Dragon Age Inqusition: Denuvo DRM apparently liable to destorying SSDs

[Zipa]

Is there actually any proof that this is even a thing outside of this one Russian source? News from one source like this is extremely sketchy to say the least.

Also for the people calling this a bad port have you played the game? I seriously doubt it. It looks and and plays pretty damn well and has a ton of graphics options, heck even Totalbiscuit admitted on his podcast that it has been ported well barring a few minor niggles.

Also you should maybe read this [http://forum.bioware.com/topic/519257-denuvo-drm-used-by-dai/?bioware=1%5B1%5D] before losing your minds. Took me literally five seconds of Googling to find this.

 

[Lucifiel]

Hmm... I am not that familiar with this whole Denuvo stuff but since I assumed this would have been an issue brought up by the people who bought/were plannig on buying DAI, I took a look over their forums and EA Answer HQ and found this little thread:

http://answers.ea.com/t5/Dragon-Age-Inquisition/Denuvo-DRM/m-p/4001373/highlight/true#M3783%C2%A0

Which, then points to this thread:

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/519257-denuvo-drm-used-by-dai/?bioware=1[1] <- This offers a lot more info

I then went over to the Denuvo site, just to see what exactly is the product about and found this info in their FAQ page:

"Does Denuvo Anti-Tamper constantly encrypt and decrypt data on storage media?

No, Denuvo Anti-Tamper does not continuously encrypt and decrypt any data on storage media. To do so would be of no benefit in terms of security or performance.

"Does Denuvo Anti-Tamper affect my SSD or any other type of hard drives in any way?

No. As mentioned before, Denuvo Anti-Tamper does not constantly read or write any data to storage media."


Some more digging around (to see if I can find info in other parts of the internet other than the developer side) showed that only Lords of the Fallen has had performance issues and that those were fixed via patching. Denuvo was used in FIFA 15, as a counter example and that one, apparently showed no problems.

Other players also posted screens of their SSD activities during gameplay involving Denuvo and did not get those results.

I am not saying I agree with the use of DRM or anti-tampering SW but at least do a little bit of digging around before believing everything you read from one source only.

EDIT: Whoa... Ninja'd by a few before posting

 

[MisterColeman]

Not that I am claiming this isn't real but my SSD wasn't impacted so lucky me I guess.

My problem is why do they need this DRM? Isn't it enough that I put this horrible Origin thing on my PC?

 

[Zipa]

Not that I am claiming this isn't real but my SSD wasn't impacted so lucky me I guess.

My problem is why do they need this DRM? Isn't it enough that I put this horrible Origin thing on my PC?

It is not DRM, it doesn't check home or for an intenet connection or anything of the sort. It is more related to stopping people cheating in Multiplayer by editing stuff in the .exe

 

[Coreless]

Man you people will believe anything, seriously stop listening to random internet nobodies who provide absolutely zero data to back up their claims. It has always been addressed numerous times on the bioware forums that Denuvo does absolutely nothing since its just an exe file and has no connection to writing data to drives. There are threads popping up everyday on the forums that are started by nothing but rumor.

Taken from the Bioware forums: "Again, these claims are totally unsubstantiated and all of the evidence provided (even evidence "proving it") has shown that the claims and concerns are not based on fact. The data provided on some Russian forum is not conclusive. Especially when the discussion over there is anti-Denuvo. Who's to say that person wasn't falsifying that data? They very likely did. You may have a thread discussing the performance impact of Denuvo when you can provide a link to a single respectable test." - Moderators

http://forum.bioware.com/topic/519697-denuvo-drm-in-dai-how-much-will-it-impact-performance/page-4

 

[ninja666]

How the hell is this the most restrictive DRM there is?

It is the most restrictive DRM there is because despite all of those positive aspects you mentioned, it doesn't let you own the games you bought. You merely buy the permission to play them, but it's them who own those. If they want, they could ban your account with all those games, with no explanation apart from "it sucks to be you". They can do what they want with it and you have no control over it. The best example is the recent removal of some of the GTA: San Andreas's soundtrack. Could people do anything about it? No. Why? Because they agreed that they only rent those games for unspecified amount of time, paying full retail price for it.

 

[DoPo]

This seems very likely to be inaccurate. No one else has reproduced the issue.

It's entirely inaccurate, and it's both amusing and depressing to see a thread full of people flipping out over an unsubstantiated rumor from a random RPG board when the lack of supporting evidence was already pointed out to them. Especially since a great many people on this forum self-identify as pillars of rationality interested only in immutable facts.

Well, in all fairness, the rumour, actually originates from a random Russian online magazine [https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgamemag.ru%2Fnews%2Fdrm-zashchita-dragon-ageinquisition-denuvo-antitamper-ubivaet-ssdhdd-101753http%3A%2F%2F] (link to Google-translated version). It doesn't make it any more substantial, though, just wanted to clear up the origins.

Soooo Denuvo is lying?

A copy paste from their FAQ:

Q: Does Denuvo Anti-Tamper constantly encrypt and decrypt data on storage media?
A: No, Denuvo Anti-Tamper does not continuously encrypt and decrypt any data on storage media. To do so would be of no benefit in terms of security or performance.

Q: Does Denuvo Anti-Tamper affect my SSD or any other type of hard drives in any way?
A: No. As mentioned before, Denuvo Anti-Tamper does not constantly read or write any data to storage media.

Q: What is the difference between DRM and Anti-Tamper?
A: A Digital Rights Management (DRM) system binds the game to a legitimate user account and allows the game to be played whenever and wherever the consumer wants to download and execute the game.
Anti-Tamper stops the reverse engineering and debugging of the DRM solution, but has no effect or limitation on the legitimate consumer. Anti-Tamper is completely transparent to legitimate game buyers and does not in any way impose activation limits, install drivers, or require a gamer to be "always on."

First two questions/answers weren't there when I looked at their site yesterday. I did notice they were added today, but I didn't get to post it. As for the third, it's technically correct, for the most part. The only "incorrectness" is their definition of DRM.

1. By "DRM" they seem to mean "Digital distribution" when that's not the extent of DRM measures.
2. They imply that anti-tamper measures are not DRM. Well, they aren't, strictly speaking, but they could be another form of DRM depending on the use case. And Drenuvo does act as a DRM layer in this case.

However, other than that, the statement is correct. Well within tolerance for the certain inherent inaccuracy of natural language.

 

[razer17]

Will the dead brains at EA never learn? DRM is worthless. People will pirate your game in any system. Care only about the people who wants to buy your game.

In all fairness, Fifa 15 which uses this Denuvo thing hasn't been cracked yet, 2 months on.

 

[Denamic]

How the hell is this the most restrictive DRM there is?

It is the most restrictive DRM there is because despite all of those positive aspects you mentioned, it doesn't let you own the games you bought. You merely buy the permission to play them, but it's them who own those. If they want, they could ban your account with all those games, with no explanation apart from "it sucks to be you". They can do what they want with it and you have no control over it. The best example is the recent removal of some of the GTA: San Andreas's soundtrack. Could people do anything about it? No. Why? Because they agreed that they only rent those games for unspecified amount of time, paying full retail price for it.

You never own any media you purchase. You only pay for the license to use it. True, with physical copies, it's not like they can take it from you, but you do not own it. As for steam taking away your access, they cannot do that without cause. If you are banned because you violated their ToS, you've no one but yourself to blame. But when you pay for using the steam service, you engage in a two way contract. As long as you keep your part of the deal, they have to keep theirs. They cannot randomly decide to ban you. As for soundtracks, that's a different story. Those are not things you pay for; they are things you get as a bonus. It's not a contract you have engaged in and you have no rights regarding its use outside of what you are given.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

In all fairness, Fifa 15 which uses this Denuvo thing hasn't been cracked yet, 2 months on.

It's not the best example. FIFA is generally played for online matchmaking, as opposed to games against the AI.

 

[ninja666]

True, with physical copies, it's not like they can take it from you

That's solely what I meant. Maybe you don't "own" the game in the legal sense, but you're entitled to do whatever you want with your physical copy.

As for soundtracks, that's a different story. Those are not things you pay for; they are things you get as a bonus. It's not a contract you have engaged in and you have no rights regarding its use outside of what you are given.

In this case, it's not about the separate soundtrack you can listen to. They literally removed the songs from the game itself.

 

[Lucifiel]

That's funny, because I've never felt restricted because of steam. In fact, it's steam that let me log into my account and download games from wherever I damn well please whenever I choose to do so. It's also my primary IM program, letting me keep in touch with gamer friends. It also keeps my games up to date without me having to do anything, and it even provides me with patch notes when the developers decide to share them. There's also newsfeeds for several games to keep me up to date with events. The store gives me great discounts and it's tailored to my preferences. It also provides easy access to game tools like the construction set for skyrim, or things like dedicated server software for games that support it. There's also the workshop that lets me mod games with the click of a button, and keep those mods up to date with no input required from me. For those with the skills to do so can create item models for dota and earn money doing it. It even lets me sell items I get from playing games. I can actually buy games with money I earned as a byproduct from playing games. There's even a goddamn music player built in now. How the hell is this the most restrictive DRM there is?

Well, Origin does most of that too but since it is restricted to one publisher it severly lacks Steam's diversity. Also, it came on the market years after Steam had been established as a platform. I can only asume it will take time to catch up and I think it is quite difficult to bring more variation to such a system.

I may be wrong about this one so do take this with a grain of salt but it seems to me that people's opinions on Origin are heavily influenced by two things:

1. Their utter and unflinching hate for EA
2. Steam and ... well the Steam experience

True, Origin had a lot of flaws and looks and feels different from Steam. I remember clearly that towards its beginnings, it crashed like nobody's business. It crashed when it started. It crashed while browsing the store. It crashed while doing nothing. It especially crashed while updating. Starting a game was a repetitive trial and error process with trying out all possible combinations between starting Origin as Admin or starting the game as Admin.

But it got better. I honestly cannot remember the last time Origin crashed during the last year. They do not have a selection of games that really rises my interests much, nor do they have tools or a music player... I'm not even sure they have any big sale.... But they offer free games every now and then and, unlike Steam, they offer refunds on their games. Another surprising thing is that I had a retail version of Dragon Age 2 and, as with every retail game I own, I am always a bit paranoid about damaging the disk. Origin recognized the installed game and added it to the library. Now I can just dload the digital version whenever I please. I liked that.

I'm not saying "LOVE Origin" or "Love EA" or "Yes for DRM" or "Steam is actually bad". I'm saying have a little more of an open mind when a product/SW is offerred. Make an informed opinion. Try it out perhaps. THEN decide you hate it/agree/disagree with it.

Now I am not entirely sure about the point I was trying to make... I think it was still connected to this whole believe and not investigate flow this thread has taken.

CAPTCHA: root bear float ... Yes, I would very much like to try one. They don't have them in my country....

 

[Denamic]

As for soundtracks, that's a different story. Those are not things you pay for; they are things you get as a bonus. It's not a contract you have engaged in and you have no rights regarding its use outside of what you are given.

In this case, it's not about the separate soundtrack you can listen to. They literally removed the songs from the game itself.

That sounds like rockstar had lost the license to have those songs in the game, and valve therefore had to remove either them or the game itself from being sold. I don't know the circumstances behind it and cannot make any definitive statements about it, and from the sound of it, neither do you.

 

[ninja666]

That sounds like rockstar had lost the license to have those songs in the game, and valve therefore had to remove either them or the game itself from being sold.

That pretty much the case here. It's still a dick move though, showing that neither Rockstar nor Valve has any respect for their customers.

 

[Denamic]

That's funny, because I've never felt restricted because of steam. In fact, it's steam that let me log into my account and download games from wherever I damn well please whenever I choose to do so. It's also my primary IM program, letting me keep in touch with gamer friends. It also keeps my games up to date without me having to do anything, and it even provides me with patch notes when the developers decide to share them. There's also newsfeeds for several games to keep me up to date with events. The store gives me great discounts and it's tailored to my preferences. It also provides easy access to game tools like the construction set for skyrim, or things like dedicated server software for games that support it. There's also the workshop that lets me mod games with the click of a button, and keep those mods up to date with no input required from me. For those with the skills to do so can create item models for dota and earn money doing it. It even lets me sell items I get from playing games. I can actually buy games with money I earned as a byproduct from playing games. There's even a goddamn music player built in now. How the hell is this the most restrictive DRM there is?

Well, Origin does most of that too but since it is restricted to one publisher it severly lacks Steam's diversity. Also, it came on the market years after Steam had been established as a platform. I can only asume it will take time to catch up and I think it is quite difficult to bring more variation to such a system.

I may be wrong about this one so do take this with a grain of salt but it seems to me that people's opinions on Origin are heavily influenced by two things:

1. Their utter and unflinching hate for EA
2. Steam and ... well the Steam experience

True, Origin had a lot of flaws and looks and feels different from Steam. I remember clearly that towards its beginnings, it crashed like nobody's business. It crashed when it started. It crashed while browsing the store. It crashed while doing nothing. It especially crashed while updating. Starting a game was a repetitive trial and error process with trying out all possible combinations between starting Origin as Admin or starting the game as Admin.

But it got better. I honestly cannot remember the last time Origin crashed during the last year. They do not have a selection of games that really rises my interests much, nor do they have tools or a music player... I'm not even sure they have any big sale.... But they offer free games every now and then and, unlike Steam, they offer refunds on their games. Another surprising thing is that I had a retail version of Dragon Age 2 and, as with every retail game I own, I am always a bit paranoid about damaging the disk. Origin recognized the installed game and added it to the library. Now I can just dload the digital version whenever I please. I liked that.

I'm not saying "LOVE Origin" or "Love EA" or "Yes for DRM" or "Steam is actually bad". I'm saying have a little more of an open mind when a product/SW is offerred. Make an informed opinion. Try it out perhaps. THEN decide you hate it/agree/disagree with it.

Now I am not entirely sure about the point I was trying to make... I think it was still connected to this whole believe and not investigate flow this thread has taken.

CAPTCHA: root bear float ... Yes, I would very much like to try one. They don't have them in my country....

The hate for Origin is because they sell digital copies of games for more than the physical copies cost at a retail store. Their prices are not only not competitive, but outright greedy. It's ridiculous to think you can compete with steam with prices easily twice as high as steam has. The only reason origin even exist is because they have juggernaut IPs that exclusively use origin.

 

[Denamic]

That sounds like rockstar had lost the license to have those songs in the game, and valve therefore had to remove either them or the game itself from being sold.

That pretty much the case here. It's still a dick move though, showing that neither Rockstar nor Valve has any respect for their customers.

But they have no choice in the matter. They can't sell content they have no right to sell. Removing soundtracks is a reasonable compromise over simply removing the game.

 

[prpshrt]

I can totally imagine EA exec that made the call on this as a person who has zero knowledge programming and computer hardware knowledge and only looked at the initial dollar amounts on his cost analysis report rather than look the drawbacks and other costs. Ugh, makes me regret getting inquisition now even though it's a good game. Can't really enjoy it as much knowing it's slowly killing my PC. Moving it to my mechanical drive I guess...

 

[ninja666]

But they have no choice in the matter. They can't sell content they have no right to sell. Removing soundtracks is a reasonable compromise over simply removing the game.

They had a choice - they could've removed the songs from the game only in the copies that are yet to be bought. What they did, though, is they removed the songs from the copies that were already bought. It's still a dick move because those people bought the game... no, scratch that... permission of usage when the songs still had their licence, and therefore should stay in their copies of the game intact instead of being removed from it without the owners' consent.

 

[Denamic]

But they have no choice in the matter. They can't sell content they have no right to sell. Removing soundtracks is a reasonable compromise over simply removing the game.

They had a choice - they could've removed the songs from the game only in the copies that are yet to be bought. What they did, though, is they removed the songs from the copies that were already bought. It's still a dick move because those people bought the game... no, scratch that... permission of usage when the songs still had their licence, and therefore should stay in their copies of the game intact instead of being removed from it without their consent.

Now that I think about it, it's much more probable that rockstar made a patch for the game that removed the content to keep the game on sale. That would apply to all copies of the game. Valve likely had nothing to do with it. And even if they did, it's something they had to do or just outright remove the game from being sold. Which would be a much worse option. You can't always please everyone.

In any case, that has nothing to do with how restrictive steam is.

 

[ninja666]

In any case, that has nothing to do with how restrictive steam is.

Except it does. It shows that they can do whatever they fuckin' please with the games you bought with your own (or your parents') hard-earned money, without your knowledge or consent, which is indeed a restriction.