Doctor Who Goes To Heaven For This Two-Part Finale

Fanghawk

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Doctor Who Goes To Heaven For This Two-Part Finale

Doctor Who's "Dark Water" kicks off a two-part finale with returning villains and an uncharacteristically compassionate Doctor.

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deth2munkies

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I'm on record as saying an awesome finale is the only thing that can save this shitty season of Dr. Who.

Part 1 goes a long way to doing that, can't wait for part 2.
 

jabrwock

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There were quite a few plot holes, but usually there are when Moffat goes for the big clever reveal. Like why they bother harvesting the personalities of people who's bodies they don't possess? Unless it's just to convince the others to delete their personalities. But then that makes you wonder what their plan for Danny is, since they don't have his body to convert.

I hadn't seen the teaser about the Cybermen, so the reveal was a big "WHAAAAT" moment. My daughter saw the double doors and freaked out. I then remembered the bit about the water hiding the guy's watch, and clued in.

I had Missy pegged from whatever episode we first heard her name.
 

chaostheory

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jabrwock said:
There were quite a few plot holes, but usually there are when Moffat goes for the big clever reveal. Like why they bother harvesting the personalities of people who's bodies they don't possess? Unless it's just to convince the others to delete their personalities. But then that makes you wonder what their plan for Danny is, since they don't have his body to convert.

I hadn't seen the teaser about the Cybermen, so the reveal was a big "WHAAAAT" moment. My daughter saw the double doors and freaked out. I then remembered the bit about the water hiding the guy's watch, and clued in.

I had Missy pegged from whatever episode we first heard her name.
It sounds like they plan on using bodies from graves so they may be collecting personalties to animate those bodies.

Episode was pretty good over all and I can't wait for next weeks.
 

jabrwock

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chaostheory said:
It sounds like they plan on using bodies from graves so they may be collecting personalties to animate those bodies.

Episode was pretty good over all and I can't wait for next weeks.
Except they were encouraging people to delete their personalities, presumably to create "willing" cybermen instead of trying to force a personality delete.
 

Jeroenr

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The Last time the Doctor defeated the Master, he chose not to regenerate but to die.

So did he/she end up in the afterlife and took over the place?
Ok, Makes sense.
but then again, apparently a regeneration has taken place.
Without one the Master would have remained in his previous male form.
I have no problem in overlooking the fact that all regeneration cycles were spend, that premise has bin thrown out the window long a go.
And the Gender swab is interesting.

And i must agree, those next week trailers are way to revealing.

The little hints towards Cybermen were great.(to bad of the trailer spoiler though)
The Company logo based on Cybermen Eye's, and not forgetting the windows in the sliding doors.

Clara was very proactive up until their arrival in the afterlife, there she seems out of it.
considering her loss it makes sense, but didn't translate to tv that well.

But all things considered, a solid episode.

The doctor starts to develop quite well, or we start to know and understand him. (or probably both)
Clara less so.
 

jabrwock

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Jeroenr said:
The Last time the Doctor defeated the Master, he chose not to regenerate but to die.

So did he/she end up in the afterlife and took over the place?
Ok, Makes sense.
but then again, apparently a regeneration has taken place.
Remember he was 'ressurected' after his death (the ring), and then sent packing into the Time Lock with the other lords. So it's possible he has since escaped (and either regenerated before, during, or after the escape, maybe the regeneration was part of his/her escape plan?).
 

Fanghawk

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Jeroenr said:
jabrwock said:
Yeah, the Master was

resurrected during "The End of Time" special and went through the closing portal to Gallifrey

which was presumably the end of him until

Gallifrey was saved/freed during "Day of the Doctor".

Presumably Death in Heaven will pick up from there.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Watch the crack in time show up again as the catch all explanation for absolutely everything. It's a space prison! It's a memory of the doctor! It's a portal to Gallifrey!
 

gorfias

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One Doctor faced Satan. The existence of Satan is arguably evidence of G-d and an afterlife. You could say that this isn't really Satan but something more complicated.

Well, yeah. Doctor who is complicated.

 

sweetylnumb

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Soo....with this whole "can the doctor regenerate as a women" thing proven to be a possibility, does that mean we might plausibly get a female doctor sometime in the future?


:D
 

Alpha Maeko

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Apr 14, 2010
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I'm not sure I like the Master getting thrown back in at random, but I do kinda like where it's all going. Sort of. Maybe. I don't know.

BAH! HUMBUG!
 

Folji

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Every time a phone call has shown up in this season. Eeevery tiiiiiime. Peter Capaldi might just be my favourite doctor from the new series, though!
 

Canadamus Prime

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Fanghawk said:
Before we begin the recap proper, allow me to express my frustration that BBC thinks it's a great idea to give away Doctor Who spoilers in teasers and trailers. "Dark Water" is clearly meant to be a mystery episode, where the Doctor and Clara finally piece together the secret behind the afterlife we've glimpsed throughout the entire season. But if you happened to see last week's "Next Time" teaser, then you already know the big reveal: Heaven is tied to some kind of Cyberman plot. So halfway through this cleverly structured episode where someone worked very, very hard to hide Cyberman references in plain sight, you've already pieced together how events will unfold. (This isn't a new problem, by the way: Doctor Who did the exact same thing just before the Ninth Doctor's finale.)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was annoyed by this. I said they should've left the cybermen out of all the trailers and promo material. That way the big reveal would've had a bigger impact.

Anyway, this was quite an emotional episode and a great start to the finale, spoiled reveal notwithstanding. I've mentioned before that I never liked Danny Pink, but I was actually kinda sad when he died. ...ish. And Missy's true identity, I did NOT see that coming. Of all the people it could've been, I didn't expect The Master.
 

Soulrender95

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I have many issues with this episodes twist, I don't think it works personally.

The episode itself is ok though the biggest problem with Danny being dead even temporarily is that it should cause a paradox because the Tardis contained his identical descendant at one point, though it could be suggested that Clara is pregnant (what a terribly convenient twist that would be >_<) but because there is no paradox the simplest explanation is Danny is resurrected at the end, meaning it destroys any narrative tension that the Doctor might have to sacrifice people to stop the Cybermen.

As for the Master/Missy going to be honest it feels like a re-write/re-shoot after Moffet heard the speculation, because it just doesn't work.
The Master willingly chose to attack Rassilon in "end of time", the Doctor did not abandon him to die as Missy claims. now lets consider who he attacked, Rassilon, the guy who founded the time lords and in scales of villainy makes the Master look like a scooby doo villain, so even if the Master managed to somehow stop Rassilon (and there's no way he'd willingly cap his own regenerations), no one would be stupid enough to help fix the Master and defy Rassilon (except the Doctor), then on top of that the Master would need help from other time lords to gain more regenerations (he obviously needed more or he would have regenerated to fix his broken self in end of time) and again the time lords would have to be super incompetent to give the guy a third chance considering the last time they fixed him, he abandoned them to die and ran away to the ends of time.

and that's without even explaining how he got back from Galifrey, his or her alliance with the Cybermen is about the only thing that makes sense considering the Daleks hate him more than they hate the Doctor.

personally had I been writing it I'd have gone for Missy being Miss.Clever (Mister Clever 2.0), it makes more sense and we wouldn't have to worry about the Doctor not sensing the other time lord (remember last time it was because the Master made himself human) if it was just a variation of himself.
 

karkashan

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My crack theory for the next episode is that Clara is revealed as a younger version of the Gomez!Master.

praisegrima
 

Roganzar

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The reveal of Missy was quite good and I've always been one to believe that Time Lords could regenerate as male or female, depending on whims. Hell they can try on different bodies during a regeneration, and pick the body they want. Death of the Daleks had Romana doing it.
I was kind of hoping that Missy was a different Time Lady. Really wanted her to be the Rani or a very pissed off Romana.
 

THM

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Roganzar said:
I was kind of hoping that Missy was a different Time Lady. Really wanted her to be the Rani
This. Absolutely this. The Master (well, Mistress) using the Cybermen to create an army (though what for) does make sense, but the Rani using them for some sort of experiment would've been even creepier - she wouldn't be doing it to be evil, she just wouldn't care about the 'raw materials' at all. I have to admit, though, I did not see that one coming.

On the episode as a whole, I agree that the next time preview did ruin a big surprise, but to be honest, by the time I got to the reveal (which for me was the double door closing) I'd kinda put the preview to one side. I remembered the preview after that, but the shock actually worked.

So roll on part 2; here's hoping it lives up to its promise.

- THM
 

totheendofsin

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Jul 31, 2009
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sweetylnumb said:
Soo....with this whole "can the doctor regenerate as a women" thing proven to be a possibility, does that mean we might plausibly get a female doctor sometime in the future?


:D
I remember reading something, I think it was a BBC executive saying they think the Doctor after Capaldi leaves should be a woman

I feel like the Master regenerating into a woman is intended to gauge fan reaction to the idea, if the fans don't respond well (which from what I can tell looking around various forums they are responding very well) they can just retcon it out
 

Punkster

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I saw that horrible twist coming, I kept waiting to be surprised but nope... There it was.

As for the episode itself, it wasn't the worse thing Moffat has written (I still remember Asylum of the Daleks) but it wasn't great either.

Also sorry to nitpick, but wasn't it shown that there is no after life and that it is in fact the Cybermen that are tricking people into thinking that they are dead?

I'm not sure really, I've already forgotten most of the episode and really can't be bothered watching any more, I will, but I just can't be bothered with it. The series is not even finished and I am still feeling little love for Doctor Who these days. If it wasn't for Peter Capaldi, then I would've stopped watching ages ago.

Thankfully I didn't stop watching or I would've missed some great stuff (yes there was some) and if there is any positives to take away from this series 8, then it is these things... Peter Capaldi as the Doctor and Jamie Mathieson's two great stories of Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatline.
The jelly babies in the cigarette case and The Doctor arguing with himself while doing an impression of Tom Baker's Doctor (Both from Mummy on the Orient Express) were just great television in my opinion.

I just hope the finale and the Xmas episodes are both good but seeing as they are Steven Moffat's scripts, I don't hold out much hope sadly.

Sorry Steven Moffat, I liked you but your time has come to regenerate into somebody else. You need to go before the show completely burns out and gets cancelled for another 16 years.