Don't wear the American Flag on your shirt in California schools, you might offend the Mexicans.

Apocalypse0Child

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May 21, 2009
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I'm very anti-patriotism, but this is just bullshit, basically.
You move to their country, you expect their lifestyle and yet you refuse to appreciate/accept their values? Then fuck off back to where you come from.

I'm not being racist, although I'm sure someone will happily throw that at me, but being an immigrant myself, you just have to get the fuck over it.
 

Smagmuck_

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Aug 25, 2009
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Fagotto said:
Le Snip of "Ignorance"
First off, I have nothing against debating, it's healthy for the human mind and development.

But I have to point this out. You have provided nothing to the argument at hand. As far as I've seen coming from you, are insults to other users because they've proved you wrong. And this is coming from a (soon to be) registered Democrat. It's good to have a differing opinion that the majority. But flat out insulting someone because they have valid points? That's fucking disgusting and it needs to stop.

Oh, and one question. What do you even think of this issue? I'm generally curious.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Fagotto said:
Therumancer said:
snip conspiracy theory
Just because it happens more than once in different contexts doesn't mean the incidents are connected. I never claimed it was the only occurrence ever. It just has nothing to do with those other ones.
It does, immigrants trying to get the US flag banned in the US has been an ongoing war for years now. Your looking at seperate battles, but they are all connected as they all come down to the same basic issues... and the same question as to whether it's appropriate to ban the US flag from being displayed in the US.

You'll also notice that the players are generally the same with the complaints almost universally coming from Mexicans.

As I said in another post, nobody would give a flying crap about Cinco De Mayo if it was just treated as a bit of a cultural festival with perhaps a few extra things being said about Mexican history, how the actual battle it celebrates affected the US, and people might do something like wear a sarape or mini-sombraro occasionally. Similar to say Saint Patrick's day or Oktoberfest (which was the intent when the holiday was officially embrased by the US in 2005... and this is mentioned in the Cinco De Mayo page on wikipedia).

The thing is that the holiday has become increasingly about Mexican superiority, and gotten tied into things like the Mexican-American war and how a lot of Mexicans believe that they should actually own a good portion of the south and southwestern US to begin with. With all the immigrants in the area there is some tendency to want to treat Americans as the invaders, especially when the numbers are large enough. A *LOT* has been said about this beyond this holiday especially when you look at all the gang violence and such in the region, it's just that it comes to a head on Cinco De Mayo despite all intents, and that's why violence is feared because "you will not show your flag on our day" with the people in question rather clearly not identifying with the US. No xenophobia, no racism, just a pure statement of fact. Read about the various gang wars and such down there, heck a lot was said about it on these forums back when they were planning the modern-era "Call Of Juarez" game, given how the warfare down in that area spills over into Texas and so on. It does make the news.

Believe it or not I'm a fairly tolerant person, but when it comes down to students not being able to wear or fly the US flag in US schools, I don't care what the reasons are. I'll also be honest in saying that one of the reasons why the issue recurs is that in the US we don't know how to end an issue. If a group of people want to persist for attention they will eventually succeed because they usually just have to win once for precedent. It's sort of a power play, and pretty much every year for the last couple of years we've been getting cases of pressure/threats of violence leading to an attempted flag ban, and as you can see from the case with the biker escort they usually lose. This year (even if it's a spillover from last year) it succeeded and that's frankly ridiculous.

It's as much a power thing overall, as it is due to any specific incidents... and there IS a sort of civil movement to try and "take back" land for Mexico through social inertia. There was an Absolute Vodka commercial a couple years ago that wound up getting banned a couple of years ago that had a "perfect world" motif where it showed a map with Mexico occupying not just it's own land but like half of what is now the US. That being an advertising attempt should pretty much give some insights as to the attitudes of the people being dealt with, as well as the numbers.

Here is an article about it:

http://bigthink.com/ideas/21316

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trD6ksMWLhs

There are also various videos of the commercial itself.

At any rate, the very fact that this has appeal with Mexicans for it to have been an ad campaign despite hoe it backfired when the US found out about it, is simply a point I'm making to show the mentalities/issues involved in these incidents. It might not be pleasant to think about, but yeah... let's just say getting the US flag banned in the US is not the result of a few individual jerkoffs and a bad reaction, stuff like this has been ongoing, this is one recurring front, and ther are others.
 

Doc Cannon

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Feb 3, 2010
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I don't like a lot of what I'm reading here.
From what I've seen in Wikipedia more than 50% of Mexicans in the US are legal, and if someone is a legal immigrant, they have the same rights you have.
Yet people react to the mention of Mexicans like they were all criminals.

(And of course, if I wanted to get myself flamed I'd go on about how the US has so much immigration because of their foreign policies).
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Fagotto said:
Therumancer said:
bunch of tripe that would require me to just trust you
No, I'm not going to just trust your word. I wonder at your inability to learn that I'm not going to just take what you say as true. I would think my previous posts would make it rather clear, but apparently not. You make a lot of claims, you provide no proof of them. "It's an ongoing war!" == You sound like those nutters who complain about a war on Christmas to me.

.
Alright, I'm done. I've provided links and everything else. I've been watching some of your other messages, and was hoping you'd turn out to be more than just a troll, but really that's all you are.

Simply put all your doing is argueing without logic to try and see how long you can keep it going. I should have caught on the first time I suspected this.
 

Smagmuck_

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Aug 25, 2009
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Fagotto said:
Smagmuck_ said:
Fagotto said:
How hard is it for ignorant fools such as yourself to admit you're wrong? No really, I'm actually wanting to know this.
You missed the step where you provide actual proof I'm wrong.

Seeing as you seem to lack the basic human function to tell that you've lost. And yet here you are, claiming that you know everything when all you're proving is that you're being an incompetent dick. Now, I really hate stooping to your level, I really do. But if someone's going to get through your thick "intelligent" skull about how wrong you are, I guess they have to. Now, before you decide to quote me, taking my words out of context and saying that I'm a Nationalist Pig, when I'm not, listen to this.
*yawn*

Your proof. It's still missing.

Go on, say I'm wrong. Use you're so called "Fact" to dispute this. And if you decide to retort with insults, which you're most likely going to do, you're only going to prove me right and make yourself look even more arrogant.
You're wrong. Okay, done. It's not hard to say when you only have a bunch of gibberish thrown at me trying to insult me without any actual critique of my arguments.

And a message to the mods, please understand that a lot of us have had enough of this person. If I get some form of discipline for it, so be it. I'm only pointing out how much of a fool he's being, nothing more, nothing less.
Oh, you think you're just playing the good guy so you can ignore the rules. Well I'm sure we'll see how that goes over.
Hey thanks! I knew I was right! Thanks for my proof there, sport!
 

Captain Booyah

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Apr 19, 2010
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Dark Harbinger said:
jaded zombie said:
Dark Harbinger said:
it's all well and good for immigrants to parade around the streets proclaiming their religious dominance, waving their flags and chanting death to the west.
wtf?
yeah, cuz every immigrant is a terrorist cell waiting to happen...
From what I've seen over the years, they've yet to prove me wrong.
Oh, don't be ridiculous -- every immigrant is a terrorist or a criminal waiting to happen? All of them? I sincerely hope you know what they say about sweeping generalisations and intelligence. Most of the scumbags on the news have been home-grown right here in bloody England anyway, so do you want to take the stand and explain that one? The reason they've "yet to prove you wrong" is because the media doesn't exactly publicise the immigrants that conduct themselves as ordinary citizens in an ordinary society, although you obviously haven't caught onto that.
 

F-I-D-O

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Feb 18, 2010
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Dags90 said:
Well, I'm glad to have been proven right in my guess that this was legal when this story first cropped up.

School children don't have absolute free speech, if the school can prove that the shirts are disruptive (say, for inciting ethnic tensions), then they can be told not to wear them. I think it's silly to conflate what are clearly ethnic tensions with patriotism. They didn't wear American flags because they were proud of their country. They wore them to antagonize Mexican-American students who were celebrating something they didn't happen to be a part of. It's a terrible and offensive use of the flag.

I should also note, that it was once considered wildly inappropriate, and gauche to print an American flag decoration on any item of clothing. I still think of it as kind of tacky, it's a gross form of plastic patriotism.

It's also in the Flag Code, which is strictly voluntary, but I wonder if any of these alleged patriots have ever read it.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general
You do realize that refers to the flag itself, not an image of the flag. This is why the national museums (they kind of have to follow the flag code) sell buttons/t-shirts with the flag on them. It is perfectly fine to wear a piece of clothing with the flag, but if you use the flag as clothing (say, wear it like one would wear a toga), then you are breaking the flag code (a jail-able offense in some states). Also, you're interpretation would prevent troops from having the flag patches on the shoulders of their uniforms, and would prevent the President from wearing an american flag pin (because both patches and pins are apparel).

I see where the school is coming from, but this seems a bit extreme. If there was violence in the past there would be a reason. But just because some jerks decided to shout USA last year shouldn't prevent people from expressing nationalism. Let the Cinco de Mayo (which isn't actually the day mexico gained independence, just the celebrated day) celebrators wear what they want (as long as it's not obscene) and let the American Flag t-shirts be worn.
 

KouThan

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Jan 3, 2011
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It seems to me that in modern day "democracy" minorities have more power than the actual majority of the population.
 

F-I-D-O

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Feb 18, 2010
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Fagotto said:
F-I-D-O said:
I see where the school is coming from, but this seems a bit extreme. If there was violence in the past there would be a reason. But just because some jerks decided to shout USA last year shouldn't prevent people from expressing nationalism. Let the Cinco de Mayo (which isn't actually the day mexico gained independence, just the celebrated day) celebrators wear what they want (as long as it's not obscene) and let the American Flag t-shirts be worn.
Why allow a display that is meant to provoke others at a school? Or can at least reasonably be construed as such given what happened just the year before?
I assume some people did it on coincidence. I've worn a free shirt from a different university when on college tours. Not meaning to say anything, just grabbing what's on top of the pile.
However, using clothing choice as a means to instigate a problem, well, people are going to try to start a fight wherever they can. If they don't wear the shirts, they just yell USA. If they can't do that, they make signs, etc. IF a child has been caught trying to start a fight, or has a history of causing problems then they get punished/censored. A normal kid just walking into school? Maybe not so much.
 

asacatman

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Aug 2, 2008
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Frost27 said:
Okay, bro, I'm not reading through ten pages of annoying racial tension to see if anyone else said this, but you really, really, really, should have put the thing about the time last year when a group of kids started showing the american flag and there was violence.

Jesus.

It's a huge part of the context of the story, and most people don't bother to read the article, but just your biased OP and come out with an incorrect view of the topic.

Reagardless of your view of the event, next time you a make a post about a sensitive issue like race and identity, where context matters so much, remember to put in the full story.

Cheers.