DnD 4th Edition Commentary

[PedroSteckecilo]

Since Pen and Paper roleplaying has become a valid point of discussion in Off-Topic, has anyone read over Dungeons and Dragons Fourth Edition now that it's available? Does anyone have any thoughts?

Personally I like the new approach to Class Abilities and Combat but I also have my problems with it. I dislike how they seem to have divorced Character Concept from Character Creation as you should be fitting Concept around Class rather than vice versa. It's a bad example of "Rules First Roleplaying".

 

[Fallensky7]

Fuckin Awesome!

 

[Lord_Ascendant]

I the bygone days when I played Advanced D&D it was actually fun. Nowadays I just boot up Guild Wars.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

See I never liked any edition before 3e, but now 4e seems to be shifting BACK in that direction, which I don't like. I'd prefer my abilities to reflect my ability choices, rather than vice versa.

 

[mrverbal]

If I wanted to play WoW, I'd go buy it.

Wizards only released the game this year because of what a dog dreamblade turned out to be, and hazbro forced them to make a big release this year. It was slated for 2010, and needed the extra 18 months dev so they didn't have to just release the first set of ideas they had.

 

[zen5887]

Dont get me started XD

 

[dungeonmaster]

I already bought 3rd edition and it was a little broken, so I bought 3.5 which was really super heroish, NOW THEY WANT ME TO BUY ANOTHER 3 BOOKS?!!!

and they keep re-releasing old expansion content all the time with slight changes?
obviously a big money grab in pen and paper RPG's, or 4th edition rocks and I just dont know it

 

[Mirika_the_warrior]

Personally I am looking forward to the day it is released(only for the sales of v3.5 supplements that will most likely occur,but other than that I am not going like it, because there are so many unnecessary changes to the basic rules, and various things to dethrone the master race of DMs (me) so that the average nitwit could play at being a D&D god. the only thing It is doing right is including an online game table and killing off the gnomes a basic player race (which I have already done at my table)

 

[vede]

I am sorry that D&D has gone this far. I play AD&D 2e now, because it seems to be less about the characters becoming super-freaking-awesome-super-heroes. More recently, D&D has seemed more and more about player characters practically becoming demigods (or gods, I remember seeing something about a path description being 'the path to godhood') and getting magic items (which seem to be conveniently EVERYWHERE) powerful enough to stop unstoppable forces. One of my players is level 4 and the only magic item he has is a dagger that deals extra damage to mages. His other non-magical, but special items consist of an elven chain shirt (which is just lighter), an elven bow (+1 accuracy), and a sword that boosts morale in allies, nothing super spectacular or amazing. This way, you know, players have to actually plan carefully and use tactics and strategy and have clever ideas... instead of just being able to teleport out or blow the world up or something.

As for 4e, they took bards out(not so bad, but didn't replace with a diplomat class), and they took gnomes out(gnomes account for almost half of my world's history, so this is more personal than universal). And from everything else that I've seen, it jsut sucks overall. It seems so much like a ruleset for a P&P hack-n-slash game, not D&D how I've always imagined it.

 

[BlackLiger]

Bard skills some were moved to cleric, and the new 'Warlord' Class is a more combat oriented bard type, can buff other characters, but isn't BRILLIANTLY tough himself/herself.

 

[LV Solace]

The two problems I noticed were, having to make choices based off an idea, and that magicallly items were ruining games. These are in the game and a design flaw(arguable) and can be prevented by the people in the game.

Firstly I have always built my characters around an idea rather than a class. It gave me a little bit more control. I've always used that style since 3'rd.

Secondly was my characters have to many magical items. who gives that characters magical items? thats right it's the DM. if you have a good DM they should not have enery little beastie drop "+700 sword of doom" instead have a good portion drop "fragile dagger of impotence"

PErsonally I'm looking forward to 4'th even if it meens my hobby shop will finally have a new set of books in. I'll reserve my final judgement until then.

 

[Razzle Bathbone]

I already bought 3rd edition and it was a little broken, so I bought 3.5 which was really super heroish, NOW THEY WANT ME TO BUY ANOTHER 3 BOOKS?!!!

and they keep re-releasing old expansion content all the time with slight changes?
obviously a big money grab in pen and paper RPG's, or 4th edition rocks and I just dont know it

Hypothetical question:

Suppose an new company came along and published a fantasy role-playing game that was similar in some ways to D&D 3.x, but had a lot of differences as well. Suppose it came out and some gamers liked the new company's game better, and others preferred WotC's D&D 3.x games.

Would you consider it a money grab on behalf of the new company? And if not, why is it a money grab when WotC does it?

They're publishing a new game. Because they're GAME PUBLISHERS. That's what they do. Should they stop making new roleplaying games? If not, why should they stop making new D&D games?

 

[Razzle Bathbone]

I am sorry that D&D has gone this far. I play AD&D 2e now, because it seems to be less about the characters becoming super-freaking-awesome-super-heroes.

If you didn't play in a ridiculous Monty Haul campaign when you were ten years old,
if you didn't cheat and powergame the hell out of the system to the point of total absurdity,
if you didn't start killing gods beginning with page one of the old "Deities and Demigods" handbook,


then sir, you were never truly a D&D-playing kid. And for that, I pity you.

 

[Kovash86]

I played in one Monty Haul game and hated it every step of the way it felt like I was a magic weapon transportation system rather than I am a dude that is a badass and is made more so with certain items, it seemed like a one-note joke. I've ran a game of 4th, everyone is the same damage wise the number of targets vary. That's basically the only difference between everyone, except the paladin, who can out-fight a fighter, out heal a cleric, out damage a rogue or a mage, all the while walking around in the heaviest armor, which no one else can even fighters don't get plate at level 1, carrying all but the absolutely heaviest weapons (no superior without feats) and having some of the best saves. While I like what they did with some of it they went overboard in other places, that's my take on it (or at least part of it, after this sentence it would turn into individual gripes.)

 

[Razzle Bathbone]

I played in one Monty Haul game and hated it every step of the way

Were you much older than ten? If you were, then of COURSE you hated it. Only destructive little children can truly appreciate the awesomeness of Monty Haul-style play. Grown-ups (and even most teenagers) are too discerning and sophisticated to enjoy that kind of naked power fantasy.

 

[Kovash86]

In previous games I have seen the epitome of power you can achieve as a character through the use of magic items, I once crafted a scout which was so absurdly powerful that he could take on creatures who had considerably higher CRs than his level by himself and win, consistently. That character's most expensive item was his armor followed up by his bow, even then I had built him at level 11 using the PHB 2 rules for having money at that level, which meant he was "balanced" money wise. Naturally it doesn't help that this character thought of horrible things to do to his enemies when they pissed him off, not torture or anything like that but if they did crap that annoyed him like knocking him down, grappling him, using time stop on him, he would find a way to make their last few seconds of life absolutely miserable, generally by stripping them of their power through something.