branching linear pathways. This isn't based on paranoia, mind you, but by comments made by the developers in interviews and on the official forums. After they introduced cover systems and regenerating health, I pretty much said "fuck it" and gave up most of my hope.

You talk from my heart, friend! Well spoken searanox. This pretty much sums up the Deus Ex experience. If you decide to grab a ficus tree from a hotel lobby and use it as your only "weapon" - I was just thinking of a companion cube analogy you can find in the game - you not only make it to the end cutscene but you probably see things no one else got to see. The beauty of the game still make my eyes sweat in nostalgia.

For those who care - I already posted my opinion on Invisible War here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.82434#1124742

There are only two characters out there in the FPS-RPG niche that really made me care - Garret and JC.

 

[Stella Q]

I thought the storyline in IW was the only redeemable quality, but I'm not sure I would've cared as much if it had not been set in the Deus Ex universe. While the gameplay was less than stellar, I really appreciated some of the smaller touches they put in to reward players of the first game (aside from JC not wearing sunglasses, which is an unforgiveable sin imo). Some examples:

SPOILERS

1. Going through JC's memories and seeing all those locations from the first game rendered in pretty graphics.

2. Finding out that the leaders of the Illuminati were both characters from the first game (although it would've been nice to find out why the former leader of Silhoette ended up leading the Illuminati but w/e)

3. Making the biggest decision in the game from Alex Jacobsen's desk! And they even included the secret panel in the floor of that room.

There are a lot of others, but I got the warm and fuzzies at those moments.

 

[Magnetic2]

Spoiler!


I cared so little for everyone at the end of the second game that I sided with that.. thing.. and went around killing everyone, and got the worst ending.

 

[J-Man]

Now, now.... let's not get carried away. It was plagued with bugs. Don't get me wrong I loved it too, but it's nowhere near being the "best" in any category. Besides, that kinda stuff is always subjective anyways.

It's my own personal best game of all time, surely that counts?

Right. That's why I said that kind of stuff is subjective.

Uuuuhhh... everything is subjective.

Moving on, Deus Ex came No.2 (No.1 nearly always changes, so in consistency Deus Ex wins) in nearly every PC Gamer top 100 since it came out.

 

[Dys]

I never even finished the original Deus Ex, at the time all I had for gaming was an IBM R30 for school, which progressively died as I played through it, in the end the crap computer beat me, and by the time I had another good computer I couldn't recapture it. Too many missions to replay through before I got any closure.

However, even with my incomplete assesments of the original Dues Ex, I couldn't handle the second. I dunno why, as everyone has told me it was a decent game if you don't compare it to the first, but I had only seen the awsome of the first. And by the time the second one came out I guess I was a lot better at video games, and I couldn't reacapture the fear of dieing that I had in the original (it felt a lot easier, at the begining anyway).

Sorry to crush the high hopes people seem to have, but the third one seems worse again. To me, it looks like the are copying every popular gameplay element going, and I especially hate regenerating health in games. It will have to be really big, and really open for me to bother with it. And as it's a console game, my hopes are low.

 

[Ionami]

Now, now.... let's not get carried away. It was plagued with bugs. Don't get me wrong I loved it too, but it's nowhere near being the "best" in any category. Besides, that kinda stuff is always subjective anyways.

It's my own personal best game of all time, surely that counts?

Right. That's why I said that kind of stuff is subjective.

Uuuuhhh... everything is subjective.

Moving on, Deus Ex came No.2 (No.1 nearly always changes, so in consistency Deus Ex wins) in nearly every PC Gamer top 100 since it came out.

Not everything is subjective. Some things are opinion, and some things are fact.

 

[J-Man]

Now, now.... let's not get carried away. It was plagued with bugs. Don't get me wrong I loved it too, but it's nowhere near being the "best" in any category. Besides, that kinda stuff is always subjective anyways.

It's my own personal best game of all time, surely that counts?

Right. That's why I said that kind of stuff is subjective.

Uuuuhhh... everything is subjective.

Moving on, Deus Ex came No.2 (No.1 nearly always changes, so in consistency Deus Ex wins) in nearly every PC Gamer top 100 since it came out.

Not everything is subjective. Some things are opinion, and some things are fact.

Yes. Some things are subjective, and some are fact. However, when it comes to games, nearly everything is subjective.

How the fuck did we get onto this?

 

[mcx]

I just started playind DE2 and there is just something about it that just puts me of, I do not what but I just do not want to play the game. Maybe it has something to do with the stupid loading times and Male Alex voice, it is just awful misscasting at its finnest.

About ThiefE, I liked that game it had the same loading issues as IW and it is not as good as its predecessors but it is alright.