Dragon Age Inquistion players: How do you feel Bioware handled Dorian?s sexual orientation?

[Silvanus]

It?s not forced at all. In fact, it?s not even mentioned unless you go looking for Dorian?s preferences (which I didn?t). Seriously, if it wasn?t for the internet, I wouldn?t even know Dorian was gay. Sera will burp out hints towards her sexually, but it?s pretty mild. Krem?s transsexuality is brought up a bit more bluntly, but if it?s all inconsequential side dialogue that I didn?t bother with after my first run. It might have been a bit ham-handed, but if the game was written by a bunch of straight people that have never met a transvetite than I couldn?t expect anything more. Seriously dude, none of this is relevant to gameplay or the plotline and it?s mostly only brought up if you choose the flirt option with these characters.

The whole ?forced? is in absolute lie because this whole romance deal is optional and not even brought up outside of the flirt dialogues. As far as being ?poorly written? or ?ham-handed? or what not, I haven?t a clue because I never talked to those characters about their sexuality. However, I?d say good on them for at least trying to fit some missing demographics in; it?s better than ignoring their existence. I saw a thread accusing DA:I about all of this and it seriously just sounding like a bunch of white boys not wanting to share their game with LGBTs. I don?t see how these guys can look on optional stuff and call it ?forced.? Ridiculous.

Fair enough-- I did suspect that might have been the case. There doesn't seem to have been any advertising which focused on this particular aspect, so that shows a number of claims about Bioware's approach to be false.

Objecting to entirely-optional content on such grounds strikes me as ludicrous.

 

[Saetha]

Woah, what's with all the Sera hate? What'd she do? I haven't played the game yet, but she did look kinda annoying...

She was designed to be really annoying to a lot of people. It's glorious.

BioWare knew people would hate her, she is the only person you can kick out at any time.

Wuh...?

Why would they intentionally design a companion that people would hate and kick out? That's so pointless.

 

[Pete Oddly]

Woah, what's with all the Sera hate? What'd she do? I haven't played the game yet, but she did look kinda annoying...

She was designed to be really annoying to a lot of people. It's glorious.

BioWare knew people would hate her, she is the only person you can kick out at any time.

I know, right? However; it's more accurate to say they designed a character certain people would hate, and certain people would love. Personally, I love Sera. Sure, there were moments when her stubbornness grated on me, like when we had a lively discussion about religion which almost ended our romance, but all in all I thought she was fantastic and a lot deeper than people give her credit for.

 

[Ladylotus]

A number of people have mentioned that they felt it was "ham-fisted", or "forced", or something similar. I haven't played the game, so I don't know personally.

I'd like someone to tell me in a little more detail what they mean by this, though. Is it just "ham-fisted" because it's unambiguous? How is it more so than straight characters' interest in the opposite sex?

It's more that his entire companion story quest revolves around daddy issues about him being gay. It about as cliched as it sounds and plays out the same way.

To be fair, you can't really call Bioware out for daddy issues anymore. Not after Mass Effect 2 and the 'S.S.V. Parental problems'. It's practically their go-to for character backgrounds. 'Fun, interesting characters with intelligent or engaging dialogue? Better give 'em some daddy issues for drama!'

I'd just like to add here:

Thane - Daddy issues (he's the father, though)
Grunt - Puberty
Mordan - Actually interesting and unique quest
Miranda - Daddy issues
Jacob - Daddy issues
Jack - See Mordan
Samara - Mommy issues (she's the mommy)
Tali - Daddy issues (to an extent)
Legion - See Mordan
Garrus -See Mordan

So yeah. Dorian's daddy issues aren't that new.

Also I thought it was handled well, especially since it also gave insight on Tevinter ideals.

 

[norashepard]

I mean, Dorian WAS written by a gay man, so as far as I'm concerned it's perfectly fine in that aspect. If a gay dude thinks that that's the story a gay character would live, then who are we to argue? I will say though, it did seem like blowing up an issue that could have been covered in two lines. "Hi, I'm Dorian! My dad tried to use blood magic to make me straight! I'm terribly broken up about it, really, and I've decided never to talk to him again." The end. To be fair though, the companion quests in this game were mad disappointing. Everyone gets more or less ONE, and like seven of those are the most obvious fucking thing in the world and add very little to a character unless you save-scum and watch all the outcomes. Then it reaches a decent amount of content, but so few people do that.

And just because it's important to me: I love Sera! But I also don't think she's supposed to be taken as a fun, happy character like most people assume. She's got some of the most subtle tragedy going on in the whole game. Definitely one of the deepest characters if you take the time to piece her together. I think the reason most people hate her is that she looks like one thing but is another entirely, and that's not usually something that happens in Bioware games. For me though, I can't play the game without her. Everything else just feels more or less like a rehash of every other fantasy story I've ever encountered, including Dorian's story. FULL CIRCLE.

 

[AntiChri5]

Woah, what's with all the Sera hate? What'd she do? I haven't played the game yet, but she did look kinda annoying...

She was designed to be really annoying to a lot of people. It's glorious.

BioWare knew people would hate her, she is the only person you can kick out at any time.

Wuh...?

Why would they intentionally design a companion that people would hate and kick out? That's so pointless.

It's....they didn't design her to be hated by all, but they designed her knowing she would be hated. Like.....did ever you play DA2 as a mage? If so, remember Hawke's little brother Carver? Same writer. Carver was never supposed to be likable. He spent his life as the little brother of an RPG protagonist, and it really showed. An entire life in Hawke's shadow, being told not to display his (considerable) skill in order to avoid drawing attention, only for Hawke to stand out anyway. He is grumpy, resentful, brash and has a massive inferiority complex. He constantly bitches about minor things. All in all, he sorely needs a kick in the ass. But he loves his family above all else, as much as he grumbles and bitches he would die for his siblings and parent without hesitation. After a while, he grows up enough to realize he needs some distance and purpose elsewhere, that Hawke can take care of themself and he needs his own thing elsewhere. One of my favourite companions in the game.

I love Sera because i think she is a great character, in part because of how grounded and realistic her flaws are, how well they mesh with her positive traits to make an interesting and nuanced character who both has a lot of depth but can still be an idiot. Those flaws, though, are something i can easily see being a dealbreaker for many. She is a constant kick in the ass, mocking commonly held protagonist views and giving us a look into how few fucks the average person in Thedas really gives about some players pet causes. She is as intelligent as she is inarticulate, with some great insight for people with the patience to figure out what the fuck she is saying.

 

[Steve Waltz]

Woah, what's with all the Sera hate? What'd she do? I haven't played the game yet, but she did look kinda annoying...

She was designed to be really annoying to a lot of people. It's glorious.

BioWare knew people would hate her, she is the only person you can kick out at any time.

Wuh...?

Why would they intentionally design a companion that people would hate and kick out? That's so pointless.

Because she is, in my opinion, the most OP of all the followers. Tempest archers are so absurdly OP that it?s hardly a contest. They have potions that can slow time down by 99% for +7 seconds, which essentially gives them time to regenerate all stamina, refill any cooldowns, and take pot shots at enemies while they can?t do jack. They also have another potion that can negate stamina usage and cooldowns for all abilities. Mix that with the Long Shot ability and they can easily do +5,000 damage depending on the distance from the enemy. Then, if any enemy gets close, they can use the ice potion that improves damage resistance by 85%, but that hardly matters because any enemy that attempts to attack will freeze before they can finish swinging their sword. Not only that, but the upgraded ice potion also taunts enemies into attacking them, so a nearby mage can feel a little more safe with a Tempest around.


Varric?s fun with Bianca, but he doesn?t have the Tempest abilities that Sera has, so he?s not as worth using as much as Sera is. Still, Varric?s actually fun while Sera is mostly just annoying. I know that I kicked her out of the inquisition on my first run.

Sera might be deep, but it?s so hard to give her the chance to develop as a character because she?s just so annoying to be around. :/ I?m using her right now on my second run, but I?m still racking up a ton of negativity from her because I?m not inclined to murder things I don?t like.

 

[William Ossiss]

But he's a million times better than the other "pure gay" character, Sera, who was just terrible in every single way.

Thank goodness. I thought I was going crazy or something given how many people seem to like her. I couldn't stand her for even a second. She was just grating beyond any measure I could come up with.

Oh, the crazy elf woman. Yeah, I skipped her my first time through the campaign. As it is now, I prefer she stay away from my group. She's loud, annoying.... I have usually like all Bioware characters to some degree. This marks the first time that I have outright hated a character.
The fact that she's an elf doesn't help, either. Smegging knife ears...

OT: Dorian was cool. I enjoyed his company... but playing as a mage that was... rather heavy handed in the punishment department...
So I didn't really have mages on my party. Never really talked to them.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

As someone who has never played DA:I there's no way for me to comment on whether it was handled well or whether it was heavy handed and cliched. But there is one thing i can't help but notice ...

Every time people raise an issue of diversity in gaming or ask that there be more woman, gays etc, there is the inevitable backlash yelling about freedom of speech and how developers shouldn't be forced into anything. And I'm fine with that, I completely agree, I don't think anyone should be forced into it, i don't even really agree with people boycotting or pressuring devs to enforce diversity, even though i acknowledge that it is their right to do so. I agree that devs should only tackle the issue if they want to.
But something i can't help but notice, when ever any dev actually does want to tackle that issue, they are met with a torrent of people screaming, "IT DOESN'T MATTER! IT DOESN'T MATTER! SEXUALITY ISN'T A BIG DEAL! WHY ARE THEY MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF IT?! EVERYONE, WE MUST SPREAD THE WORD TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE! THEY MUST KNOW! THEY MUST KNOW HOW LITTLE OF A DEAL IT IS!"

Not that there is definitely a significant overlap between the two groups, but it just seems like a case of you're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't.
If you're not inclusive, the social justice side will ravage you. If you are inclusive, gamers will shit themselves inside out and expect you to keep your mouth shut about it at all times, not even a single word about gender, sexuality, race etx, lest you be "making a big deal out of it."

Madness...

 

[ecoho]

I think they nailed what the real thing is like actually. My cousin cam out to his dad and yeah it didn't end well, they fought for 6 years with his dad trying to get him to marry girl after girl before him disowning him, and them reconciling at his fathers death bed. So yeah a bit cliché but is still very spot on with wealthy and traditional families.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Gay characters are important. There just not THAT important. The problem comes from when one commentator makes it out to be this really big brave thing like the guy who made the character just spit in the face of an isis terrorist. Hes an asshole. we shall call him frisco libbyman.

So then another commentator comes in who is probably just your average guy. He isnt a homophobe and doesnt see alot of it and then he sees frisky here making this huge double rainbow shit about this one aspect of a character and goes" whats the big deal whats it matter if hes gay" He ends up coming off as insensitive and ignorant. well call him Georgia regman(see the theme here )

Think about it from a gay mans point of view. Do you think he really jumps up and down because some side character or hell a main is gay? I dont think so or that many gay men do(Im sure some do but not many) but for me(no im not gay but yeah) and probably alot of people its just a nice touch. adds necessary flavor and characterization to the whole thing.

But the whole point of this post is to characterise and largely satirize the two opposing sides to these arguements. One I feel flys way over the margin of it while the other stuck a ways below ground. Someone in the middle has to bring these two together to see things from each others perspectives. ideally anyway.

 

[Silvanus]

Think about it from a gay mans point of view. Do you think he really jumps up and down because some side character or hell a main is gay? I dont think so or that many gay men do(Im sure some do but not many) but for me(no im not gay but yeah) and probably alot of people its just a nice touch. adds necessary flavor and characterization to the whole thing.

You're right in a sense, though it can feel pretty significant to see a gay character represented in a way to which I can relate. It's a rare thing to see, and it can feel genuinely reaffirming when it does happen.

 

[halisme]

The whole ?forced? is in absolute lie because this whole romance deal is optional and not even brought up outside of the flirt dialogues. As far as being ?poorly written? or ?ham-handed? or what not, I haven?t a clue because I never talked to those characters about their sexuality. However, I?d say good on them for at least trying to fit some missing demographics in; it?s better than ignoring their existence. I saw a thread accusing DA:I about all of this and it seriously just sounding like a bunch of white boys not wanting to share their game with LGBTs. I don?t see how these guys can look on optional stuff and call it ?forced.? Ridiculous.

You also find out in his companion quest, which you can do without romancing him.

OT: Dorian I'm fine with, it was ham fisted but aright.The transsexual character I was fine with until they pointed it out and said "this is normal and you should not judge", despite the fact no one else had acted on it. They treated my character like I was going to treat them differently from anyone else in the world and it kinda ruined the immersion.

 

[Ladylotus]

You also find out in his companion quest, which you can do without romancing him.

OT: Dorian I'm fine with, it was ham fisted but aright.The transsexual character I was fine with until they pointed it out and said "this is normal and you should not judge", despite the fact no one else had acted on it. They treated my character like I was going to treat them differently from anyone else in the world and it kinda ruined the immersion.

I don't remember anyone saying anything like that for Krem? Iron Bull said that he'd be considered male in Qunari culture, but in neither of my playthroughs was I accused of being remotely transphobic (I'm very glad for this, seeing as I'm trans myself).

 

[ReservoirAngel]

Think about it from a gay mans point of view. Do you think he really jumps up and down because some side character or hell a main is gay? I dont think so or that many gay men do(Im sure some do but not many) but for me(no im not gay but yeah) and probably alot of people its just a nice touch. adds necessary flavor and characterization to the whole thing.

You're right in a sense, though it can feel pretty significant to see a gay character represented in a way to which I can relate. It's a rare thing to see, and it can feel genuinely reaffirming when it does happen.

Yup, this is about it. I've never personally had any drama about my sexuality remotely into "parents forcing me to be straight" territory, but I know people who have and to see what is a very tangible reality of a lot of gay peoples' lives given not only a spot in a big game like this but actually treated with some decent restraint and emotion is nice to see. Sure it's not going to make or break the game, necessarily, by its inclusion or exclusion but it's always nice to see.

Also, I had no idea you could boot Sera's arse out of the Inquisition. Mostly I've just been very pointedly ignoring her. Like, I've spoken to all the other party members around Skyhold and had proper conversations to get to know them, but Sera I just leave standing there. On her own. Where she belongs.

I wish I could justify it with something about not needing a ranged Rogue or just not liking elves, but I play an elf and keep Varric around, so there's no justification. She's as abrasive to me as a cheese grater applied directly to the intimate areas. Can't stand the woman.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

You also find out in his companion quest, which you can do without romancing him.

OT: Dorian I'm fine with, it was ham fisted but aright.The transsexual character I was fine with until they pointed it out and said "this is normal and you should not judge", despite the fact no one else had acted on it. They treated my character like I was going to treat them differently from anyone else in the world and it kinda ruined the immersion.

I don't remember anyone saying anything like that for Krem? Iron Bull said that he'd be considered male in Qunari culture, but in neither of my playthroughs was I accused of being remotely transphobic (I'm very glad for this, seeing as I'm trans myself).

In the same conversation at some point in the dialogue tree Bull says something along the lines of "I've got horns and you've got a magical glowing hand. We're not exactly the type of people who should go around saying what's normal."

 

[halisme]

I don't remember anyone saying anything like that for Krem? Iron Bull said that he'd be considered male in Qunari culture, but in neither of my playthroughs was I accused of being remotely transphobic (I'm very glad for this, seeing as I'm trans myself).

It was highlighting what the game and I had treated as normal throughout, only to say that he should be treated normally. It acted like it wasn't a non-issue, despite the game treating it as a non-issue before hand.

 

[AntiChri5]

But he's a million times better than the other "pure gay" character, Sera, who was just terrible in every single way.

Thank goodness. I thought I was going crazy or something given how many people seem to like her. I couldn't stand her for even a second. She was just grating beyond any measure I could come up with.

Oh, the crazy elf woman. Yeah, I skipped her my first time through the campaign. As it is now, I prefer she stay away from my group. She's loud, annoying.... I have usually like all Bioware characters to some degree. This marks the first time that I have outright hated a character.
The fact that she's an elf doesn't help, either. Smegging knife ears...

OT: Dorian was cool. I enjoyed his company... but playing as a mage that was... rather heavy handed in the punishment department...
So I didn't really have mages on my party. Never really talked to them.

If elves annoy you, then you and Sera should be able to agree on at least one thing.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Think about it from a gay mans point of view. Do you think he really jumps up and down because some side character or hell a main is gay? I dont think so or that many gay men do(Im sure some do but not many) but for me(no im not gay but yeah) and probably alot of people its just a nice touch. adds necessary flavor and characterization to the whole thing.

You're right in a sense, though it can feel pretty significant to see a gay character represented in a way to which I can relate. It's a rare thing to see, and it can feel genuinely reaffirming when it does happen.

Oh I agree completely. Its reaffirming for me too.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

I thought he was a well written character, but some of the daddy issue/"I'm gay" stuff was ham-fisted. Bioware/EA's kinda been that way regarding LGBT characters for ages now.

[sub][sub][sub](Sorry for picking just you Fappy, but I know you to be an alright sort)[/sub][/sub][/sub]

People keep using the terms "Ham-fisted" and "Forced", but what do you mean exactly? How should this part (or Krem's part) of the story be changed? I'm not saying they're perfect, or that it's not possible to dislike it, but for most "not straight" story bits I keep hearing this same complaint without people explaining how it could be different or giving "better" examples.

If ya have some, please care, and share. ;D

OT: Personally, I liked Dorian and I liked the bit with his dad. It wasn't just about him being gay, but also the culture of the Tevinter elite. If Dorian was a commoner no one would care, but because he's a noble (especially one in Tevinter) he's expected to have kids (or rather, he's expected to give his family heirs). Can't do that (in DA at least) unless you sleep with the opposite sex. So it's a deal to his family and it fits the lore.

Plus, as others have said, it wasn't just that he was kicked out for being gay, it was that his dad was willing to use blood magic (something he taught his son was for the weak minded) to change Dorian even though it could not only not word, but also leave him a vegetable. Also, this kind of thing does happen in real life. Normally with families a bit higher in class, or at least able to afford the "therapy".

As for Sera. Yeah she's kind of a prig. ;p
Didn't kick her out though. Just made her keep talking to Cole. xD
Love Cole. Gave some of the best lines to The Iron Bull.