DS Flash Cart Importer Jailed

[ASnogarD]

The gov seems far more intrested in protecting IP and Business intrest, than the lives and property of citizens.
They toss old age pensioners into jail for not paying council taxes, but release robbers and criminals guilty of assualting the vunerable after barely warming the cell bench.

To me it seems money is worth a crap load more than people... but I guess that is reality of a modern society, lives are cheap but that new Porche costs a fortune.

 

[slopeslider]

Banning flashcarts because you can pirate games is like banning the internet because you can use it to look at 4chan loli. Forget the totally legit uses lets focus one one 'illegal' aspect of it.

Yeah. The majority of people buying an R4 flash card will only use it for homebrew, only a small minority will use it to play pirated games - just like the internet. Most people use it to watch drawn child pornography instead of the gazillion other things you can do there.

'9 times out of 10' mp3 players are used to pirate music. We should make them illegal.

No? They may be used to play pirated music, but you can hardly download mp3 files with your player...

You can hardly download pirated games with a flashcard, usually a thing called a computer is used to access files. It makes no difference. FAR more people pirate mp3's than ds games, yet the legal status of drm-free mp3 players has never been called into question.

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

I don't support piracy. Most real gamers don't... or at least, they don't feel sympathy for people who get in trouble for it. We all buy the games, they can too. But a year in jail? That's a bit harsh. And really, there are lots of other reasons to get those cards than to just bootleg games (If you disagree, check many of the previous posts.) I personally have one of those cards and just use it to emulate my NES (which I legally OWN 117 cartidges for, so no, that's not illegal.) I only do that because the NES isn't exactly portable. I don't think just importing the cards should be an arrestable offense. Now, if they had proof he was bootlegging games, sure. But if he was just reselling them, I don't think he actually did anything illegal. I own a gun, but I'm (hopefully) not gonna get arrested for murder just because the gun would allow me to kill someone.

 

[Hyrulian Hero]

I still think the whole issue of making console 'chipping' and 'modding' a criminal offence is stupid. I'm a developer. I want to write apps for just about everything. I can't write apps for the PS3, or a DS, or the iPhone withing shelling out cash I don't have - so I jailbreak, mod or hack them. Oh - but that makes me a criminal?

Twats. Or, more accurately, "The law is a ass"

if your a developer, then you know how much time and effort goes into making programs.

now look at the programs that you use........ someone made that.......stealing it via pirating is essentially stealing their income.

do I think $300 for photoshop is overpriced? yes, but I also understand that people put their time and effort into making it, that a company has to recover losses incurred from developing said program.

of course, this is only assuming your an actual developer, in otherwords, I call bullshit.

um... you didn't exactly make a point here... He said that he's a developer and likes to write his own code for things... He didn't say at all that he wants to pirate the programs he uses, so your argument against him pirating things is really quite dumb. He isn't pirating software, he's making his own. Not only is that completely legal, it's generally how many good things come about. Think of any software company. Now, do you think that the code for their programs just manifested from divine will? Nope, they had to create it themselves. How do you know this guy isn't the next Tim Schafer? You don't!

And so for that, I call bullshit.

 

[Gladion]

Banning flashcarts because you can pirate games is like banning the internet because you can use it to look at 4chan loli. Forget the totally legit uses lets focus one one 'illegal' aspect of it.

Yeah. The majority of people buying an R4 flash card will only use it for homebrew, only a small minority will use it to play pirated games - just like the internet. Most people use it to watch drawn child pornography instead of the gazillion other things you can do there.

'9 times out of 10' mp3 players are used to pirate music. We should make them illegal.

No? They may be used to play pirated music, but you can hardly download mp3 files with your player...

You can hardly download pirated games with a flashcard, usually a thing called a computer is used to access files. It makes no difference. FAR more people pirate mp3's than ds games, yet the legal status of drm-free mp3 players has never been called into question.

Please stop to defend shit like this. The thing is, 99,9% of those Flash Cards are used for playing downloaded DS games, whereas MP3 players are not. It's one thing to sell things that are capable of being abused, such as MP3 players or DVD burners or whatever - it is another thing if your product has practically "play games you didn't pay for" labelled on it.

 

[slopeslider]

Banning flashcarts because you can pirate games is like banning the internet because you can use it to look at 4chan loli. Forget the totally legit uses lets focus one one 'illegal' aspect of it.

Yeah. The majority of people buying an R4 flash card will only use it for homebrew, only a small minority will use it to play pirated games - just like the internet. Most people use it to watch drawn child pornography instead of the gazillion other things you can do there.

'9 times out of 10' mp3 players are used to pirate music. We should make them illegal.

No? They may be used to play pirated music, but you can hardly download mp3 files with your player...

You can hardly download pirated games with a flashcard, usually a thing called a computer is used to access files. It makes no difference. FAR more people pirate mp3's than ds games, yet the legal status of drm-free mp3 players has never been called into question.

Please stop to defend shit like this. The thing is, 99,9% of those Flash Cards are used for playing downloaded DS games, whereas MP3 players are not. It's one thing to sell things that are capable of being abused, such as MP3 players or DVD burners or whatever - it is another thing if your product has practically "play games you didn't pay for" labeled on it.

Ok now your injecting your bias into it. making up fictional stats about 99.9%, saying 'product has practically "play games you didn't pay for" labeled on it', it's obvious you have a bias against it, while magically exempting the mp3 players because you have one and dont use it for pirated music. Well I have an r4 and I dont use it for pirated games.So can I make up stats about how "99.9%" of r4 users don't pirate games? You're no different than those who see vidoegames ONLY as ways to destroy your minds and make you more violent. They can say the highest selling games are violent,like assasin's creed 2, halo odst, mw2, borderlands, and say "99% of players play violent games" to further their hate.
It would seem to me that you are for gun bans as well, after all '99%' of all shootings are criminal. They 'practically have "kill the police and innocent bystanders 27% more efficiently" on the box!'
However nothing will change your mind so I feel a bit foolish typing all this.

 

[Gladion]

Ok now your injecting your bias into it. making up fictional stats about 99.9%, saying 'product has practically "play games you didn't pay for" labeled on it', it's obvious you have a bias against it, while magically exempting the mp3 players because you have one and dont use it for pirated music. Well I have an r4 and I dont use it for pirated games.So can I make up stats about how "99.9%" of r4 users don't pirate games? You're no different than those who see vidoegames ONLY as ways to destroy your minds and make you more violent. They can say the highest selling games are violent,like assasin's creed 2, halo odst, mw2, borderlands, and say "99% of players play violent games" to further their hate.
It would seem to me that you are for gun bans as well, after all '99%' of all shootings are criminal. They 'practically have "kill the police and innocent bystanders 27% more efficiently" on the box!'
However nothing will change your mind so I feel a bit foolish typing all this.

I don't know. To be honest, I'm rather open minded and would be happy to be convinced - but only if it sounds plausible. Before, you were just saying "I'm right and you're wrong, can't you see that already?" Now you're just completely changing the topic, nagging about things like that '99,9%'-thing I was talking about. I could have said 'pretty much everyone uses it to play downloaded games', would that make you happy? I didn't know you had a problem with metaphors, from now on, I'll be completely literal. (Thank lord this is my final post about this discussion)
By the way, this has nothing to do with bias, but with being realistic. How big is the homebrew-scene on the DS? How many people know about it, how many know how to use it, how many people do use it, how many people use Flash cards only for homebrew? Asking these questions narrows the group down, don't you think?

I also never stated I was for this ban (I'm against it, actually, but censorship is another topic) - it just struck me you defend this piece of hardware so much (by, amongst others, making outrageous comparisons), saying it has so much to offer (which is surely true) while it clearly seems for the majority to be nothing more than a pirating tool for people who are too greedy and can't live with the fact they can only afford a few games.

Yeah, you use it for homebrew only. I believe you, but also ask you this question: how many people do you, when being realistic, really think use this flash card the same way you do?

Oh, and please stop acting like (or even actually thinking) you knew me. I don't even own an mp3 player (or DVD-burner, for that matter) as you guessed.

 

[slopeslider]

Ok now your injecting your bias into it. making up fictional stats about 99.9%, saying 'product has practically "play games you didn't pay for" labeled on it', it's obvious you have a bias against it, while magically exempting the mp3 players because you have one and dont use it for pirated music. Well I have an r4 and I dont use it for pirated games.So can I make up stats about how "99.9%" of r4 users don't pirate games? You're no different than those who see vidoegames ONLY as ways to destroy your minds and make you more violent. They can say the highest selling games are violent,like assasin's creed 2, halo odst, mw2, borderlands, and say "99% of players play violent games" to further their hate.
It would seem to me that you are for gun bans as well, after all '99%' of all shootings are criminal. They 'practically have "kill the police and innocent bystanders 27% more efficiently" on the box!'
However nothing will change your mind so I feel a bit foolish typing all this.

I don't know. To be honest, I'm rather open minded and would be happy to be convinced - but only if it sounds plausible. Before, you were just saying "I'm right and you're wrong, can't you see that already?" Now you're just completely changing the topic, nagging about things like that '99,9%'-thing I was talking about. I could have said 'pretty much everyone uses it to play downloaded games', would that make you happy? I didn't know you had a problem with metaphors, from now on, I'll be completely literal. (Thank lord this is my final post about this discussion)
By the way, this has nothing to do with bias, but with being realistic. How big is the homebrew-scene on the DS? How many people know about it, how many know how to use it, how many people do use it, how many people use Flash cards only for homebrew? Asking these questions narrows the group down, don't you think?

I also never stated I was for this ban (I'm against it, actually, but censorship is another topic) - it just struck me you defend this piece of hardware so much (by, amongst others, making outrageous comparisons), saying it has so much to offer (which is surely true) while it clearly seems for the majority to be nothing more than a pirating tool for people who are too greedy and can't live with the fact they can only afford a few games.

Yeah, you use it for homebrew only. I believe you, but also ask you this question: how many people do you, when being realistic, really think use this flash card the same way you do?

Oh, and please stop acting like (or even actually thinking) you knew me. I don't even own an mp3 player (or DVD-burner, for that matter) as you guessed.

Then why do you defend the existence of mp3 players but not r4 if you own neither? Both have legit uses and shouldn't be banned. Also without stats behind our figures they are meaningless. However small or large the homebrew community is, they deserve to exist.

 

[x0ny]

Why is importing R4 cards illegal? It's not his fault a few bad apples decide to use it for playing pirated games. I don't own a DS, but looking at some of the games, I don't think I'd pay for them anyway, they look like the flash games we can play for free on the internet, only difference is, you use a stick to interact with the game...

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

My aunt got one of those cards for my cousin. I was ready to snap it in half and say it was an accident.

Piracy makes me angry. And you won't like me when I'm angry. I get all whiny and high pitched.

 

[slopeslider]

My aunt got one of those cards for my cousin. I was ready to snap it in half and say it was an accident.

Piracy makes me angry. And you won't like me when I'm angry. I get all whiny and high pitched.

....but you didn't, did you?

 

[laserwulf]

Is anyone else disturbed by the precedent set by this? The R4 cards aren't breaking the law; owners who download games they haven't paid for are. Although cars are used in vehicular manslaughter, drug dealing, prostitution and drive-by shootings, they aren't being criminalized.

 

[Eatbrainz]

I've got an R4 card!
I'm a Fugative!
A Desparado!

 

[JonnWood]

I still think the whole issue of making console 'chipping' and 'modding' a criminal offence is stupid. I'm a developer. I want to write apps for just about everything. I can't write apps for the PS3, or a DS, or the iPhone withing shelling out cash I don't have - so I jailbreak, mod or hack them. Oh - but that makes me a criminal?

Twats. Or, more accurately, "The law is a ass"

The overwhelming use of homebrew on any given game modern console is for piracy. This is to subjective, this is not a debate, this is a fact.

On the other hand when you see something like an R4 cart, a RoM, or whatever and companies cry, you actually see arrests and people treat it like some big deal. To me it seems trivial, and while they ARE right, I can't believe you actually see an arrest over something this comparitively trivial. It's like ignoring a bunch of crack dealers to go after a jaywalker.

Even jaywalkers can cause car accidents.

The biggest problem I have with the issue itself is that to some extent it involves property rights. See, what a lot of it comes down to is companies wanting to get people to pay continuously for something they already own. As well as to in many cases continue to hold copyrights they do not want to pay to maintain.

How does preventing piracy involve getting people to "pay for stuff they already own"?

Things like R4 carts are used for doing things like playing ROMS. Companies care very little if you had bought the game in question, they think you should have to buy it again for each new platform even if they do nothing to improve it's performance or whatever.

If I buy a movie on BetaMax, I do not get a free copy on Blu-Ray.

To me that's a touchy subject. As are issues like "Abandonware" where a company no longer maintains production or even the rights to a product yet gets all uppity if someone decides to put the game up on a site like "Home Of The Underdogs" or "Abandonia".

That's more of a grey area.

In general it seems the major complaint about things like this is that in theory you could pirate a current gen game, and that should make them illegal, despite numerous legal uses. But in the end they are no worse than floppy disks, VHS tapes, or other "last gen" media. I think the development of things like DVDS and other "read only" media has given the industry a power trip and an inherant resentment of any kind of potential power in the hands of consumers.

I said it before, and I will say it again; the ability to run homebrew inevitably leads to piracy. The main use of homebrew devices is to play pirated games.

Generally speaking I only think there should be a problem is if someone is caught accepting money for a current gen/currently retailed game on an R4. That's wrong. But even the practice of copying a current game onto an R4 or even owning a game on nothing else, is absolutly fine. See one of the things *I* personally like about being able to copy media is the abillity to create backup copies in case something happens to your originals. Having suffered home floods, thefts, and other things over the years, I admit it makes me a bit nervous to dish out $40-$60 for a game and not have any way to protect it or back it up. I do not consider digital downloads a fair compromise (unless the games are very cheap that way) because your at the mercy of the service. As someone who started with the C-64 I'm one of those guys who is most comfortable knowing I have a backup copy somewhere in storage if the worst happens.

Problem is, it's not your job to choose. That would be the people who actually make the product.

Oh sure there is plenty of potential for abuse there, and it doubtlessly IS abused, but it's not like the gaming industry is full of angels. After all a big part of THEIR motive isn't just the piracy, but also wanting as much power as possible in their hands to re-sell you the same thing as many times as they can if they can get away with it. There really are no good guys.

So piracy is justified because the people being ripped off are dicks?

Is anyone else disturbed by the precedent set by this? The R4 cards aren't breaking the law; owners who download games they haven't paid for are. Although cars are used in vehicular manslaughter, drug dealing, prostitution and drive-by shootings, they aren't being criminalized.

A better analogy would be illegal firearms. It is possible for them to be used only for self-defense, but how many of them are being used only for that purpose?