Doctor Who time-lock continuity? (spoilers abound)

Multi-Hobbyist

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Right, so, regarding that; Never mind the comics that set this up nor the audio's that accompanied. Taking a look at the 2 part special The End of Time, the 10th Doctor has to push Gallifrey back into the Time War's time-lock, which Rassilon seems to confirm, did indeed happen. (Not to mention the countless Dalek's that talk about the time-lock.)

Now look at the 50th anniversary special, The Day of the Doctor. We find out Gallifrey was moved aside and the time-lock never occurred. The Doctor simply believes things were time-locked.
So, the question here, what REALLY happened? Why would the Time Lords, including Rassilon, believe they were in a time-lock when they saw the 13 Doctor's save them from an unreachable doom?
 

Albino Boo

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In show explanation. Gallifrey ended up being frozen in time which looks a time-lock .

Real reason. It suited the dramatic purpose of the writers then, to have Gallifrey in a time-lock. Now it suits them not have Gallifrey in time-lock and they will make some vague reason for it and keep their fingers crossed.
 

Vivi22

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Multi-Hobbyist said:
Right, so, regarding that; Never mind the comics that set this up nor the audio's that accompanied. Taking a look at the 2 part special The End of Time, the 10th Doctor has to push Gallifrey back into the Time War's time-lock, which Rassilon seems to confirm, did indeed happen. (Not to mention the countless Dalek's that talk about the time-lock.)

Now look at the 50th anniversary special, The Day of the Doctor. We find out Gallifrey was moved aside and the time-lock never occurred. The Doctor simply believes things were time-locked.
So, the question here, what REALLY happened? Why would the Time Lords, including Rassilon, believe they were in a time-lock when they saw the 13 Doctor's save them from an unreachable doom?
Honestly, from what happened in the special I'm actually somewhat convinced that the Doctors putting Gallifrey in stasis came after Rassilon tried to escape. Let's look at what we know happened: Gallifrey was losing that battle and was going to be destroyed. The Doctor had stolen the moment and was going to use it to wipe out both sides completely. But because the battle was time locked they couldn't simply change the outcome of the battle or the Doctor seemingly using the device.

That's why Rassilon hatched the plan to escape the inevitable destruction, which failed. After that is when the Doctor's saved Gallifrey. Now normally they wouldn't be able to just fly into a time locked event to save Gallifrey, but Dalek Caan did it at the cost of his sanity, so possible, but difficult and not advised. Every version of the Doctor being aided by by a time vortex empowered Rose (or the moment, or both, I was unclear on that bit) probably had an easier time.
 

sanquin

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It was said in previous episodes that Gallifrey was time-locked outside of the universe. And in the end of time it was implied that Gallifrey was in it's own little universe that was always stuck at that particular part of time. In "The day of the doctor", it was said that Gallifrey is 'frozen' in time, in it's own little universe. 'Frozen in time' and 'Time-locked' can both easily mean the same thing. So it is still basically the same thing, just better explained.

To maybe explain in better. I believe that in both versions of what happened, the result mostly the same. Gallifrey locked away in time in it's own universe. The part what differs is what The Doctor thought had happened (time-locked in a place that can't normally be reached, doomed forever) to what actually happened. (time-locked in a place where it can be rescued from, if he can find where it's hidden)

The only real problem I find is that there are now somehow 2 different councils. The one that wanted to end time, and the one in the 50th anniversary.

The short reason was already explained though:
Because it fit what the writers wanted to write then. And because it fits what the writers wants to write now. Doctor who has never been about continuity, and more about where the writers' imagination can take them. Just exploring imaginative concepts in the sci-fi genre.
 

Fangro

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First of all there are two councils: High Council (Seen in the End of Time) and War Council (Seen in 50th anniversary). In the anniversary, when the War Council is show, they say that the High Council is having a meeting for a plan of their own. That plan was the events that happened in the End of Time (remember, that there was a gap of Time between War Doctor stealing the Moment and all 13 Doctors putting Galifrey to stasis)

This means that President Rassilon tried to break the planet from Time-Lock, but failed and only then it was put in stasis by the Doctor.

Now, for the Time Lock, the entire War was Time Locked even before the planet was presumably destroyed. Meaning nobody can travel to it and change the events. Of course, like all locks, it is not 100 percent perfect. Dalek Cann broke it and Doctors broke it with the help of The Moment's interface (it was one of the most powerful pieces of technology ever, so it is not a surprise that it can do it).

So, the events from End of Time happened as they happened and then Doctor put the Galifrey into stasis, but remembered as if he destroyed it using the moment.
 

Fangro

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First of all there are two councils: High Council (Seen in the End of Time) and War Council (Seen in 50th anniversary). In the anniversary, when the War Council is show, they say that the High Council is having a meeting for a plan of their own. That plan was the events that happened in the End of Time (remember, that there was a gap of Time between War Doctor stealing the Moment and all 13 Doctors putting Galifrey to stasis)

This means that President Rassilon tried to break the planet from Time-Lock, but failed and only then it was put in stasis by the Doctor.

Now, for the Time Lock, the entire War was Time Locked even before the planet was presumably destroyed. Meaning nobody can travel to it and change the events. Of course, like all locks, it is not 100 percent perfect. Dalek Cann broke it and Doctors broke it with the help of The Moment's interface (it was one of the most powerful pieces of technology ever, so it is not a surprise that it can do it).

So, the events from End of Time happened as they happened and then Doctor put the Galifrey into stasis, but remembered as if he destroyed it using the moment.
 
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the Time Lords may have been driven mad by the war, but there is a population of millions there who need to be saved, and i think the loss of those millions is what haunted the doctor, and may be his focus
 

thiosk

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Posts seem to cover the OP pretty well.

What I want to know is, why did the war doctor regenerate into the new guy, and not smith? And, whats going on with the glowy time vagina that the doctor and compmanion leapt into at the end of last season, and why was that never even mentioned in the special? When did all this happen in continuity with the show, or did this happen AFTER they jumped in?

Remember, it was all NOT THAT GUY ominous music john hurt as the doctor
 

Adrenalize

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John hurt regenerated to the Eccleston Dr, not the new one (that's what the joke about THE ears was about)
 

Dr. Thrax

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thiosk said:
What I want to know is, why did the war doctor regenerate into the new guy, and not smith?
We really don't know who Hurt Regen'd into. Some people think that he Regen'd into Eccleston, but at the moment, The Doctor's all out of Regens.

And quite frankly, when I saw Capaldi show up in the episode after the three were saying their own little phrases, I so wanted to hear Capaldi either go "FUCK" or "FUCKITY HI/BYE"
 

Zacharious-khan

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I think your question is misdirected. The real question is more introspective and is something you ask yourself, "Why do you think Moffat cares about internal logical continuity?"
 

artanis_neravar

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thiosk said:
Posts seem to cover the OP pretty well.

What I want to know is, why did the war doctor regenerate into the new guy, and not smith? And, whats going on with the glowy time vagina that the doctor and compmanion leapt into at the end of last season, and why was that never even mentioned in the special? When did all this happen in continuity with the show, or did this happen AFTER they jumped in?

Remember, it was all NOT THAT GUY ominous music john hurt as the doctor
The War doctor is somewhere between the 8th Doctor and the 9th, Smith is the 11th (or 12th now?) The glowy Time thing was resolved the Doctor saved Clara and it happens before this special. The doctor even says "They are me, don't you remember meeting them?" (or something along those lines) a direct reference to her traveling through his timeline
 

Gecko clown

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In the two part David Tennant finale spectacular Gallifrey AND Skaro, and I guess all of the time war, were time-locked together. Whereas in The Day of the Doctor Gallifrey is moved into its own pocket universe.
 

SuperSamio64

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Everyone seems to assume it was 'The Moment' that time-locked the war but evidently this isn't the case else stories like 'Dalek' and 'Journey's End' don't make much sense at all. Ergo the time-lock must have been caused by something else.
In answer to the question about how 'The End of Time' works my friend posted this on his Facebook a little while ago:
"For anyone who doesn't understand how Day of the Doctor fits the timeline:
>Day of the Doctor scenes of general destruction, War Doctor steals the Moment
>the High Council from End of Time is meeting at the exact moment we see the Time Lord soldiers discuss that the Moment has been stolen
>Rassilon presumably does his ultimate sanction thing, Gallifrey momentarily appears over 2009 Earth until 10 sends it "back into hell"
>Simm-Master proceeds to fuck up the High Council
>13 Doctors out of nowhere send the entire planet into a painting or whatever
>High Council and the Master might have died together, might now
>War Doctor forgets as he turns into 9, proceeds to think he's a murderer and meets a blonde chav"
 
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artanis_neravar said:
thiosk said:
Posts seem to cover the OP pretty well.

What I want to know is, why did the war doctor regenerate into the new guy, and not smith? And, whats going on with the glowy time vagina that the doctor and compmanion leapt into at the end of last season, and why was that never even mentioned in the special? When did all this happen in continuity with the show, or did this happen AFTER they jumped in?

Remember, it was all NOT THAT GUY ominous music john hurt as the doctor
The War doctor is somewhere between the 8th Doctor and the 9th, Smith is the 11th (or 12th now?) The glowy Time thing was resolved the Doctor saved Clara and it happens before this special. The doctor even says "They are me, don't you remember meeting them?" (or something along those lines) a direct reference to her traveling through his timeline
does the War Doctor count as a regeneration, as it was a regeneration caused by the elixer
 

thiosk

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artanis_neravar said:
thiosk said:
Posts seem to cover the OP pretty well.

What I want to know is, why did the war doctor regenerate into the new guy, and not smith? And, whats going on with the glowy time vagina that the doctor and compmanion leapt into at the end of last season, and why was that never even mentioned in the special? When did all this happen in continuity with the show, or did this happen AFTER they jumped in?

Remember, it was all NOT THAT GUY ominous music john hurt as the doctor
The War doctor is somewhere between the 8th Doctor and the 9th, Smith is the 11th (or 12th now?) The glowy Time thing was resolved the Doctor saved Clara and it happens before this special. The doctor even says "They are me, don't you remember meeting them?" (or something along those lines) a direct reference to her traveling through his timeline
Thats right. I'd forgotten about that line, didn't properly catch the significance, I suppose I don't know how he got her out of the time stream once they were both in it.

I also apparently didn't see when the capaldi doctor came in. I thought thats who the war doctor was glowing into.