Do you hate being ignored? I feel like I am losing my mind

K12

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Well screw you everyone else who commented here (and now me). You missed a really good opportunity to leave a hilariously empty thread.
 

K12

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Baffle said:
Sung-Hwan said:
they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents.
Autism is caused by a combination of wheat and MMR jabs, not genetics. I'm not sure what the balance is though, so if you don't get the jab you're gonna have to eat a shit-ton of bread.
It's only MMR in the UK. In america it's thimerosal in vaccines that cause Autism.

The important thing to remember is that vaccines are evil. The whole Chemistry Biology of why that is all negotiable, because who understands all that silly science stuff anyway!
 

Sung-Hwan

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Baffle said:
Sung-Hwan said:
they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents.
Autism is caused by a combination of wheat and MMR jabs, not genetics. I'm not sure what the balance is though, so if you don't get the jab you're gonna have to eat a shit-ton of bread.
and how are you sure of that? Most of the parents of autistic people I know or read of have some serious issues. Look at Chris Chan's for reference.
 

Lilikins

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Sung-Hwan said:
and how are you sure of that? Most of the parents of autistic people I know or read of have some serious issues. Look at Chris Chan's for reference.

I must say I find that a bit...ehh yeah. I know a family that has an autistic child. Parents are 100% normal Id say. The father is a software technician, and the mother was/is a nurse. Neither have anything wrong with themselves physically or mentally. There may be something in the genes from a time far gone, but by all means, they have none of it as far as Ive noticed up to now.
 

sky14kemea

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Sung-Hwan said:
Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.
Honestly? I think you're in the wrong.

Autism is a huge spectrum and not every case is severe enough to be debilitating. A lot of Austistic people go on to live normal lives, some even learn to manage it until it's barely noticeable. Even if they don't manage to "hide it" they still deserve the same chances as every one else.

Calling any human "less than human" for a disability they can't control is cruel and dehumanizing.
 

Sung-Hwan

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sky14kemea said:
Sung-Hwan said:
Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.
Honestly? I think you're in the wrong.

Autism is a huge spectrum and not every case is severe enough to be debilitating. A lot of Austistic people go on to live normal lives, some even learn to manage it until it's barely noticeable. Even if they don't manage to "hide it" they still deserve the same chances as every one else.

Calling any human "less than human" for a disability they can't control is cruel and dehumanizing.
I didn't specifically state autistic people are inhuman by default. Instead, I mean it's when people are forced into poor occupations like Janitor duty or fastfood employee, society begins to dehumanize and antagonize them. Hell, the very idea of a fastfood occupation is used as a traditional intimidation tactic towards teenagers or kids to get them to work harder...which leads to a lot of suicides.
 

sky14kemea

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Sung-Hwan said:
sky14kemea said:
Honestly? I think you're in the wrong.

Autism is a huge spectrum and not every case is severe enough to be debilitating. A lot of Austistic people go on to live normal lives, some even learn to manage it until it's barely noticeable. Even if they don't manage to "hide it" they still deserve the same chances as every one else.

Calling any human "less than human" for a disability they can't control is cruel and dehumanizing.
I didn't specifically state autistic people are inhuman by default. Instead, I mean it's when people are forced into poor occupations like Janitor duty or fastfood employee, society begins to dehumanize and antagonize them. Hell, the very idea of a fastfood occupation is used as a traditional intimidation tactic towards teenagers or kids to get them to work harder...which leads to a lot of suicides.
My statement still stands that calling any human "less than human" is still cruel. Those jobs are essential. If more people realised that then they wouldn't be so ridiculed in the first place. Most of the ones doing the ridiculing are people that have never even had those jobs, so they know nothing about it or the people that work in them.
 

Marble Dragon

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Sung-Hwan said:
Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.

My friend is normally very patient and understanding, but we got into an argument over whether or not autistic people should be born due to the "life" they will suffer through before being put in a minimum wage job society determines for them. My friend was appalled that I suggested they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents. He then stated regardless of the poor occupations autistic people often end up with, they're still trying to make a living and that those jobs are necessary. I told him they're less than human when placed in that role of society, and its why they're antagonized by the staff where they work at. He claimed that is dehumanizing and cruel, but I protested again. At this point he said

[1/16/15, 12:03:43 AM] ---: ok, I can't take it any more
[1/16/15, 12:05:20 AM] ---: you need professional help. I can't give you that, and you don't listen to anything I say any way. please reach out to someone in a medical field who can help you. I wish you the best.

And then just removed me as a friend and went AWOL since, despite my attempts at apologizing. But who was in the wrong here?
I won't comment on the issue itself, since I get the feeling that's not really what you're after anyway. But I may be able to give you some advice. I hang out with a lot of pretty pretentious people, the kind who are interested in talking about philosophy in their spare time. Saying that you have an "ideological difference" is really more appropriate if you're talking about just that: ideas. Crap like "What is the nature of evil?" "Is there such thing as fate?" If a friend abandoned me because of a difference in thought on either of those, it'd just be weird. But what you're talking about seems to be less abstract thought and more policy. And when innocent lives are at stake (from either point of view) you should expect some serious head-butting. "What does it mean to be alive?" is a different question from "Should abortion be legal?" if you catch my drift.

I would reach out to another friend of yours who's ignoring you. It seems likely that in his shock at your standpoint, your friend told several mutual friends about your exchange. Maybe other members of your circle don't understand what you were really trying to say. Or maybe they do, and they're just super offended by your position (which, to be fair, they have a right to be).

More OT: Yeah, being ignored is about my least favorite thing in the world. I've definitely been alienated from a group of friends before, too -- they even stopped making eye contact with me. It was more a matter of in-group politics than any sort of ideological difference, though. All I can say is that I'm really glad high school is over.
 

sanquin

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I lost 2 of my friends (and the guy I thought was a friend) in a similar fashion. It felt horrible, really. Though I eventually got over it, and learned that friends especially made in your earlier years, often don't last. You grow up, develop more distinct personalities, etc. And you just aren't compatible any more. It happens a lot, with varying degrees of anger towards each other as a result.

As for the reason behind this happening between you two. I kind of agree with your side. But it's too extreme to me. I think that people with serious/debilitating defects would be better off not being born. That being said once they are born, no matter the circumstances, they have every right to live what is considered a normal life as much as possible. And parents being aware of their child being different still have every right to decide whether to keep said child. It's not my decision what other people do in this matter after all.
 

tippy2k2

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My rules of discussing things with friends are the same as what you discuss at work:

Don't talk about religion and don't talk about politics

People become too hot-headed over their God and their views. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can discuss both without getting angry or upset but you're dancing in a mine field when you bring up those two things...
 

Sung-Hwan

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sanquin said:
I lost 2 of my friends (and the guy I thought was a friend) in a similar fashion. It felt horrible, really. Though I eventually got over it, and learned that friends especially made in your earlier years, often don't last. You grow up, develop more distinct personalities, etc. And you just aren't compatible any more. It happens a lot, with varying degrees of anger towards each other as a result.

As for the reason behind this happening between you two. I kind of agree with your side. But it's too extreme to me. I think that people with serious/debilitating defects would be better off not being born. That being said once they are born, no matter the circumstances, they have every right to live what is considered a normal life as much as possible. And parents being aware of their child being different still have every right to decide whether to keep said child. It's not my decision what other people do in this matter after all.
So do you think there's no way you can reconcile with people that aren't compatible with your way of thinking?
 

sanquin

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Sung-Hwan said:
So do you think there's no way you can reconcile with people that aren't compatible with your way of thinking?
If you -are- willing to put differences aside and focus on the friendship, but he isn't. Then unlikely. Same for if you both aren't willing. And considering how he seems to be ignoring you, I doubt he's willing to put aside such a difference.
 

Lera00

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Sung-Hwan said:
Basically here is what went down. I want to know what you guys think, like who was in the wrong.

My friend is normally very patient and understanding, but we got into an argument over whether or not autistic people should be born due to the "life" they will suffer through before being put in a minimum wage job society determines for them. My friend was appalled that I suggested they shouldn't have to suffer being born due to genetically defective parents. He then stated regardless of the poor occupations autistic people often end up with, they're still trying to make a living and that those jobs are necessary. I told him they're less than human when placed in that role of society, and its why they're antagonized by the staff where they work at. He claimed that is dehumanizing and cruel, but I protested again. At this point he said

[1/16/15, 12:03:43 AM] ---: ok, I can't take it any more
[1/16/15, 12:05:20 AM] ---: you need professional help. I can't give you that, and you don't listen to anything I say any way. please reach out to someone in a medical field who can help you. I wish you the best.

And then just removed me as a friend and went AWOL since, despite my attempts at apologizing. But who was in the wrong here?
Well, i am no expert in philosophical debates, but you got to remember that in conversations like this there's no true answer; in mathematics you know that 2+2 its equal to 4, because its that way and cant be changed, but in philosophy every answer its subjective, and totally up to the person that its interpreting it. Its an opinion! and every one has the right to have one of their own.

That being said, if you start a conversation with someone about a topic as controversial as this one, and even when both stated your arguments that person still follows a different perspective than yours; then continuing to push on the subject will only cause antagonism between both parts. I think that its just better to acknowledge the opinion of the other person.

Though i think i prefer your friend opinion overall, because stating that someone its less than human just because of a disability its a pretty strong thing to say, specially because not all people with autism have crappy jobs and miserable lives, there may be some that do, but people without any disability can also suffer from a bad situation.

Any way coming back to OT, it kinda bothers me when i get ignored, but then i just politely get away from the argument and i go talk with someone else, or just go to amuse myself for a bit
 

Soviet Heavy

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Sung-Hwan said:
but it's the fact that these jobs are only given to the failures of human society.
It also happens to be the way I'm paying my way through university, funny that, and I ain't autistic, bub.
 

cathou

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Sung-Hwan said:
but it's the fact that these jobs are only given to the failures of human society.
it's the most offencive thing i've saw you writting. Every job have it meaning, a job is a job. Saying that low paid jobs are for the failure of humanity show that you have little in common with most of the humanity. but we already know that...


i think what get your friend to leave, is not the stance you have on the subject, but the fact that you think that everyone who dont have the same stancas you is wrong, and have to be enlighted into the right path. So, it's not what you say it the way you say it.

OT : well, actually, no, i dont really like to be ignored. nobody does i think. But now that i'm older and that i get more life experience, with my carreer, the kids, my marriage... well, it get less important with time. anyway with 2 babies sometimes i would prefer to be ignored once in a while !