Dueling With Duel Decks

[Encaen]

Dueling With Duel Decks

Playing some games with Duel Decks: Venser vs. Koth

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[vxicepickxv]

Interesting, I look forward to playing the new duel decks, as well as taking them apart and looking at how they work.

Spoiler: Answer?

When a creature assigns combat damage, it looks for things like the other creature's toughness, if it has trample, and if it has deathtouch. During the first strike damage of the double strike, it attempts to assign 4 damage to the guard, and 1 via trample to the player. The 4 damage is prevented, 1 damage is dealt to the player, and the attacking player would gain 1 life. During regular damage, the same thing would happen, for a total of 2 damage to the player, 1 damage to the crusader, and a gain of 2 life to the attacking player.

If the crusader also had deathtouch, then the damage would have been 8 instead of 2, as the amount of lethal damage assigned by a creature with deathtouch is 1

 

[KefkaCultist]

I honestly did not know that about Oblivion Rings and I've played that wrong a few times in the past, so good to know for future reference (especially since I have a UW control deck with Leyline of Anticipation and O-Rings).

Anyway, the answer to the question is:

Spoiler: answer

2 damage to the player. The Warhammer would make the Crusader a 5/2 with Double Strike and trample, so against the 1/4 it attempts to deal 4 damage it then 1 to the player on the first attack, then another 4 damage attempt to the 1/4 and another to the player on the 2nd strike.

 

[deth2munkies]

The story of why they're fighting is explained here:

http://wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/110a#

The basic rundown is that Koth escapes Mirrodin to look for help finding the Phyrexians, find Elspeth who takes him to Venser, the resident expert on Phyrexians. Koth finds Venser studying and using Phyrexian technology and...strongly objects. It's an ideological difference, though they fight on the same side.

Spoiler

Specifically, the storyline of the original Mirrodin block was of how Memnarch, the corrupted guardian of Mirrodin, brought a ton of different races from other planes to Mirrodin as part of a huge social experiment to generate a planeswalker that inhabitants are still VERY resentful over. When he sees Phyrexian plane-travelling technology, it brings back a lot of unpleasent memories

Also, for the record on the question of the day:

Spoiler

702.17b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. The attacking creature's controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it's attacking.
Example: A 2/2 creature with an ability that enables it to block multiple attackers blocks two attackers: a 1/1 with no abilities a 3/3 with trample. The active player could assign 1 damage from the first attacker and 1 damage from the second to the blocking creature, and 2 damage to the defending player from the creature with trample.
Example: A 6/6 green creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature with protection from green. The attacking creature's controller must assign at least 2 damage to the blocker, even though that damage will be prevented by the blocker's protection ability. The attacking creature's controller can divide the rest of the damage as he or she chooses between the blocking creature and the defending player.

Also, for more oblivion ring shenanigans, watch the 5th video of this series: http://www.channelfireball.com/home/running-the-gauntlet-esper-vs-8-player-queues/

 

[Mahorfeus]

I have the Nicol Bolas deck, it's definitely fun to screw around with. My friends have explicitly forbidden me from using it against them unless I toss them the Ajani deck. Obviously that's the way it's supposed to go being a duel deck and all, but it's funny to wipe out mediocre standard decks with it.

Now I just need to find a Commander that will let me shove Bolas and Cruel Ultimatum into it.

 

[deth2munkies]

I have the Nicol Bolas deck, it's definitely fun to screw around with. My friends have explicitly forbidden me from using it against them unless I toss them the Ajani deck. Obviously that's the way it's supposed to go being a duel deck and all, but it's funny to wipe out mediocre standard decks with it.

Now I just need to find a Commander that will let me shove Bolas and Cruel Ultimatum into it.

You could try just making a Nicol Bolas deck: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=109754

 

[Encaen]

The story of why they're fighting is explained here:

http://wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/110a#

The basic rundown is that Koth escapes Mirrodin to look for help finding the Phyrexians, find Elspeth who takes him to Venser, the resident expert on Phyrexians. Koth finds Venser studying and using Phyrexian technology and...strongly objects. It's an ideological difference, though they fight on the same side.

Spoiler

Specifically, the storyline of the original Mirrodin block was of how Memnarch, the corrupted guardian of Mirrodin, brought a ton of different races from other planes to Mirrodin as part of a huge social experiment to generate a planeswalker that inhabitants are still VERY resentful over. When he sees Phyrexian plane-travelling technology, it brings back a lot of unpleasent memories

Also, for the record on the question of the day:

Spoiler

702.17b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. The attacking creature's controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it's attacking.
Example: A 2/2 creature with an ability that enables it to block multiple attackers blocks two attackers: a 1/1 with no abilities a 3/3 with trample. The active player could assign 1 damage from the first attacker and 1 damage from the second to the blocking creature, and 2 damage to the defending player from the creature with trample.
Example: A 6/6 green creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature with protection from green. The attacking creature's controller must assign at least 2 damage to the blocker, even though that damage will be prevented by the blocker's protection ability. The attacking creature's controller can divide the rest of the damage as he or she chooses between the blocking creature and the defending player.

So you take 6 damage.

To explain further: The Mirran Crusader has double strike and is a 5/2 with trample and lifelink. On the first strike combat step, it does 4 damage to the blocking 1/4 for the "lethal damage" despite not killing it, then does 1 remaining to the player. On the regular combat damage step, it checks what damage has already been done to the creature, finds 4 damage has been done to the creature, and allows it to do all 5 damage straight to the player, culminating in 6 total damage.

Thanks for the story link, that certainly explains their mutual aggression! I'd take that pretty personally if I were Venser.

As to the question, I believe you're thinking of Indestructible creatures, which would work exactly as you've described (say the Palace Guard is equipped with Darksteel Plate [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213749].) In the case of Inviolability, however, the Damage is prevented and never marked on the creature, so the second combat damage step will look just like the first, with 1 damage going through to the player in each step. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step

Now I just need to find a Commander that will let me shove Bolas and Cruel Ultimatum into it.

There aren't too many UBR commanders, but Thraximundar [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201213] all seem like they could be fun to play, albeit hard to actually cast.

 

[deth2munkies]

The story of why they're fighting is explained here:

http://wizards.com/Magic/Multiverse/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature2/110a#

The basic rundown is that Koth escapes Mirrodin to look for help finding the Phyrexians, find Elspeth who takes him to Venser, the resident expert on Phyrexians. Koth finds Venser studying and using Phyrexian technology and...strongly objects. It's an ideological difference, though they fight on the same side.

Spoiler

Specifically, the storyline of the original Mirrodin block was of how Memnarch, the corrupted guardian of Mirrodin, brought a ton of different races from other planes to Mirrodin as part of a huge social experiment to generate a planeswalker that inhabitants are still VERY resentful over. When he sees Phyrexian plane-travelling technology, it brings back a lot of unpleasent memories

Also, for the record on the question of the day:

Spoiler

702.17b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. The attacking creature's controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it's attacking.
Example: A 2/2 creature with an ability that enables it to block multiple attackers blocks two attackers: a 1/1 with no abilities a 3/3 with trample. The active player could assign 1 damage from the first attacker and 1 damage from the second to the blocking creature, and 2 damage to the defending player from the creature with trample.
Example: A 6/6 green creature with trample is blocked by a 2/2 creature with protection from green. The attacking creature's controller must assign at least 2 damage to the blocker, even though that damage will be prevented by the blocker's protection ability. The attacking creature's controller can divide the rest of the damage as he or she chooses between the blocking creature and the defending player.

So you take 6 damage.

To explain further: The Mirran Crusader has double strike and is a 5/2 with trample and lifelink. On the first strike combat step, it does 4 damage to the blocking 1/4 for the "lethal damage" despite not killing it, then does 1 remaining to the player. On the regular combat damage step, it checks what damage has already been done to the creature, finds 4 damage has been done to the creature, and allows it to do all 5 damage straight to the player, culminating in 6 total damage.

Thanks for the story link, that certainly explains their mutual aggression! I'd take that pretty personally if I were Venser.

As to the question, I believe you're thinking of Indestructible creatures, which would work exactly as you've described (say the Palace Guard is equipped with Darksteel Plate [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=213749].) In the case of Inviolability, however, the Damage is prevented and never marked on the creature, so the second combat damage step will look just like the first, with 1 damage going through to the player in each step. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step

Now I just need to find a Commander that will let me shove Bolas and Cruel Ultimatum into it.

There aren't too many UBR commanders, but Thraximundar [http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=201213] all seem like they could be fun to play, albeit hard to actually cast.

You're right, I read someone else's answer, then reread the card and deleted that section. Damage prevention happens on the combat step, so the first strike damage is prevented before the combat damage step.

 

[Erttheking]

Ah, card games, I remember that me and my dad used to play yu gi oh when I was a kid.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

the deck lists for that duel deck set are terribad.

 

[Podunk]

I love my Phyrexian vs Coalition duel deck, especially because that was the prevalent theme when I first started playing. It's pretty much the only way I play anymore; too much Mythic Rare nonsense and power creep to make the game much fun anymore.

 

[MrMixelPixel]

The dual decks are good fun. My first was the Ajani vs Bolas duel deck. I ended up editing Bolas's deck pretty heavily. I added as much removal as I could to drag the game out. It worked well enough. It was such a great feeling having Bolas on the field =D.

I still need to get my hands Tezzeret vs Elspeth xP.

 

[deth2munkies]

I have the Nicol Bolas deck, it's definitely fun to screw around with. My friends have explicitly forbidden me from using it against them unless I toss them the Ajani deck. Obviously that's the way it's supposed to go being a duel deck and all, but it's funny to wipe out mediocre standard decks with it.

Now I just need to find a Commander that will let me shove Bolas and Cruel Ultimatum into it.

Speaking of which: http://wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/deck/939