Do you think we will be playing a Morrowind or Fallout this gen?

[Enigmatic_Apple]

From what I have seen PC gaming doesn't care too much about the WRPG anymore. The Witcher was a step in the right direction but just didn't do it for me the way these games did.

I really hope Bioshock leads more developers to copy the Deus Ex style of gameplay, I miss the rpg elements and challenge in games. Not the ability to pull off instant headshots but the ability to think. I haven't really played in a universe as funny as Fallout's or as expansive and beautiful as Morrowinds. They both nailed the politics, culture, and religons of their respective worlds so well.

Oblivion was so...hollow to me. The leveling system really broke that game for me. I mean, you can beat oblivion...the entire game, as a level 1 character. IN FACT, it would be EASIER to beat it as a level 1 character than a level 50 character.

Who made that decision? Seriously?

I digress though, do you guys think this genre is slowly dying? I am playing Mass Effect right now though and have some hope, it's enjoyable for the most part so far. Not to big a fan of the guns and shooting though.

 

[GloatingSwine]

You mean other than Fallout 3, of course?

 

[Heroic One]

I presume eventually, yes.

 

[shadow skill]

Its not dying, it's just that there are too many idiots involved. Too many noobs who probably hate reading who cannot stand the idea of a game that is actually story driven to the point where the story takes a front seat; and too many marketing fools who think that gamers don't want well crafted worlds, stories, and characters.

 

[Enigmatic_Apple]

Honestly guys, I'm 7 hours into Mass Effect and greatly recommend it. It isn't KOTOR but the writing is really enjoyable. Exploring the planets and cultures/politics/etc. is really such a nice feeling.

I'm really interested to see if between Mass Effect and Bioshock some dev with money can whip up a Planescape or Fallout.

Only time will tell. I am starting to have hope though.

 

[sumwar]

Oblivion was so...hollow to me. The leveling system really broke that game for me. I mean, you can beat oblivion...the entire game, as a level 1 character. IN FACT, it would be EASIER to beat it as a level 1 character than a level 50 character.

Who made that decision? Seriously?

THANK YOU! That and some other things ruined it for me but I felt like I was alone=/.

These types of games I imagine are really hard to make and there are only so many high quality game developing companies. For now at least we have Mass Effect.

 

[shadow skill]

The Witcher would probably go in there as well if it would stop crashing every time I try to go to the area right after the tutorial chapter....This game cost me fifty bucks and now I cannot even play it. Now I really wish my Mass Effect rental had come in today so I wouldn't have to stare at my Witcher box.

 

[Russ Pitts]

I felt the same way about Oblivion. It felt like no matter how much work I put into it, how much loot I collected and how many cool, magical items I accrued, I wasn't able to get the egde over even the most basic enemies. If I could have back the hours I spent in the open world too busy to enjoy the scenery because I was running away from bears, I'd be a happy gamer.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Oblivion's level scaling was broken. Much like Morrowind's alchemy system was broken, but far more obvious.

It reaches a tipping point at about level 20 though where all of a sudden you're pretty much unstoppable, and one hit sends most enemies flying miles through the air.

 

[Num43]

Each game has his thing, if the monsters didnt level with us we'd be saying it feels too much like FF or a MMORPG where you die from one hit untill you reach a certain level.

 

[Archaeology Hat]

Morrowind got it right leveling wise, I don't want to have to run away from wolves at level lots. Oblivion really annoyed me with the leveling because aboslutely everything leveled with you, guards, civilians, you ended up feeling like an annoyance in the world rather than a great hero.

And not being able to kill everyone was also annoying.

 

[Isthiriel]

GloatingSwine, I had the opposite problem :-/ After L25 or so the only way I could kill monsters was to repeatedly (6+ times) backstab them with my uber-enchanted (150+ magic damage/hit) daedric short sword. It made combat kind of boring really. I had more money than I could spend, no incentive to actually pick up loot (because most of it was too heavy and the sell interface pissed me off -- never mind that it was to your advantage to sell 100 arrows in lots of 1) and killing things was a matter of walking up to them and doing six power attacks then walking up to the next one

There are mods for Oblivion that fix the enemy levelling by restricting each type of enemy to a band of levels and then mixing up the levelled spawning lists so that you will see the occasional too-powerful or too-easy critter (having to run away every once in a while is a GOOD thing). A couple also fix each dungeon to a specific level, the way Morrowind did.

I have hope for Dragon Age though.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Generally all I did late on in Oblivion was walk up to stuff, do a standing power attack, and watch half the enemy's health disappear. That, of course, was until I discovered Damage Reflect. I think by the time I left my character I was more dangerous to the enemy if I just stood there and let them hit me than if I fought back.

 

[Ajar]

The problem with Oblivion's levelling system was that it was extremely easy to level quickly if you used your major skills most of the time. If your character wasn't combat-focused and you weren't gaining significant stat increases ( > +3 ) each level, your damage output could be outpaced over time by the damage output of the monsters. If your hit points weren't going up significantly due to low endurance increases, this would compound the problem.

The fix -- and this is why the levelling system is broken -- is that the skills you want to use most of the time need to be minor skills. This way you won't level up from using them, and when you do level up, you'll actually get reasonable stat increases, enabling you to keep up with the enemies. That's not how a good, intuitive skill+stat system should work -- if a skill is called "major," it should be one you aren't penalized for using a lot. Oblivion penalizes you severely for using your major skills, because then you level without getting decent stat increases. You basically need to roll your own custom class to fix what Bethesda broke.

In principle, I'm not opposed to the rest of the world levelling up. That seems more realistic to me than having the world be static and you being the only being that ever increases in power. However, I don't think some farmer should be able to get to level 30 just because I did; there's a balance to be struck there, and Bethesda missed it by a mile.

That said, I did manage to enjoy Oblivion -- and especially Shivering Isles -- despite the broken system. I made a custom class and set skills that were easy to level as my major skills, keeping the skills that I actually wanted to use as minor skills. That way I could level whenever I'd used my "minor" skills enough to get +4 or +5 stat increases, so I kept ahead of the monsters.

I though Oblivion and Shivering Isles were fun, but I'm absolutely in love with Mass Effect. The gameplay isn't perfect, but it absolutely nails that classic space opera sci-fi feel.

 

[purifiedinfire]

^ i agree about the leveling system, oblivion wasnt anywhere near as good as morrowind, but stand alone, it was still a great game.

no, i dont think well be playing them. well probably just see more usless sequals rather than remakes of classic games. it would be awesome though. we can only hope.

 

[sergeantz]

Its not dying, it's just that there are too many idiots involved. Too many noobs who probably hate reading who cannot stand the idea of a game that is actually story driven to the point where the story takes a front seat; and too many marketing fools who think that gamers don't want well crafted worlds, stories, and characters.

Just checking, did you download the patch? If you haven't, you should do so; the game will be less buggy.

 

[Ubikvitaarinen]

I doubt we'll ever get to see one of those again because players are changing with time indeed. I remember enjoying adventure games when I was a lad, but now I don't -not like I used to, anyway-. I suppose that PC gaming -and I mean adult, compelling and interesting PC gaming; not those crappy console ports we're getting to see nowadays. Oblivion I'm looking to you- is steadily disappearing whereas console gaming -and I mean easy going, absurdly told child's stories- is taking the lead in virtual entertainment.

 

[ComradeJim270]

It doesn't help that a game needs eye-popping graphics and full voice acting to be successful, now. A DVD can only hold so much... when you try and have full and interesting dialogue with lots of meaningful options, that space is quickly full just with audio files.

 

[Ubikvitaarinen]

Amen to that! This was thoroughly covered in other thread but I completely agree. If they just focused a little bit more on the game itself instead of on the looks of it... A man can dream.

 

[GloatingSwine]

It doesn't help that a game needs eye-popping graphics and full voice acting to be successful, now. A DVD can only hold so much... when you try and have full and interesting dialogue with lots of meaningful options, that space is quickly full just with audio files.

Doesn't appear to have hampered Mass Effect at all. Not an excuse.