E.A. is destroying the gaming business?

[Happiness Assassin]

No they are not destroying the industry. Sure they are hurting the industry, but video games have gone through worse and there are still companies out there that are miles ahead of EA in the Evil/Stupid department. But in actuality, they are still doing severe damage to themselves, losing money hand over fist from investors even while they have several profitable franchises out simultaneously.

 

[Tom_green_day]

EA are up there with Capcom and others as large names in the gaming industries (yes I know they have different roles) that people just love to attack. Personally, Capcom games introduced me to gaming so I don't hate them, and ME3 is my third favourite game so naturally I have no beef with EA. They've stolen no money from me, and although some of their marketing ideas are... misplaced... I don't think they are the demonic company most people make them out to be.

SO GRACIOUS OF THEM TO LIKE THE PRODUCT OUT OF THEIR BENEVOLENCE!

Ehehe, how true. This happens in music too. It makes people cater more towards the best ways to get money, than what would actually be awesome. People liking games is just a bonus.

 

[NightmareExpress]

They aren't destroying "the business". They're doing quite a decent enough job in that aspect.
But that's where the problem lies. They have their primary focus on monetization, and need to do so to be a publisher and satisfy their stockholders. They are destroying the art and soul in return for profit, because that's largely their job.
Whether or not that's wrong depends on your outlook on things.

I don't buy EA games any more as a result of not agreeing with their practices and none of their new products being on Steam.

 

[Sylveria]

Wow get off your high horse. Unless you have been involved in the production of a game please stop going on about the importance of the "fans". Fans are just people who liked what you made. You dont ow them anything. And this inflated issue of self importance needs to be kicked out of here.

If nobody likes what you've made, you go out of business. Game development studios owe EVERYTHING to their fans.

So if they dont like your product they wont buy it.

Therefore they ow everything to the fans....

SO GRACIOUS OF THEM TO LIKE THE PRODUCT OUT OF THEIR BENEVOLENCE!

I mean its not like they are being self serving in that they only came because there was something they wanted.

Consumers buy stuff they want. If they don't want something, they don't buy it. If you make something they don't want and don't buy, you go out of business. A business can not survive without customers, customers can survive without a business.

If EA stopped making games, there'd be no negative impact on the existing EA consumer/fan-base than them having more money to spend elsewhere. However, if that consumer/fan base stopped buying EA poduct, EA would fail.

Yes, they owe everything to their consumer/fan-base because a company can not exist without people who buy their stuff. The motivation of the people who buy the product is irrelevant. A game company NEEDS people to buy their games. People, conversely, have no need to buy games. They WANT to buy games, but can survive without.

On topic, I do not support EA in any fashion. In the rare occasion their name is attached to something I do want, I do not buy it. I find their attitude, their general lack of ethics, and their anti-consumer practices deplorable. They were also one of the leading proponents of SOPA and frequently use piracy as an excuse for their own failings. If gamers weren't the most complacent consumer-base in existence, they'd likely have gone out of business years ago.

 

[major_chaos]

Wait, what? Unlike that of Origin, Steam staff actually treats people like human beings,

In my experience Steam has some of the worst customer support I have ever had to deal with, while EA has been quick and helpful.

the system functions extremely well

Which is why it slows my comp to a crawl when starting, has annoying technical issues, and the stupid chat stops working every so often? things that origin never does?

- The forced use of Origin (a broken system)

Broken? yea no. Origin isn't at Steam's level because it hasn't even had half the time to mature, and its still a perfectly acceptable platform.

- The gaming companies EA has bought and pretty much wrecked

Draech already pointed out why this is wrong. Many of the companies that EA supposedly destroyed were already circling the drain.

- EA Bioware is under constant fire (Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2)

By a bunch of very loud people on the internet. I played both and enjoyed both and I'm fairly sure that I'm far from alone on feeling that way, the rage crowd is just much more vocal.

- EA looking for easy cash grabs (which has been brought up again since Dead Space 3 announcement)

Which has been blown massively out of proportion as of the DS3 announcement. Game companies exist to make money, EA just tries to do it in the dumbest most blunt way possible.

- Whenever sometimes goes wrong at EA, instead of admitting they screwed up, they are blaming it on other things (like they did with Warfighter)

Horrible PR seems to be the industry standard these days from everyone except Valve, which just so happens to be run by a man who is a master of breeding fanatic loyalty. nothing about this make EA evil though.

- (EDIT) Rolling out yearly installments of the same game (e.g. EA Sports)

Then don't buy them? if they are rolling out yearly then it means people are buying them and you can hardly expect EA to intentionally not make money.

- Do you believe EA is harming the gaming business?

Nope, and I chuckle every time some one claims they are.

- Do you still buy games from EA?

Yup. and I'm sick of pretentious people on the internet telling me that I'm killing the hobby becuse I have the gall to buy the games I want to play. (That wasn't aimed at you, just to be clear)

I ask because I still see a lot of people pre-ordering / buying games from EA and at the same time see a lot of people complaining about EA. So, why don't just stop buying their games altogether?

Because the people complaining are a minority, and EA publishes plenty of good games inspite of their missteps.

 

[Vigormortis]

My question is two-fold:
- Do you believe EA is harming the gaming business?
- Do you still buy games from EA?

By "business" I assume you mean "industry", yes?

If so, then no. Of course not. That's ridiculous.

An argument could be made that they're harming gamers, but even that would be an exaggeration - one hell of an exaggeration, in fact.

What they are hurting is their own business. They've been steadily losing millions over the past few years; thanks in no small part to their shoddy business model and bad PR. (the latter of which is brought on as much by themselves as it is bad press or gamer backlash)

Do I still buy games from EA?

No, I do not. I hope that changes, but I'm dubious it will.

The reflexive hatred toward EA has far surpassed the point of being reasonable.

In some instances, yes. I agree. Some people take their complaints too far or complain about the most inconsequential things in regards to EA. But that's true of just about every publisher or developer.

You, I, and many others on this forum are guilty of this as well. I've seen you levy some pretty flimsy complaints against "certain developers", whereas I know I've been too harshly critical of Activision/Blizzard. Something I've been trying to cut back on.

While I'm all for calling out a company on their bullshit, all EA has done is franchises and sequels, and fail to keep dying companies alive. They haven't done anything truly evil. So the whining dipshits need to get over themselves.

It has always annoyed me when I hear gamers call publishers "evil". It's a gross misuse of the word. Especially when one considers there are companies out there that are guilty of human-rights violations.

However, EA is guilty of more than just franchising, making too many sequels, and "destroying" struggling developers. (that last bit usually gets blown out of proportions). For example, EA recently thinking it "sensible" to ban users, permanently, from their EA/Origin accounts for not reporting bugs found in any betas those users were participating in. I think it's not too much of a stretch to consider such a move as, in the very least, a wee-bit evil. Perhaps not "hand-wringing, cat-on-lap, world domination" evil, but certainly "misguided and vindictive" evil.

[sub]still not evil[/sub]

You don't have to buy their games, or their DLC. So there's no point in crying about them.

You're right. I don't have to buy their games or their DLC. And, I don't plan to. Not any more.

The most recent (and by recent, I mean over a year ago) EA-branded games I purchased were Dead Space and Dead Space 2 during a Steam sale. From the looks of things, they will be the last.

I wish that wasn't the case. I used to be a fan of EA and the series under it's label. But, their gradual decline in quality and increasingly abhorrent business practices have pushed me to a point where I simply can not support them monetarily.

The same can be said of Ubisoft. In fact, given that I'm primarily a PC gamer, my disgust of Ubisoft exceeds that of my disgust of EA.

 

[Vigormortis]

So a buddy bought a $2.50 game off Steam, but the next day he lost his card. No problem, phone up the bank, get the old one canceled and send a new one in the mail right?

Oh wait, Steam didn't actually charge his card til 5 days later from the original purchase date. The old card number that was in the transaction isn't valid anymore. Well, let's lock his account down for fraud.

He's still trying to argue with the bank and Valve/Steam over it. Obviously the bank knows it's not fraud, and tells him to just use the new card. But he can't even get Steam to accept the new updated card. Because the account was flagged as fraudulent. Not even to reverse the game transaction so he can go buy it again with the new card.

I guess he could call them up like you can for EA's CSR and ... oh wait, there's no number to call, you have to rely on forum and emails.

So he's still locked out of his Steam account.

Over $2.50.

I had something similar happen to me some time ago.

However, it took me all of two days to clear it up. I started a support ticket with all the requisite info and, an e-mail or two later, my account was unlocked and back in order.

And even then, those two days went by almost unnoticed, given I could still play most of my games in offline mode.

A short time prior to that, a friend of mine had had account issues with EA. He spent almost five weeks trying to clear everything up with EA; sending e-mails, calling their support centers, etc. To say EA's support was less than helpful would be a gross understatement.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I guess it's true what they say:

User experience may vary.

:/

 

[Bullfrog1983]

There is a general consensus that EA is doing more bad than good to the gaming business.

Quite a few arguments have been made against EA (in no specific order):
- The forced use of Origin (a broken system)
- The gaming companies EA has bought and pretty much wrecked
- EA Bioware is under constant fire (Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 2)
- EA looking for easy cash grabs (which has been brought up again since Dead Space 3 announcement)
- Whenever sometimes goes wrong at EA, instead of admitting they screwed up, they are blaming it on other things (like they did with Warfighter)
- (EDIT) Rolling out yearly installments of the same game (e.g. EA Sports)

...And the list probably goes on.

My question is two-fold:
- Do you believe EA is harming the gaming business?
- Do you still buy games from EA?

I ask because I still see a lot of people pre-ordering / buying games from EA and at the same time see a lot of people complaining about EA. So, why don't just stop buying their games altogether?

On a side note, I should mention that the shit storm that was the ending of Mass Effect 3, did show the incredible influence Bioware holds over people and in turn that gamers can rise and stand up.

Here's my response to the two questions:

1. Is EA harming the gaming business?

If you are talking about their own business then I would say yes. EA has made many good games but lately they seem to be on a downward spiral in quality of games - at least in my opinion. If you mean gaming in general? No. There are a lot of good non-EA game studios out there making awesome games.

2. Do you still buy games from EA?

I haven't bought a game from EA since Dragon Age 2 - at least not that I know of. I do want to buy Mass Effect 3 to finish off the series. The first two were really good and I'm hoping the third one will be okay because I will be going in with low expectations.

 

[Antari]

Wait, what? Unlike that of Origin, Steam staff actually treats people like human beings, the system functions extremely well, there's excellent support for all kinds of games of any size or department, software other than games is also allowed...

So a buddy bought a $2.50 game off Steam, but the next day he lost his card. No problem, phone up the bank, get the old one canceled and send a new one in the mail right?

Oh wait, Steam didn't actually charge his card til 5 days later from the original purchase date. The old card number that was in the transaction isn't valid anymore. Well, let's lock his account down for fraud.

He's still trying to argue with the bank and Valve/Steam over it. Obviously the bank knows it's not fraud, and tells him to just use the new card. But he can't even get Steam to accept the new updated card. Because the account was flagged as fraudulent. Not even to reverse the game transaction so he can go buy it again with the new card.

I guess he could call them up like you can for EA's CSR and ... oh wait, there's no number to call, you have to rely on forum and emails.

So he's still locked out of his Steam account.

Over $2.50.

Sounds like your buddy is too lazy to use the support area and email. I've never had even the most ridiculous question go longer than 3 days without an answer. If he explains what has happened something can be done about it. If hes too lazy to do that, then so be it. Its Steam who locked the account not the bank, so there isn't much point in calling them.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Here's how I look at it. I'm not a blind fan of EA's. I know they have some business tactics that are...not exactly kosher. However, I have yet to find an example of them doing something that I can't also find other game companies have done.

Buying studios that then get shut down? Activision has done the same thing. RedOctane, Radical Entertainment, Bizarre Creations...that's just a few that Activision has shut down.

Rushing game schedules, causing the end game to suffer? Hmm...KOTOR II, anyone? And at least EA didn't tell Bioware they weren't allowed to fix any problems with the game, like LucasArts did to Obsidian.

Misaimed marketing? Oh, there is a lot of that to go around. Every game publisher has at least one ad campaign that backfired.

Banning people, locking them out of their Origin library? Same thing happens on Steam.

Refuse to accept blame, shifting it around? Forget game companies, that's pretty much every corporation ever.

EA is not perfect, but calling them the devil and saying they deserve to die for practices that they aren't the only ones guilty of is going a bit far.

 

[Ryan Minns]

One has to wonder how much love EA would win if they just made a DK3, seems a lot of people dislike them due to the IP sitting they do!

But a nice DK3 would be awesome... but not the first person shooter genre it'll be a part of

 

[ultramarine486]

Wow get off your high horse. Unless you have been involved in the production of a game please stop going on about the importance of the "fans". Fans are just people who liked what you made. You dont ow them anything. And this inflated issue of self importance needs to be kicked out of here.

If nobody likes what you've made, you go out of business. Game development studios owe EVERYTHING to their fans.

So if they dont like your product they wont buy it.

Therefore they ow everything to the fans....

SO GRACIOUS OF THEM TO LIKE THE PRODUCT OUT OF THEIR BENEVOLENCE!

I mean its not like they are being self serving in that they only came because there was something they wanted.

Consumers buy stuff they want. If they don't want something, they don't buy it. If you make something they don't want and don't buy, you go out of business. A business can not survive without customers, customers can survive without a business.

If EA stopped making games, there'd be no negative impact on the existing EA consumer/fan-base than them having more money to spend elsewhere. However, if that consumer/fan base stopped buying EA poduct, EA would fail.

Yes, they owe everything to their consumer/fan-base because a company can not exist without people who buy their stuff. The motivation of the people who buy the product is irrelevant. A game company NEEDS people to buy their games. People, conversely, have no need to buy games. They WANT to buy games, but can survive without.

Few flaws in your logic here

A: Yes they are making a luxury product. That means the market can do without but it doesn't mean the market WILL go without it.

B: Fan =! Customer. Different things. What they need is customers. Not fans. And once you have done your purchase the relationship stops.

Fans are not the same as customers. Their money is no better than anyone else nor is their opinions. All you do as a fan is like something alot. it doesn't make you special. And the publisher dont ow them anything because they paid their dues the second the CUSTOMER gets the product. Fandom is complete irrelevant overblown fluff made important only to the fans themselves.

Isn't that logic a little basic though? Sure once money exchanges hands the at face value towards the company/game is equal. However I would argue that fans earn their importance, albeit not anywhere near the point where the company NEEDS them, though things like word of mouth. I mean by the logic you presented free to play games should really be shafting anyone who isn't paying for whatever services they provide for cost since those people are valued less or not equal to the ones who buy the extras. Look at Kickstarter, there are numerous games in development/completed there that wouldn't have gotten anywhere if it wasn't for fans spending time pushing the word of mouth.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I don't think EA represents the whole of the game industry and does not have the power to influence the entire industry. despite what the alarmists keep shouting there range of influence is great but not all encompassing. They are the Wal-mart of the industry. They wreck shit and are shady as hell but don't secretly control the entire world and influence all other stores. I don't think they are killing games because one one force can kill games.

People hate on EA like WW2 games hate on Nazis. Its actually made me more suspicious of anti-EA talk then of EA itself.

 

[Cyrin]

"-Do you believe EA is harming the gaming business?"

Yes. Some of EA's practices are harming he game industry. I do think that they are more likely to harm themselves than the industry as a whole.

"- Do you still buy games from EA?"

No. The last game I bought that was an EA title was Mass Effect 2.

I was put off by Origin initially when Mass Effect 3 came out but that later gave way to price.
The games they've put out seem to have had bits intentionally cut out to make way for DLC/Expansion packs (The Sims, ME3).

For the amount of content and quality(Dragon Age 2) of it the prices seem a bit too high and stay that way for a long time.

 

[Pandabearparade]

We get it, they have shitty business practices. Deal with it.

Alternatively, don't deal with it and don't buy their games. A lot of people must be doing just that, considering they keep taking quarterly losses.

 

[Ryan Minns]

One has to wonder how much love EA would win if they just made a DK3, seems a lot of people dislike them due to the IP sitting they do!

But a nice DK3 would be awesome... but not the first person shooter genre it'll be a part of

As much as I would love to see it happen the IP was sold to a Chinese MMO developer long ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp6ZXsmaq-E
So we wont be seeing anything with the name. Doesn't matter much since there will more than likely be a game scratching the same sort of feelings DK did. I know that War for the Overworld is a complete spiritual successor to DK and that is in production.

Yeah I looked at that and may even pledge some money. I didn't mind it but I'm hoping it's not the same "spiritual successor" that Dungeons was. Kept hearing that game was "Just like Dungeon Keeper" and got something different but was ok in it's own right.