But they had the content of a full game.hermes200 said:
And the Sims is an awful example. Detracting from something with the worst possible examples isn't any better than defending it with the best.
DLC Has Always Existed In Other Forms, Capcom Says
- Thread starter roseofbattle
- Start date
And the Sims is an awful example. Detracting from something with the worst possible examples isn't any better than defending it with the best.
Technically with Poke'mon you just needed a friend that had the other one and a link cable. Heck, now you don't even need either one. You can trade with anybody anywhere with a decent connection.erttheking said:
As for what capcom says: No.
Let's make a quick comparison to a modern expansion pack DLC and capcom's DLC.
Skyrim: New shape to take, new shouts, new powers, new environments, and a good 5 to 10 hours of more gameplay with the Dawnguard pack. 20 bucks new.
Now let's compare it to Street Fighter x Tekken: 13 bucks for clothes that do nothing to the gameplay, then 20 dollars more for characters that Vita players get for free.
Edit:
Sequels are also not DLC. Sequels tend to offer new mechanics, new stories, new environments, and new characters. DLC in capcom's case is at most a new character SKIN, and occasionally characters that were locked on the disc already.
Yeah, 20 or 30 bucks got you 6 entire new games on your Wolfenstein 3d purchase back in 1989. I'm doubting the 3 new skins of Blake and an alternate machine gun you'd get for that nowadays is really the same.
Expansion packs have always been a bit hit and miss though. There's been a few that were very close to some of the poorer DLC nowadays.
Expansion packs have always been a bit hit and miss though. There's been a few that were very close to some of the poorer DLC nowadays.
Oh Capcom, nice try at dodging the real problem.
The major complaint about DLC isn't its existence, it's the Value (Cost : Content ratio) of said DLC.
You offer less complete games compared to what you used to for the same cost, so the consumer Value has fallen. It's simple price gouging, and nothing more.
The major complaint about DLC isn't its existence, it's the Value (Cost : Content ratio) of said DLC.
You offer less complete games compared to what you used to for the same cost, so the consumer Value has fallen. It's simple price gouging, and nothing more.
Once upon a time, I bought Hordes of the Underdark for NWN and got a complete game experience that eclipsed the original campaign in every way. That was something worth buying. Nowadays, for the same amount of money I bought HotU for, I get a new skin for a character.
Yeah, we've had expansions just has long as we've had video games, heck, we've actually had expansions longer than video games (ie, TTRPG supplements).
Now, you see, what people don't like about DLC these days, is that most of them are... well, complete shit. Let's take an example of one of capcom's DLC. [http://store.steampowered.com/app/45791/?snr=1_7_7_151_150_1] £4 for a bunch of skins (I honestly neither know nor care how many skins). That's about a third of the cost of the full game. Now, however many textures are added in this "expansion", well... usually a full game will have several thousand textures in them. For some reason, I highly doubt this "expansion" adds that many textures, so... you have a mark-up of actual-effort to pay-out of around 1000x relative to the original release... and that's assuming this isn't just content cut from the original, which is a worrying trend we're seeing in a lot of DLC these days.
Capcom: People don't dislike the idea of DLC, they dislike your idea of DLC.
(Also, when you remove the context, "skin-pack" sounds like a euphemism for condoms. Thought I'd just throw that out there.)
Now, you see, what people don't like about DLC these days, is that most of them are... well, complete shit. Let's take an example of one of capcom's DLC. [http://store.steampowered.com/app/45791/?snr=1_7_7_151_150_1] £4 for a bunch of skins (I honestly neither know nor care how many skins). That's about a third of the cost of the full game. Now, however many textures are added in this "expansion", well... usually a full game will have several thousand textures in them. For some reason, I highly doubt this "expansion" adds that many textures, so... you have a mark-up of actual-effort to pay-out of around 1000x relative to the original release... and that's assuming this isn't just content cut from the original, which is a worrying trend we're seeing in a lot of DLC these days.
Capcom: People don't dislike the idea of DLC, they dislike your idea of DLC.
(Also, when you remove the context, "skin-pack" sounds like a euphemism for condoms. Thought I'd just throw that out there.)
Here is how games used to be Capcom:
It's really sad how low the gaming industry has fallen due to greed.
It's really sad how low the gaming industry has fallen due to greed.
This is why I differentiate between DLC and microtransaction. Microtransaction are those little items in game that nickle and dime you to death, but don't really add on much more than a single item or new skin. DLC, on the other hand, is closer to the equivalent of expansion packs, it's just easier to release them so there are more crap DLC, but probably roughly the same amount of good ones as there were good expansion packs.
I think previous posters have hit the nail pretty fucking roundly on the head. 'DLC' used to be sizable chunks of worthwhile content that significantly extends the game's life, although sequels in some franchises or genres were samey, mostly they were new fucking games. Currently, DLC is mostly shallow, doesn't add to the game meaningfully, is overpriced, comes in the form of preorder bonuses, content cut for time, exclusive editions and other ways that are basically just to make the customer less able to evaluate value for money and to feel like they don't have the full experience. The fact that Capcom seems to think it's all the same goes a long way to explaining some of their decisions even back when other people were trying to do the ethical thing and sell a good product.
Yeah Capcom pulled that shit with Street Fighter 2 and a few other games.[footnote]Like when they released 3 versions of the original Resident Evil. The first one having removed auto-targeting for the North American release, which was REALLY cheap since half the time you can't see what you're shooting at in that game thanks to "cinematic" camera angles. I think the final release just changed the musical score and added rumble feedback.[/footnote] Other companies were never able to get away with it. In retrospect we probably shouldn't have let it slide for Capcom either. This is one of the reasons it's a bad idea to buy a game the year it comes out, just wait and get the GOTY edition for less than half the price.
To be fair though, Diablo II is what 14 years old now? Adjust for inflation and the Dead Space 3 example is a little more reasonable. Still more than 30 dollars, but not extreme.Cecilo said:
OT: Tell me again Capcom how it's my fault for being older (18), stupider (did rather well in year 12), uninformed (I have the internet...), western (Australia is in the Asian-Pacific region(though yeah we are more western in culture)) and all in all just not getting IT (I get it, I just don't like it) and that's why your games are failing, because of me, not you.
"You see? A character skin in street fighter is totally as much content as Starcraft Brood Wars!"
Oh yeah Yoshinori, that's totally a valid comparison. And furthermore, blow me.
Oh yeah Yoshinori, that's totally a valid comparison. And furthermore, blow me.
I was going to work out something sarcastic, but I think for once I'll just straight out say that that's bullshit.
Yes, Capcom released Street Fighter II Championship Edition and Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting Edition and yatta yatta yatta. But that didn't keep them from releasing Street Fighter III. Ghouls and Ghosts is not just Ghosts and Goblins with a couple of new weapons and some reskins, nor was Strider II a quick and dirty coat of paint on Strider. And as far as the industry goes, while the people who made Donkey Kong Jr. or Galaga may have been working on similar hardware to that on which they produced Donkey Kong or Galaxian, I very much doubt they thought of their work as the kind of minor, incremental upgrade we typically see in DLC these days, nor did the people who played them.
Defend DLC on it's own merits, if you will. I'll certainly grant that some DLC is worth its cost, and some adds enough to an otherwise complete game that it doesn't seem like a rip-off. But don't offer me warmed-over beans and protest that I liked the meal yesterday when it was chicken cordon bleu, okay?
Yes, Capcom released Street Fighter II Championship Edition and Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting Edition and yatta yatta yatta. But that didn't keep them from releasing Street Fighter III. Ghouls and Ghosts is not just Ghosts and Goblins with a couple of new weapons and some reskins, nor was Strider II a quick and dirty coat of paint on Strider. And as far as the industry goes, while the people who made Donkey Kong Jr. or Galaga may have been working on similar hardware to that on which they produced Donkey Kong or Galaxian, I very much doubt they thought of their work as the kind of minor, incremental upgrade we typically see in DLC these days, nor did the people who played them.
Defend DLC on it's own merits, if you will. I'll certainly grant that some DLC is worth its cost, and some adds enough to an otherwise complete game that it doesn't seem like a rip-off. But don't offer me warmed-over beans and protest that I liked the meal yesterday when it was chicken cordon bleu, okay?
And me. You see, Cappy, those were almost whole different games, if not ACTUALLY whole different games. Your weird hobby of reprinting the same Street Fighter games and adding ridiculous titles - Super Duper Uber Street Fighter Tournament Edition Alpha III! - was basically YOUR PROBLEM, because sequential numbering of fighter games has never been your strong suit. So, if you have this sort of problem as is, we don't expect you to know what in god's name you're talking about in terms of DLC. Brood War is - to take Race's example here - an entire game with new stuff in it, the second big chapter in the Starcraft saga. It is not the special adventure add-on with an extra charge added to unlock Zerg Lurkers or something. Thrice damn you for thinking so.Racecarlock said:
Yes, DLCs existed in the old days. We used to call them patches and they were free. The content you provide with DLCs nowadays was anyway.
We also had DLCs, the thinks you now call expansion packs. they were priced similary to current DLCs, but now you want more money for same thing.
We also had expansion packs. you renamed them to sequels.
So Capcom you should first of all learn what a DLC is and stop calling patches DLCs (that applies to the other companeis too) and stop asking money for what is essentialy game support you owe us.
We also had DLCs, the thinks you now call expansion packs. they were priced similary to current DLCs, but now you want more money for same thing.
We also had expansion packs. you renamed them to sequels.
So Capcom you should first of all learn what a DLC is and stop calling patches DLCs (that applies to the other companeis too) and stop asking money for what is essentialy game support you owe us.
His example fails on two fold.
Even IF DLC "existed" as he says,
1. People didn't complain about it then.
2. The climate was different then.
Even IF DLC "existed" as he says,
1. People didn't complain about it then.
2. The climate was different then.