Do you think that the reason females aren't main characters in violent games is because...

[00Pyro]

While I'm a male (whoop de freaking doo) that doesn't change my stance on this discussion one bit. I like game like Fallout, Half-Life, and Metroid where the main character never really talks, and when they do we don't hear it. This leaves the characters personality up to us to describe and cuts down on redundantly stupid one liners. Half-Life 2, for example, Gordon Freeman never says a word and the game never actually shows his face and yet we still love him. Replace him with an anime girl with cat ears, blue hair, and a disproportionately sized body and the game would still be incredible as long as we didn't have to hear her shout "Need a medic over here!" Although I'm glad they didn't make Gordon look like that or else it'd be ruined by an alarming amount of fan art.

 

[shadow_Fox81]

i think gaming needs a jane austen(or the bronte sisters who i actually like) sure i think shes just whiny and boring but you want good female protagonists you need good female developers who make their voice heard and care about what the female will add as an artstic construct.but its hard enough for any one in games to have their name known.

plus i'm pretty sure there was alot of dead women in LA noire
dead female child in Call of cuthulu

violence against women is always disturbing though.
but do females find violence against men disturbing? (maybe its not clear i'm a guy)

as well i found Zoe Castillo an engageing female protagonist.

 

[Vault101]

uhhhhhh I get sick of thinking about this

I do think that knicking females about its somwhat taboo

as for the protagonists thing..thats simply to do with demographic

 

[Vault101]

It is pointless to specify gender if it serves no purpose, there are more male protaganists in violent video games cause most of the time it really is not that important and the male gender is more generic and easier to characterize.

if that were true then why do I bother changing my charachter to female in Fallout or play as femshep?

and whats this about "males is easyer to charachterise"? do you mean to relate to? yeah for YOU mabye

boring charachters are boring charachters regardless of gender, its best when you dont get too hung up on gender

 

[Manji187]

Most female protagonists are either total eye-candy for male gamers or "men-with-boobs". They can be independent and whatnot but most of the time they are easily interchangeable for a guy without it making any real difference. Their female characteristics, if they are present at all, are negligible.

I personally know of only two cases in which this is not the case: April Ryan and Zoe Castillo.

Apparently, Jade from BGE is also up there, but I haven't played that game so I wouldn't know.

As to the whole violence point...from an evolutionary biology/ psychology point "woman = life-bearer = worthy of protection". Survival of the species stuff. Archetypical stuff.

 

[aba1]

I have noticed that video games and movies tend to shy away from showing women being killed, especially not as violently as the men getting killed. It's a subtle form of sexism, probably descended from the belief that men should go fight in wars while women stay in the kitchen.

I always thought the opposite they did it so that they don't get flak from feminists about having women brutally killed in there games.

 

[Suicidejim]

If we're going to talk about 'violent' game specifically, then I guess it's because that's seen as a particularly masculine area of videogames (which are seen, at least by the industry and the mainstream media, as a very male-oriented activity themselves [It's like circles within circles! Or like these brackets within brackets . . .]). It's perfectly reasonable that many female gamers enjoy playing violent games, but it's not the opinions of the man (or woman, let's put some equality in our phrases here) in the street that count, but those of the industry. The same one that gave us the DOA Volleyball games. So if a female protagonist ends up in a violent games, it's usually more of a shameless attempt to get a little more sex appeal in there, like some fries to go on the side of the big, manly burger that is violence. For examples, see: Bayonetta. Also, I agree with what some others have said, that there's probably some tiny unconscious aspect that reminds us that hitting girls is BAD. As is mutilating, eviscerating, decapitating, etc.
This has actually brought up a question in my mind though: Why the link between all the violence, horror, gore and so on, and sex? It's almost always been there, but I've never understood why horror films insist on having busty teenage girls as leads (or at least some eye candy with 'potential topless scene' written all over them). Personally, I like boobs and intestines to stay as far apart as possible. Anatomically speaking, that's less than a foot, but in terms of entertainment, preferably separate films, in separate theatres. Is it just that masculinity thing? Or do entertainment industries genuinely think we were all descended from Jack the Ripper?

 

[DeManix]

Haha, but she shot a MAN in the face, and she never gets killed herself

In fact, she doesn't even get caught by the police, partially because Niko saved her ass, but who knows why else

Actually Elizabeta does get caught, the in-game news says she got 300 years of jail time, just nitpicking there, sorry

Marketability is probably a reason why there are less female protagonists in violent games. Developers will have seen the way games like Heavenly Sword didn't break even while a similar game with a male lead is now getting a sequel, even if a female lead isn't the reason for not making money, you can bet that a developer may see it like that and decide to go the 'safe' route. This is a copycat industry and you can bet what sells well will be rehashed. There have been action/adventure games with female leads, but not enough to make the concept fully marketable.

 

[Voulan]

Women depicted as more fragile and weaker has become naturalized - the "way things are." Everywhere you look, there is bound to be that ideology somewhere behind it, and unfortunately, it is extremely difficult to not conform to it somehow.

Also, I'm really looking forward to the new Tomb Raider. I'm a big fan of the series, and as well as being a female, I've always related to Lara. Saying you're a fan, though, is usually greeted with hostility because people outside of the series think she's only a sex symbol with large breasts and short shorts. So, I'm glad that this new game will (hopefully) prove otherwise - and Lara will pave the way to more realistic female characters.

EDIT:

Girls just like to see muscled men.

That's....so not true. I hate playing as generic muscle guy.

 

[krazykidd]

<spoiler=Snip>

Parasite eve
Mirrors edge
Final fantasy x-2
final fantasy xiii
Final fantasy 6 ( debatable)
Xenosaga (debatable)
Kingdom hearts (joke )

Edit: Thought of some more , Tomb raider , X-blades...Resident evil , Wet

OK, terribly sorry, but aren't most of the female characters in the games listed either wearing something revealing, skin-tight, or both? And even if they wear something more "conservative" aren't they typically just turned into sex symbols within a month of release anyway? And didn't most of those games either sell poorly or vanish into obscurity?

Wait what? how many of these games have you played exactly ? I'll atmit that X-blades and Wet have women that wear revealing clothes.I also noticed you removed some of the games that i listed because it hurts your point, also Kingdom hearts was a joke because i never pass up a chance to hate on KH. Now the only one that may have fallen into obscurity is parasite eve and debatebly Xenosaga unless your a JRPG fan .

Which leaves , Tomb raider, , mirrors edge , FF6 , FF10-2 , FF13 and resident evil. Now dismissing perverted fan art (stares at tomb raider ,) none of these women are sex symboles in their respective games, they are all Strong independant woman , that fight for what they want , taking names and kicking ass.
Laura croft
Faith
Terra
Yuna
Lightning
Clair

Are all Forces to reckon with, and aren't afraid to get ther hands dirty.

Also, the point of me listing those games , was to show that they are games with female main characters.They have been in the past since the begining of the video game developement ( theres even a Ms. Pacman for christs sake ).

Also . Aren't most male characters in video games have all brawn and no brain ? The Alpha male everyone ( supposedly) wants to be? Hell theres a shit load of games with Big armed Muscle head protagonists that fall into obscurity. So , what's your point?

Anyways this diverts WAY off course of what the thread was originally about.

Yeah, okay, maybe I should've removed KH, too, and maybe mentioning sex symbols like the crap on DeviantArt is Canon was the wrong way to put it, but my point wasn't that all of your choices had negative stereotypical tit-fodder. Rather, it was the fact that, regardless of the quality of the game, the women depicted were typically given clothing and personas to match some inherent (possibly sexual) desire in/with the men who make/play said game. I mean, look at Xenosaga. The "main" character, Shion, may not have been wearing anything too revealing (until the third game) but she was your typical "Smart with glasses" girl that Japan seems to fetishize, and her ditzyness didn't help matters. Lara, despite her strengths, has been branded a sex symbol practically since her inception, and although I don't have the numbers in front of me, haven't the bulk of her games after they tried to remove the sex symbol aspect just been...not as good, or just not sold really well? And as for Yuna...in FFX-2??? You're REALLY trying to debate a character who goes from priestess garb to a pair of short-shorts and an open-front shirt?? Who in the first five minutes of gameplay you get to watch giggling and dancing about in a frilly blue dress??? And whose only other character from the original goes through the entire game in a bikini??? NEED I GO ON?!

Now, yes, sure, there are a fair number of strong female leads out there, more than I gave credit for. But each one has had at least one moment, one outfit, one set of dialogue that was purely made for the fanboys, and it occurs FAR more often than having the male lead slip up and do something to please fangirls. It's the sad part of the world of gaming we're presently in, where even perfectly legitimate female leads have to be forced to rub their tits on the screen because the publishers/developers think we want it that way.

And as for the fact that there are just as many, if not more, alpha-male-type games that fail...well, the ratios are different. For every three or four alpha-male retard games that fail, there's at least one that succeeds, which, AFAIK, is probably a better ratio than the ratio that even intelligent, non-pandering female leads have. That's all I can say. Numbers mean everything in this current industry. If you can prove that something "has" worked before, no one cares if you can prove that something "might" work. And it's even worse if you can't provide sufficient data to support your case. Like I said, regardless of the quality of the females you list, if you can't show that the games sell well, and you can't show beyond the shadow of a doubt that those sales solely rest on the female lead's personality and journey, and NOT her heart-shaped ass and/or bouncing breast physics that people were transfixed to for half the game, then it's INCREDIBLY HARD to make more characters like her.

okay this argument i can agree with and you do make some interesting points ,so i don't want you to think im flaming you. I'll just point a couple things out on the two games you mentioned. In Xenosaga Shion , is a scientist, so the smart with glasses thing fits, shes not really combat ready , because she's in no way a soldier, so it's normal that she be clutzy and akward at some points.

And for FFX-2 , i see Yuna's change as a progression. When FFX , yuna was a priestess that was suppose to give up her life to calm Sin ( or something like that ) after meeting Tidus however Yuna changes. Her personality , her action , everything changes about her after meeting tidus ( slowly but surely) . FFX-2 ( which i hate btw ) shows a Yuna who has evolved ( not necessarily in a good way but evolved all the same ) shes not the same person she was in the begining of FFX , because of all she went through , and also the disaperance of tidus.
She has become more open to the world, more happy go lucky ( even though she misses tidus ) , more courageous ,more everything. Which shows in the way she dressed , instead of dressing like a priestess (reserved ) , she now dresses as a normal person ( well normal for the game lol ).

That asside , you do make some very interesting points .

 

[BoogieManFL]

I usually feel a little bad when I kill a female in a game, but rarely do I care much for killing another man. I *usually* avoid killing civilians in most games in any event though..

 

[SinisterGehe]

No, it's because males identify themselves more easily with other males. Gaming being predominantly a male "thing", developers cater more to them. I doubt any developer have ever said to themselves "We won't make a woman a main character in this WWII game just because women need to stay in the kitchen".

Or that they want to follow certain historical facts, this is in WWII games example. Women simply were not sent to the front lines as a fighters, at the best they stood at forward camps or even support camps as a support staff or medical staff. When we go back in history we see that women simply were not part of fighting, they might been the reason for it or been victims in the side, but they weren't part of the fighting force, I don't know if they were happy with that cultural norm or not, but it is a fact. And if we go even more back in the history to more primitive time before the time when Christianity was the major religion of Rome, women were seen a sacred objects in a sense, their place in the society might been inferior to men but they were respected for the fact that they gave birth to children and when there was higher risk of dying in birth than surviving it, there was no sense sending women to die in wars, they were too important to be sent to the slaughter house.

Now days we do not have that excuse anymore, specially when the female population is slowly starting to surpass men population (I read somewhere that the world currently is 49.9% men and 50.1% men). But your culture(s) still have leftover residue from these norms. But things are starting to change slowly, but it can not be forced (like radical feminism is trying to) but each generation has to decide it's own gender relations, who know if in future man is seen as a inferior gender or if we go back to dominating women even more, or do we achieve a social and cultural equality amongst both genders (note there is biologically only 2 genders, inters are genetic error and if you are trans. you still are either man or a woman). Also in many wars the leaders didn't want to send women to the front lines since they knew that when men seen women from their fellow tribe/town/nation killed or dead they got demoralized and often it shattered their spirit, maybe because there is some primitive instinct to protect your mate or something like that, I don't know, I am not a psychologist. But wouldn't your moral and spirit get shattered if you would have to see your female fellows (from the same society/culture/town/country) get killed in action front of you, granted it might spark a thirst for a revenge but in some point earlier or later you spirit will come crashing down.

I personally do not like seeing as main characters because they are rarely done well, why do they have to have D cups and jigling physics? Don't take me wrong I respect women and like them as characters, but I am just sick of seeing the one side of the coin always, the "pretty" side, when the fact is that there is also the other side. I like the fact that there are strong and weak female characters but often they are just made somehow wrong. Men are easy to do by male developers because, well... they are male.
I myself always choose a male character if I can since, I simply like to submerge myself to the fantasy and to the situations and since the fact of "being a women" i unknown to me.

I would be interested to see a game company run by women and in which the games are design and made by women, I wondering they fall in to the same trap as male developers fall with female characters.

The thing I want both genders to realize is that we are equal in a sense in which 3/3 = 7/7 the values are different but their sum is equal. We can not remove biological differences that separate, neither can we remove the social differences, men will always like to group up with males and women with women. What we can do is to lower the bar that separates us, but we can not remove the bars, if we would want to do that, we would need to homogenize human DNA so that there would only be a one gender and one form of a human. We must realize that men are men and women are women, we are equal in moral sense but there are million little detail that separates us to different groups.

 

[docSpitfire]

No, it's because males identify themselves more easily with other males. Gaming being predominantly a male "thing", developers cater more to them. I doubt any developer have ever said to themselves "We won't make a woman a main character in this WWII game just because women need to stay in the kitchen".

I took a class at Digipen (the school owned by nintendo near seattle) as part of their high school recruiting program (this would have been like 2004
They started the first lecture by discussing the game market and gave us the following statistic
60% of gamers are male (that's a majority but not as much as most would think)
however 90% of developers are male.

I don't think it's because males dominate the audience, but rather 9 out of 10 people designing games are male. It's easier for guys to make more believable guys and this is how you can explain games like Tomb Raider, and the females in the DOA series, because you know those ladies were designed by guys...

 

[NickKuroshi0]

I never said anything about being related to, just saying that it is much easier to put a male up in a very violent scenario for some arbitary reason than a female (i.e. God of War) plus doing it incorrectly with a girl will make it more akward and uncomfortable for some players- by the way yes I have observed this fact with several people and no it is not me.