Dragon Age 2: The Straight Male and Gay Female romances suck

Belgian_Waffles

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Here ye be spoilers.
"Oh look another Dragon Age 2 thread it's not like we haven't seen a million of these hur hur hur hur..." I've got news for you buddy boy this is thread number one in a series of Dragon Age threads I have planned.
These threads are to be discussed with my fellow gamers and to come to as a unanimous as possible so it can be posted on Bioware's constructive critisism thread on their forums.
If you recognize my name it may be because I make quality threads (or so I've been told.) So stick along for the ride I might just open your mind a little.

Let me start by informing all of you that I'm straight, I played both my male Hawke and my female Hawke straight so I'm assuming that the gay female romances are the similar to the straight male romances. In my main playthrough my male Hawke romanced Isabella but this was due to her being the lesser of three evils. I'll start chronologically:

Aveline, now I'm sure my intital reaction was the same as most other people's: "My word, that woman isn't very attractive-- woah, that was pretty badass; oh I guess she's a party member now."
Aveline is average, she's a refuge who's trying to escape a desperate situation and trying to make the best of what has happened. She's lost her husband, she has no home, and she's barely scraping by with her guard job. She's very down to earth eventually getting over her husband's death and moving onto other pastures if you choose to leave her unromanced.
She's a bit of a bland character and she's not hot she's not even particularly good looking. On the other end of this spectrum the Females have Sebastian (exclusive I may add, he's the only 100% straight character in this game.) He's lost his ENTIRE family, has a thirst for vengance but is bound by his vows to The Chantry, he is of royal blood, and to top it all off he has one of the hardest moral decisions of Act 3. (It's criminal that 9 out of 10 players have to drop seven bucks for one of the Bioware's best written characters.) Aveline has a shallow threat of leaving you if you side with the mage's which is negated by the fact that it's ridiculously easy to max out her friend score any rival points can be easily regained by completing whatever quest that pissed her off.

Moving on, the romance that I pursued was Isabella.
Isabella is a slut, this was introuduced along with her debut in Dragon Age: Origins she was bi-sexual from the beginning which is more than I'll say for Anders (which I'll address in the Story thread.) I'll leave you with this; if you retcon a character's story just so you can add a gay option for him then there is something wrong with you writing team.
Isabella is arguably the only attractive female companion in your party in DA2, if you want to argue that I'm totally and undeniably wrong that's what this thread is for. Her personality is somewhat shallow, the pirate with a heart of gold. Bioware copy and pasted Captain Jack Sparrow and turned him into a chick with breasts larger than her head. It was a nice twist that she screws you over in Act 2 if you haven't totally friended or rivaled her by then but by then you should realize that the game was going to be bumpy if you haven't invested heavily in your companions. The one thing I like about Isabella is that she was written to be bi-sexual from the start and didn't just have the gay option stapled on at the end. Otherwise she's just a meh character.

Lastly I want to talk about Merril because she's a mixed bag.
I like Merril, hell she's a great companion I really wanted to romance her and the reason I didn't was not a fault of her character but Bioware's reworking of the series's art style. Seriously every Elf looks like an Albio Na'vi diagnosed with severe down's syndrome. (No offence intended to those who have or know somebody with down's syndrome but every Elf character has the defining head characteristic that let's you know that someone has the mental condition.)
Have a look yourself
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/150/f/2011/086/f/b/orsino_from_dragon_age_2_by_lucius007-d3cn8ki.jpg
http://bitpunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Merrill2.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110214144929/dragonage/images/b/b7/Hawkeandmerrill.jpg

If they had stuck with the Human with elf ears look of Dragon Age: Origins most people would have jumped for Merril instead of Isabella. Instead we have a character with stick thin legs and arms, a boney torso, and a head that is ridiculously out of proportion for its body.
Her story is unique but predictable only the most delusional would believe that her quest wouldn't land her with a first-class ticket on the plane to Fuckedville.
To wrap this up there is no strong female companion; Aveline is generic and unappealing to the eye, Isabella is a blatant character archtype, and Merril is plagued by poor artistic decisions.
 

Anah'ya

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Belgian_Waffles said:
n Dragon Age: Origins she was bi-sexual from the beginning which is more than I'll say for Anders (which I'll address in the Story thread.)

The one thing I like about Isabella is that she was written to be bi-sexual from the start and didn't just have the gay option stapled on at the end. Otherwise she's just a meh character.
I will not comment on the rest of the post, for it is built from personal opinion and opinions are a bad thing to base a discussion of, but please tell me one thing: Please tell me you are not trying to say Anders had the "gay" option "stapled on at the end".

For if that is what you are trying to get at, then I would recommend you play through Awakening, start to finish, with Anders in your group. As a male Warden. If you are not convinced by his actions and talking, make sure you max out his approval and that of every other character.

Then look at his character sheet. Hover over his approval-o meter. It will say "Friendly" for every other character aside from potential love interests or anyone who swings that way.

It does not say "Friendly" for Anders. If characterisation through dialogue and actions have not convinced you then, gameplay mechanics should.
 

Belgian_Waffles

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Anah said:
Belgian_Waffles said:
n Dragon Age: Origins she was bi-sexual from the beginning which is more than I'll say for Anders (which I'll address in the Story thread.)

The one thing I like about Isabella is that she was written to be bi-sexual from the start and didn't just have the gay option stapled on at the end. Otherwise she's just a meh character.
I will not comment on the rest of the post, for it is built from personal opinion and opinions are a bad thing to base a discussion of, but please tell me one thing: Please tell me you are not trying to say Anders had the "gay" option "stapled on at the end".

For if that is what you are trying to get at, then I would recommend you play through Awakening, start to finish, with Anders in your group. As a male Warden. If you are not convinced by his actions and talking, make sure you max out his approval and that of every other character.

Then look at his character sheet. Hover over his approval-o meter. It will say "Friendly" for every other character aside from potential love interests or anyone who swings that way.

It does not say "Friendly" for Anders. If characterisation through dialogue and actions have not convinced you then, gameplay mechanics should.
If I remember my playthrough correctly, Anders didn't hit on me in Awakenings and my warden was male.
And yes a discussion based on opinion is exactly what I want with this thread please express what you think tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm dead wrong.
 

Dr. Whiggs

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Anders is a needy *****, so I ain't going there.

I fucked that daft elf silly.

And I fucked the dude elf sillier.

And if I ever get so bored I go back I'm running a train on the whole goddamn party. Including the dwarf.

I'LL FIND A WAY.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
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Bioware have a really bad habit of making thier most likable character non LI's and I hate them for it. I tend to not make my characters have relationships in those games because I always feel like you come across as Socially Awkward Penguin. :< I mean Fenris or Anders? What Hawke can't get a guy who isn't emotionally damaged? *cough* Varric *cough*

Female Shepard sounds ridiculous when she tries to flirt and I'm much happier hanging around in the cockpit... with Joker....what :p

Lol Jacob with his bricklike personality... I was pretty sure ED-I was going to pinpoint the collector base location as inside his nostrils.
'No wonder a ship has never come back through the relay' *GASP.*
 

Anah'ya

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Jun 19, 2010
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Belgian_Waffles said:
Anah said:
Belgian_Waffles said:
n Dragon Age: Origins she was bi-sexual from the beginning which is more than I'll say for Anders (which I'll address in the Story thread.)

The one thing I like about Isabella is that she was written to be bi-sexual from the start and didn't just have the gay option stapled on at the end. Otherwise she's just a meh character.
I will not comment on the rest of the post, for it is built from personal opinion and opinions are a bad thing to base a discussion of, but please tell me one thing: Please tell me you are not trying to say Anders had the "gay" option "stapled on at the end".

For if that is what you are trying to get at, then I would recommend you play through Awakening, start to finish, with Anders in your group. As a male Warden. If you are not convinced by his actions and talking, make sure you max out his approval and that of every other character.

Then look at his character sheet. Hover over his approval-o meter. It will say "Friendly" for every other character aside from potential love interests or anyone who swings that way.

It does not say "Friendly" for Anders. If characterisation through dialogue and actions have not convinced you then, gameplay mechanics should.
If I remember my playthrough correctly, Anders didn't hit on me in Awakenings and my warden was male.
And yes a discussion based on opinion is exactly what I want with this thread please express what you think tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm dead wrong.
No, he does not hit on your male Gray Warden any more or less than he would on the female Gray Warden. Though that doesn't stop him from getting all "atingle" when you agree with him on a certain discussion. You are ignoring his behaviour, his talking and the big glaring LOVE in his approval-o meter if you get him friendly enough even as a burly bloke.

Anders swung both ways from the start, his whole character is screaming "I don't stop with the girls, and I'm having fun doing it."

It didn't take Dragon Age 2 to be around to realise that; BioWare made it blatantly obvious in Awakening already. Tacked on? No. Put into the foreground because he is now a romance-able character and was not in Awakening? Yes. It would have been more of an insult to his character if they had made him a straight choice, to be honest.

As for the rest of the post... huh.

Aveline? You cannot even romance Aveline. She is the Varric amongst the women. Not romanceable, no matter how hard you might want to try. I am not sure why you brought her into the discussion. She might be a shining example of just how far loyalty amongst friends will go (and that is what her character is all about, the steadfast dedication to Hawke while they both rise through the ranks in Kirkwall). Either way, she will turn Hawke down no matter what. And yes, you can try as a female as well, with the same result. Ah. I tried. She was by far my favourite just after Anders.

Sebastian was decent enough for a character; His struggle between the duty to his lands and his vows to the Chantry, paired with the smooth accent, made him interesting to have around. The close attachment to the Chantry made him particularly interesting when pitted against Anders. The potential (and eventually real) conflict between them was a nice touch, although it could have been explored in more detail.

Isabela... I do not like Isabela. Or better yet, I do not like the obvious front she is putting up. What I cannot agree with though is the reference to Cpt. Jack Sparrow. Sparrow is a trope in himself. He was not the first swashbuckler of this calibre. To say that Isabla and Jack are from the same ilk, yes that works. To say she is a copy of him, no. Jack is as much a copy of every 2nd pirate captain you will find in books heavily inclined towards romance. The swashbucklers are a working concept that has been with us for ages and I do not fault BioWare for using it. They gave her an edge of interest by making her show the desperation bubbling beneath the surface when the end of Act 2 comes around the corner.

Merrill and the design of the elves I can just not agree with straight out. I liked the design decisions BioWare took with both the Qunari and the elves. Both were giving more individuality and I can appreciate them moving the elves away from "beautiful humans with pointy ears" to "slightly alien, still captivating".
 

psicat

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Belgian_Waffles said:
Anah said:
Belgian_Waffles said:
n Dragon Age: Origins she was bi-sexual from the beginning which is more than I'll say for Anders (which I'll address in the Story thread.)

The one thing I like about Isabella is that she was written to be bi-sexual from the start and didn't just have the gay option stapled on at the end. Otherwise she's just a meh character.
I will not comment on the rest of the post, for it is built from personal opinion and opinions are a bad thing to base a discussion of, but please tell me one thing: Please tell me you are not trying to say Anders had the "gay" option "stapled on at the end".

For if that is what you are trying to get at, then I would recommend you play through Awakening, start to finish, with Anders in your group. As a male Warden. If you are not convinced by his actions and talking, make sure you max out his approval and that of every other character.

Then look at his character sheet. Hover over his approval-o meter. It will say "Friendly" for every other character aside from potential love interests or anyone who swings that way.

It does not say "Friendly" for Anders. If characterisation through dialogue and actions have not convinced you then, gameplay mechanics should.
If I remember my playthrough correctly, Anders didn't hit on me in Awakenings and my warden was male.
And yes a discussion based on opinion is exactly what I want with this thread please express what you think tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm dead wrong.
Perhaps it's just that there wasn't any attraction to the warden while there is meant to be an instant attraction to Hawke. I mean Isabella makes her interests overtly apparent since she flirts with anyone with a pulse and there is the opportunity for the warden an up to two companions to sleep with her in DA:O. But, Anders sexual orientation can be more open to interpretation since being bi-sexual doesn't automatically mean someone has to be a slut. So no overt sexual displays towards male characters in Awakenings doesn't mean Anders may not swing that way, he doesn't show any interest in a female warden either.
 

Belgian_Waffles

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Anah said:
Belgian_Waffles said:
Anah said:
Belgian_Waffles said:
n Dragon Age: Origins she was bi-sexual from the beginning which is more than I'll say for Anders (which I'll address in the Story thread.)

The one thing I like about Isabella is that she was written to be bi-sexual from the start and didn't just have the gay option stapled on at the end. Otherwise she's just a meh character.
I will not comment on the rest of the post, for it is built from personal opinion and opinions are a bad thing to base a discussion of, but please tell me one thing: Please tell me you are not trying to say Anders had the "gay" option "stapled on at the end".

For if that is what you are trying to get at, then I would recommend you play through Awakening, start to finish, with Anders in your group. As a male Warden. If you are not convinced by his actions and talking, make sure you max out his approval and that of every other character.

Then look at his character sheet. Hover over his approval-o meter. It will say "Friendly" for every other character aside from potential love interests or anyone who swings that way.

It does not say "Friendly" for Anders. If characterisation through dialogue and actions have not convinced you then, gameplay mechanics should.
If I remember my playthrough correctly, Anders didn't hit on me in Awakenings and my warden was male.
And yes a discussion based on opinion is exactly what I want with this thread please express what you think tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm dead wrong.
No, he does not hit on your male Gray Warden any more or less than he would on the female Gray Warden. Though that doesn't stop him from getting all "atingle" when you agree with him on a certain discussion. You are ignoring his behaviour, his talking and the big glaring LOVE in his approval-o meter if you get him friendly enough even as a burly bloke.

Anders swung both ways from the start, his whole character is screaming "I don't stop with the girls, and I'm having fun doing it."

It didn't take Dragon Age 2 to be around to realise that; BioWare made it blatantly obvious in Awakening already. Tacked on? No. Put into the foreground because he is now a romance-able character and was not in Awakening? Yes. It would have been more of an insult to his character if they had made him a straight choice, to be honest.

As for the rest of the post... huh.

Aveline? You cannot even romance Aveline. She is the Varric amongst the women. Not romanceable, no matter how hard you might want to try. I am not sure why you brought her into the discussion. She might be a shining example of just how far loyalty amongst friends will go (and that is what her character is all about, the steadfast dedication to Hawke while they both rise through the ranks in Kirkwall). Either way, she will turn Hawke down no matter what. And yes, you can try as a female as well, with the same result. Ah. I tried. She was by far my favourite just after Anders.

Sebastian was decent enough for a character; His struggle between the duty to his lands and his vows to the Chantry, paired with the smooth accent, made him interesting to have around. The close attachment to the Chantry made him particularly interesting when pitted against Anders. The potential (and eventually real) conflict between them was a nice touch, although it could have been explored in more detail.

Isabela... I do not like Isabela. Or better yet, I do not like the obvious front she is putting up. What I cannot agree with though is the reference to Cpt. Jack Sparrow. Sparrow is a trope in himself. He was not the first swashbuckler of this calibre. To say that Isabla and Jack are from the same ilk, yes that works. To say she is a copy of him, no. Jack is as much a copy of every 2nd pirate captain you will find in books heavily inclined towards romance. The swashbucklers are a working concept that has been with us for ages and I do not fault BioWare for using it. They gave her an edge of interest by making her show the desperation bubbling beneath the surface when the end of Act 2 comes around the corner.

Merrill and the design of the elves I can just not agree with straight out. I liked the design decisions BioWare took with both the Qunari and the elves. Both were giving more individuality and I can appreciate them moving the elves away from "beautiful humans with pointy ears" to "slightly alien, still captivating".
1. I am almost sure that Aveline is romancable, if you youtube it there's a video for it
bah, you're correct http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INGisqVaiUE

2. You and I agree on this point

3. I see them to be almost identical, Jack Sparrow throws himself out of danger and leaves his companions to what should be his fate, if you do not friend or rival her she pulls this on you and does not return. If you do she comes back.

4. I love the Qunari despite seeing Dranei whenver their on screen, the elves need another redesign as I see what looks like a deformed human when the codex says that the elves are regarded as beautiful by everyone despite the segregation.

Different strokes for different folks however
 

Cry Wolf

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Belgian_Waffles said:
I like Merril, hell she's a great companion I really wanted to romance her and the reason I didn't was not a fault of her character but Bioware's reworking of the series's art style. Seriously every Elf looks like an Albio Na'vi diagnosed with severe down's syndrome. (No offence intended to those who have or know somebody with down's syndrome but every Elf character has the defining head characteristic that let's you know that someone has the mental condition.)
Have a look yourself
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/150/f/2011/086/f/b/orsino_from_dragon_age_2_by_lucius007-d3cn8ki.jpg
http://bitpunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Merrill2.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110214144929/dragonage/images/b/b7/Hawkeandmerrill.jpg

If they had stuck with the Human with elf ears look of Dragon Age: Origins most people would have jumped for Merril instead of Isabella. Instead we have a character with stick thin legs and arms, a boney torso, and a head that is ridiculously out of proportion for its body.
Her story is unique but predictable only the most delusional would believe that her quest wouldn't land her with a first-class ticket on the plane to Fuckedville.
I actually find the the new Elven designs aesthetically pleasing. Their new slightly feline appearance give them an exotic look that is strangely appealing. In regards to her story, in a game where the climax is all about mages, the idea that perhaps not all blood magic is destined to failure was one I found attractive enough to overlook the overwhelming amount evidence that it will end "with a first-class ticket on the plane to Fuckedville", as you put it.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Meh.

I really liked Merrill. The visual design of the elves surprised me to begin with, but I got used to it fairly quickly. I liked that it made them visually distinct from the humans.

Only played through once, so I don't know about the others.

PS. Why is Isabella automatically a "slut" for enjoying sex?
 

Belgian_Waffles

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Zhukov said:
PS. Why is Isabella automatically a "slut" for enjoying sex?
Because she can and does have sex with anything with a pulse.
-Warden
-Allistar
-Zevran
-Leliana
-Hawke
-All of her crew members (until they stopped taking her orders)
-Random Bargoers

If that's not a slut I don't know who is.
 

Anah'ya

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Jun 19, 2010
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Zhukov said:
PS. Why is Isabella automatically a "slut" for enjoying sex?
Belgian_Waffles said:
Zhukov said:
PS. Why is Isabella automatically a "slut" for enjoying sex?
Because she can and does have sex with anything with a pulse.
-Warden
-Allistar
-Zevran
-Leliana
-Hawke
-All of her crew members (until they stopped taking her orders)
-Random Bargoers

If that's not a slut I don't know who is.
You forgot to mention her trip to Anders in the clinic to get herself cured from specific ailments; The "fruits of her labour" if you please.
 

ThisIsSnake

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Cry Wolf said:
Belgian_Waffles said:
I actually find the the new Elven designs aesthetically pleasing. Their new slightly feline appearance give them an exotic look that is strangely appealing. In regards to her story, in a game where the climax is all about mages, the idea that perhaps not all blood magic is destined to failure was one I found attractive enough to overlook the overwhelming amount evidence that it will end "with a first-class ticket on the plane to Fuckedville", as you put it.


Look Edward, Child-ren

The new elves look too tiny :(, also her story seemed unnecassarily dark (I know dragon age is supposed to but c'mon) for a fish out of water Welsh girl. The veins/tatoos are nice though. I totally did though.

OT: Anders might not be attracting to the Warden in awakenings, Hawke might be super attractive to him, Justice might have been bi-sexual and changed his personallity to be more bi-sexual when he possessed him.

Isabella was an exotic pirate style character, they're meant to get around. She looked too much like Christina Aguilera, sticky if you touched her.

Aveline was more attractive, she was down to earth, she was a strong female character who wasn't just acting like a dom/one of the boys on the otherhand...

That epic chin. But she was unromancable dammit :(
 

umbak

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May 17, 2010
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I found the fact that Aveline was un-romancable endearing as she basically develops into a de-facto sister (and does a better bloody job of it than Bethany or Carver) and in the wake of losing pretty much his entire family, is still a dependable backbone for Hawke.
It also makes her hilarious out of combat talks with Isabela even more hilarious (especially if Varric is around to proof read Isabela's "friend fiction" :p)