Do you consider Lilith Aensland fans Lolicons?

LilithSlave

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Because I've heard a lot of people call them that.

I may permanently ruin any respect I may have ever said by letting out where my username comes from. Well, worse than it was already.

But I've been a big fan of Lilith Aensland ever since she was first introduced. And she's still my favourite fighting game character of all time. And not in some platonic "I think she's cool" sort of way. But in a "I'm perversely and creepily obsessed with a fictional character" sort of way. My username, if you hadn't figured out the OH SO CRYPTIC reality by now, it's a bdsm related reference of sorts to Lilith Aensland. "Lilith's Slave". It's hard to put characters like ' in usernames, so I just had to go with the easiest method.

Remember how I'm known apparently as like this crazy feminist or something that thinks guys should not be macho, and women should not be objectified and sexualized so much. Like somehow my criticism means I think something should be illegal or is never okay or something like that instead of "hey, don't you think the direction we're going might be a little unhealthy?". But me, miss crazy something-something, love Litith, a fairly flat, unimportant, undeveloped hypersexualized succubus woman. From a franchise of games where only the women are sexualized.

I mean good lord, look at her clothes! And her demeanor! And her words! God, she's such an underdog too, if you know her story. They practically killed her right after introducing her. I've been lucky she gets lots of cameo's because I'm apparently not the only one who likes her. Oh, and in before someone calls me a hypocrite for liking her, considering my stances on other things.

It's really strange, she has almost nothing to her, but she's one of my favourite fictional characters and I lap up everything that has her. I flipped out when I heard she would be in Cross Edge.

That's right, that's what my name means. I would be Lilith's Slave. A fictional, animated, 2D "manga" character.

But while I pretty happily and thoroughly like this character. I've noticed one thing over the years said in the gaming community about Lilith and Lilith fans. Is that they're always calling Lilith a loli and Lilith fans lolicons. That's pretty much just a few steps from outright calling us paedophiles. And I really don't get it, either. I've never seen her as anything other than an adult. She's younger than Morrigan, but I doubt she's super young or anything. She's a flippin' succubus. She's 5 feet and 6 inches tall, basically as tall as Morrigan, and taller than a lot of real life adult women. She's got long legs(to confirm her stated height). And her sprite is just as big as Morrigan's, also to confirm her height. And the only real physical difference between her and Morrigan, is she doesn't have big boobs.

Has the term "lolicon" really just finally become another word for "into flat chests" or maybe even "into kinda somewhat a little young looking", or are people literally calling Lilith fans a bunch of kinda paedos? If the latter, why?

So weigh in, gaming community. I like Lilith Aensland. A lot. Does that make me a lolicon? And what do you mean by that?
 

wintercoat

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No. Lilith has small breasts and is a bit short, but to call her loli is stretching it a bit.
 

Acier

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Yeah, Rachael from BlazBlue I get being called loli... Lillith, not so much. It may have to do with the gothic aesthetic as well, but idk how heavily that factor into the concept of loli
 

wintercoat

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EClaris said:
Yeah, Rachael from BlazBlue I get being called loli... Lillith, not so much. It may have to do with the gothic aesthetic as well, but idk how heavily that factor into the concept of loli
It's because she's drawn 'cute'. Make anything with small breasts cute and it suddenly gets slapped with the loli tag.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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Who?

*googles "Lilith Aensland"*

Uh huh.

*google image search, same subject*

Huh.

...

I'm not sure what the exact parameters of "lolicon" are, but that character pretty clearly appeals to folks that way inclined. And judging by those image results, the appeal has been mighty successful.

Can't say I'm bothered by it. If someone else is sexually attracted to a suspiciously youthful looking fictional character than that's their business. Although lusting after something that doesn't exist seems like a waste of effort to me.
 

JaceArveduin

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Wiki say's she's 5' 6", which is about the same as me. I tried images, but I couldn't tell which where official and which were just fan art. Not sure the parameters of loli are, but I'm guessing being anywhere close to a normal adult height isn't one of them.
 

LilithSlave

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Zhukov said:
*google image search, same subject*
It's definitely true that there's a lot of fanart that tries to make her look as youthful as possible. And not even the official art is entirely consistent.

Personally, I like the artwork that tries to make her as mature as possible. Not giving her big boobs or anything like that, but with a mature, adult looking face and artwork that accentuates her tall height.

Like this, for instance.
 

Vereth

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LilithSlave said:
Personally, I like the artwork that tries to make her as mature as possible. Not giving her big boobs or anything like that, but with a mature, adult looking face and artwork that accentuates her tall height.
She's not an adult though. She takes that form because she has the mind of a little girl.
 

LilithSlave

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Vereth said:
She's not an adult though. She takes that form because she has the mind of a little girl.
Oh? Why? Do you have any proof of that as canon?

She's stated to be an incomplete form, and a piece of Morrigan's soul. Much to my chagrin as it lead to them not doing much with her character that isn't related to returning to Morrigan.

She has a bubbly personality, but not any more so than, say, Felicia. And why would a sexually active succubus(or heavily implied, at least) have "the mind of a little girl"? Because if anything, that's gross. They shouldn't be having a succubus, who acts more flirtatious than Morrigan as being stated as anything like having the "mind of a child". If she really is stated to be like this anywhere, can we retcon this please and make it less like this? Because a character stated to have the mind of a child should not act this sexually suggestive in a mainstream video game. Make her "piece of Morrigan soul" angle less important and give her own story. With lots of new characterization and development. Heck, I'd love to play a whole game about her. I've been dying for a lot of cool characterization about her since they introduced her but never got any.

And what do you mean takes on that form? She's as tall as Felicia and Morrigan? The only difference is that she doesn't have the big boobs of either. And maybe that her face is just a bit rounder. But there are plenty of adult anime characters with her face. Maybe I've been watching anime too long that it doesn't look kiddish. She doesn't have any younger looking of a face than Felicia, that's for sure. Who has a round face and big old anime eyes.

I don't know that what you're saying is canon as just your own interpretation. If what you're saying is true I've made a big mistake, or at the very least like my fanon a whole like better. And then I'd have to say there aren't really any Darkstalkers characters I like a whole lot. At least not in canon.

Because I sure as heck don't like Morrigan or Felicia.
 

Loop Stricken

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If you don't like blonde bimbos with bra-busting bazooka blitzkrieg breasts then you're clearly a paedophile. Where have you been?!
 

JCBFGD

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How old is Lilith? If she's younger than 16 (16 & 17 are kinda grey areas), then yeah, it makes you a paedophile, just one who hasn't fucked real little children. I'm perfectly fine with that;. If she's 18+, no, you just have an odd obsession with a character. No biggie. If it's unspecified, it's another grey area in which I have no opinion.

Also, technically, Lilith Aensland is/would be a lolicon. You are/would be just a lolicon-fan.

Oh, and lastly, this does indeed make you hypocritical. You've said "don't hypersexualise women, and don't like it!" in the past. Well, you like it, so yeah, you're now a hypocrite. You're not getting out of this because of "inb4." You argued against it, and then you take part in it. The very definition of a hypocrite. We didn't let anti-gay gay Republicans get out of their scandals without branding them as hypocrites. You've just done the same thing. And that's the biggest issue I have in your entire post, OP.
 

LilithSlave

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JCBFGD said:
You've said "don't hypersexualise women, and don't like it!"
No, I said that women are oversexualized. I didn't say that women should never be sexualized.

You are misrepresenting my positions.

And I'm well aware that anyone who takes any issue with the state of sexualization of women will get lots and lots of people misrepresenting or "stramanning" them and getting ultra-defensive. And then calling people hypocrites when they prove they're not against all sexualization of women.

I'm sick of people making a false dichotomy of sexualization where you have to celebrate the tendency to sexualization women in comparison to men, or not at all. And that it's so common as to have become ultra-predictable.
 

JCBFGD

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LilithSlave said:
JCBFGD said:
You've said "don't hypersexualise women, and don't like it!"
No, I said that women are oversexualized. I didn't say that women should never be sexualized.

You are misrepresenting my positions.
I've never actually seen you post before. I admittedly just kinda went along with what I thought you were saying. Tell me, then, do you agree with the "don't like it!" part? If you do, then that would indeed be the very definition of a hypocrite. If you don't, then I'm glad to say I was wrong.
 

LilithSlave

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Buretsu said:
It's hard to get more oversexualized, when it's a character in skin-tight clothing, featuring a cleavage hole, who is a LITERAL sex demon...
Indeed. But it's not the fact that it exists. And it doesn't get worse I think as women get more sexualized.

The problem is that women are almost always pushed into this direction in video games.

Fighting games and Darkstalers included have a problem of making female characters for sexual gratification, while not male characters. Heck, none of the guys in Darkstalkers are sexualized. Obviously appealing to a male gaze. Heck, most of the guys don't even look human. I can see a problem in video games, fighting games, and Darkstalkers included. But that doesn't mean I can't like one of the hypersexualized female characters while admitting the problem.
 

JCBFGD

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LilithSlave said:
Buretsu said:
It's hard to get more oversexualized, when it's a character in skin-tight clothing, featuring a cleavage hole, who is a LITERAL sex demon...
Indeed. But it's not the fact that it exists. And it doesn't get worse I think as women get more sexualized.

The problem is that women are almost always pushed into this direction in video games.
And that's where my whole hypocrisy argument lies. "Women in video games are too oversexualised. It's not cool. I want to have sex with this oversexualised female video game character." That is an example of hypocrisy that could go in a dictionary.

You can certainly point out it's a problem, but I don't really think you can actively try to put a stop to it, not any more, at least. Again, I go back to the anti-gay gay Republicans.
 

Loop Stricken

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JCBFGD said:
How old is Lilith? If she's younger than 16 (16 & 17 are kinda grey areas), then yeah, it makes you a paedophile, just one who hasn't fucked real little children.
No.

No? No.