DICE Exec: Military Shooter Market Isn't Oversaturated

[blackrave]

True
Modern military shooters aren't oversaturated
What do we have on the market?
ARMA? Not much.
.
.
.
Oh, he meant spunkgargleweewees?
What do you mean SGWW isn't sci-fi?
Player can take bullet to the face and heal himself in few seconds by sucking thumb behind corner.
It seems pretty sci-fi to me.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

But if you look even so far back as last year, then yep MMS saturation

How many major MMS games were actually released last year? I count five:

Call of Duty: Black Ops 2
Ghost Recon: Future Soldier
Medal of Honor Warfighter
Counterstrike: Global Operations
Spec Ops: The Line (which anyone who's played it can tell you is not a good fit with the rest of this list)

Am I missing any? Now, by contrast, how many "Zombie Apocalypse" themed games were released last year?

Amy
Resident Evil: Revelations
Yakuza: Dead Souls
Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
House of the Dead 4 (PS3)
The Walking Dead (all episodes)
Lollipop Chainsaw
Deadlight
Resident Evil 6

Talk about oversaturation - there's three releases from the same franchise on there! People always say military-themed shooters are glutting the market, but there doesn't seem to be all that much evidence of it.

 

[teebeeohh]

But if you look even so far back as last year, then yep MMS saturation

How many major MMS games were actually released last year? I count five:

Call of Duty: Black Ops 2
Ghost Recon: Future Soldier
Medal of Honor Warfighter
Counterstrike: Global Operations
Spec Ops: The Line (which anyone who's played it can tell you is not a good fit with the rest of this list)

Am I missing any? Now, by contrast, how many "Zombie Apocalypse" themed games were released last year?

Amy
Resident Evil: Revelations
Yakuza: Dead Souls
Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City
House of the Dead 4 (PS3)
The Walking Dead (all episodes)
Lollipop Chainsaw
Deadlight
Resident Evil 6

Talk about oversaturation - there's three releases from the same franchise on there! People always say military-themed shooters are glutting the market, but there doesn't seem to be all that much evidence of it.

those games don't all have the same gameplay, the problem with MMS is that they all have more or less the exact same gameplay. if you look at your list all those games feature you shooting things with guns, and all probably contain some kind of M16 and ak47 variant.
now look at you zombie list, much more variance in gameplay.

 

[Nazulu]

What pointless crap. How about making something different for the sake of doing something different? Show us your not just a one trick horse, make something memorable for fuck sake.

Maybe he just wants the easy way out and use previous work.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

those games don't all have the same gameplay, the problem with MMS is that they all have more or less the exact same gameplay. if you look at your list all those games feature you shooting things with guns, and all probably contain some kind of M16 and ak47 variant.
now look at you zombie list, much more variance in gameplay.

Fair enough, but MMS games are defined more by their themes and settings than their gameplay. After all, what's the real difference in gameplay between a "modern military" shooter and a "sci-fi" shooter?

And even so, describing them as "the exact same gameplay" is unfair. For example, Spec Ops and Future Soldier don't even share character perspective with the others, they are third person rather than first. Sure, they generally involve M16s and AK47s, but it's a bit much to demand modern combat games not to feature modern combat. One could just as easily lump all the zombie games together by saying they all feature you versus a large horde of similarly-featured undead in a ruined or abandoned setting, where you bump them off with a mix of guns and melee weapons (with the exception of Amy, admittedly).

Even within their specific theme, there is variance among the MMS games. Warfighter is actually the most "grounded" of the bunch, with authentic lingo, weapons, and missions drawn from real-world combat operations (to the point that the Navy SEALs who consulted on the game were disciplined by the Navy). Counterstrike is essentially a port of a classic game, a story-free multiplayer shoot-em-up. Future Soldier and BO2 are futuristic to the point of verging on sci-fi. And Spec Ops...good God, do I really need to talk about how Spec Ops differs from the others?

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

I think we need to seperate genre as type of game and genre as type of content. Sci-Fi is a type of content. Shooter is a type of game.

But even so, did you see Medal of Honour: Doorfighter sell like gangbusters because it's so refreshing? No. Because there are PLENTY of military shooters. People are 'moving away' from military shooters not because it's not the flavour of the moment anymore, but BECAUSE it's an oversaturated market.

You what market isn't oversaturated? Good games. Maybe you should try making one of those. Zing!

 

[generals3]

I think we all know what kind of shooter would be refreshing... "Battlefield 1803"

Come on you know you want it!

 

[spartandude]

I think we all know what kind of shooter would be refreshing... "Battlefield 1803"

Come on you know you want it!

Play Mount and Blade Napoleonic Wars. its really REALLY fun and so much different from other shooter multiplayers

 

[vun]

I agree, they're all pretty de-saturated...

Oh wait, not talking about the lack of colour?
Then no, I don't really agree. Like someone else said earlier in the thread, the market is saturated, not over-saturated. But it will be if you morons continue to make these games.

Also, whoever mentioned CS:GO(and got the name wrong in the process) along with MoH and CoD and the likes; wat?

 

[1337mokro]

It's not over-saturated. It's just utterly completely homogeneous. From one military shooter to the next NOTHING will change.

Where were the days where you would get fucking SHARK guns or interesting game modes or where the gameplay was just so unique that it stood out from all other games, see Tribes.

It's just all people in vaguely middle eastern towns shooting with the same types of guns in deathmatches. Once in a while it might go to Russia but other than that there's nothing else that changes between one boring MMS and the other MMS.

 

[sethisjimmy]

I don't know I agree. Sci-Fi is a genre that has existed since way before the dawn of video games. Sci-Fi and video games have always been massive. It's hard to say Sci-Fi is newly oversaturating the market when Sci-Fi games have been massive throughout the entire history of gaming. From Space Invaders to Asteroids to Contra to Mega Man to Mass Effect. Modern Military Shooters (or even just Military Shooters) is a genre that has generally come to fruition solely in the 3D era, and has had a definitive upward spike in popularity in recent years, compared to Sci-Fi which has had a consistent place in the industry over the years.

Which brings me to my next point. That it's hard to call oversaturation of Sci-Fi games a problem. The Sci-Fi genre inherently allows for immense creativity and uniqueness. This means that many Sci-Fi games are going to look, sound, play, and experience entirely differently from one another. This is something the MMS genre just doesn't have going for it, so when too many MMS games pop up on the market, oversaturation can be a real criticism leveled at the lack of innovation, creativity, and uniqueness between games.

 

[exobook]

While it true that modern miltary shooters and sci-fi are going to be a bit oversaturated, however the FPS can continue on if it just went in a new direction.

How about a FPS set in the First Indochina War (1946-54) as a member of the Viet Cong fighting the french in which the story explores the pit falls of nationalism, wars of independence and the competiting ideologies of the time. Now thats something interesting. A blend of story, ideas and historical events tied up in a environment that supports an FPS.

But of course this game will never get made because YOUR PLAYING AS A COMMIE!!!!111 and most people will think vietnam and believe you'll be shooting american soilders.

 

[ThatDarnCoyote]

Also, whoever mentioned CS:GO(and got the name wrong in the process) along with MoH and CoD and the likes; wat?

Heh, mea culpa, thanks for the correction. CS: Global Offensive. Misremembered the name. Sincere apologies to Counterstrike fans and devs.

Doesn't change the point I was making, though - I wasn't saying CS:GO and the other games are all the same (in fact, I argued just the opposite). I'm just pointing out that five military themed shooters over the course of a year doesn't constitute oversaturation, especially when compared to other genres.

 

[loa]

I don't care about what paintjob you put on it if almost every shooter ever from now on till the end of time is either halo, or call of duty gameplay-wise.
It's like every mmo trying to be wow.

 

[masticina]

Funny... I don't do shooters. And it seems that close to half the games in the store are.. *sigh* shooters.

 

[HorrendusOne]

IF all the mechanics of your Sci-fi reflect that of a modern day shooter........... I fail to see the difference ( which is the case with most "sci-fi" games this year. Besides These guys speak based on "polls" and "data figures" so it's not like they will EVER see it from a true gamer's perspective. These guys probably can't even imagine certain things...like NOT blowing mass loads of money on useless stuff that no one actually wants shoved down their throats.

 

[octafish]

So did Warfighter fail because it was a military themed game? I thought it failed because it WAS A PILE OF SHIT!

He has a point, I see a lot of divergence from this trend with a lot of companies trying to broaden the playing field, sure the nuts and bolts of the games might be the same but the flavours seem to be changing. Even COD went sci-fi in COD 2142 lite. It seems that most companies are realising you can't actual just copy COD and mirror their success and so they are now looking for a point of difference, small though that might be.

Now EA may want BF to beat COD but DICE started to make Battlefield and they are good at their job. They make one of the best team based online shooters out there. I might have wished for BF2143, but I see a lot to be hopeful for as a long time BF fan in BF4. The leaping out of the collapsing building moment in the BF4 multiplayer trailer gives me some hope there may even be some sort of Titan Mode in BF4.

Look Battlefield is Battlefield and not much else plays like it. If you buy Battlefield for the single player though you're an idiot.

I'm still not going to pre-order BF4, because my hopes may evaporate.

Oh, if your hankering for WW2 I hope your playing Rising Storm/Red Orchestra.

 

[BrotherRool]

-snip-

Oh zombies are fun more overdone than MMS', it doesn't mean that there weren't a fair amount of MMS' too though. (I think part of the thing is MMS' tend to be very dominant too which makes their numbers seen higher)

 

[teebeeohh]

those games don't all have the same gameplay, the problem with MMS is that they all have more or less the exact same gameplay. if you look at your list all those games feature you shooting things with guns, and all probably contain some kind of M16 and ak47 variant.
now look at you zombie list, much more variance in gameplay.

Fair enough, but MMS games are defined more by their themes and settings than their gameplay. After all, what's the real difference in gameplay between a "modern military" shooter and a "sci-fi" shooter?

And even so, describing them as "the exact same gameplay" is unfair. For example, Spec Ops and Future Soldier don't even share character perspective with the others, they are third person rather than first. Sure, they generally involve M16s and AK47s, but it's a bit much to demand modern combat games not to feature modern combat. One could just as easily lump all the zombie games together by saying they all feature you versus a large horde of similarly-featured undead in a ruined or abandoned setting, where you bump them off with a mix of guns and melee weapons (with the exception of Amy, admittedly).

Even within their specific theme, there is variance among the MMS games. Warfighter is actually the most "grounded" of the bunch, with authentic lingo, weapons, and missions drawn from real-world combat operations (to the point that the Navy SEALs who consulted on the game were disciplined by the Navy). Counterstrike is essentially a port of a classic game, a story-free multiplayer shoot-em-up. Future Soldier and BO2 are futuristic to the point of verging on sci-fi. And Spec Ops...good God, do I really need to talk about how Spec Ops differs from the others?

Weapons in MMS generally involve some form of lead being projected toward an enemy while SciFi allows you to have guns that shoot robot attack piranhas.
The gameplay in spec ops is as boring as in the other games and just because that supports the narrative doesn't make it any less boring.
My argument was that MMS always have very similar mechanics(and just having a different perspective or some futuristic elements doesn't give you are free pass), not just themes, while the zombie titles you mentioned have one common element (some kind of zombies/monsters) and vastly different gameplay. That's just not enough to lump them all together.
And you should read your passage on zombie games and tell me how that applies to the walking dead. The game is not about killing zombies, it just uses them as a backdrop and constant threat to do something different.