Doctor Who: How do you transition from David Tenant to Matt Smith?

[DudeistBelieve]

The transition from one Doctor to thenext is supposed to be jarring, otherwise there wouldn't be any point to changing to Doctor at all. He changes physically as well as mentally so his personality can have noticable differences, even if he is fundamentally the same guy underneath.

I've actually come to think that maybe 10 was overrated, almost everyone says he is the best even though he had to put up with the abomination that was Donna and the whole End of Time storyline. Seriously, the Timelords are coming back oh no! They show up for ten minutes then bugger off having done pretty much nothing except have a chat. And The Master can shoot lightning from his hands? Ok... I'm suprised The Doctor didn't have to go Super Saiyan to win that fight. And I never liked any of 10's assistants/companions, some of the episodes weren't very good and his run ended on a low point on the quality scale. Whilst The Doctor himself was decent, everything else was kind of 'meh'.

I personally disliked 11 to begin with, but over his first series I came to like him more. Plus he has a green sonic screwdriver. Green sonic screwdrivers are cool. The current series is going well except for the 'Dinosaurs on a spaceship' episode, which was a bit crap. 11 had better writing, not that everything was perfect mind you. River Song got a bit too regular, she started as a total mystery and now we know pretty much everything about her relationship with The Doctor. I guess we've probably seen the back of her as a regular character now, which is probably a good thing.

Look, I consider 9-10 to be the same character. 9 was a bitter war vet, 10 was 9 after being helped out of his dark angry pit. I wanted 11 to be just a new version of the same character... Instead he's literally a brand new doctor, and that's kind of annoying after I spent so much time bonding with 9/10. And I get he's suppose to be new, that's what breaths new life into the series but would it be to much to have just a little continuity? Just a little something to anchor him so as not to feel the writers are saying "OKAY! FUCK ALL THE OLD CRAP! EVERYTHING NEW IS BETTER! WE GOT THE FUCKING DALEKS, THEYRE TEN FEET TALL, THEY GOT SHINY NEW PAINT JOBS! AND YER GONNA LIKE IT!"

I'm warming up to 11, it's just annoying because I really really liked the first 4 seasons.

 

[Phasmal]

Ugh.... I just got to the episode where they upgrade the daleks.

Seriously? Taller and bright new colors? Are they fucking George Foreman Grills now? The Daleks were already unstoppable killing machines, they didn't need an upgrade let alone one that made them STYLISH! How are these ones any better? Because the eyestalks are a bit different? Because their voice isn't the iconic screetch anymore?

I remember seeing the episode with the upgraded daleks and me and my boyfriend kind of looked at each other like `Okay so they are Power Rangers now?`.

I like 11... sort of. I don't think Matt Smith is attractive and he certainly doesn't have the lady following 10 had, which kind of makes it stand out to me that I reeeally freaking wish they would stop recycling the `everyone wants to bone the Doctor` thing. But nooo....

God I miss Donna, I know a lot of people didn't like her, but she just wanted to see the universe, not sit around adoring the Doctor.

Still, once you adjust to 11 you sort of get used to it.

 

[Something Amyss]

God I miss Donna, I know a lot of people didn't like her, but she just wanted to see the universe, not sit around adoring the Doctor.

That's WHY people didn't like her. Instead of being another testament to the awesomeness of the Doctor, she was a (admittedly self-absorbed) person with a real character arc.

Okay, maybe that's not why, but it always seems that way.

Look, I consider 9-10 to be the same character. 9 was a bitter war vet, 10 was 9 after being helped out of his dark angry pit. I wanted 11 to be just a new version of the same character...

Understand that if fans thought like that, we'd never have the 9th Doctor in the first place. Or the Fourth. They would have all ragequit at the second Doctor and the show would be considered a complete failure. Smith's Doctor isn't all that much different from previous iterations. In fact, I'd say there's less difference between 11 and 10 than 9 and 10.

but would it be to much to have just a little continuity?

I remember when "Rose" came out and those same complaints were made. Still, lack of continuity? We have a main character turned into an Auton. We see the return of River Song and the Angels (which are admittedly Moffat's creations but predate his run as head writer). We see Sontarans and Cybermen (I think the Cybermen here are even the CYBUS version from RTD's run on the show).

I don't think you mean "continuity" here. Especially since you mention the Dalek upgrades. Again, for the record, not the first time they've been upgraded.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Ugh.... I just got to the episode where they upgrade the daleks.

Seriously? Taller and bright new colors? Are they fucking George Foreman Grills now? The Daleks were already unstoppable killing machines, they didn't need an upgrade let alone one that made them STYLISH! How are these ones any better? Because the eyestalks are a bit different? Because their voice isn't the iconic screetch anymore?

I remember seeing the episode with the upgraded daleks and me and my boyfriend kind of looked at each other like `Okay so they are Power Rangers now?`.

I like 11... sort of. I don't think Matt Smith is attractive and he certainly doesn't have the lady following 10 had, which kind of makes it stand out to me that I reeeally freaking wish they would stop recycling the `everyone wants to bone the Doctor` thing. But nooo....

God I miss Donna, I know a lot of people didn't like her, but she just wanted to see the universe, not sit around adoring the Doctor.

Still, once you adjust to 11 you sort of get used to it.

I thought the same freaking thing! It's the cult again only now they're power rangers.... actually that would of been so bad I would of dug that, Evil Power Ranger Daleks that go around hunting the doctor.

Donna was my favorite so far, just because of her vocal attitude. Then they fuse and Human-10 gets her personality traits..... God I was so annoyed they had her mind-wiped. Completely undos her entire character arch.

 

[ellers07]

I've got to give some support to Matt Smith here. I didn't think I was going to like him as I was getting attached to Tennant. I really didn't think there was any way he could even begin to fill those shoes and I began Smith's first episode with hesitance. As luck would have it, he quickly became my favorite Doctor. His first season was by far my favorite and I thought it brought new life to the series. Now I can't imagine how they'll replace Matt Smith.

My only nitpick would be his sonic screwdriver. It seems a little big and bulky and borderline lightsaber like.

 

[The_Echo]

Smith's Doctor is unfortunately juvenile. I think in the New Who, we see a degradation of the Doctor's character. (I'll disregard Old Who as I still haven't gotten past the First Doctor.) Eccleston and Tennant play like two sides of the same coin (a seriousness/goofiness dichotomy that is flipped in proportion between them). But Smith is played kind of like a teenager.

Smarmy, spiteful know-it-all type. I don't like the 11th, I don't like his companions (I mean, Rory is OK. But River can just fuck off already), I don't like the stories. I've been waiting for him to shove off since his first episode.

Can I also just say, that I think the new TARDIS looks awful? I'm OK with the screwdriver's redesign. But the TARDIS is just gross.

 

[deth2munkies]

So I'm gonna be honest, watched the first season pretty much entirely on the Sci-Fi channel, bits and pieces of Tennant's stuff, then got Netflix and watched 5-6 before going back and watching the rest of the seasons.

Gonna be honest, I like Smith a helluva lot better than Tennant. They went pretty damn grimdark with a lot of Tennant's stuff, and I think that was in response to the era of the mid-late 2000s all about grittyness and stuff with The Dark Knight and all that. I was happy to see it turn a bit more lighthearted while still having tension and focus on the characters.

I personally didn't really like Martha or Donna at all. Rose was great, Amy and Rory are great, and I think a lot of it has to do with the relationship dynamics between them and people OTHER than The Doctor. Jackie and Micky for the former, and each other for the latter case. Martha and Donna both had families that got stuck in the middle, but that's pretty much all they ever did (with the one exception being The End of Time, but Donna as a character was hardly relevant to the plot).

The Doctor himself changed a lot during this regeneration too. As I said, it got a lot more lighthearted. Recall that when Tennant first regenerated, almost the first thing he did was kill a guy in a duel. He also got angry nearly every episode at something. Smith on the other hand experiences his first genuine moment of anger (not just frustration) halfway through Season 6. I won't deny it's a huge leap, but I enjoy a protagonist who has to deal with all of the same terrible stuff while maintaining a smiling face, rather than letting it seep out as often as Tennant's did.

It is worthy to note, however, that the creators are entirely aware my opinion is in the minority, and the entire storyline of The Doctor in 5-6 is that he's riding on the coattails of his previous accomplishments, and that's what's bringing him down. Rather than the Time War or the Daleks and their relationship to his past, it's the things he's done more recently that are under the microscope.

 

[HellbirdIV]

He had been outwardly DREADING his inevitable fate. He finally goes ahead and save the world again, beats the bad guys and unlike all the other times he did it with the fear in the back of his mind that he'd hear those 4 knocks and be killed, and he wasn't thinking regeneration mind you, he was thinking straight up dead. They leave and for one precious second he thinks he's beaten the per-destination, and he's overjoyed...

Knock. Knock. Knock. Knock. God damn it Wilf!!!!

Seriously? His anger, frustration isn't validated in that moment?

Not to me, because above all else - He's The Doctor. Capital T, capital D, two hearts, each one full to bursting with love for life - not his own, but everyone elses.

Do you even remember how Ten came in? Exactly the same way. Nine threw everything away to save just one measly, useless human life, and in his final moments he was happy - because whatever little difference he can make, he sure as hell makes it.

Ten goes out like a pathetic weiner in comparison, and it's frankly kinda shameful. He isn't losing more than any of the previous incarnations, so why this sudden angst? Life is too short to complain, Doctor, even if do get twelve of them!

ALLONZ-Y!

 

[Tanis]

Pretty much... yes. Smith's Doctor suffers from the same thing that Davison's (#5) Doctor suffered from, trying to fill impossibly large shoes left by their preceding Doctor, Tennant and Baker respectively.

First post, and s/he gets it.

OT:
I guess, for NuWho fans, it's a bit of a shock, but for us ClassicWho fans, it's normal.


Tenant was a GREAT Doctor, don't get me wrong, but Smith has done a DAMN FINE job as well.

Just stop thinking so hard and enjoy the ride.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

So I finished Season 4, and just watched Episode 1 of Season 5.

I'm not one for the "They changed it, so it sucks" argument but Jesus fucking Christ. So much change, it's like they rebooted the entire series. New Doctor, new tarted up companion, new TARDIS, new sonic fucking screw driver? Did everything from the first 4 seasons have to be kicked to the curb?

Yes

Maybe I didn't mind the transition from the 9th to the 10th, because when 9 goes he leaves at relative peace with what's he's accomplished. He's in a coma when he comes back and his regeneration is treated as such a big deal, and he comes back and it's a natural arch for the character. He went from being angsty and rage-filled back to being lighthearted and filled with compassion. It felt like the character grew in that short amount of time, but still maintaining some elements of 9 ("No second chances, I'm that kind of a man.")

Ah, the moment of promise before all hope was dashed

But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die!

And it's disgusting. That wasn't the Doctor crying, that was that awful shitheel Davies, crying that he was losing his show. The End of Time was stupid in concept, and then the ending made it downright reprehensible. He made the Doctor a coward. "I don't wanna go!" Bullshit. He's not fucking going anywhere. He's taking a god damned powernap and waking up with a different fashion sense. The ONLY reason he's so scared and weeping like a little baby is because that's what poor little Russel was doing. He brought the show BACK, that made it HIS, how dare they take it away from him! And then he actively tried to KILL the show. Just so no one else could helm it. He just wanted to take his ball and go home. FUCK that ending [/quote] His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic, we see his frustration. We see him say his goodbyes. Then he dies.[/quote] he sees an old man who'll be dead in a few years anyway trapped in a glass box that, apart from the set being stupidly designed (look at the gaps in the door, how is that sealed?) the doctor should have been able to open EASILY. It's also a stupid design in the first place, having the "one door's always locked" thing. And, since we see it EMPTY, well, damn, i guess there IS a way to open the door with no one in it. Then, the doctor dies. From radiation. The same radiation he just ATE in his first season. the whole thing is stupid.

Then BAM! Regeneration. "Still not ginger", number 11 moves on with his fucking life with out so much a glance at his past or any of the deep feelings he's had in the past couple of hours.

The first valid complaint. The fact that he does pop up immediately does go against previous depictions of the regeneration. But I don't care, because Matt Smith is so much better than Eccleston or Tenant.

Someone tell me, does it stay like this? Does 11 just exist in his own little bubble world from here on out?

By god, yes it does. Matt Smith brought a return to what Dr Who SHOULD be, not Russel T. Davies and his personal mary sue fanfiction. They acknowledge the old stuff existed, and that's it. It's in the past. There are new adventures to explore. Granted, it's not perfect. Moffat has some problems in the beginning, and the overarching plot can be a titch silly. He wants loves River like Davies loved Rose, and she keeps DOING things, but at least she isn't shoved down our throats.

Moffat saved Dr. Who. Matt Smith is much, much better as the Doctor, Amy and Rory are excellent companions (and Amy's romantic fascination with the Doctor is better, since it stems from childhood, and not from her being a slutty *****. Amy's also called out when she does wrong, unlike Rose), the awful episodes are rare, and the excellent ones are more common.
Just keep watching, get used to Smith, and realize the truth in these statements.

Also, try checking out old Who, to see WHY series fans such as my self have such seething hatred for Davies' treatment of the show.

 

[artanis_neravar]

So I finished Season 4, and just watched Episode 1 of Season 5.

I'm not one for the "They changed it, so it sucks" argument but Jesus fucking Christ. So much change, it's like they rebooted the entire series. New Doctor, new tarted up companion, new TARDIS, new sonic fucking screw driver? Did everything from the first 4 seasons have to be kicked to the curb?

Maybe I didn't mind the transition from the 9th to the 10th, because when 9 goes he leaves at relative peace with what's he's accomplished. He's in a coma when he comes back and his regeneration is treated as such a big deal, and he comes back and it's a natural arch for the character. He went from being angsty and rage-filled back to being lighthearted and filled with compassion. It felt like the character grew in that short amount of time, but still maintaining some elements of 9 ("No second chances, I'm that kind of a man.")

But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die! His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic, we see his frustration. We see him say his goodbyes. Then he dies.

Then BAM! Regeneration. "Still not ginger", number 11 moves on with his fucking life with out so much a glance at his past or any of the deep feelings he's had in the past couple of hours.

Someone tell me, does it stay like this? Does 11 just exist in his own little bubble world from here on out?

Personality, Tardis, and Sonic Screwdriver change with every regeneration. And each regeneration is like a new stage in life. The 9th doctor was brooding and still blaming himself for killing the other Time Lords, the 10th Doctor had started to get over it but was still prone to flashes of anger, and the 11th doctor has completely (atleast mostly) gotten over it and accepted the past. Also the newest companion is amazing, the best out of all of them in my opinion (the one after Amy)

 

[artanis_neravar]

Moffat saved Dr. Who. Matt Smith is much, much better as the Doctor, Amy and Rory are excellent companions (and Amy's romantic fascination with the Doctor is better, since it stems from childhood, and not from her being a slutty *****. Amy's also called out when she does wrong, unlike Rose), the awful episodes are rare, and the excellent ones are more common.

I must say Amy was one of my favorite companions. I absolutely hated Donna and everything she was, Rose got very annoying, but was still better than Donna and Martha was just forgettable. Amy leaving was also one of the saddest episodes in a long time, same with the latest Christmas special (I also like Clara so far probably even more than Amy)

 

[Rylot]

Man Dr Who is one of those shows that can be so divisive. Different things appeal to different people and no one can agree on anything. As for me I definitely like Tennant More but a lot of that has to do with Moffat's writing. The Doctor can change, the internal consistency of the show shouldn't change every other episode.

 

[Zombie Sodomy]

But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die! His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic, we see his frustration. We see him say his goodbyes. Then he dies.

Then BAM! Regeneration. "Still not ginger", number 11 moves on with his fucking life with out so much a glance at his past or any of the deep feelings he's had in the past couple of hours.

Someone tell me, does it stay like this? Does 11 just exist in his own little bubble world from here on out?

For me, the new doctor's nonchalance was a brutal but effective reminder of what regeneration really is. Before that episode I was like, "well for the most part he can't really die so there isn't too much danger." but that sudden shift really shoved in my face that the doctor really dies every time it happens. It really was fucking heartbreaking. That being said, I love the new doctor. He's funny at times, but you really see the effect of all the loss that the doctor has to suffer through to be who he is. The Doctor may be one of the most tragic and lovable characters out there right now.

Edit: Does anyone know when it's coming back? I'm getting the shakes over here.

 

[Therumancer]

So I finished Season 4, and just watched Episode 1 of Season 5.

I'm not one for the "They changed it, so it sucks" argument but Jesus fucking Christ. So much change, it's like they rebooted the entire series. New Doctor, new tarted up companion, new TARDIS, new sonic fucking screw driver? Did everything from the first 4 seasons have to be kicked to the curb?

Maybe I didn't mind the transition from the 9th to the 10th, because when 9 goes he leaves at relative peace with what's he's accomplished. He's in a coma when he comes back and his regeneration is treated as such a big deal, and he comes back and it's a natural arch for the character. He went from being angsty and rage-filled back to being lighthearted and filled with compassion. It felt like the character grew in that short amount of time, but still maintaining some elements of 9 ("No second chances, I'm that kind of a man.")

But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die! His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic, we see his frustration. We see him say his goodbyes. Then he dies.

Then BAM! Regeneration. "Still not ginger", number 11 moves on with his fucking life with out so much a glance at his past or any of the deep feelings he's had in the past couple of hours.

Someone tell me, does it stay like this? Does 11 just exist in his own little bubble world from here on out?

If you want a show with internal consistency you watching the wrong program. Th Doctor's character has always changed radically with each regeneration. The first regeneration I remember was from Tom Baker to Peter Davidson. Tom's Doctor was larger than life and pretty much insane whereas Davidson's Dr was quite and wistful. Colin Baker's Dr was shouty and angry, Sylvester Mccoy's was slightly menacing and the rest you have seen. Fundamentally with each new Dr it's new character that bears no relation to the previous one. The writers have always felt free to ignore previous lore and change the rules to what suits them dramatically as to what the Dr can and can't do. The fact that the show isn't internal consistent is why its going to have its 50th birthday this year.

Aug.... it is my fault being a Doctor Who newbie.

Kills me though, such a jarring tone from End Of Time to The Eleventh Hour.

To be entirely fair a lot of people feel the same way about the departure of Tennant from the role, but no Doctor is forever. He's pretty much the defining Doctor of this generation, and chances are we won't see another one as good until the show's current revival ends, and then we see another relaunch of it later on down the road.

That said I think one of the problems has been that in the modern Doctor Who we've seen some attempts to be consistant and do some real, lasing, world and character building, only to see it shattered. It can be argued (as your other responder pointed out) that this was never the idea behind Doctor Who, *BUT* I tend to agree that once they started doing it they should have continued to acknowlege it, I think the problem is they are trying to have it both ways, and it really doesn't work, the jarring impact of the way they did this really hitting the entire current fandom, "old school" fans who were here before the modern version are less bothered of course since, as was pointed out, it's happened before.

 

[Woodsey]

You're watching a program that can't even obey its own rules within a single episode. I wouldn't bother even hoping for any notion of consistency.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

So I finished Season 4, and just watched Episode 1 of Season 5.

I'm not one for the "They changed it, so it sucks" argument but Jesus fucking Christ. So much change, it's like they rebooted the entire series. New Doctor, new tarted up companion, new TARDIS, new sonic fucking screw driver? Did everything from the first 4 seasons have to be kicked to the curb?

Yes

Maybe I didn't mind the transition from the 9th to the 10th, because when 9 goes he leaves at relative peace with what's he's accomplished. He's in a coma when he comes back and his regeneration is treated as such a big deal, and he comes back and it's a natural arch for the character. He went from being angsty and rage-filled back to being lighthearted and filled with compassion. It felt like the character grew in that short amount of time, but still maintaining some elements of 9 ("No second chances, I'm that kind of a man.")

Ah, the moment of promise before all hope was dashed

But when 10 dies.... It's ssssoooooooooooooo fucking heartbreaking. He reacts so human, he doesn't want to die!

And it's disgusting. That wasn't the Doctor crying, that was that awful shitheel Davies, crying that he was losing his show. The End of Time was stupid in concept, and then the ending made it downright reprehensible. He made the Doctor a coward. "I don't wanna go!" Bullshit. He's not fucking going anywhere. He's taking a god damned powernap and waking up with a different fashion sense. The ONLY reason he's so scared and weeping like a little baby is because that's what poor little Russel was doing. He brought the show BACK, that made it HIS, how dare they take it away from him! And then he actively tried to KILL the show. Just so no one else could helm it. He just wanted to take his ball and go home. FUCK that ending

His reaction to Donna's father being trapped in the box is so beautifully tragic, we see his frustration. We see him say his goodbyes. Then he dies.[/quote] he sees an old man who'll be dead in a few years anyway trapped in a glass box that, apart from the set being stupidly designed (look at the gaps in the door, how is that sealed?) the doctor should have been able to open EASILY. It's also a stupid design in the first place, having the "one door's always locked" thing. And, since we see it EMPTY, well, damn, i guess there IS a way to open the door with no one in it. Then, the doctor dies. From radiation. The same radiation he just ATE in his first season. the whole thing is stupid.

Then BAM! Regeneration. "Still not ginger", number 11 moves on with his fucking life with out so much a glance at his past or any of the deep feelings he's had in the past couple of hours.

The first valid complaint. The fact that he does pop up immediately does go against previous depictions of the regeneration. But I don't care, because Matt Smith is so much better than Eccleston or Tenant.

Someone tell me, does it stay like this? Does 11 just exist in his own little bubble world from here on out?

By god, yes it does. Matt Smith brought a return to what Dr Who SHOULD be, not Russel T. Davies and his personal mary sue fanfiction. They acknowledge the old stuff existed, and that's it. It's in the past. There are new adventures to explore. Granted, it's not perfect. Moffat has some problems in the beginning, and the overarching plot can be a titch silly. He wants loves River like Davies loved Rose, and she keeps DOING things, but at least she isn't shoved down our throats.

Moffat saved Dr. Who. Matt Smith is much, much better as the Doctor, Amy and Rory are excellent companions (and Amy's romantic fascination with the Doctor is better, since it stems from childhood, and not from her being a slutty *****. Amy's also called out when she does wrong, unlike Rose), the awful episodes are rare, and the excellent ones are more common.
Just keep watching, get used to Smith, and realize the truth in these statements.

Also, try checking out old Who, to see WHY series fans such as my self have such seething hatred for Davies' treatment of the show.[/quote]

How the hell is Rose in any shape was a slut? Because she leaves Mickey for The Doctor? Oh boo fucking hoo, Mickey was a wimp at the start of the series and walks out of the Tardis box in 4 a fucking man. Christ sake, Captain Jack is the whore of the series if there ever was one. Christ, Pond herself was working as a fucking kiss-a-gram, not the same thing but still.

Yeah they acknowledge the old stuff... Like Flesh and Stone I just watched, they acknowledge it by saying the shit got retconned out of existence. So greeeaaat, I wonder what other stories from the first four I'll find out never actually happened. Gee if the events of Journey's have been re-written thanks to Pond's Crack, did Rose even get her happy ending? Did any of the characters? Or was it all just washed away?

I will get around to watching the orignal episodes, but I want to wait until I'm caught up with the current series and I can watch those while I wait for the new ones to come out. I care very very little for what Doctor Who is "suppose to be", I watched this show on a whim and I enjoyed the fuck out of it. Motherfuck any of the background writers noise, the Doctor is a fucking coward because he didn't want to regenerate? No, sticking with the fucking character he made it pretty clear he liked his current incarnation and didn't want to change. The Regeneration clearly is like a death because one doctor exits and new one enters, same memories but a different man!

And people have brought up, well the Doctor has face certain death before.... well over the course of these four seasons I watched, yeah he did, but not really. Doc's like Batman, even if he's entering a losing scenario you can be damn sure he's still planning, still looking for an exit to win. End of Time, stupid as the premise was (Yeah, I'll give that. Master suddenly has super powers? Time Lords.... Just the time lords), he assumed he was entering a FIXED POINT, that no matter what his fate could not be unwritten... And he agonized over this as well, because he didn't even know what death they meant! For all he knew he could of very well died and not regenerate at all, wouldn't that suck! Mind you, he just the previous episode before tried to undo an event and it backfired horribly on him (The mars episode)

And again, what happens? He wins and he is soooooo fucking relieved. That rooting tooting son of a *****, he found a way to cheat death again!

knock knock knock knock

Nope. He still has to die, and it turns out it wasn't a fixed point at all. He could of walked away, and no one give me that crap that "if he walked away he wouldn't of been The Doctor", yeah to us! The audience, maybe, he would of been a coward but in his comfy little universe there? Nope. Still the Doctor. So now he's realizing this situation, his death, the death he's AGONIZED over for episode after episode, expecting to be forcibly exited in a blaze of glory by some great enemy or some great sacrifice to save the world.

No. He finds out he dies, by choice, to save Wilf.

The character, ignore the writing bullshit because I never gave a damn, The Character 10 is a fucking coward for visibly showing his frustration? He mother fucking made the heroic sacrifice, didn't he? One that under any other normal circumstance he would of just did, but only reacted because he'd been agonizing over it?

And as for the "I don't want to go." Maybe you're right. 9/10 weren't a real Doctor, because those Doctor's just like 10's dying words were freaking human... And I certainly like that a hell of a lot better then 11's quirkyness thus far, I sure as hell can't see this son of ***** feeling gloriously happy that everybody lives. Fucker would just gloat feeling all awesome for saving the world.

 

[Zombie Sodomy]

That said I think one of the problems has been that in the modern Doctor Who we've seen some attempts to be consistant and do some real, lasing, world and character building, only to see it shattered. It can be argued (as your other responder pointed out) that this was never the idea behind Doctor Who, *BUT* I tend to agree that once they started doing it they should have continued to acknowlege it, I think the problem is they are trying to have it both ways, and it really doesn't work, the jarring impact of the way they did this really hitting the entire current fandom, "old school" fans who were here before the modern version are less bothered of course since, as was pointed out, it's happened before.

I actually like having a lot of character development and then having it shattered. It's brutal to watch, but how is that bad? As I mentioned earlier, it reinforces the fact that the doctor dies. It makes the transitions so much more tragic and, while not everyone likes that, I love it. I should be bothered when the doctor changes. It should piss me off that the character I've grown to love is killed off repeatedly. It makes the Doctor such a tragic character, that I end up sympathising with him all the more and dreading the day when he has to die. I love the Doctor because he's so sad, but he keeps putting other people before him at great cost to himself.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Ugh.... I just got to the episode where they upgrade the daleks.

Seriously? Taller and bright new colors? Are they fucking George Foreman Grills now? The Daleks were already unstoppable killing machines, they didn't need an upgrade let alone one that made them STYLISH! How are these ones any better? Because the eyestalks are a bit different? Because their voice isn't the iconic screetch anymore?

And Pond doesn't remember the planet fucking moving? They seriously ret-conned that with the cracks on the wall? And I also just met River... Not going to ask how she knows who the Doctor is already but she seems like an entirely different character then the one we met in the library.

V,V It's just easier if I pretend this is an entire reboot.... Sides a version of 10 is still out there, in Pete's World. Granted he's human.

I'm not sure what's the point of the new colors, other than to distinguish the "Leader" Daleks from the normal ones (since you see normal colored Daleks in later episodes) , but the reason the Daleks are taller (and even changed at all) is because Matt Smith is a good bit taller than David Tennant. The "old" (really not that old) Daleks were designed to be Tennant's height to make them intimidating. Now that Smith's the Doctor he literally towered over the old Daleks so they made them taller to match.

Also it's not a "ret-con" if ONE person doesn't remember.

And the point of River is that her history is reverse to the Doctor's so you aren't supposed to know how they met (even though her story is explained in later episodes) The River in the library is the last River. The end of her story, you know..with her dying and all. It's River after she's spent a lifetime crossing paths and learning from the Doctor.



I'm not saying the 11's run is beautifully written or anything, but a lot of the problems you have with it are answered in the episodes.

I can see if, say he was taller than the Cybermen. Yeah that be a problem. But a Dalek? First time I saw them they were hard enough to take seriously, fucking trash can with a plunger ductaped to it and telescope. One episode and murdering an entire base of people later, yeah one Dalek = pretty fucking scary. They shoot freaking lazer's they'd be terrifying at any size..... But I can forgive the size.

The colors? No. There is no defending the colors. They look like they should be sporting the Apple logo now.

Yeah I've come to realize that about River... That's actually not a bad gimmick.

EDIT: I'm assuming if Amy doesn't remember it was erased from existence... but I'm only 5 episodes in.