DirectorK discusses anime: The Asterisk War: What RWBY "COULD" have been

[DirectorK]

I'm not a particularly die-hard fan of RWBY (and don't know anything about TAW), but I really wouldn't say RWBY's ever really been about Tournaments, it's always been about killing monsters.

Hell, I'm fairly convinced the only reason the tournament in season 3 was a thing was so that we could still get a couple of cool fight scenes while we waited for the Villians to finally get the plot moving.

To me everyone in RWBY seems to care more about the tournament rather than protecting Remnant from the Creatures of Grimm or the White Fang. Yeah, they will stop them when they have to but after that they always go back to talking about the damn tournament. No one seems to be taking the White Fang seriously and making efforts to eliminate them before they do some serious collateral damage, which is pretty much what's going on right now in the series. This is the second time they've let the Grimm invade because they were too sidetracked with the tournament.

If you really think about it, it pretty much alludes to today's societies in the western world. Everyone seems to be more focused on American Idol and Dancing With The Stars rather paying attention to what's going on around the world and how serious it is or how serious it can get.

 

[Batou667]

No seriously! Listen to it! In fact, listen to it again! You can't tell me that's not the most beautiful ED song you've ever heard in an anime

Why does an anime have a song about erectile dysfunction? :/

[edit] Or is it Eating Disorders? Either way, it's a bit weird.

 

[PerfectDeath]

Well, I havn't really watched either; they are really "junky" which is not a terrible thing. Sometimes the viewer just wants to let their brain shutdown a little.
The TL;DR of your comparison I'm getting is that TAW is better "junk food" than RWBY. Kay.

 

[Lightspeaker]

The second reason I like this anime is because... well, just listen to this ending song!

I can't really get on board with this, personally. I've not seen The Asterisk War (yet, maybe I'll give it a go if I ever clear a bunch of my backlog), nor RWBY. But a good ED or OP is not an excuse for a flat anime.

I'll be honest, I can like a bad anime. If there's at least some meat on its bones then I can forgive a LOT of flaws. Whether that's a character or characters I really like or the way they handle the setting or whatever. If there's something consistently throughout that I can appreciate then I can ignore the weaknesses. What I cannot forgive, however, is an anime that manages to outright bore me.

And a good OP or ED just isn't enough as far as I'm concerned. Listen to/Watch this:

That's the OP to Juuou Mujin no Fafnir aka Unlimited Fafnir. I love it. I think its a fantastic OP. Song is called "Flying Fafnir" by TRUSTRICK if anyone wants to look it up.

Its also fairly poor anime. It could have been good, but it wasn't. It was poorly put together, badly scripted and paced and...well I could sit here all day talking about the problems of this series. In short the series fell flat and no matter how much I like the OP for it, it doesn't excuse the fact that I was bored rigid by the third episode. It wasn't until episode 8 that some actual interesting story came into it but by that point it was far too late and then the final few episodes sort of petered out from there. It was boring and although I don't really regret the time spent watching it I can't recommend it to anyone at all.

 

[RandV80]

I'll never understand this perception of RWBY that exist in some places, particularly on here... do people not realize it's only a web series and not a professional production?

RWBY exists in an odd place where it's trying to be a professional production, but it has neither the budget nor he talent to do so. Though RoosterTeeth did see it fit for the DVD release (yes, there was a DVD release) to be priced at a similar level as a real series.

It wants to be a professional series, so a lot of people treat it as such, and that really does not bode well for them.

Taking a look at their store page a single season DVD is a rather standard price of $20. Coincidentally, this is the exact same price for the season DVD's of all their other shows.

I'd say the position RWBY exists in is it's an amateur project that's become as popular as professional projects, which brings in a lot of people online that will judge it by the latter.

And for the topic RWBY was obviously never meant to be a 'tournament' story

 

[Lightspeaker]

Taking a look at their store page a single season DVD is a rather standard price of $20. Coincidentally, this is the exact same price for the season DVD's of all their other shows.

...isn't that the exact problem that Zontar literally just pointed out but you're somehow trying to use it as a argument against people criticising it? The point is that if RWBY is an amateur project then they shouldn't be trying to sell it at the same price point as a professionally made series. It shouldn't be "a rather standard price" when considering the fact that its both an amateur project and rather shorter than most comparable series.

RWBY based on the wikipedia description comes in at 10 to 12 episodes at 12 minutes each per volume; so overall about two hours to two and a quarter hours in total. Quick google tells me twenty US dollars is about fourteen quid.

On Amazon right now I can get Strike Witches (10 episodes, ~25 minutes an episode) for fifteen pounds; a professionally-made series by a professional animation studio. I can get each of the Madoka movies (which are roughly around the same runtime as the whole of a volume of RWBY) for the same, they're professionally-made movies by a professional animation studio. Angel Beats? A little more, nineteen pounds. Hell I can get the 37-episode complete series of Death Note for twenty pounds (about 28 US Dollars).

RWBY in comparison is drastically shorter than comparable series AND costs the same, despite being an amateur production. That's the problem Zontar is pointing out. Its trying to be professional in cost and how it presents itself, but it doesn't have anything like the same level of production behind it as an actual professional product.


It only actually really compares favourably to Japanese releases of series, but I think by now everyone is well aware of how horrendously the Japanese get price gouged for anime series.

 

[Fox12]

Oh, my God. Did everyone just decide to read only a sentence or two and to make a rant on that instead of reading the whole thing?!

Spoiler

It would probably help if you cut down on the length of the posta little : /

The thing is, if you think that RWBY is mediocre, and you've admitted that TAW is mediocre, then what else is there to talk about? I admit that it was rude for some people to hurl insults around, but there's not much to discuss. The thing is, you try to compare the two shows, while also trying to review them. And in the end you don't really recommend either. I think you should choose to do one or the other. It would make your review both shorter, and more clear. A little constructive criticism. If you want to do a compare and contrast, then maybe choose an anime that did it really well. Then you can focus on how each succeed or failed.

Also, a friendly heads up, but this thread may get locked if it gets any more toxic.

 

[TakerFoxx]

Honestly dude, your relationship with RWBY is sort of...perplexing. I mean, the majority of your posts here are you starting threads talking about all the things RWBY is doing wrong to full on angry rants about the show, to the point where we're left with the impression that you hate RWBY. And yet you keep watching, and you keep posting about it. Hell, you even had a Weiss avatar for a while. So now it's coming off as bizarrely...tsudere-ish? Like, "I-It's not like I'm watching you because I like you!" So, do you like the show or do you not like it? And if you don't, why do you keep watching? Because I'll admit, RWBY didn't do it for me after a while, so I stopped watching and moved on. That was it.

 

[Lightspeaker]

I cant get mad at that just due to the fact that Rooster Teeth uploads every episode up to youtube first for everyone to watch, free and legally, whenever they want.

Seems to me that they're making DVDs purely for the more hardcore fans that want to support the show.

Well yeah, I can understand that. I've bought DVDs of things I already have access to on streaming services to support the creators and to help encourage the market for things I like. I just can't understand RandV80 trying to use "its a standard price" as a defence when they're talking about a standard price for a professional product as applied to an amateur product.

It'd be like me painting a picture and then trying to sell it for the same price as a Picasso (note: I'm not a painter, just to make that clear). Sure, if someone was a big fan of my painting and wanted to support me they could buy it. But on the whole in comparison with other, similarly priced works, it'd fall massively short and the price would be inappropriate.

I'm just baffled as to how this "standard price" argument it supposed to work out in favour of the series. When its clearly a strike against it.

 

[sageoftruth]

I don't think a mediocre show should copy another mediocre show. It's like directors copying Michael Bay. Heck, you even wrote several paragraphs admitting that the show is bad.

Bring back cowboy bebop, Eva, Lain, and princess Mononoke. Bring back the golden decade of anime.

That was my first thought as well, basically that comparing this to RWBY isn't doing it any favors. Still, people have their tastes. Some moviegoers just want explosions and sexy women washing cars, so if someone could do Michael Bay better than Michael Bay could, that would at least be worthy of consideration for the demographic that was looking for that sort of thing.

With that said, I haven't seen much of Asterisk War or RWBY. My understanding (based solely on Gigguk's opinion) is that Monty Oum is great at making ladies fight and making it look good, so does Asterisk war actually make it's fight scenes look better? If so, then maybe RWBY fans should give this anime a look.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Oh, my God. Did everyone just decide to read only a sentence or two and to make a rant on that instead of reading the whole thing?! Seriously, I feel like I'm being treated like a fucking heretic here because I dared to bring up The Asterisk War!

Not once did I say that TAW was a great show, nor do I think it's leagues better that RWBY. I was only comparing them because they shared similar concepts and I found that TAW did it better. The whole thing is still shit but I still ended up appreciating it more than RWBY. All my reasons are explained up above in the original post. Why don't you guys try reading that before making a comment of how "braindead" I am because I happened to like TAW a little.

For God Sakes! I'm not trying to make you guys agree with me. I was only trying to make a statement. Sorry if I offended all you guys.

You do realise how BIG of an openning post you typed right??? It's not suprising if people went TL: DR (like me) from trying to read it eventhought you did added paragraph and a video.

Honestly it abit more of an review if anything else (should had been in the review section?).

 

[Fox12]

I don't think a mediocre show should copy another mediocre show. It's like directors copying Michael Bay. Heck, you even wrote several paragraphs admitting that the show is bad.

Bring back cowboy bebop, Eva, Lain, and princess Mononoke. Bring back the golden decade of anime.

That was my first thought as well, basically that comparing this to RWBY isn't doing it any favors. Still, people have their tastes. Some moviegoers just want explosions and sexy women washing cars, so if someone could do Michael Bay better than Michael Bay could, that would at least be worthy of consideration for the demographic that was looking for that sort of thing.

With that said, I haven't seen much of Asterisk War or RWBY. My understanding (based solely on Gigguk's opinion) is that Monty Oum is great at making ladies fight and making it look good, so does Asterisk war actually make it's fight scenes look better? If so, then maybe RWBY fans should give this anime a look.

This is true, but the OP said that he didn't care much for The Asterisk War. I'm not really complaining about the show, but if you want to talk about improving an action series, I think it would be best to focus on a show that did really well with action. For instance, I didn't like Soul Eater very much, but its opening fight choreography was some of the best of all time.

Spoiler

Or you could discuss the way Madoka uses art direction to give fights a unique, fresh feel, while also reinforcing the emotional core of the scene.

Spoiler

You could focus on the unique use of color and sound in Avatar. The music is quiet and rhythmic, to match the beat of the fight, while underscoring its brutality. The colors are on opposite ends of the color spectrum, creating a scene that is pleasing to the eye, while also reinforcing the differences between the characters.

Spoiler

Or you could focus on the incredible ebb and flow of battle in End of Eva, and the way the pilots move like boxers, or wrestlers. The minimalist use of frames is also quite impressive, creating one of the best fight scenes of all time.

Spoiler

I don't think Asterisk War did anything particularly innovative in any areas, including action, by the OP's admission. I was simply making the point that if OP wanted to show where RWBY went wrong, he would be better off focusing on a series that handled similar material really well.

 

[sageoftruth]

I don't think a mediocre show should copy another mediocre show. It's like directors copying Michael Bay. Heck, you even wrote several paragraphs admitting that the show is bad.

Bring back cowboy bebop, Eva, Lain, and princess Mononoke. Bring back the golden decade of anime.

That was my first thought as well, basically that comparing this to RWBY isn't doing it any favors. Still, people have their tastes. Some moviegoers just want explosions and sexy women washing cars, so if someone could do Michael Bay better than Michael Bay could, that would at least be worthy of consideration for the demographic that was looking for that sort of thing.

With that said, I haven't seen much of Asterisk War or RWBY. My understanding (based solely on Gigguk's opinion) is that Monty Oum is great at making ladies fight and making it look good, so does Asterisk war actually make it's fight scenes look better? If so, then maybe RWBY fans should give this anime a look.

This is true, but the OP said that he didn't care much for The Asterisk War. I'm not really complaining about the show, but if you want to talk about improving an action series, I think it would be best to focus on a show that did really well with action. For instance, I didn't like Soul Eater very much, but its opening fight choreography was some of the best of all time.

Spoiler

Or you could discuss the way Madoka uses art direction to give fights a unique, fresh feel, while also reinforcing the emotional core of the scene.

Spoiler

You could focus on the unique use of color and sound in Avatar. The music is quiet and rhythmic, to match the beat of the fight, while underscoring its brutality. The colors are on opposite ends of the color spectrum, creating a scene that is pleasing to the eye, while also reinforcing the differences between the characters.

Spoiler

Or you could focus on the incredible ebb and flow of battle in End of Eva, and the way the pilots move like boxers, or wrestlers. The minimalist use of frames is also quite impressive, creating one of the best fight scenes of all time.

Spoiler

I don't think Asterisk War did anything particularly innovative in any areas, including action, by the OP's admission. I was simply making the point that if OP wanted to show where RWBY went wrong, he would be better off focusing on a series that handled similar material really well.

Wow. Thanks for all of those. I've only seen one of those scenes (Madoka). I should consider checking more of them out. Anyway, you make a good point. The OP's post wasn't about the quality of the fights but rather the frequency of them. Also, I liked how you pointed out the sheer number of ways to make a fight good. In the end, I guess this thread was intended to be an argument for how Rooster Teeth could structure its story better, rather than an argument for why one should watch The Asterisk War.

 

[Fox12]

snip

They're all really good, especially Neon Genesis Evangelion. The last ones not really an action series per se, though, so if you want a shonen style series, you may be better off with the others. It has the best plot, though.

 

[Lightspeaker]

People dont really pay top dollar for a panting because of quality or artistic skill, they pay for fame or historical significance. If you wanted to buy a Picasso because you thought it was pretty, you could easily buy a print of it for a minuscule fraction of the painting's real price.

You're really going to nitpick that to dodge the point?

Fine. Lets try again: a random newbie game developer makes an RPGMaker game in their spare time over the course of a couple of months. Then they manage to get it on Steam and price it the same as The Witcher 3 because its a 'standard price point for an RPG'.

Alternatively: if someone opens a restaurant, presents itself as top-class and starts charging the same prices as The Fat Duck (approaching three hundred pounds a meal, last I heard, including the service charge) then people will expect the food to be of the same quality.

It makes absolutely zero sense and the real world doesn't work that way. If you price something the same as professional work people can, will, and are completely right to, compare that to professional work. If you don't want to be compared to professional work and want to hang onto the 'amateur' status to escape such critical comparison then its indefensible to be presenting your work as professional and charging as such.

 

[sageoftruth]

snip

They're all really good, especially Neon Genesis Evangelion. The last ones not really an action series per se, though, so if you want a shonen style series, you may be better off with the others. It has the best plot, though.

Nah, not really. While I'm cautiously open to shonen, I've already lost my patience with a lot of typical shonen antics. I understand though that I'll need to temper my expectations a bit with Neon Genesis Evangelion, since its animation is on the old side. Still, it's definitely on my to-watch list. I have an curiosity for the anime portrayal of psychologically damaged people.

 

[Fox12]

snip

They're all really good, especially Neon Genesis Evangelion. The last ones not really an action series per se, though, so if you want a shonen style series, you may be better off with the others. It has the best plot, though.

Nah, not really. While I'm cautiously open to shonen, I've already lost my patience with a lot of typical shonen antics. I understand though that I'll need to temper my expectations a bit with Neon Genesis Evangelion, since its animation is on the old side. Still, it's definitely on my to-watch list. I have an curiosity for the anime portrayal of psychologically damaged people.

It's old, in the sense that it's entirely hand drawn, but the way they use animation is rather genius. I'm a bit of a curmudgeon, though, in that I love old animation. If you want something psychological, you can also try Serial Experiments Lain. Neon Genesis is the king of its genre, though, so what it lacks in shininess it makes up for in depth.