Doctor Who and Hating Russel T. Davies

XzarTheMad

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I recently began watching the Doctor Who revived series (ninth doctor onwards) after catching a few episodes on BBC Entertainment. Recently, however, I've seen a lot of Doctor Who fans being very verbal in their hatred of one of the main writers of the new series, Russel T. Davies, and I was curious as to why this would be.

Personalyl I don't have an opinion on the man, but find that some of the stores he's written for the series to be some of my very favorite episodes: The Long Game (S1E6), Army of Ghosts/Doomsday(S2E10), Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords (S3E9). Mind you, I am very much a fan of most of the other episodes, but I am perplexed as to why people seem to hate Davies so much. Is it the franchising, like making the spinoff series Torchwood?

I have not seen any Doctor Who previous of the revival series (except for a feature length movie, but I understand that is considered non-canon), but please refrain from going on about how much better the series was before it was remade. This is mainly about why people hate Russel T. Davies.

I guess you can discuss why David Tennant is the far superior of the three post-revival doctors, though. If you'd like.
 

Togs

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I hate Russell T davies because he was terrible at his job- 2 or 3 good episodes dont make up for countless episodes of dross he made- "gridlock", "partners in crime", the whole season 4 finale.
He'd come up with these huge ideas that wouldnt possibly fit into a 50 minute episode, never leaving enough time for the suspense to build.
Also, its been said before that the recipe for doctor who is 1/4 high camp 3/4 spine chilling terror, Davies reversed that equation.

Also, out the 3 revival doctors, Tennant is far by the worst- wangsty and completely unable to do threatening.
The best was Eccleston- his doctor was all fun and games till you pushed him too hard or just pissed him off, then he'd turn into one of the scariest badass's around.

(EDIT= Another good thing about Eccleston? no goddamn wangsting, he had a proper stiff upper lip)
 

Manatee Slayer

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I generally think he is a mixed bag when it comes to results. He did make a lot of episodes overly cheesey, which is easy to do with a 'soap box' character like Doctor Who. A man who is supposidly superier to essentially every other being he meets and is usually many times more intelligent.

I much prefer Steven Moffat though, the few episodes he wrote were a lot darker, and focuses more on unusual, interesting enemies and not just the series regulars.

And yes, eccleston was a perfect doctor, one of the best, he was eccentric, quirky but a very serious actor when it was required of him. A great mix of overly large ears and a strong voice I think. :)

While we were on the subject I would like to say that I am not that fond of the latest Doctor, while he is a great actor, especially with anger than David Tennat, he is just too young for my tastes. He just doesn't give any indication of wisdom, more like an annoying know-it-all. Personal tastes I guess.
 

Sun Flash

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Apr 15, 2009
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He is hit and miss. One thing I hated especially was how he wrote the Doctor in the End of Time, part 2 especially. That said I think his good episodes outweigh the rubbish ones (Midnight... Just... Midnight, that more than makes up for half of S2).

Plus he brought it back, so no one who enjoys the new series has the right to deem him WORST WRITER EVAR!!!

Personally, I'm a fan but Steven Moffat is in a league of his own.
 

omegawyrm

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I always get really confused when I hear about this. I have not seen a single Doctor Who episode, by any writer, that I didn't like. It's just that sort of show, it's crazy, silly, continuity doesn't matter, if something dramatic can happen it's probably going to happen multiple times. Doctor Who is just the perfect embodiment of simple, joyful, and celebratory science fiction and if you get nitpicky I think you kind of ruin it's charm.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Let's see:
Cannot legitimately end an character arc except in high fantasy (See Queer as Folk as well)
Outright steals ideas, situations, plot.
Has no idea of physics or canon.
Atrocious dialogue.
Plotholes that can be spotted by 7 year olds.
Plays the enemies as blockheads that submit to his oh-so-gallant heroes.
Puts the secondary characters in the limelight and negates the main characters.
Doesn't look into the after-effects of plots.
HUGE SYMBOLIC MOMENTS THAT ARE HUGE AND SYMBOLIC.
Only known emotional impact is "OH I MISS HIM/HER"/"LETS FUCK"
Took new season 2 as a 8 episode 45 minute advert for his own programme.
And then used the ratings for Who as a crowbar into his own project.
Created one of the worst teams of two-dimensional shadows for his own "team".
Blatantly ignores reality to promote his own ideals.
Highly critical of any dissent from his own work.
Egomaniacally claims that everything in there is his own invention.
Sparkly Doctor Jesus.

Now let's take a basic episode

Gridlock: Immediate steal from Bladerunner, Irrelevant Message (and Irrelevant Scene), Fan service, Hetero couples die, non-Hetero couples survive (Lesbian, Gay, Single, Human/Cat), How do the cars stay up there, why haven't they got weapons, why haven't they tried to get out, why did Boe trap them in there, how do they eat, Introduce character/Kill Character, More fan service, Older fan service and then killed off, Steal from Minority Report/Phantom Menace, restores Status Quo without any details of their housing, food, families, where they live, what do they do after Stockholm sets in.

RTD took a show that shouldn't have been cancelled, promised to make it relevant in return for a big bag of money. Ignored what it had been and shamelessly milked the built canon for ideas. Ecclestone left as quickly as he could, Tennant's 2 episode swan song was the most bullshit I've ever seen in a show and Moffat, Ford, Gatiss (mostly), Cornell all write HUGELY better material.

Like Lucas - coming up with the idea/budget to start a show doesn't make you a God of it - better people have done better things with it, and you just fuck about trying to wring money out of it. Go home and take your ego with you.

A foul plague of a man.
 

Togs

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omegawyrm said:
Doctor Who is just the perfect embodiment of simple, joyful, and celebratory science fiction and if you get nitpicky I think you kind of ruin it's charm.
Meh I think its a matter of personal taste- to me Doctor Who was always dark, morally complex fables masquerading as soft science fiction/family entertainment.
A case in point was the lastest christmas episode- yes the Doctor saved thousands of people and saved a miser from a life of misery, but to do it he pretty much mind raped said miser, completely robbing him of free will and as it was later shown in the episode in a way pretty much emotionally tortured him as well.
 

Togs

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
*snip* Sparkly Doctor Jesus. *snip*

*snip* Gatiss (mostly) write(s) HUGELY better material. *snip*
I started clapping half way through your post, and yes sparkly doctor jesus made me nerdrage hard.
And Gatiss? I beg to disagree- man writes awesome horror but cant write Doctor Who to save his life- take Daleks in London as example, by far the weakest episode of last series.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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BrokenBoySoldier said:
And Gatiss? I beg to disagree- man writes awesome horror but cant write Doctor Who to save his life- take Daleks in London as example, by far the weakest episode of last series.
*sigh*

I'm giving Gatiss the benefit of the doubt here because there were some wonderful moments, and he IS a good writer, but he seems to have been tainted by the RTD Who. That episode promised so much - and with two episodes (RTD: "I don't think shows should have cliffhangers" - You total prat, that's what Who was BASED on) it could have been something special.

But you're right...it failed...and that makes me far sadder than people realise.

Read Lucifer Box, or watch Sherlock or The Idiot's Lantern (although ignore Maureen Lipman's ham)

Most dissapoint in Daleks of London.

You can see it as well in League of Gentlemen: Apocalypse - Stunning start, Stunning ending, but that whole "Kings of something" bit was just pure trash.
 

morganpony2

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2 words: messianic messages.

Oh look he's saved the world through prayer again. Brilliant.
Stephen Moffat writes plots.
 

omegawyrm

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OK, I guess Doctor Who gets added on to my list of things for "love it, but hate the fandom".
 

Dwarfman

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BrokenBoySoldier said:
Also, out the 3 revival doctors, Tennant is far by the worst- wangsty and completely unable to do threatening.
The best was Eccleston- his doctor was all fun and games till you pushed him too hard or just pissed him off, then he'd turn into one of the scariest badass's around.

(EDIT= Another good thing about Eccleston? no goddamn wangsting, he had a proper stiff upper lip)
Tennant wasn't that bad. He did have to deal with some patsy script writing. I do agree that Eccleston was the better of the current three acting wise. It's just a shame that he wasn't around for another season just to establish the character a bit more.
 

Dr. Paine

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Eh. I don't hate him, but like many, I simply prefer Moffat's work. Davies has many hit and miss instances, while (from all I've seen, I'm only now at the end of series 3) Moffat his been consistently great. Then there's all the other people who've written an episode, and they've all probably dropped the ball at some point or another. Hell, that kept happening in Series 3 until Human Nature, I was extremely disappointed in most of it (especially Daleks in Manhattan, that was crap.)

As for Doctors? All fantastic, and all idiots, in their own way. I prefer Tennant, but that might be because I find him more entertaining than Eccleston (don't get me wrong, he was great, just fell a little flat at times), and I have only seen one of Smith's episodes (which also happens to be the only thing based on A Christmas Carol I actually enjoyed, funnily enough). Once I've seen more, who knows?
 
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Dwarfman said:
Tennant wasn't that bad. He did have to deal with some patsy script writing.
Tennant is brilliant when he's not "The Doctor". As John Smith he was incomparable. Equally, John Simms is brilliant, but as "The Master", he descended into Pork Futures territory.

Need the script to be up to task.

And the Slitheen...oh dear god, a creature that farts? Grow up Russel.
 

Gizmo1990

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Oct 19, 2010
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OK I am a big Doctor who fan and I know many people are going to trak me down, come to my house and kill me for saying this but I have found many of Steven Moffat's episodes to be really boring. There I said it. The last episode of the last series (first series with the 11th doctor) was boring. It could have been done in about 10mins but he streched it out.

And on the subjesct of RTD he did some good episodes, many bad ones but there are two reasons I do not like him that much. First he got the time lords to come back for all of two seconds. I mean If you are going to bring them back as bad guys keep them around for a while. Secondly Every end of season episode (except for the master) had darleks. Now I like the darleks but I just wish hew would hav A: Had someone different for the ending of series 4 and B: Do not keep killing them off and then have to think of yet another way for them to come back and have the doctor have to say yet again "but thats impossible". It just maks the doctor look like an fool and not a 900 year old alien super-genius.

Also the 11th doctor is 12 years old and has no eyebrows. And I really hate that rory guy. I was glad when he died and the Steven Moffat went and made him come back from the dead. I was really pissed off. And I hate river song.

Rant over.
 

Dwarfman

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Dwarfman said:
Tennant wasn't that bad. He did have to deal with some patsy script writing.
Tennant is brilliant when he's not "The Doctor". As John Smith he was incomparable. Equally, John Simms is brilliant, but as "The Master", he descended into Pork Futures territory.

Need the script to be up to task.

And the Slitheen...oh dear god, a creature that farts? Grow up Russel.
John Simms was without doubt the worst master they've had, which is a shame cause he is good.

For some reason Davies always wanted to give things a comic edge and The Master and the Slitheen are good examples of how to ham things up! The Slitheens could have been much nastier with less fart jokes and The Master last time I looked was The Master. Not The Joker.

I enjoyed how Davies continued on The Master's deteriorating sanity and his natural skills such as mass hypnosis, but the way he did things was out of character. Everything seemed like a practical joke or an evil clown act at the sadist circus. The Master was always a maniacal, paranoid, evil genius with the stereotypical laugh; and a show pony to boot, but he always reminded me more of Prof. Moriarty.
 

Phishfood

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Personally I hated how RTD relied on some right asspulls to save the day. Season 4 finale was FULL of them.

SJ saved by mickey and co who teleport from the other universe at the perfect moment in the perfect place facing the right direction to blast two daleks? what?

Then the whole "disable every dalek" button they put on the console NEXT TO THE PRISONERS

Not to mention the number of times in the whole series where the bad guy goes away with a wave of the sonic screwdriver. Every producer in Who history tried to downplay the sonic as too much of a win button, RTD reverses that and goes "brilliant, a win button. Lets press it a lot"
 

Mr Cwtchy

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I'm gonna stick my neck out and say I loved Russells tenure as producer.

Yes, there were plotholes, as were some of the other flaws that people have oh so calmly pointed out. But you know what? I don't give a crap.

It was FUN to watch. It was FUN watching Tennant bouncing around the TARDIS, see these absolutely ridiculous monsters and oftentimes over the top acting.

I'm aware that I'm in the heavy minority on this forum, but for me that's what made the show worth watching at all. And that's evidenced by how disappointing Series 5 has been.