Another episode that hangs on Capaldi's acting and that's not bad thing. A large number of loose ends tied up cleverly and one or two new ones added. I sniff a possible spin off in the wind, one not constrained by having a superhuman to jam up the works. Something with a possibility of failure, which is feeling that has been missing to one extent or another in the new run. On balance I have liked this run and they have dropped the action and upped the actual characterization. The trailer for the christmas special looked fun, anything with Greg Davies can't be all bad.
Dr Who : Hell Bent
- Thread starter Albino Boo
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Capaldi has developed excellently,
they show is going strong with excellent performances
and Capaldi bringing alittle of himself into the doctor
they show is going strong with excellent performances
and Capaldi bringing alittle of himself into the doctor
Q: What is the 'Fast/Furious Effect'?
A: When a new episode/finale retroactively makes previous episodes better.
-SEE: Doctor Who: Hell Bent
OT?
Yeah...this was kind of, unexpectedly, great.
Totally dug it, even if bits were a bit...Moffat.
Loved the twist towards the end, and even the shout out to the Doctor Who movie of the 90s.
Can't wait to see if there's a spin-off, maybe with The Doctor's Daughter, and next season.
Next, more pre-death River.
So, yeah?
A: When a new episode/finale retroactively makes previous episodes better.
-SEE: Doctor Who: Hell Bent
OT?
Yeah...this was kind of, unexpectedly, great.
Totally dug it, even if bits were a bit...Moffat.
Loved the twist towards the end, and even the shout out to the Doctor Who movie of the 90s.
Can't wait to see if there's a spin-off, maybe with The Doctor's Daughter, and next season.
Next, more pre-death River.
So, yeah?
I think this episode is possibly my favourite of Capaldi's run so far. Really liked seeing more of Gallifrey, really hope we get to see more of it in future episodes. Also Peter Capaldi was just exceptional, absolutely fantastic acting throughout. Only minor letdowns for me were no Timothy Dalton, more Clara (never been a fan of hers), and yet more walking round in sunglasses with an electric guitar.
That last point has been part of a recurring irritation for me, it's like someone's trying too hard to emulate some idea of coolness. Riding a t-rex around London? That'd be cool! How about making an entrance on a tank playing guitar to an arena? Super cool! Cyborg cowboys? Mega cool! Dinosaurs on a spaceship? Super mega cool!
That last point has been part of a recurring irritation for me, it's like someone's trying too hard to emulate some idea of coolness. Riding a t-rex around London? That'd be cool! How about making an entrance on a tank playing guitar to an arena? Super cool! Cyborg cowboys? Mega cool! Dinosaurs on a spaceship? Super mega cool!
I'm confused, what's wrong with the prospect of a female doctor? Seems like they just double their pool of talent to draw from for future casting. Also not sure why people had a problem with Missy, Michelle Gomez did a great job imo (although admittedly I think I preferred John Simm's portrayal slightly more).The_Kodu said:
It's possible that it's the other way round- the tardis just chose to imitate a regular diner from the Doctor's past. Not sure what deeper significance it could provide really given how long ago that story was and how neatly it got tied up.
You know what I liked about this finale?
all in all this has probably been my favorite season of the revived series
For once it wasn't some end of the world/galaxy/universe/time itself spectacle but just The Doctor wanting to save his friend and to hell with the consequences, and it didn't try to sell his actions as good and right but it was made very clear that he is 100% in the wrong here, and that he was being incredibly selfish and irresponsible
all in all this has probably been my favorite season of the revived series
Romana didn't leave the Doctor to become the head the timelords. Romana was recalled to Gallifrey but she refused to go. Instead Romana left the Doctor at the end of the Warrior's Gate story and she and K9 stayed in E-space. The story about Romana becoming Lord President only appeared in books. The last TV sighing of Romana was the Dr leaving Romana in another dimension, to which access was closing.The_Kodu said:
The Shada web serial is reworking of a 7th Dr story that was never finished due to strike action. The original Shada was due to be shown as the end of season 17 and Romana left halfway through season 18. I have the significant advantage when it comes to old Who of being old enough to watch it when it was first broadcast.The_Kodu said:
What's particularly annoying about this is that the Master's character has completely changed in the process. In the past he was always scheming to seize power for himself and occasionally trying to kill the Doctor. In the last classic episode I watched the Master was trying to strangle the Doctor to death with some kind of remote controlled telephone cord.The_Kodu said:
Missy's motivation though is entirely based on the Doctor, whether it's building an army for him, getting worried and looking for him when he goes missing, or whatever the latest plot was all about. There always seemed to be the suggestion that the Doctor and the Master had been friends to some degree, but Missy is basically just obsessed with the guy. Like a really evil Amy Pond or Clara.
Anyway, the last episode was a big disappointment, it left like Moffatt is making sure that Clara is the Best Companion Ever. And yet another total cop out when it comes to a character dying. How is the audience supposed to take these story arcs seriously when they all end like this?
The_Kodu said:
Well the Dr Who "cannon" has always been flexible, they have ignored bits of the broadcast show when it suited them. In general anything not broadcast on TV can and will be ignored by the current writers when they want. Much of the published material between the end of old Who and the new Who was contradictory anyway. The BBC didn't care that much and exercised no editorial control so the writers of books, comics and audio plays all did what they wanted. This led to be big mess of unresolved continuity errors, which the BBC have, in the best Dr Who style, just ignored.
I'm surprised to see so much positive reception for the episode, but then again I've been surprised at the positive reception for the entirety of Moffat's run leading the show. As is the case for all of the Moffat-lead episodes, I thought that despite a couple of cool moments here or there, it was awful overall.
Going from everyone else's discussions, though, I'd agree that the "look, DIVERSITY!" regeneration seemed kind of tacked on and stupid. Also, I hated what Moffat did to the Master as well.
I never heard of the Rani, though; I'll have to look that up. (and I've seen just about all of the old doctor who that's available these days; can't believe how much was lost in BBC warehouse fires)
Going from everyone else's discussions, though, I'd agree that the "look, DIVERSITY!" regeneration seemed kind of tacked on and stupid. Also, I hated what Moffat did to the Master as well.
I never heard of the Rani, though; I'll have to look that up. (and I've seen just about all of the old doctor who that's available these days; can't believe how much was lost in BBC warehouse fires)
So, saw the episode. It's overall solid, but I'm left bugged at the ending aspects. E.g.
-So Rassilon was always Maester Luwin, even in Day of the Doctor. I thought that more or less established them as separate individuals.
-The prophecy states that the hybrid will stand in the ruins of Galifrey. Which is what the Doctor, Ashildr, and Clara all do. It feels like they're still pushing the mystery when they don't need to. Whoever, or whatever the hybrid is, the prophecy's come to pass. They've stood in Galifrey's ruins.
-Likewise, I dislike how they seem to be dragging Ashildr and Clara's story out. This is subjective, but Clara accepting her death rather than taking "the long way round" would be far more satisfactory to me, rather than some convoluted reason as to why one has to forget the other. Likewise, Ashildr. I like her character, but the idea of her accepting the end of her life at the end of the universe feels far more thematically appropriate to me than her escaping it, no doubt to be brought back later. Yes, I realize that both of these are the theme of accepting death (maybe I'm just feeling morbid), but the whole second TARDIS thing feels like a copout. River's been accused of being too like the Doctor. We haven't heard anything from Jenny who's also exploring space, if not time. And now we have Clara and Ashildr doing the same thing.
-On the plus side, finally we get the sonic screwdriver back.
Overall, season's been solid, probably the best of Moffet's run. The Twelfth Doctor's certainly clicked with me, and I'm left to reflect how Eleven never did.
-So Rassilon was always Maester Luwin, even in Day of the Doctor. I thought that more or less established them as separate individuals.
-The prophecy states that the hybrid will stand in the ruins of Galifrey. Which is what the Doctor, Ashildr, and Clara all do. It feels like they're still pushing the mystery when they don't need to. Whoever, or whatever the hybrid is, the prophecy's come to pass. They've stood in Galifrey's ruins.
-Likewise, I dislike how they seem to be dragging Ashildr and Clara's story out. This is subjective, but Clara accepting her death rather than taking "the long way round" would be far more satisfactory to me, rather than some convoluted reason as to why one has to forget the other. Likewise, Ashildr. I like her character, but the idea of her accepting the end of her life at the end of the universe feels far more thematically appropriate to me than her escaping it, no doubt to be brought back later. Yes, I realize that both of these are the theme of accepting death (maybe I'm just feeling morbid), but the whole second TARDIS thing feels like a copout. River's been accused of being too like the Doctor. We haven't heard anything from Jenny who's also exploring space, if not time. And now we have Clara and Ashildr doing the same thing.
-On the plus side, finally we get the sonic screwdriver back.
Overall, season's been solid, probably the best of Moffet's run. The Twelfth Doctor's certainly clicked with me, and I'm left to reflect how Eleven never did.
Kind of annoying how the Doctor doesnt seem to give a shit about
Returning to Gallifrey. I mean its something that should be a huge deal, why isnt it a huge deal?
Also both of the 'Torchwood gauntlets' were seen in Torchwood and were destroyed during its run:jab136 said:
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Resurrection_gauntlet
For those who don't want to read that whole thing:
The first gauntlet (the right one) was the one they'd been using to revive people and was eventually destroyed by Tosh when Suzie tried to use it to drain Gwen's life force so she could come back to life. The second gauntlet (the left one) was the one that brought Owen back to life as a zombie and was destroyed by Owen after it animated and attacked Martha.
Rassilon's Gauntlet, meanwhile, was first seen several years ago in the whole storyline with the resurrected Master and the return of Gallifrey.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Rassilon's_gauntlet
As far as this episode goes...I think it was stronger than MOST of the series, but I actually think the episode prior to this one was the strongest of this series and this was a bit of a step down. I never really took to the whole Ashildr thing. It felt overly like hammering some point or other home.
On the whole I've felt this series was rather weak. But at least it finished reasonably strong on the last two episodes. Though frankly I don't blame any of the actors at all. Capaldi in particular has gone from strength to strength for me but I just find what he's given to work with just isn't all that great most of the time.
One thing that annoys me is how the people of gallefreys main goal of escaping a pocket dimension, set up as plot points in the 50th anniversary and the 11th doctors final episode is seemingly discarded out of no where. It feels silly that this season they are now hell bent on discovering the identity of a hybrid rather than returning to this dimension.
It just feels like gallefrey was made the enemy this season for "reasons", and now any motivation the doctor would have for discovering the planets location is lost since now he holds a grudge against the higher ups of gallefrey for what they did to him.
Besides what I mentioned above the episode itself was pretty alright. It feels kind of nice to see a season finale where the universe didn't need to be saved again (although it kinda did if the doctor kept up with his plans to save Clara).
The idea that the whole situation was orchestrated by missy was an interesting thought as well, with the idea that the doctor caring about a companion too much and be willing to destroy the universe for their safe return is a really long con on missys' part.
I also liked how Me and Clara were together the thing that the doctor should not have as a companion, if you think back the reason the doctor didn't want Me to join him is due the fact that two effective immortals traveling together is dangerous, likewise the doctor having a companion who has the same mentality as he does but is mortal, is also bad for him since it results in the situation of these final three episodes.
It just feels like gallefrey was made the enemy this season for "reasons", and now any motivation the doctor would have for discovering the planets location is lost since now he holds a grudge against the higher ups of gallefrey for what they did to him.
Besides what I mentioned above the episode itself was pretty alright. It feels kind of nice to see a season finale where the universe didn't need to be saved again (although it kinda did if the doctor kept up with his plans to save Clara).
The idea that the whole situation was orchestrated by missy was an interesting thought as well, with the idea that the doctor caring about a companion too much and be willing to destroy the universe for their safe return is a really long con on missys' part.
I also liked how Me and Clara were together the thing that the doctor should not have as a companion, if you think back the reason the doctor didn't want Me to join him is due the fact that two effective immortals traveling together is dangerous, likewise the doctor having a companion who has the same mentality as he does but is mortal, is also bad for him since it results in the situation of these final three episodes.