Doctor Who time-lock continuity? (spoilers abound)

[elvor0]

Posts seem to cover the OP pretty well.

What I want to know is, why did the war doctor regenerate into the new guy, and not smith? And, whats going on with the glowy time vagina that the doctor and compmanion leapt into at the end of last season, and why was that never even mentioned in the special? When did all this happen in continuity with the show, or did this happen AFTER they jumped in?

Remember, it was all NOT THAT GUY ominous music john hurt as the doctor

John Hurt regenned into Ecclestone, and Regenned from Mcgann (the 8th). Moffat said that he was in between 8 and 9 in a few interviews, and Ecclestone doesn't appear to know what he looks like when we first see him in Rose. It's also joked at by Hurt saying "Hope the Ears are less conspicuous this time". He's even wearing the same Jacket as Ecclestone. This makes Matt the 12th incarnation, and Capaldi (the new guy) the 13th.

As far as I'm aware it happened after the last episode. I'm hoping they'll address it in the christmas special.

What I want to know is, why did the war doctor regenerate into the new guy, and not smith?

We really don't know who Hurt Regen'd into. Some people think that he Regen'd into Eccleston, but at the moment, The Doctor's all out of Regens.

And quite frankly, when I saw Capaldi show up in the episode after the three were saying their own little phrases, I so wanted to hear Capaldi either go "FUCK" or "FUCKITY HI/BYE"

Moffatts said he's in between Mcgann and Ecclestone a few times. Plus it's shown Mcgann turns into Hurt in "Night of the Doctor" (Mini online episode), we know Mcgann is the 8th, ergo Hurt /has/ to turn into Ecclestone, because Ecclestone, Tennent and Smith are post Time War Doctors, while McGann and Hurt have both been shown to exist while the Time War is going on.

Upon turning into Capaldi he'll be out of regens, as I'm guessing the Exlir didn't count as a use, as the Arm turning into the second Tennent surely must count? Ah fuck it, I've heard tell of the Time Lords all being given a new cycle to fight the Time War, which can be done, as the Master got a new cycle in the classic series. That's the best explianation, as it doesn't require any retcons.

On the subject of Fuckity Bye, mandatory Tucker/Who mashup video.

 

[Lobster9]

We don't really know when the time lock came into effect, but personally I like to think it happened this way...

At some point during the war, the Daleks begin using time travel to manipulate the flow of time, rewriting history in order to engineer a victory over the Timelords. The Timelords see the potential damage to the universe that such action will bring about, and so choose to lock the conflict inside a quarantine until they can bring about a victory.

Victory, however, is impossible. Things inside the time lock grow increasingly nasty; a repeating loop of death and rebirth, with the battle growing more and more twisted each time. If the Timelords are defeated, the Daleks gain control of Gallifrey, and the time lock will be broken, leaving the rest of the universe at the mercy of the victorious Daleks.

The Moment will delete everything inside the time lock, protecting the rest of time and space outside, but killing everything trapped within. In Day of The Doctor however, they Save-Scum the Timelords inside of a pocket dimension, leaving the Daleks to fight it out amongst themselves, forever locked in a dead ball of Timey-Wimey.

When they do eventually save Gallifrey from the cuppa-soup, they can just say the Master ate Rassilon in the war room.. he was hungry after all.

 

[Multi-Hobbyist]

And for those of you focusing more on the John Hurt regeneration, don't forget that during David Tennant's run, the 10th Doctor was zapped by a Dalek when the planets were stolen and used a Regeneration there as well.

 

[Phuctifyno]

TL;DR: 2 different Time-Locks

The Time-Lock mentioned in the RTD seasons and the Out-Of-Universe stasis Time-Lock caused at the end of Day of the Doctor are two separate things. Also, the Moment was originally meant to completely wipe out Gallifrey and the Daleks, an act that up until now the Doctor believed he had carried out.

The entire Time War was already time-locked, allowing no time travel in or out (something all 13 doctors circumvented in the special with... magic I guess, who cares it was awesome).

In The End Of Time, Rassilon and the High Council were attempting to replace Earth to escape the Time War's Time-Lock right after finding out that the War Doctor had stolen the Moment, but before he could use it. They were trying to avoid the oncoming wrath of the Doctor's rash decision.

At the end of Day Of The Doctor (which is a little later in Gallifrey's timeline than the End Of Time events) they simply move the whole planet outside of the universe, putting them in a different type of time lock. Now, I'm not sure exactly what the new bubble-universe-time-lock-stasis-thing entails: whether Gallifrey experiences its own passage of time or not, peace from the Daleks, progress and rebuilding, or remains a frozen moment until returned to the universe, is yet to be determined. All we know is that it was saved from destruction and is waiting to be found.

I'm sure if you looked hard enough you could find some dialogue here or there that might sound like it contradicts, because let's face it, sometimes the technobabble isn't well thought out, but I think this logic makes the most sense.

 

[tairburster]

And for those of you focusing more on the John Hurt regeneration, don't forget that during David Tennant's run, the 10th Doctor was zapped by a Dalek when the planets were stolen and used a Regeneration there as well.

Was that not the episode where 10 Used his dismembered arm to avoid using up a regeneration. There is a reason why he did not change forms. He merely healed himself

 

[Multi-Hobbyist]

And for those of you focusing more on the John Hurt regeneration, don't forget that during David Tennant's run, the 10th Doctor was zapped by a Dalek when the planets were stolen and used a Regeneration there as well.

Was that not the episode where 10 Used his dismembered arm to avoid using up a regeneration. There is a reason why he did not change forms. He merely healed himself

I'd argue it was still a used up Regen. He was dying, the process begun, he lived again. He may not have changed, but it was still an escape from certain death, which could not have been accomplished without ... you guessed it, the Regen ability.

 

[EgyptianSpaceDog]

I wonder if there are still Daleks on Gallifrey? Because I imagine there would've been some on the planet's surface when it was frozen

 

[WolfThomas]

Again with the regens? Even as a fan of the old a series I know they're not going to limit themselves.

 

[rvbnut]

Ultimately Moffat done goofed. BUT! If you take the whole 3D Gallifreyan paintings to be images of "frozen moments in time" then Moffat works around the time-lock paradox by implying that Gallifrey and everyone on it are all locked inside the painting "Gallifrey falls no more". So if you take that Gallifrey is contained within the painting which is its own little pocket universe, then it all makes sense. Everything still works normally. Rassilon is with the council and has just received the information that the Doctor has taken The Moment so he sends a white point star to The Master in The End of Time and that all plays out nicely and ultimately The Doctor thinks he is sending them back into the time-lock but in reality he is sending them back into the painting's time-lock. And of course due to the memory wiping thing at the end of the 50th, The Doctor at that point doesn't know that it is the painting that he is sending them back to.

Call me crazy but there it is. The reason why I think that the time-locked Gallifrey is inside the painting is because of the stupid little filler part at the beginning with the weird sucker shapeshifter aliens that were trapped inside of the paintings and the whole making the painting "Gallifrey falls no more" seem like it is the most important thing in the universe. All of that makes me think that the painting contains Gallifrey since Matt Smith's Doctor goes on and on about the paintings being little moments of frozen time.

EDIT: Just remembered that in The End of Time, Rassilon constantly refers to Gallifrey burning over and over again repeatedly so this makes me think that Moffat has just rewritten the "lore" to suit the fan service episode that was the 50th.

 

[jake.thoste]

So this should help clarify any uncertainty in the time-lock debate. Rassilon attempted to escape the destruction of the Moment by the link he created in the Master. This link was capable of freeing all the time lords within the time war. But the events were still time locked. Once the time lock is created the entire war enters fixed time meaning the events can never change and their can be no interference to change the outcome of the war. So no the time war is not in a bubble universe but instead manipulates time around the parties at battle. To anyone outside the time-lock it would be impossible to stumble across that time and space. This is similar to a bubble universe but is not the same. The time lock prevents interference from others outside the war and it prevents escape. The events within the time-lock are fixed and will always occur. If the time lords were to be defeated their enemies would need to find a way to remove the time-lock before being able to leave the battlefield. Since the time war is time-locked how was the 9th Doctor (Hurt) able to escape to see his future self's? He was able to do so because the Moment wanted to show the Doctor who he would become if he burnt Gallifrey. The Moment opened up a time fissure and brought the three Doctors together. The other two Doctors left the Zygon negotiation to attempt to help the 9th Doctor in destroying Gallifrey so they could each share his burdon. The Moment also allowed the other two Doctors into the time war. The 11th Doctor (Tennant) even stated "These entire events should be time-locked. Something must have let us in." This strongly implies the Moment let them pass the time-lock as it is unlikely the time-lords did based on their shock of seeing more than one of the Doctor's regenerations. If the Moment was capable of allowing Hurt leave and reenter the time war than the Moment would have the power to let the other two Doctors in as well. The Moment also knew the Doctors were about to arrive as she was talking about the TARDIS' wheezing sound right before they materialized. Since the events of the time war are time-locked Gallifrey never burnt as the Moment allowed the other Doctor's in and they put the planet in stasis. These events can never change as the time-lock wrote them in stone and created a fixed point in time. Since the three doctors traveled together all in the same time to fight the Zygons their time streams were scrambled so badly they did not remember saving Gallifrey. The last memory would be the Moment telling the Doctor he would be the only survivor and the next memory would be Gallifrey no longer exists. The gap is not filled until their time streams catch up to the 12th doctor (Smith). Gallifrey could not be restored even partially through the painting of Gallifrey Falls No More because the painting is a slice of real time but the Doctors only entered it as a suspended animation.