Does anybody ask why others should be loved?

[Bitter_one13]

I was floating this question recently, and figured I should research it, just a little. Two entries from Google, and nothing from here, and I'm kind of short-handed. I'm curious if anybody actually asks this to others? I mean that in the sense of me asking you why anybody would love you, not me asking why I would love myself.

 

[Bitter_one13]

Right,

...but that everyone still deserves it to some degree, and that their decisions will effect their ability to receive and give love to others.

Okay, I can understand that concept. But what if they believe that they've lost their right to be loved, either through past selfish exploits or some type of incapability? I mean, I guess this question boils more to how people perceive themselves, and what they look at to establish their worth. But then that leads into this question: Why don't people see both good and bad things about themselves, and find that the bad outweighs the good?

Edit: Sorry, that's a somewhat nebulous question. I think a better way to put it is "Why wouldn't people be able to see both good and bad in themselves, and find that the bad outweighs the good?"

 

[Bitter_one13]

...but in general when I see it in others, it's usually guilt or a lack of self worth coupled with a bit of depression. To these people, it would be foolhardy for someone to love them, or invest time in then. After all, they've been through this, they messed up that situation, etc...

So you're proposing that it's a matter of pattern recognition, of experience? Like how one knows not to play with knives after they've gotten cut a few times, or knows at least how to be careful around them?

 

[Bitter_one13]

...

Why should people be honest?

So they can know themselves or shape themselves to change. At the very least to better understand themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post, but I want to counter this point. If honesty spurs growth, then how can we have such a massive number of liars in the world?

 

[Bitter_one13]

By the way, to any participants in this conversation, I'm sorry if I cut off a lot of meat in your posts when I quote you. I just don't want to constantly re-post walls of text when I'm countering specific points.

 

[Imp Poster]

Love like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Meaning, I can't answer for somebody else why someone would love me. I can only answer why I love me. It is subjective, never really objective answer. Sometimes, I find myself attracted to a person for a certain trait. But that person may not think it is a big deal or maybe even not like themselves for that trait like a crooked smile or something. Just like love, you can love someone being a certain way but the person may not like them being that way. Like let's say cops. People may feel a sense of security,protection,etc. with loving someone in that field. But that person may fear that because what happens if that person can't protect them, fails them maybe because their own chances of death? And that person knowing what it is really like out there. All the awful things people can be capable of, makes that fear real serious. Of coarse, that part(fear) never really surfaces outward. But they could think it deep down.

And like Aylaine says that is a loaded question, assuming that what you say is what makes love work for someone else and then have to live by what you say which may not always going to be the case in all relationships, nor work for everybody to love you.

 

[Bitter_one13]

That's the pattern I seen. Though, it's all influenced by what someone has experienced over and over negatively, and this it builds a negative pattern that to someone who generally feels down, they are convinced that they will repeat...

All right, so would you say it's necessarily the logical thing to want to not put yourself in another situation where pain is the most likely outcome?

...

So why do people lie?

1. People like stability.

2. People are lazy and to constantly change requires brain power.

3. Parents and religion in general have convinced people that this is that and that's all there is. Why change the rules when they're there, right?

4. It's easy. One can say they love someone much easier than they could say that person has an inferiority complex.

5. Most people are scary. By eliminating honesty you can cover up the scariness. And then all is well in the world.

Interesting points, but for number one, I've seen that a couple of these other motivations can rendered moot by the first over the long term.

For third point: Religion can cause all sorts of issues in thought processes, at least if that person isn't actually properly educated in their theological leanings.

For fourth point: If they say they love them, then they can get stuck in a relationship that they have to extract painfully from in the long term, or even more painfully remain in.

Also, I have a point for fifth point: How do you mean people are scary? What's scary about them? I mean, the thing I find most terrifying about other people is that they can lie to me, not tell me when something is wrong, when I'm wrong.

 

[Bitter_one13]

Love like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Meaning, I can't answer for somebody else why someone would love me. I can only answer why I love me. It is subjective, never really objective answer. Sometimes, I find myself attacted to a person for a certain trait. But that person may not think it is a big deal or maybe even not like themselves for that trait like a crooked smile or something. Just like love, you can love someone being a certain way but the person may not like them being that way. Like let's say cops. People may feel a sense of security,protection,etc. with loving someone in that field. But that person may fear that because what happens if that person can't protect them, fails them maybe because their own chances of death? And that person knowing what it is really like out there. All the awful things people can be capable of, makes that fear real serious. Of coarse, that part(fear) never really surfaces outward. But they could think it deep down.

And like Aylaine says that is a loaded question, assuming that what you say is what makes love work for someone else and then have to live by what you say which may not always going to be the case in all relationships, nor work for everybody to love you.

All right, those are excellent points, but I'm not seeing why people aren't asking others why anybody would love them. I'm trying to figure out why people aren't asking others to diagnose themselves.

 

[Bitter_one13]

Well the issue regarding "pain" when one experiences a break up is due to thinking that your love is something special. Fact of the matter is that love is really not special no matter what you consider it to be. Millions of people experience love of some kind, entitlements leads to the idea that your love is somehow special. Which then drives to pain when it's fragile existence ceases.

People can kill you and try to justify it.

That's why I say that my cat is the only creature who truly loves me. If my cat killed me it wouldn't bother justifying it. It'd just eat me. Unconditional love requires unconditional hatred as well. To be truly loved you need to be able to know that the other one can kill you.

And by scary I mean that most people's true selves are quite sadistic or insane.

Not to say humans are not naturally nice. Again that makes biological sense, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. Monkeys do it, so do humans, dolphins, etc.

However in a natural world that would be the case. Sadly we live in a human world and that changes the playing field.

Most people hide the fact that they have thoughts of killing others. This is due to rules and laws being in the way.

In a natural world humans would kill one another at the very least due to alpha-male fights. Or perhaps due to tribe differences if you put a tiny bit of civilization which we had in a natural world.

People deny themselves that talking to oneself isn't normal, wanting to kill someone isn't normal, and that anyone who does both is just the Antichrist.

Good thing I'm not religious though.

I have a question for you, although it's slightly off my original point. Do you actually have people in your life that agree with you? People you feel close to? I mean, just because they can hurt you doesn't mean they will. Do you think anybody values you enough to want to keep you in their life? And if so, how is this different than love?

 

[Bitter_one13]

What I'm saying is that humans justify themselves while cats don't. My cat has no reason to love me save for me feeding him. It's arguable that it wouldn't love me if I didn't feedback it but my cat loves me beyond that unconditionally. I would not argue that my parents love me unconditionally (though by no means are they bad parents).

On some issues I do have people in my life that agree with me.

However in AP Psychology class we took a test about what stage of (I think) Erickson stages we were at.

I scored a 4/15 regarding intimacy which one of the questions was something like "Do you feel that someone knows and understands you?" 4/15 = I do not have any intimacy with anyone.

I value others enough to keep them in my life. I can kill my parents, my friends, etc. I don't because I value them on some level. I would say that is love. I accept them in my world, acceptance is love.

However love is not flat, it's curved. I obviously am not intimate with anyone on any real level and that is not my fault entirely at least.

I've yet to meet a human (female) to meet my expectations. Ready, there's are real hard:

A-B breast size.

At least trim your vagina nicely. Though shaven is a bigger plus.

Brunette.

Accepts that mentally I could rip them to shreds if I so choose and will present them with questions to instigate self-discovery.

Namely it's second and last one's I have issues finding. Firstly I don't plan on asking "Hey do you shave your vagina" and secondly people find such deep levels of connection to be creepy.

I find it pathetic out of the 3000+ kids in my school not a single girl has presented herself (nor have I found such a woman) to meet these expectations.

Now, here's a subversion of my original point: What makes you think you deserve this person? If they can't get close to you, if you can hurt them at any time with no compunction, why would they want you in their life? Will you just flip a switch when you do find this ideal girl?

I'm not trying to be cruel or mean, but this line of thought interests me, and most people here don't seem to have an answer that I can get.

 

[Bitter_one13]

I don't though other less deserving folks get "love" so why not right? It's subjective anyway.

They can get close to me, they just don't want to, perhaps out of fear that I might mentally rape them. However with that skill I can also delve into their person and let them discover themselves if they want to. Offer another viewpoint and you'll two see directions.

Switch? I said I could hurt, that is never my intention regarding finding acceptance. And that's all I ask for. You don't have to like me, or even understand me, just accept me.

Ultimately, what is your definition of love here? I think we're using the same words to represent different ideas here, so I want to get on an even playing field.

 

[Bitter_one13]

Acceptance.

Simple as that though far too much to ask for it seems.

Is it a passive acceptance? Like putting up with you, like thinking it's okay for you to do what you do?

My tone was neutral there, I'm not saying you're just somebody to put up with, and I don't want you to read it as such.

 

[Bitter_one13]

Acceptance.

Simple as that though far too much to ask for it seems.

Is it a passive acceptance? Like putting up with you, like thinking it's okay for you to do what you do?

My tone was neutral there, I'm not saying you're just somebody to put up with, and I don't want you to read it as such.

Sure, why not.

Hmm. I'm curious what the difference between tolerance and acceptance here is, then.

 

[Bitter_one13]

Tolerance is perhaps a limitation. It's the tone of the word.

Acceptance is like forgiveness and therefore has a nicer spin.

Okay, this has been illuminating, thank you.

 

[Imp Poster]

SNIP

All right, those are excellent points, but I'm not seeing why people aren't asking others why anybody would love them. I'm trying to figure out why people aren't asking others to diagnose themselves.

Well for one, it is a loaded question. Whatever you reply, will set the standard, but not every situation you get into, will be what you chose in how you answered it. So, what you said and what you do, maybe different.

And two, for that question, a better reply would be, if you are so curious why don't you find out for yourself. Adds a little mystery don't you think? Besides, I feel that the questioner is cheating themselves in the answerer's point of view. Because what the answerer thinks he or she finds loveable about themselves, may not be what the questioner loves. Plus it is the questioner's own to find his or her love of that person than have it spelled out from someone else. It is also different being in love with someone than to just talk about it. I don't know how to explain that, but being a superhero is different than talking about being a superhero, I would imagine. Who knows what you will be up against and what pressures you would actually face as opposed to what you think you will face based on the fiction you been reading or seeing.

People have many fecets in their lives that they may not realize. It would take an outsider to make them realize that. Stuff like this could be like a girl I know, is so right handed she does everything counter clockwise. I can tell when one of my friends is lying. His left eye twitches when he does. And for an outsider, maybe one that loves these people to find these things out, those are going to be the things they value the most about a person. Their unique little quirks that they may or may not realize. I myself when in love, likes to find out everything about this person and not ask it. I may see something in them that they do not. But then again, it is all subjective as said before in a manner of perspective with heart's intent.

I do not ask people to diagnose themselves for the fact that I want to see it for myself assuming that the person will allow me to see it. Then we can always talk about that which may lead to a intimate/worthy discussion. But I do at times, will question a person's self esteem. Why they may feel so low value or high value of themselves.

 

[Zaik]

I have asked that question before, all you get is either a confused look, a rose-colored self perspective that is about as accurate as a bow made out of noodles, or anger.

It's funny and super-effective for getting rid of someone you aren't interested in, but beyond that it seems relatively useless to me.

 

[Doclector]

It's an interesting one, to say the least. I've never really asked that question in specific, I've asked what's good about me, sometimes because someone told me to try and find out, but as for why anyone would love me, I've never, in memorable...memory, asked that, partly because that's a horrificly emo-ish question, and partly because I'm male, and if I asked another male, that would come off as, well, not exactly the most masculine thing in the world, and if you ask a girl, it suggests you want a relationship with them, and even if you do, that's a horrible way to reveal it.

Personally, I think what makes a person "good", is entirely different to what makes them able to be loved. I think "good" is what makes a person valuable, a good worker, perhaps a good friend. What makes a person loveable comes down to sex appeal at the heart of it, no matter how much people like to think that it's an emotional connection, at least that's what I think.

So, if what you're looking for is an answer to that question, well, are you good looking? Charming? Do you know how to talk to the relevant sex by a reasonable age? And don't kid yourself by counting being a good person as a plus-no one else does.

 

[MoganFreeman]

It is very hard to love someone who doesn't love themselves.

Therefore, I try to love myself and seek others who do the same.