EA defends itself against thousands of anti-gay letters

[Therumancer]

"Political Correctness" is not just about being nice to people, or tolerating them being around, but acknowledging their fundemental right to included in everything, and forcing that when need be. Entitlement is the issue, not simply being nice, or polite.

No, that's Rush Limbaugh's definition of political correctness. I go by the real definition, the one that says we should recognize there are demographics in this world other than white men.

To point this out though, never mind suggest solutions, is politically incorrect. Political correctness having become an issue and an insult largely because of the baggage it carries with it, and the fact that it simply puts so many issues totally off the table for discussion, as it by definition does not allow people in general to admit many problems even exist.

How is that not just generic human stupidity? Because that's not an issue exclusive to race or culture by any stretch of the imagination.

My argument stands that studios interfere and crowbar this shit in because they think that's what will make them more money. They've been doing shit like this even before political correctness was even a thing.

To get back to the topic of Bioware for a second, you mentioned the people bitching about Shepard now having the option to be gay. To all those people who complained, fuck 'em. It's entirely optional and I'm willing to bet a lot of them never played any of the romances anyway. If the presence of a potentially gay protagonist offends their fragile male identity that much, then they can go ahead and not buy the game. I have no sympathy for them. None.

In this paticular case Rush Limbaugh, and those who agree with him, happen to be right. This is why "political correctness" exists as a label as opposed to "just being nice to people" or a more general definition of being tolerant.

You seem to miss the point entirely on "Mass Effect 3", as many people who agree with you do, that the issue is not about the gay options for most of the people argueing. It's about entitlement, the idea that there were not supposed to be gay romance options in the game according to the creators, and they put them in BECAUSE people started attacking the game and calling it bigoted for not catering to the entitlement of that demographic. This is why "Mass Effect 3" became an issue, and "Dragon Age: Origins" did not, a point missed by everyone deciding to defend the desician or to attack those who do not like it.

As far as the issue of "realizing there are more than white men in the world" I think that falls under the catagory of "duh". Globally whites are one of the least numerous ethnicities, and even our countries that dominated during the end of conquest are starting to see us as a minority due to our own tolerance and open immigration policies. Before too long whites are going to be outnumbered by Latinos in the USA, and people aren't exactly unaware of it.

The issue with political correctness is specifically one of forcing minorities into the work of creators who did not intend for characters of that sort to be present. Not every kind of person fits into every specific work, and the artistic integrity of the creator is important. To say that you should have minorities, of any sort, present as an entitlement in something that is "too white" is akin to say that more whites should be shoehorned into say spanish language television, HK action movies, or productions with an all, or mostly black cast, and treated with respect (as opposed to the "nerdy white guy" that shows up in black comedy). It's kind of ridiculous when you put it that way.

Overall I see it as a non-issue nowadays because as time goes on I do not think your going to see a white domination of the media anyway. Plenty of developing nations are producing their own films, and when some of those countries realize what a big business it can be, I expect to start seeing some actual equivilents to Hollywood out there. The most important thing is not just going to be changes when the numbers are right overnight, but how over a period of decades your going to see say Latinos due to their numbers producing most of the creators in the US, and casting other Latinos simply because that will mostly be what's out there. Right now in a country that has been dominated by whites as the most numerous ethnic group, it's not surprising you see the current trends.

When it comes to gays, your dealing with a very tiny group of people, and one that is not likely to ever increase the same way in proportion to the population. As a result it's not something your going to see many creators, even unbigoted ones, gravitating towards, although it will happen. Forcing the issue however by declaring them entitled to a prescence just destroys the creativity integrity of the work being produced.

 

[Therumancer]

It's about entitlement, the idea that there were not supposed to be gay romance options in the game according to the creators, and they put them in BECAUSE people started attacking the game and calling it bigoted for not catering to the entitlement of that demographic.

So it's completely beyond the realm of possibility that they just changed their minds? The gay conspiracy is the only true explanation.

This is why "Mass Effect 3" became an issue, and "Dragon Age: Origins" did not, a point missed by everyone deciding to defend the desician or to attack those who do not like it.

Actually there were a number of self-righteous, insecure dickheads bitching about how Zevran hit on them that one time. So yeah, whenever I hear people complain about the presence of a gay character in media, I honestly could not give a fuck about their complaint even if I had a lifetime supply of free, giveable fucks. It's all optional anyway and if it offends your sensibilities that much, just don't buy the fucking game. Get this, I've seen movies that were just cheap, shallow pandering with no artistic value and that would doubtless insulted my intelligence. So I totally didn't watch them.

Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, and people who complain about everything. The people complaining about Zevran however were nothing compared to the people complaining
about what happened with ME3, you didn't see these huge articles and industry-wide discussions and battles over it because not many people saw it as being a big deal with Zevran, where they DO see pandering and changing an existing franchise as a big deal.

It's possible they changed their minds, but unlikely, and the campaigning and demands of entitlement that co-incided with it is uncanny and influances people's perceptions. What's more changing their mind part way through an established work is NEVER a good thing, and invokes ire all on it's own.

Had they decided to include gay-male options for Shepard all the way back in ME1 this would not have been a big issue. Yes, some would have complainted, but it wouldn't have been anything like this.

I'll also say that minority groups need to learn to zip it, and let social trends do their thing. Let creators come to their own conclusions and do what they are going to do, so when they decide to create a character of a specific sort it's genuine. Campaigning, making demands of entitlement and representation, and calling companies and creators bigoted due to exclusion by definition taints any inclusion of the minority from that point onward.

To an extent I think the issue is that when the gay community saw what "Bioware" did with "Origins" on their own, they felt the need to demand this for every game, and that is where they went wrong, if they had just kept a sock in it and let Bioware gradually work that stuff in when it's writers felt it was appropriate, they might have gotten what they wanted over a period of time, without this kind of backlash. Right now a situation has been created where things are going to remain divisive for years, exactly the opposite of what the demands were intended to do happened, pretty much everything Bioware decices to do from now on when it comes to minorities is going to be under a microscope, and you can thank impatient people with big mouths and a sense of entitlement for that.

 

[Lesd3vil]

You're perusing one romantic interest, and at the same time you're developing another one that you didn't want without realizing it. It's just bad game design.

EGAD! This happens in real life all the time! Therefore LIFE IS BADLY DESIGNED! Take that, nature and evolution!

But seriously, people need to get the fuck over homosexuality. The ironic thing is that in pre-christian society sodomy was usually legal and accepted. Yeah, the barbarians were more progressive and open-minded than modern people, with their pantheons of gods and their lack of technology...

 

[renegade7]

It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.

You know I am all for gay's rights and I think inclusiveness is something that should be encouraged but that character was so blatantly a token it wasn't even funny. I think this may actually have been a good idea.

I actually think that in the spirit of a diverse range of options you should have maybe been able to have a really conservative character who doesn't tolerate homosexuality. Or perhaps one who is really no nonsense and doesn't tolerate flirting or shenanigans of any kind within his command. Both would have made for interesting Renegade conversation options. Or perhaps an option to say "You know you seem like a decent guy but I just don't spin that way." I find it so irritating that the only relationship (for both male and female characters) option in Mass Effect is "A few deep and revealing conversations then sex". And if you say you aren't interested in a relationship say goodbye to any more interesting conversations out of that character.

 

[dfphetteplace]

If you don't want to play a gay character, don't.

 

[CheckD3]

It's truly a sad day when people who claim family values are calling for the end of choice for those who think differently than themselves.

I felt like the homosexual relationship I had in ME3 (played as a woman cause I love Jennifer Hale, and got it on with the Communications lady cause she was awesome) felt natural, and didn't force it, but at the same time, didn't seem too out of place.

I could understand if by putting it in, you had characters who were homosexual trying to guilt or force you into being homosexual, that's as bad as forcing your character to be heterosexual. But allowing people to make a choice isn't wrong, it's not only a good business decision to allow those people to make themselves in their character, but also adds another freedom that games lacked coming into the generation of gaming.

Let people make their choices, if you don't agree, whoopdydoo. Everytime you disagree with someone's stance, they're also disagreeing with you, deal with it, tolerate it, and move on.

 

[Rheinmetall]

Since EA and their good partner Bioware are so much gay/lesbian friendly, or open minded, I think it's time they made an exclusively gay, or lesbian game.
I'm kidding of course, these guys' single goal is profit and negative publicity, to make even more money.

 

[trty0]

It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.

I think you make an interesting point, but the fact is, we don't live in a perfect world. I think the attitude of excluding opinions that aren't "inclusive" is a bit of a double standard, but I think it's a double standard that is, more or less, necessary. If someone comes up to me and starts espousing racist hate speech, and instead of politely debating, I just tell him to shut the fuck up, I don't care if that makes me intolerant. I don't want to fucking hear it, period. I think opinions like that are regressive to society as a whole, and they don't help ANYONE. Free speech only gives you the right to speak, nothing else. It doesn't protect you from criticism of any kind, violent or otherwise. Hell, in some cases, it's actually illegal to espouse hateful opinions.

Some more examples of this thinking are in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vO1ZH9UWdE, and in MovieBob's skin deep video

 

[Syzygy23]

You're perusing one romantic interest, and at the same time you're developing another one that you didn't want without realizing it. It's just bad game design.

EGAD! This happens in real life all the time! Therefore LIFE IS BADLY DESIGNED! Take that, nature and evolution!

But seriously, people need to get the fuck over homosexuality. The ironic thing is that in pre-christian society sodomy was usually legal and accepted. Yeah, the barbarians were more progressive and open-minded than modern people, with their pantheons of gods and their lack of technology...

What? No it doesn't. I have never had a romantic interest that just came outta nowhere. Generally, by the time you're 17, you know who what and where you want to put your dick.

As far as the gay guy (Cortez? Rodriguez? He had so few lines and was incredibly forgettable) goes, he felt sort of shoe-horned into the story. That, and did anyone else notice that he was the ONLY crew member to cry? Seems a little stereotypical to make the gay guy also be the team *****. I mean come on! We never see Tali or Liara crying! or FemShep! Hell, not even Ashley cries. Gay-Space-Mexico Pilot guy is the only one. Even a Shep with FULL Paragon never cries. And we all know that Paragon Points are like, anti-Sam Motherfuckin' Jackson points. They are as far and removed from the Badass and Manly spectrum as you can get.

Captcha: Die-hard. Just like Bruce Willis and Renegade Shep.