Deus Ex: Invisible War
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I am still trying to squeeze a bit more information out of people that have played it, perhaps something a bit substantive by comparison to general statements of yay or nay.PlasticTree said:I don't know yet how good the sequel exactly is (pretty much every review says it's a great game, but still have en emphasis on how much better the original is), but the first Deus Ex sure was brilliant. Nothing that hasn't been said in this topic, though.dietpeachsnapple said:
Could you throw a guy a bone?
Well, to be honest, I do think you'll have to get used to how the game looks. I recently started it up again, and it really does look bloody awful. Luckily for you, this game is all about the whole experience. The gameplay, while really good, isn't revolutionary anymore, but you won't find this game awesome for well defined features like the augmentation system or the graphics. What makes this game tick is how immersive it is, how well everything fits together. If you've played for about an hour you simply won't quit anymore. The story is great, the whole atmosphere of everything, the characters, the gameplay that fits great with the Deus Ex universe..this is exactly one of those games where the different parts become a whole, where you couldn't care less about it's weaknesses. That is also why this game is still fun to play. The main reason for it's awesomeness isn't something that can get outdated.
I can understand why it's hard to say something substantive about Deus Ex, because it simply doesn't have one or two features which make this game so good. I think that's also the reason why a lot of people remember this game as one of their best game experiences. It's the experience, the 'feeling' that makes it so awesome. I'm afraid me too will have to apologize to you for not telling something réally substantial. That's just not possible with this one.
I can understand why it's hard to say something substantive about Deus Ex, because it simply doesn't have one or two features which make this game so good. I think that's also the reason why a lot of people remember this game as one of their best game experiences. It's the experience, the 'feeling' that makes it so awesome. I'm afraid me too will have to apologize to you for not telling something réally substantial. That's just not possible with this one.
Nah, just didn't work at all for me. I like using a sniper, but no, I have to use a pistol most of the time to only use up small amounts of ammo - juice.dietpeachsnapple said:
I really hated the universal ammo, if you were out of ammo you WERE out of ammo. Whereas in other games you just switch to a weaker weapon.NuclearJonJon said:
By the way, good review (maybe a tad bit long) but did you mention the HELLFIRE BOLTCASTER? It's the most kickass gun in the game. Darts that light the enemy on fire, how much cooler does it get?
Anyway, I loved DX2 eventhough it was a pile of shit compared to the first one, DX1 has like one million / 10, DX2 has 8/10 in my opinion
Did you ever modify it using the "ammo scavenger"?NuclearJonJon said:
It reduced how much ammo was used by a weapon. That with the "re-fire" (faster rate of fire,) mod made it a good choice most of the time.
I suppose, in part, we did not share this problem because I liked exploring every inch of a map. This meant that I found every ammunition magazine in the game. Most of the time I had ammunition at max and I was unable to pick up new ones.
Thank you for your frankness.PlasticTree said:
I found Invisible war to be a work of art. Visually for how effectively they used limited graphics, and conceptually for how amazing the writing was.
I think I can survive a downgrade in graphics if the writing stays just as good, and I look forward to seeing how well the game manages to do so.
As Quickening666 mentioned -
Quickening666 said:
I bought this game back when it came out for the Xbox. At the time, I thought the game sucked. A couple years back, I picked it back up, and I loved it. Maybe it was because I had matured. I have to agree with the OP, the game is awesome. I still haven't beaten it, but who cares. The game is still good and I come at anyone with a pitchfork and a knife for saying it is terrible. However, I still don't like parts of the game for certain reasons. As someone said, ammo sucked to find. Ever gun used the same ammo, which is a little stupid, but I guess it isn't hard to keep up with it if you have the right biomods and if you explore alot. This brings me to another thing: all the good guns use too much damn ammo and are too damn hard to find. I spent hours trying to get that Hellfire Boltcaster because I could just barely reach that last ledge. Other than that, the game is amazing.
Well written review, however i respectfully disagree with you. It's hard for me to judge Deus Ex 2 not too harshly seeming as the original is my favourite game of all time. So whilst invisible war is a decent game on it's own, in comparison to the original it's really quite pathetic imo. The things i didn't like about the game are; the plot and characters were fairly mediocre, the game was too short, too much emphasis on graphics, much more linear and smaller levels and universal ammo.
My GODS!headshotcatcher said:I really hated the universal ammo, if you were out of ammo you WERE out of ammo. Whereas in other games you just switch to a weaker weapon.NuclearJonJon said:
By the way, good review (maybe a tad bit long) but did you mention the HELLFIRE BOLTCASTER? It's the most kickass gun in the game. Darts that light the enemy on fire, how much cooler does it get?
Anyway, I loved DX2 eventhough it was a pile of shit compared to the first one, DX1 has like one million / 10, DX2 has 8/10 in my opinion
How did I not know about the special weapons?!!
You realize that I have to play the game AGAIN now, to get these!
(I looked at many of them without knowing what they were because they look the same.)
That was a bold review. I'm suprised the TS wasn't flamed for praising the game yet.
I think I'll agree in part and say that the game was not bad.
Now the OP did fail to mention the worst flaws of the game and so I feel the review is incomplete.
The bad stuff:
1. The main protagist Alex as downright irritating as a male, but much more acceptable when played as a female. The male voice sucks. Play the girl.
2. Many of the maps are so compact the game feels awful cramped. The first time you leave the facility and enter the city, this becomes so awfully apparent. As the game progresses the areas do become better though. It's like the devs were still struggling with the level editor on the first "city".
3. One type of ammo. No skills, just biomods. The game was dumbed down.
Yet when I picked up the game for 5 euros a few years ago, I was not disappointed at all and found myself enjoying the game.
The game has some choices and consequences. The FP action is good enough. The end game was satisfying.
Just force yourself through the first area and the game starts to pick up.
I think I'll agree in part and say that the game was not bad.
Now the OP did fail to mention the worst flaws of the game and so I feel the review is incomplete.
The bad stuff:
1. The main protagist Alex as downright irritating as a male, but much more acceptable when played as a female. The male voice sucks. Play the girl.
2. Many of the maps are so compact the game feels awful cramped. The first time you leave the facility and enter the city, this becomes so awfully apparent. As the game progresses the areas do become better though. It's like the devs were still struggling with the level editor on the first "city".
3. One type of ammo. No skills, just biomods. The game was dumbed down.
Yet when I picked up the game for 5 euros a few years ago, I was not disappointed at all and found myself enjoying the game.
The game has some choices and consequences. The FP action is good enough. The end game was satisfying.
Just force yourself through the first area and the game starts to pick up.
Hearing enough people talk about the problems, the flaws become SLIGHTLY more visible to me.VoltySquirrel said:
Admittedly, while I was usually maxed out on ammo, I was horrified when I finished using the sniper rifle because it sucked up so much universal ammo. I was nowhere near empty, but I would keep an extra eye out for ammo.
Arguing its advantage, however, I liked never having to worry about which weapon had enough ammo, or if I should save my "good" ammo for later.
Regardless, I am scheduled for another run through with the game to use the female character again and find the special weapons.
I'm glad you found this game and enjoyed it. However, the game seemed a bit bland compared to the original (granted, the graphics are better, but my favorite game remains Daggerfall, if that gives you an idea of the weight I give to graphics).
I'm sorry that people have been vague with you about why this game is better. Understand that qualitative comparisons can be hard. I'll try to explain why most people think DE1 is better. Keep in mind I'm going from semi-distant memories, so bear with me and forgive any shortcomings in this.
First... Storyline. You know the Dentons of DE2? DE1 is pretty much the story of how they came to be, as well as the story of the Illuminati and Helios. There are numerous choices that can be made and numerous alliances that can be forged along the way. In the end, you have to make a choice of the side to join. You can ally with the Illuminati, the AI known as Helios, etc. Sadly, that choice doesn't carry over into DE2, as that game assumes the main character chooses Helios in the first game. But whatever. Minor potential inconsistency--at worst a shortcoming of DE2, not DE1. The dialogue and overall plot in general are at LEAST comparable to DE2. It may be better! Subtle foreshadowing and several good "WTF???" moments tore at my varying loyalties. The characters are rather believable, making you actually feel a connection to the characters you ally with (if you're into that sort of thing). A couple times, I got blindsided by a betrayal or other twist, and wound up kicking myself because I "should have seen it coming." That's a sign of decent writing--when the plot is engrossing, and where there is a twist that is unexpected but totally understandable in hind-sight.
Oh yeah, there's tons of dialogue too.
Gameplay. Well, the game is very similar to DE2 at its core. The game is a combination stealth, FPS, melee, diplomatic finesse, what-have-you. Most situations you find yourself in can be solved in multiple ways. You can blast everyone away. You can set traps. You can hack, take over turrets, etc. You can talk your way out of a lot of things. You can sneak up behind someone and knock them out. You can do a combination of all of these elements. In addition to that, the exact way a situation was resolved can seriously affect the end result. I'll give you an example. Sorry for any errors; the basic scenario and the outcomes are accurate though. ****SPOILER!!!**** At one point, you come into contact with a young woman who has become a hooker. I believe that through dialogue, you can convince her to see her father from whom she was estranged (this could happen regardless, I can't recall). Anyway, you meet the father who happens to run a motel you wind up in. Her daughter is there with him, arguing as always. He is getting shaken down for money by the local wannabe gangster. If you follow the sub-plot here, you discover that one major reason his daughter became estranged is because he never stood up for himself. You can stay out of it. Or, you can convince him to stand up for himself. He'll ask you for a pistol, which you then provide him (you lose your gun ). When the gangster arrives, the motel owner will fight back. He'll be outclassed. You can stay out of it, in which case he'll die and the daughter will be heartbroken. You can get involved and kill the bad guy in the fight. The daughter will leave because the motel owner really didn't stand up for himself after all. OOOORRR you can wound the gangster and let the motel owner kill him. Then everyone's happy (except, presumably, the gangster). I never thought about trying to help the gangster, but if I play again I will. Either way, this is just a VERY minor subplot, and yet all these possibilities emerged from just such a simple thing. There are numerous opportunities like this to flesh out your inner hero/anti-hero/non-committed wimp. ****END OF SPOILER!****
Here's another reason most have said it's better. The game had augmentations like DE2. HOWEVER, it also has experience points, which you can use to improve various abilities. You can make your weapons more accurate and deadly. You can be more stealthy. You can become a better hacker. You get the idea. On top of that, you can mod out your weapons with various kits ranging from accuracy boosts to silencers. This means that, unlike DE2, you have 3 ways to custom-tailor your gameplay. I prefer a sneaky hacker type stealth guy who knocks out most of his opponents. Worst-case scenario, I could fight well with a pistol (preferably silenced). So I got augs that improved my stealth, hacking, strength, etc. My xp was cashed in for more stealth, low-tech weapons skills (aka melee and dart guns), pistols, and hacking. I used weapons mods that increased the accuracy and killing power plus silenced my pistol. My skill in hacking got me plenty of money, so I could pay bribes and other such things to avoid confrontations. There you go. Perfect sneaky dude who only kills when his back is to the wall. Nothing was more satisfying than hitting a baddie with a tranquilizer dart, and having him trying to figure out what's going on, and when it finally dawns on him, he says "Oh crap!!" and tries running to get help, but passes out a few steps away. Oh, did I mention that wounded or freaked out enemies try to run to get help? Yeah, well...they do
Here's the thing, that build worked perfectly for me, and I beat the game. HOWEVER, a guy who wants to be a brutal, brainless, guns-blazing, what is a computer terminal?? sort of guy can finish the game just as successfully as I did. A demolitions guy who hacks terminals, places traps, fires rockets, etc., can do so. As far as I can tell, one only needs to have SOME ability to kill, as some confrontation seems necessary. But then again, I never tried a purely pacifist character. Either way, you can see the possibilities, and I doubt you'd want to NEVER raise a fist
I'm sorry that people have been vague with you about why this game is better. Understand that qualitative comparisons can be hard. I'll try to explain why most people think DE1 is better. Keep in mind I'm going from semi-distant memories, so bear with me and forgive any shortcomings in this.
First... Storyline. You know the Dentons of DE2? DE1 is pretty much the story of how they came to be, as well as the story of the Illuminati and Helios. There are numerous choices that can be made and numerous alliances that can be forged along the way. In the end, you have to make a choice of the side to join. You can ally with the Illuminati, the AI known as Helios, etc. Sadly, that choice doesn't carry over into DE2, as that game assumes the main character chooses Helios in the first game. But whatever. Minor potential inconsistency--at worst a shortcoming of DE2, not DE1. The dialogue and overall plot in general are at LEAST comparable to DE2. It may be better! Subtle foreshadowing and several good "WTF???" moments tore at my varying loyalties. The characters are rather believable, making you actually feel a connection to the characters you ally with (if you're into that sort of thing). A couple times, I got blindsided by a betrayal or other twist, and wound up kicking myself because I "should have seen it coming." That's a sign of decent writing--when the plot is engrossing, and where there is a twist that is unexpected but totally understandable in hind-sight.
Oh yeah, there's tons of dialogue too.
Gameplay. Well, the game is very similar to DE2 at its core. The game is a combination stealth, FPS, melee, diplomatic finesse, what-have-you. Most situations you find yourself in can be solved in multiple ways. You can blast everyone away. You can set traps. You can hack, take over turrets, etc. You can talk your way out of a lot of things. You can sneak up behind someone and knock them out. You can do a combination of all of these elements. In addition to that, the exact way a situation was resolved can seriously affect the end result. I'll give you an example. Sorry for any errors; the basic scenario and the outcomes are accurate though. ****SPOILER!!!**** At one point, you come into contact with a young woman who has become a hooker. I believe that through dialogue, you can convince her to see her father from whom she was estranged (this could happen regardless, I can't recall). Anyway, you meet the father who happens to run a motel you wind up in. Her daughter is there with him, arguing as always. He is getting shaken down for money by the local wannabe gangster. If you follow the sub-plot here, you discover that one major reason his daughter became estranged is because he never stood up for himself. You can stay out of it. Or, you can convince him to stand up for himself. He'll ask you for a pistol, which you then provide him (you lose your gun
). When the gangster arrives, the motel owner will fight back. He'll be outclassed. You can stay out of it, in which case he'll die and the daughter will be heartbroken. You can get involved and kill the bad guy in the fight. The daughter will leave because the motel owner really didn't stand up for himself after all. OOOORRR you can wound the gangster and let the motel owner kill him. Then everyone's happy (except, presumably, the gangster). I never thought about trying to help the gangster, but if I play again I will. Either way, this is just a VERY minor subplot, and yet all these possibilities emerged from just such a simple thing. There are numerous opportunities like this to flesh out your inner hero/anti-hero/non-committed wimp. ****END OF SPOILER!****Here's another reason most have said it's better. The game had augmentations like DE2. HOWEVER, it also has experience points, which you can use to improve various abilities. You can make your weapons more accurate and deadly. You can be more stealthy. You can become a better hacker. You get the idea. On top of that, you can mod out your weapons with various kits ranging from accuracy boosts to silencers. This means that, unlike DE2, you have 3 ways to custom-tailor your gameplay. I prefer a sneaky hacker type stealth guy who knocks out most of his opponents. Worst-case scenario, I could fight well with a pistol (preferably silenced). So I got augs that improved my stealth, hacking, strength, etc. My xp was cashed in for more stealth, low-tech weapons skills (aka melee and dart guns), pistols, and hacking. I used weapons mods that increased the accuracy and killing power plus silenced my pistol. My skill in hacking got me plenty of money, so I could pay bribes and other such things to avoid confrontations. There you go. Perfect sneaky dude who only kills when his back is to the wall. Nothing was more satisfying than hitting a baddie with a tranquilizer dart, and having him trying to figure out what's going on, and when it finally dawns on him, he says "Oh crap!!" and tries running to get help, but passes out a few steps away. Oh, did I mention that wounded or freaked out enemies try to run to get help? Yeah, well...they do
Here's the thing, that build worked perfectly for me, and I beat the game. HOWEVER, a guy who wants to be a brutal, brainless, guns-blazing, what is a computer terminal?? sort of guy can finish the game just as successfully as I did. A demolitions guy who hacks terminals, places traps, fires rockets, etc., can do so. As far as I can tell, one only needs to have SOME ability to kill, as some confrontation seems necessary. But then again, I never tried a purely pacifist character. Either way, you can see the possibilities, and I doubt you'd want to NEVER raise a fist
Thank you for providing your opinion of the game, and doing so respectfully!Chaosut said:
I think you are the threshold opinion that will get me to acquire this game at some point. I can somehow see the original being crack for my brain, and I look forward to the experience.
Your complaints:
-Mediocre plot and characters
-Short game
-Too much emphasis on graphics
-Linear levels
-Universal ammo
It is mind boggling to me that ALL of these things endeared themselves to me for their quality and virtue! Again - evidence supporting the acquisition of the game to which they are being compared.
Thanks for taking the time to write mate. I would like to take a moment to address your points, and respectfully disagree.veloper said:
The male Alex D was voiced better than many games I have played, and so were most ALL the characters, minus the crazy lady on the Templar temple map. She seemed... rushed, overall. To be fair, I WILL play the girl again, and make a comparison between the two for voice quality.
There is a definite brilliance to making early maps small, and later maps big. If a person is familiarizing themselves with controls, items, and new menu interfaces, they don't ALSO need the trouble of finding their way around a large map.
I will continue to praise the convenience of universal ammo. I never switch to a weapon I forgot I have no ammo for, and I don't wait to use my good guns because I am afraid I might fight something more deserving later.
I have no contest of the game being dumbed down, or that the biomods were a poor replacement for skills. I will not and cannot contest this because I have not played the first game YET. At this point I know that I WILL.
I shall take efforts to maintain my quality of writing, but that will depend primarily upon me finding movies/Games that I feel passionate about.Chaosut said:Thanks, i'm looking forward to seeing more of your reviews, this one was very gooddietpeachsnapple said:
I didn't like Deus Ex 2, and it wasn't necessarily because it was a bad game, it just wasn't the game I wanted or expected. I wanted more of Deus Ex RPG/FPS gameplay, complete with a continuation of the storyline. But Deus Ex 2 was to Deus Ex what Bioshock was to System Shock 2.
OK! Finally got to your comment! You were far more thorough in your response and thus took more contemplation on my part! Thank you, and let's get started!oblivionenigma said:I'm glad you found this game and enjoyed it. However, the game seemed a bit bland compared to the original (granted, the graphics are better, but my favorite game remains Daggerfall, if that gives you an idea of the weight I give to graphics).
I'm sorry that people have been vague with you about why this game is better. Understand that qualitative comparisons can be hard. I'll try to explain why most people think DE1 is better. Keep in mind I'm going from semi-distant memories, so bear with me and forgive any shortcomings in this.
First... Storyline. You know the Dentons of DE2? DE1 is pretty much the story of how they came to be, as well as the story of the Illuminati and Helios. There are numerous choices that can be made and numerous alliances that can be forged along the way. In the end, you have to make a choice of the side to join. You can ally with the Illuminati, the AI known as Helios, etc. Sadly, that choice doesn't carry over into DE2, as that game assumes the main character chooses Helios in the first game. But whatever. Minor potential inconsistency--at worst a shortcoming of DE2, not DE1. The dialogue and overall plot in general are at LEAST comparable to DE2. It may be better! Subtle foreshadowing and several good "WTF???" moments tore at my varying loyalties. The characters are rather believable, making you actually feel a connection to the characters you ally with (if you're into that sort of thing). A couple times, I got blindsided by a betrayal or other twist, and wound up kicking myself because I "should have seen it coming." That's a sign of decent writing--when the plot is engrossing, and where there is a twist that is unexpected but totally understandable in hind-sight.
Oh yeah, there's tons of dialogue too.
Gameplay. Well, the game is very similar to DE2 at its core. The game is a combination stealth, FPS, melee, diplomatic finesse, what-have-you. Most situations you find yourself in can be solved in multiple ways. You can blast everyone away. You can set traps. You can hack, take over turrets, etc. You can talk your way out of a lot of things. You can sneak up behind someone and knock them out. You can do a combination of all of these elements. In addition to that, the exact way a situation was resolved can seriously affect the end result. I'll give you an example. Sorry for any errors; the basic scenario and the outcomes are accurate though. ****SPOILER!!!**** At one point, you come into contact with a young woman who has become a hooker. I believe that through dialogue, you can convince her to see her father from whom she was estranged (this could happen regardless, I can't recall). Anyway, you meet the father who happens to run a motel you wind up in. Her daughter is there with him, arguing as always. He is getting shaken down for money by the local wannabe gangster. If you follow the sub-plot here, you discover that one major reason his daughter became estranged is because he never stood up for himself. You can stay out of it. Or, you can convince him to stand up for himself. He'll ask you for a pistol, which you then provide him (you lose your gun
Here's another reason most have said it's better. The game had augmentations like DE2. HOWEVER, it also has experience points, which you can use to improve various abilities. You can make your weapons more accurate and deadly. You can be more stealthy. You can become a better hacker. You get the idea. On top of that, you can mod out your weapons with various kits ranging from accuracy boosts to silencers. This means that, unlike DE2, you have 3 ways to custom-tailor your gameplay. I prefer a sneaky hacker type stealth guy who knocks out most of his opponents. Worst-case scenario, I could fight well with a pistol (preferably silenced). So I got augs that improved my stealth, hacking, strength, etc. My xp was cashed in for more stealth, low-tech weapons skills (aka melee and dart guns), pistols, and hacking. I used weapons mods that increased the accuracy and killing power plus silenced my pistol. My skill in hacking got me plenty of money, so I could pay bribes and other such things to avoid confrontations. There you go. Perfect sneaky dude who only kills when his back is to the wall. Nothing was more satisfying than hitting a baddie with a tranquilizer dart, and having him trying to figure out what's going on, and when it finally dawns on him, he says "Oh crap!!" and tries running to get help, but passes out a few steps away. Oh, did I mention that wounded or freaked out enemies try to run to get help? Yeah, well...they do
Here's the thing, that build worked perfectly for me, and I beat the game. HOWEVER, a guy who wants to be a brutal, brainless, guns-blazing, what is a computer terminal?? sort of guy can finish the game just as successfully as I did. A demolitions guy who hacks terminals, places traps, fires rockets, etc., can do so. As far as I can tell, one only needs to have SOME ability to kill, as some confrontation seems necessary. But then again, I never tried a purely pacifist character. Either way, you can see the possibilities, and I doubt you'd want to NEVER raise a fist
Thank you for the over view of DE1, short-comings and all. As for the continuation through DE2 of only one storyline... I understand your gripe, and I would put up for contemplation the method by which it could actually be handled. They could have written multiple beginnings, and allowed the player to choose which they did in the previous game. Personally, I can understand why they only wrote one.
There were some small betrayals in DE2 but nothing like you have described. I look forward to the depth of dialogue and skill systems as well. I would ask whether there is any grinding necessary to get your skills to an appreciable level.
I like your description of the method combinations, BUT I do have to disagree on one point. I LOVED that I could get away with never raising a fist in DE2. I could choose to never hurt anyone. I could even probably get away with never breaking any machines either. It would be hard work, but I would love the level of detailed and careful gameplay it would require. It adds challenge and greater skill into the equation. (This is not to say judging the proper distance from an explosion one should be to survive one's own explosives is not important!)
For the record:
"I prefer a sneaky hacker type stealth guy who knocks out most of his opponents."
Agreed.