Do you think it is piracy to use Cheat Engine on a F2P game to get otherwise paid content?

WeepingAngels

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ecoho said:
if its a free to play single player game(never herd of one btw) I don't think its piracy but it does defiantly fall into a grey area.

my vote would be no but still a dick move I guess.
Personally I think selling a non-reusable cheat code for real money is a dick move.
 

Duster

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Legally and definitely it is, although if they only have payment organized in a EULA it may not hold up in court.

Ethically it depends on the game. I've given hundreds of dollars to companies that I regret spending a dime, and there are ones like the new EA dungeon keeper that shouldn't even exist, and I wouldn't have any concern if piracy engines for said games become a thing.

@techno squid
I view it as unethical if their stats showed they would make a profit not holding piracy as a thing. Even if the game is bad, that's just food on the table for a lot of companies.

There are some companies that are significantly worse in that aspect though, such as riot games charging 5 dollars for skins they had a single guy do in 17 minutes and making thousands on it.
 

PinkiePyro

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legal wise it isnt piracy but it is certainly illegal and a form of theft ...
why do so many people think its ok to hack ios games you are still denying money to the people who made the damn game if you like it enough to cheat then throw them a few bucks so they can feed their kids

I fully admit I play Family guy : quest for stuff and that I for one have legitly paid for my clams
 

Imperioratorex Caprae

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WeepingAngels said:
ecoho said:
if its a free to play single player game(never herd of one btw) I don't think its piracy but it does defiantly fall into a grey area.

my vote would be no but still a dick move I guess.
Personally I think selling a non-reusable cheat code for real money is a dick move.
Just the hoops you've been jumping through trying to rationalize your action makes me feel like you're doing something that is essentially wrong and illegal. Denying them money for something, even if you don't agree with the way they sell it and using a 3rd party exploit (you're using "cheat code" wrong) to gain something you'd otherwise have to buy is essentially theft.
Just because you find it a dick move doesn't mean its ok to circumvent the pay-model.
 

K-lusive

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I'm sorry to ask if the answer is already here, but can these gems be grinded for as well, or are they exclusive to IRL cash? You say it is to 'speed up a game function', which makes em believe the entire gem-thing is an optional thing (wait time reduced) as oposed to a pay-to-win-item or whatever.

In any case, seeing as it's singleplayer and Cheat engine is not the latest and greatest in l33t-haxor resources, I believe a game-creator may have been well-off to protect these gems from tampering.

My own experience with cheat engine is that it kills the fun in less than 30 minutes, making it not worth it anyway
 

WeepingAngels

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Imperioratorex Caprae said:
WeepingAngels said:
ecoho said:
if its a free to play single player game(never herd of one btw) I don't think its piracy but it does defiantly fall into a grey area.

my vote would be no but still a dick move I guess.
Personally I think selling a non-reusable cheat code for real money is a dick move.
Just the hoops you've been jumping through trying to rationalize your action makes me feel like you're doing something that is essentially wrong and illegal. Denying them money for something, even if you don't agree with the way they sell it and using a 3rd party exploit (you're using "cheat code" wrong) to gain something you'd otherwise have to buy is essentially theft.
Just because you find it a dick move doesn't mean its ok to circumvent the pay-model.
I haven't done this, I don't even play F2P games but I think it's an interesting question.
 

Czann

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Not very ethical but then the entire model of "free" games is a sham too...

I prefer to just not bother with them.
 

DementedSheep

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I don't care whether technically is or isn't (I think it still is) and I don't care whether you agree with their pay model or not. They can charge for wherever they want. If you're using and exploit to circumvent their system to get things for free that you aren't intend to get for free or that is suppose to take a long time to get without paying premium currency you are in the wrong, especially if you do it to FTP game so you haven't even paid for the base game.
 

asdfen

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doing whatever you want on your own pc on your own free time is not piracy. Its your hardware and your software and you are welcome to do whatever you will with it even if you use super mario code to build world enslaving matrix without consent of developer.

The only time its considered piracy is when you would take that free game make a trainer to work with it bundle them together and start selling that as you own product. Basically as soon as you starting to earn money/rewards for someone elses work.

Cheating isnt piracy its just cheating and multiplayer / single player / MMO doesnt factor into it.
 

laggyteabag

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I would argue that yes, it is still piracy as you are still obtaining items without paying for them, or obtaining them through legal means (ie, a prize or a gift). Whilst I would still consider it to be piracy, I would say that it is a lot less morally black than full blown software piracy as the developer was never guaranteed to receive a payment from you in the first place. It is still illegal though.
 

OneCatch

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Looks like the discussion has already moved on a fair bit, but I wanted to comment on one thing you said:
WeepingAngels said:
Why SHOULD you be paying for what is just a cheat code? Think about it this way, why should I pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can make my own that is just as good.
You aren't making your own game, you're avoiding payment on someone else's game.
It is certainly a grey area, but I think in this case a more suitable (albeit slightly tortuous) analogy would probably be "Why should I actually pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can simply give them counterfeit cash?".
 

Lunar Templar

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WeepingAngels said:
tippy2k2 said:
....that IS an interesting question.

I would argue that yes it is. Though the way to the content is different, the end result is the same; you're receiving something that you should be paying for without having to pay for it.

So technically, no, it's not. But by the spirit of the law...or.....the spirit of against the law?, it is piracy. At the end of the day, the developer is not getting money for something that they should be getting money for, therefore piracy.
Why SHOULD you be paying for what is just a cheat code? Think about it this way, why should I pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can make my own that is just as good.
... That is a terrible analogy ... especially since I'm willing to bet every one reading this CAN make a better burger then Mc Donald's.


OT; I'm a lean toward, 'Yes, it is', cause no matter how you slice it, its something they should be paying to get, that they are getting with out paying for it.
 

WeepingAngels

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OneCatch said:
Looks like the discussion has already moved on a fair bit, but I wanted to comment on one thing you said:
WeepingAngels said:
Why SHOULD you be paying for what is just a cheat code? Think about it this way, why should I pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can make my own that is just as good.
You aren't making your own game, you're avoiding payment on someone else's game.
It is certainly a grey area, but I think in this case a more suitable (albeit slightly tortuous) analogy would probably be "Why should I actually pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can simply give them counterfeit cash?".
Uh no, I am not making my own game, I am making my own cheat code. Your misunderstanding continues throughout your entire post.
 

WeepingAngels

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Lunar Templar said:
WeepingAngels said:
tippy2k2 said:
....that IS an interesting question.

I would argue that yes it is. Though the way to the content is different, the end result is the same; you're receiving something that you should be paying for without having to pay for it.

So technically, no, it's not. But by the spirit of the law...or.....the spirit of against the law?, it is piracy. At the end of the day, the developer is not getting money for something that they should be getting money for, therefore piracy.
Why SHOULD you be paying for what is just a cheat code? Think about it this way, why should I pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can make my own that is just as good.
... That is a terrible analogy ... especially since I'm willing to bet every one reading this CAN make a better burger then Mc Donald's.


OT; I'm a lean toward, 'Yes, it is', cause no matter how you slice it, its something they should be paying to get, that they are getting with out paying for it.
Since when is a cheat code something we should be paying for?

At one time we paid for a device that gave us unlimited cheat code usage but today every emulator offers a software based cheat device built in. Likewise, a tool to directly modify RAM is free but YOU believe people should be paying for one time use cheat codes.

Really getting sick of having to enter a captcha every post.
 

Lunar Templar

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WeepingAngels said:
Lunar Templar said:
WeepingAngels said:
tippy2k2 said:
....that IS an interesting question.

I would argue that yes it is. Though the way to the content is different, the end result is the same; you're receiving something that you should be paying for without having to pay for it.

So technically, no, it's not. But by the spirit of the law...or.....the spirit of against the law?, it is piracy. At the end of the day, the developer is not getting money for something that they should be getting money for, therefore piracy.
Why SHOULD you be paying for what is just a cheat code? Think about it this way, why should I pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can make my own that is just as good.
... That is a terrible analogy ... especially since I'm willing to bet every one reading this CAN make a better burger then Mc Donald's.


OT; I'm a lean toward, 'Yes, it is', cause no matter how you slice it, its something they should be paying to get, that they are getting with out paying for it.
Since when is a cheat code something we should be paying for?

At one time we paid for a device that gave us unlimited cheat code usage but today every emulator offers a software based cheat device built in. Likewise, a tool to directly modify RAM is free but YOU believe people should be paying for one time use cheat codes.

Really getting sick of having to enter a captcha every post.
Um, yes. For F2P games anyway. Those things don't just stay online on they're own ya know. As for Single player games (nice edit btw) with Micro-transaction. I would return it, or uninstall such a game, and never fucking touch it again if I actually ended up needing to hit the cash shop. So it won't be an issue for me, in any event, it's STILL something you should be paying for, and it's still a pay wall your circumventing to get something free, that isn't free.

Shady as Micro transactions in Single Player games are, Piracy is still Piracy. Be it the game, or the RM Currency the game uses. Though I have to ask why your even playing such a single player game to begin with.
 

WeepingAngels

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Lunar Templar said:
WeepingAngels said:
Lunar Templar said:
WeepingAngels said:
tippy2k2 said:
....that IS an interesting question.

I would argue that yes it is. Though the way to the content is different, the end result is the same; you're receiving something that you should be paying for without having to pay for it.

So technically, no, it's not. But by the spirit of the law...or.....the spirit of against the law?, it is piracy. At the end of the day, the developer is not getting money for something that they should be getting money for, therefore piracy.
Why SHOULD you be paying for what is just a cheat code? Think about it this way, why should I pay for a McDonalds cheeseburger if I can make my own that is just as good.
... That is a terrible analogy ... especially since I'm willing to bet every one reading this CAN make a better burger then Mc Donald's.


OT; I'm a lean toward, 'Yes, it is', cause no matter how you slice it, its something they should be paying to get, that they are getting with out paying for it.
Since when is a cheat code something we should be paying for?

At one time we paid for a device that gave us unlimited cheat code usage but today every emulator offers a software based cheat device built in. Likewise, a tool to directly modify RAM is free but YOU believe people should be paying for one time use cheat codes.

Really getting sick of having to enter a captcha every post.
Um, yes. For F2P games anyway. Those things don't just stay online on they're own ya know. As for Single player games (nice edit btw) with Micro-transaction. I would return it, or uninstall such a game, and never fucking touch it again if I actually ended up needing to hit the cash shop. So it won't be an issue for me, in any event, it's STILL something you should be paying for, and it's still a pay wall your circumventing to get something free, that isn't free.

Shady as Micro transactions in Single Player games are, Piracy is still Piracy. Be it the game, or the RM Currency the game uses. Though I have to ask why your even playing such a single player game to begin with.
As I have said numerous times in this thread, I don't play F2P games but I thought the question was interesting.

Some things are just not worth paying for and F2P games that sell single use cheat codes are a scam.

Here's an example. Last gen the Tales games offered to sell experience to the player. Prior to last gen one could just use a Gameshark to get all the experience they want and the only reason there was a market to sell an experience cheat code was because there was no Gameshark.

On the PC though, there is still cheat software available and it's foolish to pay for a cheat code just because the developer is running a scam.
 

Lunar Templar

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WeepingAngels said:
As I have said numerous times in this thread, I don't play F2P games but I thought the question was interesting.

Some things are just not worth paying for and F2P games that sell single use cheat codes are a scam.

Here's an example. Last gen the Tales games offered to sell experience to the player. Prior to last gen one could just use a Gameshark to get all the experience they want and the only reason there was a market to sell an experience cheat code was because there was no Gameshark.

On the PC though, there is still cheat software available and it's foolish to pay for a cheat code just because the developer is running a scam.
***** please .... Code Breaker was WAY better then the Game Shark was.

Joking a side, shady or not, still Piracy, and there's no real two ways about it. No matter how you try to justify it, that's what it is.

Now as to weather I think it's actually wrong to do so, well :p you didn't ask that question now did you...
 

WeepingAngels

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Lunar Templar said:
WeepingAngels said:
As I have said numerous times in this thread, I don't play F2P games but I thought the question was interesting.

Some things are just not worth paying for and F2P games that sell single use cheat codes are a scam.

Here's an example. Last gen the Tales games offered to sell experience to the player. Prior to last gen one could just use a Gameshark to get all the experience they want and the only reason there was a market to sell an experience cheat code was because there was no Gameshark.

On the PC though, there is still cheat software available and it's foolish to pay for a cheat code just because the developer is running a scam.
***** please .... Code Breaker was WAY better then the Game Shark was.

Joking a side, shady or not, still Piracy, and there's no real two ways about it. No matter how you try to justify it, that's what it is.

Now as to weather I think it's actually wrong to do so, well :p you didn't ask that question now did you...
Well, I always liked the Action Replay but they all do their job.

I still don't think it's piracy but if we are going to call it that, then selling single use cheat codes should be called theft. LOL

A captcha almost every damn post. Tell me Escapist, how many times must I prove I am human?
 

Signa

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In the spirit of F2P games, if you're getting in-game currency for free, then it's basically the same as piracy. If that cheat got widely used, then the dev would have no chance of actually making money off of their game (something I don't consider a big loss in 98% of the F2P market). I'd say it's even worse than piracy, because unlike piracy, you probably won't feel inclined to compensate the devs after you've stolen their revenue stream. At least with conventional piracy, frequently the pirate will buy the things they liked (freeloading type piracy not withstanding. Those guys aren't going to pay for anything).

From a legal standpoint, I'm sure you'd have a hard time prosecuting a person for what amounts to cheating in a phone game, and I hope it stays that way. However, if you consider yourself an upstanding person, it's critical you don't cheat at a F2P game because of what it means on a grand scale.