Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.

[Darkmantle]

Honestly, I don't really care what any of the "issues" here were, wearing an American flag in an American school simply should not be a problem, ever.

How about chanting USA USA USA at anyone who is wearing a different countries' flag? It sounds like that's what happened last year at that school, so the administrators didn't want that BS pulled again.

And I can only assume many of the children involved in last years incident just "happened" to be wearing their american flag t-shirts that day. It's just tpp much of a coincidence, you know?

 

[Jadak]

Honestly, I don't really care what any of the "issues" here were, wearing an American flag in an American school simply should not be a problem, ever.

Okay, so you're going to remain ignorant of the details and assert your opinion anyway. Absolute statements without understanding details... what a *brilliant* way to form an opinion.

Really don't think the details matter one way or the other when that opinion is that wearing a national symbol within that same nation is is no way a bad thing. Would you feel better if I bothered to read the article and came back to repeat the same thing? Because I wouldn't.

How about chanting USA USA USA at anyone who is wearing a different countries' flag? It sounds like that's what happened last year at that school, so the administrators didn't want that BS pulled again.

And I can only assume many of the children involved in last years incident just "happened" to be wearing their american flag t-shirts that day. It's just tpp much of a coincidence, you know?

And that sounds like an issue with kids being dicks. And that has the same approach it would have anywhere else, for any other reason. Kick the kids out, or whatever other action appropriate response is deemed fit. Surely nobody thinks that simply having some kids stop wearing the flag is going to stop their behaviour?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Well I do sympathize with you on this, I can't help but feel like England had it coming. After all of the bullsh*t that England has done in the past (which makes my government look like a saint), if there is some shame to be English, I don't think its a bad thing, its karma. I realize this may sound insensitive, but when there are still places like North Ireland, I stop feeling sympathy for the lack of English pride.

Karma for what, exactly? The slave trade, which was abolished far earlier in the UK than in the USA? Colonialism, which was also practiced by France, Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium? Or perhaps you mean karma for the billions of pounds of foreign aid and our reputation of being one of the most welcoming countries in Europe to asylum seekers and immigrants?

Northern Ireland is a complete clusterf*ck (I believe that's the accepted academic term), that's for sure. But really no moreso than, say, the Basque region in Spain... and sure as hell not as bad as Chechenya.

So why exactly has England "had it coming"? Other countries have done worse and still remain proud and patriotic. Is it REALLY all down to post-colonialism?

well I just took Chinese history class, and holy sh*t, what.the.hell.England? Really? Opium in China? To resort to being a NATIONAL drug pusher is an extremely sh*tty thing to do.
Saying that North Ireland is a "clusterf*ck" doesn't excuse Englands involvement in the whole situation.

I never said England was the worse, I simply pointed out that England has done al ot of terrible things in history.

Also, for places like China and India, it wasn't that long ago that England owned part/all of THEIR land.

P.S. I'm not trying to condemn all of the English for the actions of the English government/elite.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Well I do sympathize with you on this, I can't help but feel like England had it coming. After all of the bullsh*t that England has done in the past (which makes my government look like a saint), if there is some shame to be English, I don't think its a bad thing, its karma. I realize this may sound insensitive, but when there are still places like North Ireland, I stop feeling sympathy for the lack of English pride.

Karma for what, exactly? The slave trade, which was abolished far earlier in the UK than in the USA? Colonialism, which was also practiced by France, Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium? Or perhaps you mean karma for the billions of pounds of foreign aid and our reputation of being one of the most welcoming countries in Europe to asylum seekers and immigrants?

Northern Ireland is a complete clusterf*ck (I believe that's the accepted academic term), that's for sure. But really no moreso than, say, the Basque region in Spain... and sure as hell not as bad as Chechenya.

So why exactly has England "had it coming"? Other countries have done worse and still remain proud and patriotic. Is it REALLY all down to post-colonialism?

Clearly karma for not killing enough natives then putting the rest into reservations

Honestly, I don't really care what any of the "issues" here were, wearing an American flag in an American school simply should not be a problem, ever.

Okay, so you're going to remain ignorant of the details and assert your opinion anyway. Absolute statements without understanding details... what a *brilliant* way to form an opinion.

Really don't think the details matter one way or the other when that opinion is that wearing a national symbol within that same nation is is no way a bad thing. Would you feel better if I bothered to read the article and came back to repeat the same thing? Because I wouldn't.

I figured you wouldn't be able to see beyond "Omg look it's our national symbol" and would fail to understand that that doesn't mean it can't send another message.

once again you are using your "mind reading" abilities to tell us how other people (how you have never met) feel when they see an American flag.

 

[Jadak]

I figured you wouldn't be able to see beyond "Omg look it's our national symbol" and would fail to understand that that doesn't mean it can't send another message.

Figure whatever you want, doesn't make your opinion any more valid than mine. A symbol is just a symbol, if some people are using it to send a negative message, the problem is with those people. Does it really make any sense to go about banning it for that? And just for the people using it to send that message?

The problem is with the people. Preventing them from wearing a perfectly acceptable shirt is not going to change their behaviour and as should be obvious by the fact that this article even exists, creates more problems than it solves (which is none).

 

[Dagda Mor]

Even though this happened on May 5th of this year, CNN just ran the article now, likely due to the legal proceedings taking so long.

A group of white students wearing T-Shirts bearing the American flag were asked to turn their shirts inside out due to the possibility it could have been inflammatory to the Mexican students at the school on Cinco de Mayo.

The students and their families sued the school on the grounds that their freedom of speech had been infringed and the Judge in Northern California sided with the school.


How do you feel about this?

Im my personal opinion, I believe that when wearing your nation's flag on your own soil becomes "inflammatory" and unacceptable, the problem is not with the students or the t-shirts or the flag, it is with the Judge and the schools. The thought that someone can immigrate from another country and have a holiday from that country (which in the case of Cinco de Mayo, the Mexicans in Mexico don't even really celebrate like we do in the U.S.) be grounds for their host country having to hide their flag, we have a problem on many levels. If I were to go to Great Britain and demand that the British flag be covered because it might offend me on the 4th of July, it would cause an uproar.


The article in question can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/18/opinion/navarrette-t-shirt-controversy/

They weren't just wearing Old Navy shirts with small American flags on them.They were deliberately trolling the Mexicans.They were wearing massive American flags as clothing, and spewing out xenophobic remarks about Mexicans.


Fact-check,please.

 

[Jadak]

[snip

Let's see... for a single day they can't wear it to ruin what they were doing. Hmm does this fix the entire issue? No. Does it fix the immediate one and send them a message? Yes.

I mean seriously, how ridiculous can you be to say they should do 'whatever other action appropriate appropriate response is deemed fit' while complaining about what they did. They did do what they deemed fit. They told the kids to turn their shirts inside out. This is not rocket science.

And remind me, what exactly did doing that fix? Do you think the kids stopped being dicks because someone told them to turn their shirts inside out? Hell no, have you never been a kid? The kids are probably bigger dicks than ever now that they feel they've been slighted for something like that.

If anything, it only made the problem worse. With the support of their parents and an attempted lawsuit, the kids aren't going to feel like they did anything wrong no matter what the other details were, and now it's apparently a media worthy issue (which isn't good for anyone)

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Well I do sympathize with you on this, I can't help but feel like England had it coming. After all of the bullsh*t that England has done in the past (which makes my government look like a saint), if there is some shame to be English, I don't think its a bad thing, its karma. I realize this may sound insensitive, but when there are still places like North Ireland, I stop feeling sympathy for the lack of English pride.

Karma for what, exactly? The slave trade, which was abolished far earlier in the UK than in the USA? Colonialism, which was also practiced by France, Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium? Or perhaps you mean karma for the billions of pounds of foreign aid and our reputation of being one of the most welcoming countries in Europe to asylum seekers and immigrants?

Northern Ireland is a complete clusterf*ck (I believe that's the accepted academic term), that's for sure. But really no moreso than, say, the Basque region in Spain... and sure as hell not as bad as Chechenya.

So why exactly has England "had it coming"? Other countries have done worse and still remain proud and patriotic. Is it REALLY all down to post-colonialism?

Clearly karma for not killing enough natives then putting the rest into reservations

Honestly, I don't really care what any of the "issues" here were, wearing an American flag in an American school simply should not be a problem, ever.

Okay, so you're going to remain ignorant of the details and assert your opinion anyway. Absolute statements without understanding details... what a *brilliant* way to form an opinion.

Really don't think the details matter one way or the other when that opinion is that wearing a national symbol within that same nation is is no way a bad thing. Would you feel better if I bothered to read the article and came back to repeat the same thing? Because I wouldn't.

I figured you wouldn't be able to see beyond "Omg look it's our national symbol" and would fail to understand that that doesn't mean it can't send another message.

once again you are using your "mind reading" abilities to tell us how other people (how you have never met) feel when they see an American flag.

Or this is you displaying your superpower to not understand a post. Because I never said anything about what he was thinking, I was summarizing his argument.

I mean really, how much do you have to ignore any kind of critical thinking to misread it like that?

You just claimed that the flag of America sends "another message". To quote you, "understand that that doesn't mean it can't send another message". How do YOU know what message it sends to OTHER people? Have you met every single one of them, I doubt that highly. So like I typed, you must be using your "mind reading" abilities again, because otherwise, you can't know what message that sends to ever body.

 

[Dagda Mor]

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/265455-american-flag-shirts-ignite-firestorm
Here's a more objective reporting of the story,with pictures of the kids that were asked to switch their clothes.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Well I do sympathize with you on this, I can't help but feel like England had it coming. After all of the bullsh*t that England has done in the past (which makes my government look like a saint), if there is some shame to be English, I don't think its a bad thing, its karma. I realize this may sound insensitive, but when there are still places like North Ireland, I stop feeling sympathy for the lack of English pride.

Karma for what, exactly? The slave trade, which was abolished far earlier in the UK than in the USA? Colonialism, which was also practiced by France, Spain, Portugal, Germany and Belgium? Or perhaps you mean karma for the billions of pounds of foreign aid and our reputation of being one of the most welcoming countries in Europe to asylum seekers and immigrants?

Northern Ireland is a complete clusterf*ck (I believe that's the accepted academic term), that's for sure. But really no moreso than, say, the Basque region in Spain... and sure as hell not as bad as Chechenya.

So why exactly has England "had it coming"? Other countries have done worse and still remain proud and patriotic. Is it REALLY all down to post-colonialism?

Clearly karma for not killing enough natives then putting the rest into reservations

Honestly, I don't really care what any of the "issues" here were, wearing an American flag in an American school simply should not be a problem, ever.

Okay, so you're going to remain ignorant of the details and assert your opinion anyway. Absolute statements without understanding details... what a *brilliant* way to form an opinion.

Really don't think the details matter one way or the other when that opinion is that wearing a national symbol within that same nation is is no way a bad thing. Would you feel better if I bothered to read the article and came back to repeat the same thing? Because I wouldn't.

I figured you wouldn't be able to see beyond "Omg look it's our national symbol" and would fail to understand that that doesn't mean it can't send another message.

once again you are using your "mind reading" abilities to tell us how other people (how you have never met) feel when they see an American flag.

Or this is you displaying your superpower to not understand a post. Because I never said anything about what he was thinking, I was summarizing his argument.

I mean really, how much do you have to ignore any kind of critical thinking to misread it like that?

You just claimed that the flag of America sends "another message". To quote you, "understand that that doesn't mean it can't send another message". How do YOU know what message it sends to OTHER people? Have you met every single one of them, I doubt that highly. So like I typed, you must be using your "mind reading" abilities again, because otherwise, you can't know what message that sends to ever body.

Oh I see. It's you failing at basic English here. I never said that anyone was taking it as a particular message. I said it CAN send a different message. That this is a possibility is not a hard concept. At least... I thought it wasn't but apparently you've shown me that for some people it is.

I mean really, how pathetic must you get to leap to blabbering about 'you can't know what message that send to ever body[sic]' when I said nothing about how 'ever body[sic]' was taking it.

You do understand dropping words like 'can' out of it is intellectually dishonest right? Or is that something people like you just don't care about?

If your going on the possibility that the American flag "CAN" send another message, then the same could be said about the celebration of Cinco De Mayo. That celebration "CAN" also "also send another message". Why not just stop both parties instead of focusing on one?

 

[Michael826]

Well, I'm glad to have been proven right in my guess that this was legal when this story first cropped up.

School children don't have absolute free speech, if the school can prove that the shirts are disruptive (say, for inciting ethnic tensions), then they can be told not to wear them. I think it's silly to conflate what are clearly ethnic tensions with patriotism. They didn't wear American flags because they were proud of their country. They wore them to antagonize Mexican-American students who were celebrating something they didn't happen to be a part of. It's a terrible and offensive use of the flag.

I should also note, that it was once considered wildly inappropriate, and gauche to print an American flag decoration on any item of clothing. I still think of it as kind of tacky, it's a gross form of plastic patriotism.

Everyone, please listen to this post. There is much wisdom within.

I remember hearing about this story near the time the event actually happened (I think it was on a Cracked article) and my thoughts were 'so of all the days you could have chosen to show your 'patriotism' you chose the one day when they had the chance to be proud of their native culture?'.

Let's be blunt, this isn't any violation of free speech or any sign that 'this is what's wrong with our society', it was a bunch of obnoxious little shits who wanted to give a xenophobic 'fuck you' to the other students and get away with it.

I love you two. I also love how everyone else in that thread has ignored the, pretty damn important, cinco de mayo bit.

You guys have hit the nail on the head. The use of the US flag in this instance was purely inflammatory. Cinco de Mayo, while not the Mexican day of Independence, is still a very important day. One should not be condemned for having pride in their heritage, but you shouldn't use it for the sole purpose of antagonizing others.

 

[thiosk]

This is fine, so long as the "mexican" students do not wear mexican flag shirts to schools and school sponsored sport events. If they do, and thats not banned, thats totally lame. I have no problem with infringing on the rights of students. Hell, I think high school students should be caned (arbitrarily) and forced to wear burka-style school uniforms. Boys and girls.