Uriel_Hayabusa said:
*sigh* My problem with this whole 'debate' is that people are projecting. They are projecting really, really hard. They assume that criticism of a thing is somehow criticism of them and that they are somehow "xyz-ist" for liking it.
Dude. I love so many bad shit. I love the crap out of it. But I can also sit down and prepare whole assignments about their failures, how their portrayal of race, men, women or anything is plain bad because it is either based on negative stereotypes or misinformation.
No. You are not sexist for liking a game that has certain sexist undertones. No one gives a fuck if you like it. But please, for the love of god, don't try and sell me the notion that the whole argument boils down to that false assumption where you can't even provide any evidence for.
Totally agreed. Where was everyone in high school English? Criticizing books and stories is very similar to video games, at least in structure. Criticism isn't the same thing as hate, and criticizing a work of art is not the same as criticizing the creator(s) or the audience. That would be silly, especially considering how much the meaning of a work can change depending on its audience regardless of the intent of the artist(s).
I've never seen anyone, even on YouTube comments say that if you like a work with sexist elements, then you are sexist. However, I do think one of the problems with video game criticism in general is that many times it's done carelessly and accompanied by unnecessary personal insults. I've had conversations with people (online) about a particular gender aspect of one game or another, and I've noticed it can quickly go from the normal, logically oriented argument of: I think A because of b, c, and d. No, A is wrong because e, f, and g. to something more along the lines of: No, it's A, which you would realize if you weren't an idiot. Stop talking.
So, perhaps it's a problem on both sides to an extent. Maybe many people are automatically on the defensive due to the tendency of some people online to jump from arguing based on the merits of the work to personally insulting others. I make sure not to insult people personally for their views, even when I think they're way off base. Personal insults aren't constructive at all and sort of indicate that you've run out of good arguments.
And in any case, whose favorite game of all time DOESN'T have any flaws? Obviously they all have some flaws, so why does it seem harder for people to talk about social issues in games than problems like poor mechanics or disappointing boss fights? I really enjoyed Deus Ex: Human Revolution, but the boss fights were underwhelming for someone who chose the no-kill, stealth track. I really enjoyed Resident Evil 3, but I think it was a poor design choice that they put Jill in a miniskirt and tube-top when she knows she's working in a city currently being overrun by zombies; it made no logical sense and gave off the sense of unnecessary sex appeal. Both of those arguments seem viable and reasonable to me. I wouldn't say that anyone who played DE:HR preferred the kill track due to the boss fights. I also wouldn't say that anyone who liked RE3 is a sexist because Jill's outfit was ludicrous.
I think this would be a non-issue if people would argue logically. I think talking about gender issues in games is best done on a game-by-game basis (at least at first) because otherwise you run the risk of making broad statements without having enough evidence for a nuanced argument. That's how other mediums do it. You can't write a 10 page English paper that encompasses all gender issues in literature in the last 20 years (not well, anyway). It would be a book-length endeavor requiring citations from other, smaller-scope works. I expect the same goes for video games.