Did the Borderlands series receive any controversy over its depiction of 'little people'

[Dizchu]

The Borderlands series is one of the least offensive franchises in the FPS genre. It has a very inclusive, pro-diversity vibe. There's stereotypes but they're camp and light-hearted. Ellie is one of the best portrayals of an obese character in any game I've ever played, as she feels no shame for her body and attempts at ridiculing her are met with disastrous results.

I just assumed the midgets were a result of some sort of mutation much like some of the muscle-bound giant bandits, not people who actually have dwarfism.

 

[Dr. Thrax]

Incidentally, why is most of the criticism on this thread less "They generalized a broad group as squeaky lunatics" and more "They used the word 'midget'"?

Because they didn't "generalize a broad group as squeaky lunatics".
From my post just above yours, emphasis mine.

These midgets were originally regular proportioned people, like you and I, but a discovery at Headstone Mine had caused the convict workers to undergo mutations, growing into huge, muscular parodies of humanity, or stunted to dwarf proportions.
they also have been driven to the same kind of crazy as the regular Psychos have, being utterly obsessed with the Vault.

So these aren't just people who were born with dwarfism, they were mutated by something that caused them to lose all semblance of sanity and their stature.

 

[Spartan448]

You're talking about a game where basically everyone is a raging psychopath constantly rushing at you trying to kill you, including you, where one of the most endearing characters is a prepubescent girl who has a high-explosives fetish to rival that of Mr. Torgue and was largely decried by the African-American community for representing basically everything they hate about stereotypes of young African-Americans, where there is literally a character named "butt-stallion", and where there is a mission to recover a gun store owner's pornography collection from the bottom of a dilapidated hole that your city used to reside in. Everyone is being painted with the same brush here, really.

 

[Uriel_Hayabusa]

Not really, Borderlands is not trying to be offensive, it does what does for comedy...

I would say that in many cases it is trying to be offensive for the purpose of comedy. No matter if it is Mad Moxxi's over the top sexuality, midget enemies, riffing on Academia's obsession with fancy words, an antagonist that uses homophobic insults or the repeated insinuations of sexual violence from bandits, they are all seeking refuge in audacity. Not to mention the fact that the game has no quarrel with the fact that the protagonists are all psychopaths intent on joy-murdering their way into fame and fortune.

The Borderlands series is probably one of those series against which I think accusations of racism, sexism, ableism or any other form of discrimination or shitty portrayal are pretty unwarranted. Simply because Borderlands always seems to know what it is doing in its attempts to create humor either by seeking refuge in audacity or by crossing the line twice.

I take it you like the Borderlands franchise?

Because your post really gives off the impression that you're merely defending something you love from accusations of being offensive because you feel you have to.

That's actually an issue I have with a lot of these ''pop culture debates''. Many times a particular game/movie/whatever is accused of this or that -ism or -phobia it's ultimately just someone ripping on something he or she doesn't like while also trying to make it (and by extension: people who do like it) look bad.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I take it you like the Borderlands franchise?

Because your post really gives off the impression that you're merely defending something you love from accusations of being offensive because you feel you have to.

That's actually an issue I have with a lot of these ''pop culture debates''. Many times a particular game/movie/whatever is accused of this or that -ism or -phobia it's ultimately just someone ripping on something he or she doesn't like while also trying to make it (and by extension: people who do like it) look bad.

To be honest, I don't get your point. I don't feel I have to do anything in regards to how others perceive the Borderlands franchise. I am defending it here because I think a controversy over the representation of small people in Borderlands would be silly when you consider everything else the games take a stab at. If someone feels it is bad that's their prerogative however and it won't stop me from enjoying the game nor will I attempt to stop them from feeling it is bad.

People around the internet, game aficionados in particular, really need to develop thicker skin and some more distance to their own egos though. Because it is frankly embarrassing to see how often people take criticism against games they like personally. The very fact that you assume most criticism of poor inclusiveness, prejudice or perpetuation of negative stereotypes are more than that particular criticism is kind of indicative of what I mean.

 

[Netrigan]

I've never seen it brought up.

I was kind of expecting someone to say something about it, but yours is the first such post I've seen anywhere.

As for the actual topic, eh, all I have to say is that I found it a bit odd that the writers of the game who actively care about inclusiveness and all that jazz consider midgets to be fair game. I guess everyone has a blind spot.

It and Saints Row are the games which prove that you can be just as weird and twisted as you like... so long as you remember to treat your characters with a certain amount of humanity. Even the psychos are treated as tragic, even before Krieg showed up.

This is a game which got away with Hammerlocke's Big Hunt DLC, which draws upon English Colonialism and its racist depiction of Africa... and they got away with that.

 

[Netrigan]

Not really, Borderlands is not trying to be offensive, it does what does for comedy...

I would say that in many cases it is trying to be offensive for the purpose of comedy. No matter if it is Mad Moxxi's over the top sexuality, midget enemies, riffing on Academia's obsession with fancy words, an antagonist that uses homophobic insults or the repeated insinuations of sexual violence from bandits, they are all seeking refuge in audacity. Not to mention the fact that the game has no quarrel with the fact that the protagonists are all psychopaths intent on joy-murdering their way into fame and fortune.

The Borderlands series is probably one of those series against which I think accusations of racism, sexism, ableism or any other form of discrimination or shitty portrayal are pretty unwarranted. Simply because Borderlands always seems to know what it is doing in its attempts to create humor either by seeking refuge in audacity or by crossing the line twice.

I take it you like the Borderlands franchise?

Because your post really gives off the impression that you're merely defending something you love from accusations of being offensive because you feel you have to.

That's actually an issue I have with a lot of these ''pop culture debates''. Many times a particular game/movie/whatever is accused of this or that -ism or -phobia it's ultimately just someone ripping on something he or she doesn't like while also trying to make it (and by extension: people who do like it) look bad.

As hinted at in my last post, I find the process of how Borderlands gets away with its humor really fascinating. Certain comedies just seem to have this inherent humanism about them, so they can pretty much write a check to be as naughty as they like. South Park does it. The Farley Brothers do it, too. Borderlands, Saints Row.

I think part of it is avoiding the most stereotypical humor as much as possible and adding a degree of pathos to the proceedings. And I know in the case of Borderlands, the writer is very open to criticism about how people are portrayed. When the Tiny Tina Is Racist stuff made the rounds, instead of getting super-defensive, he asked if people found her racist... as it turned out, no one was really offended by her and lots of people really loved her.

There's just a vibe about these works. Everyone gets a certain amount of mockery, but no one is really targeted... and if you do feel your group is being unjustly targeted, they'd probably apologize and address the balance. No matter how wrong the humor is, there's rarely a sense of it being mean-spirited. Shallow Hal got a fair amount of criticism for it's reliance on fat jokes, but the criticism was usually framed as disappointment that they didn't do a better job in communicating the intended message.

 

[Trutard]

I will add my voice to yours in this, if only to give so called "SJW's" something to think about while they take a break from fighting for the rights of privileged pale women!

 

[Auron]

Someone's taking Borderlands' portrayal of anything at all in a serious manner? Is this the same world I live in?

 

[Netrigan]

I must admit that I did find that interesting that no uproar occurred over the midget enemies. I always felt it was odd that a major game used that term so much. However I gave up caring about Borderlands being politically correct when I saw people thought Tiny Tina was racist. After that hilarious debacle, the next game could feature the sound track from Song of the South and I wouldn't care. Really hope it doesn't though.

You got the remember there's a Let Him & You Fight mentality that creeps into certain kinds of reporting. If a single person complains, they'll hype that up to see if they can get a good fight going.

The example I like to use is Spike Lee's criticism of Flags of Our Fathers for not portraying the contributions of black soldiers during WWII. The press reported it like it was a thing and Clint Eastwood realized he was being baited and responded in a calm, rational manner, which not only addressed why black soldiers had no role in his film but also expressing a desire to see someone tackle the issue in another movie.

The Tiny Tina situation was a couple of folks talking out their ass. I'm not even sure if they were actually offended by it. It got reported, the writer responded to it in a sane manner and asked if people thought Tiny Tina's speech was racist. No one really complained, lots of people expressed their love. Controversy over without blood being spilled.

 

[kilenem]

I think its like Tropic Thunder where they really didn't get in trouble for Black face where they talked about about it. In the Tiny Tina DLC the they kind talk about racism towards midgets.

I think its alright because they pretty much rag on a lot of people like the Irish and I think Hodunks are suppose to be poor white people. It would be a bigger problem to me if Midgets where the only enemy and bad guy.

 

[slacker09]

As a dwarf it never offended me. While I would be offended if a person called me or another dwarf a midget as a derogatory term I felt that the overall tone of Borderlands, the fact that everyone in those games seem to be crazy over the top psychos, makes it feel inoffensive, to me at least.

 

[kilenem]

Not really, Borderlands is not trying to be offensive, it does what does for comedy...

The same can be said of 'Black face' or jiggly-boobs and I hear some folk find that pretty offensive.

I guess it's because little people are an easily overlooked minority.

Black face is offensive for different reasons. Yes it was done for comedic value but white Actors also performed in Black and Yellow face so the Movie studio didn't have hire Black and or Asian Actors. Also for Jiggly Bobs, Ms Moxxi, a NPC in the Borderlands universe, has Jiggly Boobs and is a parody of big breasted women in video games. She's pretty funny.

 

[Ronald Nand]

Having played more of the game I can see why the enemies didn't create much of a controversy, I guess no-one would take the portrayal of any group in the game seriously, with everything in the game is over the top and crazy, and there being so many characters that are stereotypes. It would be a bit hypocritical taking issue with the way short people are portrayed as psychopaths when every bandit in the game is a psychopath.

However its still surprising how Borderlands managed to avoid any controversy apart from that 'girlfriend mode' comment made by a developer, you'd think people would jump at attacking the game the same way people attack South Park.

 

[kilenem]

Not really, Borderlands is not trying to be offensive, it does what does for comedy...

The same can be said of 'Black face' or jiggly-boobs and I hear some folk find that pretty offensive.

I guess it's because little people are an easily overlooked minority.

Black face is offensive for different reasons. Yes it was done for comedic value but white Actors also performed in Black and Yellow face so the Movie studio didn't have hire Black and or Asian Actors. Also for Jiggly Bobs, Ms Moxxi, a NPC in the Borderlands universe, has Jiggly Boobs and is a parody of big breasted women in video games. She's pretty funny.

She's a over endowed, over sexualized character that exists soley to appeal to male gaze of immature young men by means of exploiting an already common trope of re4ducing women to mere eyecandy in games.


Is what some feminist has already said about that character. See the same thing you said is the same joke soooo many people missed about the infamous sorc from Dragon Crown...

That was also Kotaku being dense as duck about Dragons Crown and the creator didn't paint him self in a proper light when he had a kind of homophobic response to Kotaku. Your going to have Ignorant people who wont listen to argument properly. When the debate about GTA having all three male protagonist I started a topic about why isn't GTA given props for having a Black Character. Very few games have people of color or actually get their dialogue correctly. I'm looking at you every Japanese game with a Black person. Someone replied with women couldn't be a main character such a violent game. This had nothing to do with my argument and even then I'm from Detroit I know people who could be from Detroit who could be main characters in a GTA game. Also in GTA 4 one the drug dealers was a women.

Side note don't let stupid feminist who can't see the other side other side of argument paint the picture of every feminist. I know real feminist who do great things. Like in Detroit there is a all girls high school for teenage mothers with daycare and teaches girls how to properly take car of their kids probably needed in every major city.

 

[Lilani]

I've been playing Borderlands 2 and I don't like its portrayal of short people (I don't like the term 'little people, it feels patronizing, so I'm using the term short people).

"Little people" is the generally accepted term BY little people. I think the only patronizing thing is to assume you know better than they how they like to be referred to.

 

[Shingeki no Gingerbeard]

I think they actually are dropping the "Midget" prefix for a "lil" one for The Pre-Sequel. I think there actually were some complaints after BL2 became so popular.

 

[Netrigan]

Having played more of the game I can see why the enemies didn't create much of a controversy, I guess no-one would take the portrayal of any group in the game seriously, with everything in the game is over the top and crazy, and there being so many characters that are stereotypes. It would be a bit hypocritical taking issue with the way short people are portrayed as psychopaths when every bandit in the game is a psychopath.

However its still surprising how Borderlands managed to avoid any controversy apart from that 'girlfriend mode' comment made by a developer, you'd think people would jump at attacking the game the same way people attack South Park.

There's some surprising depth to the story in Borderlands 2, which gets more and more important as you get deeper in the game. Without spoiling things, the final DLC (Tiny Tina's Assault on Dragon Keep) is downright poignant in dealing with death, as Tina is in complete denial about the death of someone very important to her and the wackiness of the story runs parallel with a story about her accepting the loss.

And there's multiple examples where you scratch beneath the surface of a situation and there's an underplayed tragedy at its core. Even Handsome Jack ends up having a couple of moments where, beneath his twisted evil, it's clear he cares deeply about a particular character... even while completely mistreating them. Tiny Tina's story is largely someone clearly not dealing with the really horrible thing which had happened to her when she was younger... or perhaps reacting to it in the only way open to her on Pandora, by going completely mad. The wacky comedy is always the focus, but there's a rich vein of tragedy throughout the game which is touched upon in all sorts of surprising and unexpected ways.

As I said earlier, the game just never comes off as mean-spirited and the creators don't come across as overly defensive when someone criticizes something they did.