Discuss and Rate the Last Thing You Watched (non-movies)

Ag3ma

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Locke And Key season 3 (Netflix).

YA supernatural thriller about this family that made magic keys in a magic house which give them sort of superpowers. Unfortunately, the keys are also linked to an alternate dimension with some evil things that come out and cause havoc. You can guess the rest.

It's glossy, superficially decent... and incredibly annoying.

Incredibly annoying, because the kiddiwinks in it are just so utterly stupid, and the adults mostly not much better. Seriously, if they want prevent potential disaster, the first thing they need to do is send the youngest child, Bodie, into exile on the other side of the planet. I know he's supposed to be young, but he does not fucking learn. We are now in season three, and that prick is still screwing around with things he doesn't understand and absolutely shouldn't screw around with. My patience and sympathy for him runs to zero because even his youth cannot excuse his total, reckless disregard for other people's safety whenever he finds something cool he wants to play with. Nor have his siblings and mother realised that he cannot be trusted to be let out of their sight. In reality, one of them should take him aside and traumatise him with an in-depth and vituperative explanation of why X many people are dead because of him, that blood is on his hands for his negligence, and he needs to reflect on that and live with it for the rest of his days. Except this is YA, and they're not supposed to go there.
 

Bartholen

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1899 (Netflix).
I watched this too, and
I found it rather disappointing in the end. It got me on board with its lovecraft/bloodborne vibes, uncompromised vision and engaging character arcs, but the ending amounted ultimately to basically "it was all a dream", and it felt like a long pre-opening credits scene instead of a part of a bigger whole. Since Maura is the only one we ever see truly step outside the simulation, we basically have zero idea about any of the other characters, because we know all their arcs, memories and relationships were also total fabrication. So we're ultimately left knowing no more about the cast than we do at the very beginning, we know nothing about the larger plot it was heading towards, or what the overarching "thing" about the series was going to be, since you can only do The Matrix once. I'm still let down by the cancellation, because 1899 felt like it was truly trying to do something special and unique, even if it didn't really work for me.

In other things, in an effort to just once be up to date on the current big thing, I renewed my HBO subscription and watched the first episode of The Last of Us. I was pleasantly surprised, though some things did bug me a fair bit. It's a very faithful adaptation, sometimes slipping into outright live-action recreation right down to the dialogue, and it's very well executed. The scene where the grandma started twitching in the background was genuinely tense. Despite obviously knowing what was going to happen, the Sarah scene still got me a bit choked up. I'd like to hear someone's who's never seen this thoughts on it, since they were pretty clearly framing it like Sarah was going to be the main character of the series.

The interesting bits are where the series differentiates itself from the game. Joel here is characterized more as traumatized and angry instead of jaded and hardened. Will be interesting to see how that plays out. The addition of Tommy being part of the plot right from the outset and still being in contact with Joel also seems interesting, since it's bound to make their dynamic different.

Where this faltered most for me was the visuals. It feels rather stagey and claustrophobic a lot of the time, with a distinct lack of wide shots to give scale to the world. One I picked up on that it got more and more distracting. You're adapting one of the most famous game narratives of all time in a high-profile HBO series, surely you have the budget for more than a few post-apocalyptic sets. Bella Ramsey's american accent was also kind of shakey at times, but it's just the first episode.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Kindred

This is a FX/Hulu show that's called a miniseries though it's clearly intended to go on for multiple seasons.
Adapted from the legendary classic sci-fi/historical/magical realism novel by Octavia Butler. The premise is a modern-day black woman gets transported back to slavery times and has to reckon with her ancestry and surviving.

This show... man, it's something. Show-runner is the same dude that did that Watchman on HBO adaptation which personally I really liked. So messing with tough issues of race in sci-fi is not new for him. But with Watchmen, race wasn't explicitly a core issue, where with Kindred of course it is, specifically the legacy of slavery.

The novel is under 300 pages, and while Butler at one point considered connecting it to her Patternist saga of novels, ultimately it is a stand-alone story, which helped make it her most famous book because it allowed people to pick it up without having to be invested in a whole other thing. This show uses some of Butler's supposed original intentions to expand, add characters, and draw it out.

The results are extremely mixed. The plus side is the setup is wonderful- they change the relationship a bit between the main character and her husband in a way that works to help make the first episode really really great.
But the more time that gets spent in the past on the plantation, the show's flaws get drawn out. The biggest problem is that the plantation owner and family are preposterous characters. Like they just start yelling at each other all the time, to the point where it's a wonder they can put on their breeches let alone manage a plantation. Everything starts to feel like a bad period piece play, like everything is "fake." I dunno if it's the production, the acting, the dialogue... I guess a bit of each?

The unfortunate result is that it makes the main characters themselves seem absurd at times. Even when I want to chalk up the decisions to their traumatic circumstances, the production weaknesses makes that hard.

And it ends without an ending- sort of a cliffhanger, I guess.

So in conclusion, when it comes to Kindred the TV show, I strongly recommend reading Kindred the novel. Personally I will wait to see if they even make any more episodes and I dunno if I'll watch it. There is the core of something potentially good there, but the execution was wildly all over the place.
 

Bartholen

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I watched a new (for me anyway) episode of Rick and Morty after not watching one since like 2020. It was the "Full Meta Jackrick" episode, before which I rewatched "Never Ricking Morty", ie. the "Story Train" episode. These serve as a pretty decent two-parter, since they both revolve around the same themes and characters despite there being two whole seasons between them. Both are super meta breakdowns of story structure and writing overall full of fourth wall breaks, story divergences and non-sequiturs. They're fun from a purely creative perspective, but man does the writing disappear up its own asshole when it comes to the meta commentary. Especially in the second episode Rick being Roiland and Harmon's mouthpiece becomes so blatantly obvious that it's downright painful at times. There is such a thing as being too self-aware for your own good, and it feels like this series has crossed firmly into that territory based on what little I've seen of season 6. Being conscious of using writing tropes, lampooning them, and then doing them anyway stops being charming and just becomes annoyingly self-satisfied after the 5th time or so.
 
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Xprimentyl

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Nate Bargatze: Hello World: Fucking Hilarious / Great

Who doesn't like a good stand-up routine? This one is brilliant without pushing boundaries with raw language or divisive topics. It's just funny, and his comedic timing and delivery are impeccable. While I do enjoy "raunchy" and "crude" humor, I can admit it was refreshing to watch someone kill it without being purposefully edgy and overtly in-your-face. I also like that he acknowledged that fact in this set, admitting his strict Christian upbringing and how he had "no fun" in his youth, and is squeamish using foul language to this day. Highly recommended if you've any semblance of a sense of humor.

 

Baffle

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The Midnight Club. A fairly young-adult kind of drama show about youngsters with terminal illnesses living in a posh hospice who tell each other scary stories at night. There's a general underlying horror theme and I cannot even remember if that ever gets resolved.

It's not actually a bad show (though yadulty), but none of the kids actually seem that ill. I appreciate that showing the realities of terminal illness would not be palatable, and this is supposed to be light entertainment, it just seeming weird that no one in it shows any real signs of illness.
 

Absent

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The boring one
Watched the Guardians of Galaxy Holiday Special. Mostly as an introduction to the CinemaWins episode. My hopes were up. But that thing wasn't for me. Found it a but gooey and heavy-handed, trying too hard to be emotional, trying too hard to be funny... Just too straightforward, hitting predictable notes and jokes. Then again, I'm not a christmas person, and even worse : I'm the kind of public Waititi writes for. I don't get tired of his repeated build-up-and-defuse stylistic jokes. In contrast, I get tired of sequences that keep playing it straight, which this short film was made of.

So, one fun song at the titles and a couple of nice deliveries. But I felt a cultural/sensitivity wall between me and its target audience. I appreciated on the behalf of kids who'd be really enthusiastic about christmas and like jokes to be clearly underscored. And maybe Doctor Who got me used to christmas specials that feel less directly about christmas.
 
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Dirty Hipsters

This is how we praise the sun!
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Brand New Cherry Flavor

A limited series on Netflix. A girl meets with a Hollywood producer who who sees her student film, thinks she's talented and wants to mentor her. When she doesn't want to sleep with him he steals her movie idea and she decides to put a curse on him to destroy his life. Then a bunch of fucked up shit happens.

I highly enjoyed it. I would describe it as Neon Demon meets The Craft.

It's an 8 episode series, 40-50 minute episodes, so not a huge time commitment and definitely worth a watch.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Witcher: Blood Origins
It's not that bad!
Ok look, I'm one of the very few remaining defenders of Netflix's Witcher series. I mean.. it's not amazing, lol, but the whole "true to the source material" and Cavill love-fest internet loud shit-poster brigade has really come down on this series which is pretty fun TV.

This is a prequel to that and the biggest criticism I saw is that, since it's only a few episodes and takes place centuries before the main series, it can feel like it has no reason to exist. Well... sure, I guess, unless the reason is just to watch a TV show for entertainment. I would honestly argue you could say the same thing about House of Dragon, but whatever.

Anyway, the show is sort of an origin story and yes they radically change or take liberties with some of the stuff hinted at in the books *shrug*
It is a story of an arrogant empire that, through in-fighting and imperialism, creates a cataclysmic event that brings the races of people we see in the show together with monsters and scary magic. A band of plucky heroes unite to fight back and in the process end up creating a proto-witcher.
Other criticisms were for the production and I admit I don't have a great eye for that stuff but it didn't look any worse than the second season of the main show, which means it has its moments both good and bad.

I know this is gonna seem crazy but to me the Witcher shows look better than Rings of Power, because despite the fact that it can look chintzy, at least it has more of an identity. It leans into its fantasy trappings without being apologetic or pretentious or ponderous about it.

Michelle Yeoh is the big star and she's playing the kind of character she plays on TV these days- the totally badass better than everyone type. So that's fun. The real main characters are a grumbly gruff muscle man and a totally cool singing warrior chick. I mean, everyone is basically a D&D character, lol.
It's good fun, only 4 episodes. It was supposed to be 6 and Netflix ordered them to chop it down and absolutely you feel that, it hurts the character arcs, but it's not like we really need many hours of this thing so it's fine.
 

Baffle

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Physical 100 on Netflix. Korean physical challenge thing, like Gladiators but miles longer and the challenges take ages.

The dubbing is weird, I'm not sure if it's actually translated or they just got a bunch of people to make up their own dialogue.

A weird smack-talk bit before each match which is very polite.
 
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Ag3ma

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Witcher: Blood Origins
It's not that bad!
Are you sure about that?

It seems like gap-filler until Season 3. It's all very expensively and competently done and all that, but essentially it dashes us through a mini-story with too many characters for us to pay attention to and develop satisfactorily and too disconnected from the "main" Witcher to really give it much grounding.

Okay, it's not bad. But nor is it good, and I cannot help but think the money could have spent on something a lot more interesting. (Although knowing Netflix, it would probably have been spent on 23 "real crime" documentaries, so maybe it was worth it...)
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Not watched but listened to.

The Calisto Protocol: Helix Station


A Horror Sci-Fi podcast I saw recommended by a youtuber whose content I watch.

It's free most places you can get podcasts.

I can best describe it as a story somewhere between Event Horizon and John Carpenter's The Thing in terms of tone and content. I wouldn't say it's some grand classic but it's very well done pretty solidly written with shockingly fleshed out and troubled characters what was was pretty much a podcast made to advertise a video game.

The work on the audio is fantastic, the creaks of the decaying metal station the strange machine noises just off in distance in the background and the expected horror moments of the crunching sound of bones when required.

This may actually be a piece of advertising work that far outlives (and rightfully should outlive) the product it was made to advertise.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Poker Face - solid first few episodes

It is very close to being literally Columbo. You see the whole murder unfold for the 1st 10 minutes or so, then you have the main character played by Natasha Lyonne (from Russian Doll) figured out how it happened. She has the rather convenient power of being able to always know when people are lying. She plays the character rather like Columbo as well where she's constantly nagging people via questioning. It's also created by Rian Johnson.

---

Shrinking - solid first 2 episodes

A show about a shrink, played by Jason Segel, who basically stops giving a fuck and tells his patients straight up what their problems are. His wife recently passed and he's having trouble moving on and connecting with his daughter. Harrison Ford plays a shrink as well (co-worker) and is basically Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino sans the racism. The show is created by Scrubs and Ted Lasso's Bill Lawrence.
 
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Piscian

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Im 3 episodes in Vox Machina season 2 and I gotta say its a significant step up from the first season. The writing and animation budget seems much higher.

Where as the first season was as much comedy as serious fantasy this one is pretty much all business. Theres still puns, but theyre sharper and more contextual.

The season weirdly kicks off like 5 minutes after the first with an invasion of dragons that have for reasons unknown, though questioned aloud, joined together in an enclave to rule. Their first act of business is to literally destroy the capital. Its pretty extreme like 100k people die on screen in the first 10 minutes, so already the tone if this season is pretty somber. The team barely escape with a few refugees. I dont want to spoil too much but this seasons writing feels much more intune with the old DND TSR books with the Godwars stuff.

I mostly enjoyed the first season but it felt kinda all over the place both in tone and stories. This one feels much more like it has a direction its going rather than being stories piecemeal. Definitely recommend.
 

Drathnoxis

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I just watched Tribunal from Season 2 of Star Trek: Deep Space 9. The writing in Star Trek is just absolute garbage at least 50% of the time. Who read this crap and said "great, let's shoot it!"

So the premise is that O'Brien is abducted by the Cardassians in Federation (or at least Bajoran) space, less than 1/2 a day from the station, taken back to Cardassia, declared guilty, and set to be executed without trial for a crime he didn't commit. And the Federation does NOTHING to stop this. Sisko and co. spend the whole episode looking for evidence about the crime despite the fact that Cardassian trials are a joke and 'new evidence cannot be submitted after the verdict is reached' which it was... before the trial began. This is an act of war, there aren't two ways about it. O'Brien wasn't in Cardassian space, the demilitarized zone, or anywhere near it, the Federation should be demanding O'Brien back immediately and threatening war. You can't just be letting foreign nations kidnap your ranking officers and sentence them to death on trumped up charges, you just can't. Might as well just surrender the entire Federation to Cardassia at that point because you've made it clear that they can do whatever they want in your space. It's ridiculous. At least write that O'Brien is entering Cardassian space (god only knows why), because nothing works otherwise.

I don't know why it was so easy to steal photon torpedoes from deep space 9 anyway. Their security is a complete joke if all you need to do it and frame someone is a recording of the chief of engineering's voice.

In the end they find that Cardassia killed a federation killed a federation officer 8 years back and have had a spy wearing his skin the whole time and all they use this for is in a quiet exchange for O'Brien's release. Are you serious? After that farce of a trial, you're satisfied with a simple exchange?! This episode makes the Federation look like spineless morons.
 
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Gordon_4

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I just watched Tribunal from Season 2 of Star Trek: Deep Space 9. The writing in Star Trek is just absolute garbage at least 50% of the time. Who read this crap and said "great, let's shoot it!"

So the premise is that O'Brien is abducted by the Cardassians in Federation (or at least Bajoran) space, less than 1/2 a day from the station, taken back to Cardassia, declared guilty, and set to be executed without trial for a crime he didn't commit. And the Federation does NOTHING to stop this. Sisko and co. spend the whole episode looking for evidence about the crime despite the fact that Cardassian trials are a joke and 'new evidence cannot be submitted after the verdict is reached' which it was... before the trial began. This is an act of war, there aren't two ways about it. O'Brien wasn't in Cardassian space, the demilitarized zone, or anywhere near it, the Federation should be demanding O'Brien back immediately and threatening war. You can't just be letting foreign nations kidnap your ranking officers and sentence them to death on trumped up charges, you just can't. Might as well just surrender the entire Federation to Cardassia at that point because you've made it clear that they can do whatever they want in your space. It's ridiculous. At least write that O'Brien is entering Cardassian space (god only knows why), because nothing works otherwise.

I don't know why it was so easy to steal photon torpedoes from deep space 9 anyway. Their security is a complete joke if all you need to do it and frame someone is a recording of the chief of engineering's voice.

In the end they find that Cardassia killed a federation killed a federation officer 8 years back and have had a spy wearing his skin the whole time and all they use this for is in a quiet exchange for O'Brien's release. Are you serious? After that farce of a trial, you're satisfied with a simple exchange?! This episode makes the Federation look like spineless morons.
Bajoran space is still sovereign and not part of the Federation. That’s a (slim as shit) justification for that not being an act of war. The Cardassians wouldn’t have likely tried that if O’Brien was in Federation space. Plus since they took O’Brien it might also be lingering resentment against his former CO, Captain Maxwell for nearly rumbling the Cardassians prepping for war back in TNG. He featured heavily in that episode and I doubt his name escaped the Obsidian Order’s attention.

Also the whole point of Deep Space Nine - as far as I can tell - is to make the Federation look stupid and spineless so that all the dodgy shit Sisko does before, during and after the Dominion war look like a case of a hard edged man doing what he had to do. And to lecture us about having it too good. I dunno, Babylon 5 did it better as an original IP.
 
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Xprimentyl

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Watched the 30 for 30 on "The Tuck Rule." It's Tom Brady and Charles Woodson (the two players most immediately involved in the infamous, league-changing play) talk through it. For those not in the know:

Raiders vs. Patriots ("Tuck Rule Game") (2001)[edit]
Main article: Tuck Rule Game
See also: 2001 Oakland Raiders season and 2001 New England Patriots season
The tuck rule resulted in a controversial finish to an AFC divisional playoff game on January 19, 2002, between the New England Patriots and the Oakland Raiders.

In the closing moments of the fourth quarter of the game in a snowy Foxboro Stadium, with New England trailing by three points, New England quarterback Tom Brady dropped back to pass. After he had begun a passing motion, Brady clearly ceased his throwing motion, pulled his right hand down below his shoulder and had touched the ball to his left hand when, coming off the strong side corner blitz, Charles Woodson knocked the ball out of Brady's hands. Raiders middle linebacker Greg Biekert then fell on the loose football. The officials initially called the play a recovered fumble, which would have sealed the victory for the Raiders. After instant replay, referee Walt Coleman reversed this call, declared the play an incomplete forward pass, and gave possession back to New England. In explaining the reversal to the crowd, Coleman stated that the ball was moving forward at the time it was dropped.[5] In later interviews, Coleman stated that it was his explanation, not the reversal, that was in error; the ball was moving backwards when it was lost, but the tuck rule applied. Patriots kicker Adam Vinatieri later tied the game with a 45-yard field goal; in overtime, the Patriots defeated the Raiders on another field goal. Two games later, the Patriots won Super Bowl XXXVI.

The NFL defended the call, but Bruce Allen, who ran the front office for the Raiders at the time of the game, said, "The rule itself doesn't bother me, but the way the rule is written, it was a fumble."[1] The NFL's Competition Committee re-examined the rule after the season but did not change the rule.
Easily some of the most entertaining television [for a sports fan] that I've seen in a long time. I love the intimate conversation between competitors where there's no refs, no challenge flags, no coaches, no broadcast guys weighing in; just the two guys who were there, in the fray, giving their take on the situation like two friends sitting on the couch arguing the call. The best moment was when Brady, trying to defend the call, gave a demonstration with Woodson and a football, and "accidentally" admitted it was a fumble trying to prove his point that it wasn't. It's arguably the play that kickstarted Brady's dynasty given had the play gone the other way and they lost, he likely would have been benched for Drew Bledsoe for whom he was playing backup. He went on to become nigh inarguably the greatest QB of all time... because of that singular moment and the fucking tuck rule.

I, like many (maybe most,) am of the opinion it was a fumble, but the history is written and can't be changed, but seeing Woodson be able to finally call Brady out to his face... fucking priceless. I watched it twice.
 

Absent

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The boring one
Daredevil and Jessica Jones after She-Hulk.

I'm not a marvel/dc superhero at all. I don't like the concepts, the costume, the superhumanity of it all. I come from the tintin/spirou cultures of heroes just being heroes because they mean well with enough dedication. Or from the james bond school of just being very much trained but any possible occurence (yeah, the batman thing is a bit hybrid with that). My superpowered heroes are a bit grotesque. Asterix and his potion. Benoît Brisefer, the little svhoolkid with super-strength. Comics super-strength is so out of proportion with human potentials that I always found muscular superheroes ridiculous - as if there could be anything related, in these magical feats of strength, to how fit these human shapes would be. Anyway, long rant to say, I'm not the ideal public for superheroes stories.

But I enjoy the MCU for its sitcom aspects. The banter (which ends up irritating some), the casting, the characterizations. I'm in awe in front of how many different characters are made psychologically believable and sympathy-inducing, even if recognizably different. It's a great charismatic ensemble that makes me enjoy the least likely MCU movies. And also makes me like the Waititi kind of epic-undercutting humor, and makes the protracted superfights horribly boring to me. I understand some feel the opposite way.

Coming from there, I enjoyed She-Hulk quite a bit. I was first a tad irritated by the fourth wall breaking which (comic-ally, marvel-ously incult that I am) I first perceived as a Fleabag rip-off, or Deadpool-redundant, before realising that it was actually very faithful to the original comics. And it had been my only gripe. I just had a lot of fun with it, like I had with Wandavision before Wandavision devolved into a DBZ supertedious superlong superfight like all MCU stuff seems contractually forced to. She-Hulk avoided that. In an interesting way, even though I had mixed feelings about it (it did ditch stupid plotlines, but at the cost of a twist not that much better than it-was-all-a-dream clichés). Nevermind, it was all in all worth it, as a sub-Good-Place comedy. It had a bit of a Russian Doll vibe, and, well, that was more than I expected from an MCU movie.

MCU commercials inserts work well. The Daredevil cameo in that Spider-Man movie and in She-Hulk got me interested in the character (again, the sheer force of charismatic characterization), so I've watched that. The premise is dumb and can't stay truly consistent. A handicapped superhero compensative their weaknesses would be interesting, but Daredevil isn't blind, he super-sees. There are a few good exploitations of his supposed specificity (silent ninjas, occasional loss of power) but all in all, blindness is just remembered when convenient. And... the fights are well made, much more self-serious than a she-hulks, yet a bit more interesting than standard superheroes ones. There's a bit of jacky chan or early james bond invention in them, they have a vague chess aspect (or, shall I say, Hoplite aspect, or, would I maybe say if I played it, Fights in Tiny Spaces), in that they look clever and almost turn-based. Although, they are often uselessly long. But surprisingly, the plot, the character, the atmosphere, these are top notch, and I think the series would have been a great serious drama if the silly marvel over-the-top powers had been removed. It deserved better than the MCU. It also deserved better than its second season. But the 1st one, and the half of the 3rd one that I've seen so far, are brilliant modern TV.

Also, Jessica Jones was good. At least the one season I watched. Mostly because Tennant, and the freaky TwillightZonesque Kilgrave. The series doesn't dare going to the same explicit places as the graphic novel, but does take the opportunity to explore the same more everyday anxieties and feminist themes as She-Hulk, and does it very well. And again, fantastic cast and acting, the true trademark of the MCU, even if it has little else in common with it.

So, there. These things. For what it's worth. Three thingies which qualities really surprised me, and quite outside my usual territory.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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1923 - thru episode 5

Like 1883 before it, the grit of this show really kinda puts Yellowstone to shame. Then again, modern day issues in the Montana cattle ranching vs land scheming scene can’t really compare with how brutal the “Indian schools” were, among other things.

Also ghost ships, while unassuming, seem kinda fricken terrifying.
 

Bartholen

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Im 3 episodes in Vox Machina season 2 and I gotta say its a significant step up from the first season. The writing and animation budget seems much higher.
Very much agreed.

Having just binged the available 9 episodes, this season blows the first one out of the water in almost every respect. It makes sense that the first season had some stumbling blocks: it had to be both a succinct character and world introduction, as well as deliver on perhaps still the most fan favorite story arc from the campaign. Now that that's out of the way and they can't coast on fanservice anymore, the second season is just a rollercoaster ride that never slows down. Basically every episode has a new and interesting environment, characters and story beats, almost to the point of feeling overstuffed, but it just about manages. I have no idea how it feels to someone who hasn't seen the entire campaign, but I've enjoyed it immensely so far. Cuts are made where they need to be, and there's some significant deviations from the campaign to avoid elements that would have just felt awkward in TV form. Almost every episode leaves on a hell of a cliffhanger, and the 2 friends I watched with audibly groaned in dismay at the end of the ninth episode. The animation and design is just leagues above the first season with some flat out amazing monster and environment designs.

I can't wait to see how the season ends, because it could end on one of several different "Wham" moments from the campaign, and the pieces have been shuffled around enough that I can't really know beforehand which one it's going to be.

There's a very funny meta moment in the fifth episode for those in the know: Keyleth's backstory is very much a riff (you could even say ripoff) on Avatar: The Last Airbender. Guess who plays her mom in that episode? Janet Varney, aka avatar Korra. What goes around comes around.