Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.

Char-Nobyl

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Kitsuna10060 said:
95% white up here. i am not joking when i say i am surprised to see a black or any other ethnic group up here, though for me to go 'eeyup, illegal' they pretty much have to start talking
Wait, what? So that's your system? How they sound determines whether or not they're illegal immigrants? How does that make any sense?

Kitsuna10060 said:
ah, sorry, given your prior argument of how cheap they work for,
So you hate capitalism? That's not a "You disagree with me because you hate freedom" sort of answer, either. If you despise someone because they can do the same work that you do for less money, you are hating the essence of capitalism. The Irish worked for less money than 'native' citizens when they first showed up. Should we have kicked them out of the country, too?

Kitsuna10060 said:
and how many legal citizens are out of work and losing every thing,
Alright, then tell me: what sort of jobs do illegal immigrants usually take? And then tell me what job sectors are suffering in the economic recession.

Last I checked, the sort of jobs that illegal immigrants are taking are exactly the sort of jobs the baby boomer generation raised their kids to think were something to be ashamed of. Anything in the food industry, anything that needs a uniform...it's one of that generations greatest faults. But that aside, what job fields do you think are being hurt by the presence of illegal workers?

Kitsuna10060 said:
that's the big one right now (even if the actually fualt for that situation isn't their fault, that the blame for that lies in DC and the corporate board room, but they aren't helping matters) which is sadly all i got :/
In the same sense that the people starving to death "aren't helping matters" during a famine.

Kitsuna10060 said:
yeah >.> i know that's a slippery slope there, i was hesitant to put it in, but, I'd rather be honest then PC.
*facepalm* The slippery-slope argument isn't about political correctness: it's a logical fallacy. The same logic as what you're using here is what would dictate that, say, someone who smokes cannabis will definitely be shooting heroin into their eyeballs within a month of first lighting up.

Kitsuna10060 said:
what i meant was it'll take a lot to change my mind :p even cement is breakable with enough persistence. how old did you think i was :p
Thirty. Because you said "30 years of upbringing," and that wouldn't make any sort of sense unless you were somehow bigoted before you were even conceived.

Kitsuna10060 said:
sadly true but, i've never had any long last good interactions with this group, the friends i had turned on me, for no reason i can even now figure out, they whine about rights and heritage, then turn around on piss all over those same things, not to mention bad mouthing whites and demanding a hand out at the same time.

though I'm hoping in all honesty it just the ones up here that suck and not all of them.
...and you don't think that it's at all possible that your rather abrasive personality when it comes to race-relations might've soured your interactions with other ethnicities?

Kitsuna10060 said:
i should hope they want to be legal, and yes i do understand, if only a little how bad it is down there, it not the kinda thing we should be (but seem to be) turning a blind eye to. the laws are there for a reason, and as much as it sucks down there, it does not make it ok to break them.
Really? "The laws are there for a reason"? Yeah, they're there for a reason, and that reason is people put them there. US immigration laws weren't discovered chiseled on ancient tablets or in some sort of divine edict. If we don't like them, we can change them.

And frankly, even if you've had bad experiences with other races, we wouldn't be having those sort of issues nearly to the same degree if we didn't keep giving them reason to think they're being discriminated against. You can't say in good conscience that Mexican-Americans enjoy all the rights of white Americans while Arizona is passing laws that say that United States citizens can be detained without charge because they had the poor sense to look Mexican and didn't carry their passport with them.

Volf99 said:
I fully acknowledge that the American students have a "certain motive". I just feel that their are Mexican students with the same "certain motive", and I think it is naive to think that while one group of teenage guys have a "certain motive" while the other one doesn't (I realize I'm ignoring girls and being sexist, but being a guy myself I'm speaking from personal experience).
Erm...yes. Yes, they did have a motive. To celebrate an important holiday.

Volf99 said:
As I have said before, there is a time and a place. If I was a high school student that transferred to an English high school and I had school in July (I don't know if they have summer vocation) , I would celebrate the 4th of July AFTER school, not during.
Except that A) the "If I were there, I would have XXXX" answers are usually irrelevant, and B) England doesn't have a large American immigrant population. California does. In a lot of public school districts, you wouldn't think that America was predominantly white if you used it as a sample group. And C) Cinco de Mayo isn't a holiday commemorating Mexico's secession from American rule, followed by a war that Mexico won. Did you forget what the Fourth of July was about?
 

Asmundr

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Something like this happened in my high school a while back. Now while I'm not offended by the fact that they are showing pride in their country and heritage I am absolutely pissed as why we couldn't do the same.

To me it seems the schools that are doing this are catering to one side...
- It is freedom of speech, expression, etc. for Mexican / Latin American's to display their flag and national pride.
- Its oppressive, racist, offensive, etc. and etc. if American's do the same?

The previous year, in 2009, a group of Mexican students marked the holiday by walking around campus holding a Mexican flag. A group of white students responded by hanging a makeshift American flag from a tree and chanting "USA." According to the Chronicle, tensions flared and the two groups faced off with profanity and threats.

Little wonder that when some students showed up at school wearing T-shirts with American flags on them administrators decided to err on the side of caution.
So wait...if the school was doing this in response to an incident that happened earlier why not bar BOTH sides? Why only the Americans? Thats a bit unfair.

I can understand why the school wanted to be cautious. No school administrator wants a fight to break out.
But it is very unfair for one side. What happened to our rights? Or is it because if you tell the Mexican students that they couldn't do the same you'll be sued for racism? And telling the American students not to wear the U.S. flag is okay? I would love to understand their reasoning to this because right now I can only speculate.

If their school wanted to prevent racially to nationally charged violence or tensions then they should have told both groups that they cannot display their flag. Now while that alone is SEVERAL kinds of wrong it is at least fair to both sides. But telling the students that wore the American flag that they had to turn their shirts inside out...thats just unfair in my opinion.

Such an action will not prevent further tensions between both sides from escalating but only serve to fuel them. It will create an "Us vs. Them" mentality in the students who wore the American flag and felt punished by the school admins. That is, if such tension were ever that bad. For all we know the story was just embellished and hyped and the school paranoid of a lawsuit. You can never tell with news now-a-days.

The schools handling with that affair was bad but unsurprising.
 

Lunar Templar

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Char-Nobyl said:
you do relies we're going around in circles at this point, more over I'm kinda done with this conversation, save 1 part
Char-Nobyl said:
Kitsuna10060 said:
sadly true but, i've never had any long last good interactions with this group, the friends i had turned on me, for no reason i can even now figure out, they whine about rights and heritage, then turn around on piss all over those same things, not to mention bad mouthing whites and demanding a hand out at the same time.

though I'm hoping in all honesty it just the ones up here that suck and not all of them.
...and you don't think that it's at all possible that your rather abrasive personality when it comes to race-relations might've soured your interactions with other ethnicities?
while I'm perfect willing to humor your other arguments on 'racism' matters, here however, you have NO leg to stand on. i was a lot younger back then and opinions hadn't been formed, it was the personal interactions the soured ME to them. the only 'thing' i did wrong with them was not having the ..... whatever ..... to be born one of them. so tell me how that is deserving of having some one who was your friend one day be your enemy the next.

also, don't act like you know me after a few posts, cause you don't. my 'opinions' tend to be layered, and even contradict each other at times, and would take a lot more time to fully explain then I'm willing to give on an internet forum that's mostly video game related. (case your wondering, yeah 'acting like you know me' is a short way to really piss me off)
 

Char-Nobyl

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Kitsuna10060 said:
Char-Nobyl said:
you do relies we're going around in circles at this point, more over I'm kinda done with this conversation, save 1 part
...which part? Because you removed about 90% of my post in that 'snip.'

Kitsuna10060 said:
while I'm perfect willing to humor your other arguments on 'racism' matters, here however, you have NO leg to stand on. i was a lot younger back then and opinions hadn't been formed, it was the personal interactions the soured ME to them. the only 'thing' i did wrong with them was not having the ..... whatever ..... to be born one of them. so tell me how that is deserving of having some one who was your friend one day be your enemy the next.
And yet you think that telling a vague anecdote gives you a "leg to stand on" for this? Because all you've said to 'refute' my hypothesis is claim that the blame didn't lie with you, and blames others for your opinions.

Kitsuna10060 said:
also, don't act like you know me after a few posts, cause you don't.
Uh-huh. Is it at all telling that the last person I heard the phrase "You don't know me" from was some crazy chick on a clip from Jerry Springer?

Kitsuna10060 said:
my 'opinions' tend to be layered, and even contradict each other at times, and would take a lot more time to fully explain then I'm willing to give on an internet forum that's mostly video game related.
That's a bit of a cop-out, isn't it? You took the time to post your opinions, and instead of answering my responses, you're saying that your opinions are too complicated to be understood.

Kitsuna10060 said:
(case your wondering, yeah 'acting like you know me' is a short way to really piss me off)
Except that I'm only making assertions based on what you've already told me. You mentioned 'thirty years of upbringing,' so I assumed you were thirty. You talk about inflammatory opinions regarding Central/South American citizens, and then you talk about how every relationship you had with one went (pardon the pun) south. Is it really that much of a stretch to assume (especially when you didn't give me a time frame) that it could have been the aforementioned opinions that caused these relations to tank?
 

Lunar Templar

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Char-Nobyl said:
Kitsuna10060 said:
Char-Nobyl said:
you do relies we're going around in circles at this point, more over I'm kinda done with this conversation, save 1 part
...which part? Because you removed about 90% of my post in that 'snip.'
pretty much all of it,

Kitsuna10060 said:
while I'm perfect willing to humor your other arguments on 'racism' matters, here however, you have NO leg to stand on. i was a lot younger back then and opinions hadn't been formed, it was the personal interactions the soured ME to them. the only 'thing' i did wrong with them was not having the ..... whatever ..... to be born one of them. so tell me how that is deserving of having some one who was your friend one day be your enemy the next.
And yet you think that telling a vague anecdote gives you a "leg to stand on" for this? Because all you've said to 'refute' my hypothesis is claim that the blame didn't lie with you, and blames others for your opinions. [/quote]
so.... forming an opinion based on experiences is no longer valid? cause, that's pretty much what you said, and hows that even work, you can't form a valid opinion about anything with out experience, be it direct (interacting with the person/place/thing), or indirect (like reading up on a subject)

Kitsuna10060 said:
also, don't act like you know me after a few posts, cause you don't.
Uh-huh. Is it at all telling that the last person I heard the phrase "You don't know me" from was some crazy chick on a clip from Jerry Springer? [/quote]
wow .... weakest reponce to anything i've seen on this site, and its a fucking FACT, you don't know shit about me,

Kitsuna10060 said:
my 'opinions' tend to be layered, and even contradict each other at times, and would take a lot more time to fully explain then I'm willing to give on an internet forum that's mostly video game related.
That's a bit of a cop-out, isn't it? You took the time to post your opinions, and instead of answering my responses, you're saying that your opinions are too complicated to be understood. [/quote]
uh huh ... now your putting words in my mouth, pushen pretty hard to piss me off aren't you. and there not 'to compilicated to understand', sure they'd make perfect sense if i laid it all out in full, but you 'assertions' are doing more to get on my nerves and like every thing else that gets on my nerves/don't like, i distance my self from them

Kitsuna10060 said:
(case your wondering, yeah 'acting like you know me' is a short way to really piss me off)
Except that I'm only making assertions based on what you've already told me. You mentioned 'thirty years of upbringing,' so I assumed you were thirty. You talk about inflammatory opinions regarding Central/South American citizens, and then you talk about how every relationship you had with one went (pardon the pun) south. Is it really that much of a stretch to assume (especially when you didn't give me a time frame) that it could have been the aforementioned opinions that caused these relations to tank?[/quote]

o.0? wtf ARE you talking about, i don't know any one of Latino decent on a personal level, that's you assuming i was talking about them, and, i wasn't. i left the group unnamed out of tact :p (cute pun though)

so ... your assuming i've always had these opinions then? instead of asking about time frames your just assuming -.-
 

Char-Nobyl

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Kitsuna10060 said:
pretty much all of it,
Whatever. I'm in no mood to hit my head against a brick wall, so I'll move on.

Kitsuna10060 said:
so.... forming an opinion based on experiences is no longer valid? cause, that's pretty much what you said, and hows that even work, you can't form a valid opinion about anything with out experience, be it direct (interacting with the person/place/thing), or indirect (like reading up on a subject)
Forming opinions based on experiences is fine. But if you expect others to buy into them, you better come with something more than just hearsay.

Kitsuna10060 said:
uh huh ... now your putting words in my mouth, pushen pretty hard to piss me off aren't you. and there not 'to compilicated to understand', sure they'd make perfect sense if i laid it all out in full,
Then...why aren't you? No sarcasm/snark intended. I'm genuinely asking.

Kitsuna10060 said:
but you 'assertions' are doing more to get on my nerves and like every thing else that gets on my nerves/don't like, i distance my self from them
...this just baffles me. What are you distancing yourself from? Your opinions? Or...my assertions? I'm not even sure how that's supposed to work.

Kitsuna10060 said:
o.0? wtf ARE you talking about, i don't know any one of Latino decent on a personal level, that's you assuming i was talking about them, and, i wasn't. i left the group unnamed out of tact :p (cute pun though)
*facepalm* I'm going to give back one of your quotes. I'll even link to the original post:
Kitsuna10060 said:
sadly true but, i've never had any long last good interactions with this group, the friends i had turned on me, for no reason i can even now figure out, they whine about rights and heritage, then turn around on piss all over those same things, not to mention bad mouthing whites and demanding a hand out at the same time.
So what is it, then? Did you know Latin-Americans that soured your opinion to their entire demographic? Or have you never had extended interactions with a Latin-American in your life, which would make your assumption that they're all crime-prone illegals even more unjustified?

Kitsuna10060 said:
so ... your assuming i've always had these opinions then? instead of asking about time frames your just assuming -.-
I'm "assuming" because you gave time frames. Want me to quote you on the "30 years of upbringing" thing, too? Because unless I show you your words as you wrote them, you'll just complain that I'm "putting words in [your] mouth."