EA defends itself against thousands of anti-gay letters

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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Ok.

Why is it that we get quotes like

"It's important that companies know these protests represent a fringe interest,"
as it relates to thousands of people protesting the homosexual content, Yet homosexuality represents the interest of 2% And then dismiss this sort of protest as a form of an antiquated bygone ignorant era without ever addressing what is pissing people off about this in the grievous over representation of pro homosexuality desensitization present in these games by representing a disproportionate amount of chars as homosexual or having the capacity for homosexuality. Literally HALF of the playable chars in Dragon Age 2 can be homosexual. 5 out of 10. That does not even account for any NPCs of that persuasion. Thats not giving people options, that is forcing acceptance of an ideology on people when you realize half the char interaction content of the game is take up to what is an actual fringe interest because that means a major portion of your content is taken up out of accommodation.

Now, before you break your mouse from violently hitting that quote button to try to portray me as some sort of ignorant homophobe, know I am not against homosexuality, or it having representation in gaming. I dont have a problem with homosexuality in biowares games, cause really how many non M rated games does bioware put out?(I would say it would be arguably out of place in ToR with its T rating, except last I checked it is not actually IN ToR) But I call a spade a spade in this respect and inundating that much time/attention to accommodate homosexual fans is at incredibly disproportionate levels whereas it goes well beyond being tolerant, goes beyond accepting, it becomes encouraging. That is why people get upset. Its not that its there, its that there is entirely too much of it in biowares games that it does even if you try to ignore it become subject to constant reminders of its presence like an elephant in the room.

While the people launching these sorts of protests typically lack the eloquence needed to express resistance to ideology they disagree with, without falling to to the standby of Ikky or religious context. (Though all the eloquence in the world wont make a difference if people will automatically dismiss your reasoning as invalid just because they disagree with it) They fail to actually express what is bothering them which is the constant pushing this ideology on people.

Not saying this movement should get any sort of traction, but Bioware should not be dismissing this as some sort of hate when in actuality it is simply resistance to the massive over representation present. Since when did not approving of the things that someone else do become synonymous with hatred as if it was impossible to be against something and not hate that it exists. When did it Ok to be intolerant of intolerance and not viewed as hypocritical?


Anyway, You may now go ahead and start your quoting engines. Know my point of all this was simply to point out that there is a thread of validity to resistance to this, and automatically siding with acceptance and encouragement of homosexuality is not the same thing as being socially progressive. Ill go ahead and state, that for the devils advocate position I have taken I have said all I intend to say. I have expressed one subjective set of thoughts on the subject, and your totally free to express your own subjective thoughts on it. Just know I have nothing else to say on it and wont be addressing any quotes on the matter.
 

Jitters Caffeine

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Dorian6 said:
Translation: "Too many people in this forum disagree with me, so I'm going to leave before you can poke holes in my tightly held beliefs. Nomatter what evidence you provide, or how sensible your argument is, I will never admit that anyone else's opinion is reasonable or valid. But I have to make sure that I tell you the reason is that I just don't feel like talking about this anymore. If I just stop responding, you might think it's because you've silenced me with your logic. Goodbye *sticks fingers in ears* LALALALALALALA"
It's the classic "Take my ball and go home" defense. People usually grow out of it when they outgrow their shortpants, but some people think that using big words will substitute actual talking points when it comes to discussion and debate and they sort of "revert" to the only arrow left in their childish quiver.
 

infohippie

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Oct 1, 2009
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DrVornoff said:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys ***** about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?
Personally, I disliked it when Anders hit on me because he was a two-dimensional, whiny little ass. I loved it when Zevran hit on me because he was charming and hilarious.

Edit: Oh, and I liked it when Isabella hit on me because she was just as entertaining as Zevran.
 

Seanfall

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May 3, 2011
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DrVornoff said:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys ***** about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?
My Warden was straight....and I still had a threesome with Zevron and that chick at the Brothel. I mean Zevron's dialogue is just too damn good to pass up on. But yeah...the complaints from the guys seem to mostly be about Gay men. And not Lesbian women. "Why does cortez hit on me." what about Liara and Tryanor and Ash when your playing a female? "Their women they no count." ....*headdesk* Not that I think most people against Gay rights are that open minded to begin with with...cause their not.
 

Trippy Turtle

Elite Member
May 10, 2010
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I can only imagine the lives people must live if they are bored and petty enough to send a letter to a company about including the option to do something legal in a game.
I wish the people would focus on fixing themselves before complaining that everything isn't up to their standards.
 

Seanfall

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May 3, 2011
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viranimus said:
Ok.

Why is it that we get quotes like

"It's important that companies know these protests represent a fringe interest,"
as it relates to thousands of people protesting the homosexual content, Yet homosexuality represents the interest of 2% And then dismiss this sort of protest as a form of an antiquated bygone ignorant era without ever addressing what is pissing people off about this in the grievous over representation of pro homosexuality desensitization present in these games by representing a disproportionate amount of chars as homosexual or having the capacity for homosexuality. Literally HALF of the playable chars in Dragon Age 2 can be homosexual. 5 out of 10. That does not even account for any NPCs of that persuasion. Thats not giving people options, that is forcing acceptance of an ideology on people when you realize half the char interaction content of the game is take up to what is an actual fringe interest because that means a major portion of your content is taken up out of accommodation.

Now, before you break your mouse from violently hitting that quote button to try to portray me as some sort of ignorant homophobe, know I am not against homosexuality, or it having representation in gaming. I dont have a problem with homosexuality in biowares games, cause really how many non M rated games does bioware put out?(I would say it would be arguably out of place in ToR with its T rating, except last I checked it is not actually IN ToR) But I call a spade a spade in this respect and inundating that much time/attention to accommodate homosexual fans is at incredibly disproportionate levels whereas it goes well beyond being tolerant, goes beyond accepting, it becomes encouraging. That is why people get upset. Its not that its there, its that there is entirely too much of it in biowares games that it does even if you try to ignore it become subject to constant reminders of its presence like an elephant in the room.

While the people launching these sorts of protests typically lack the eloquence needed to express resistance to ideology they disagree with, without falling to to the standby of Ikky or religious context. (Though all the eloquence in the world wont make a difference if people will automatically dismiss your reasoning as invalid just because they disagree with it) They fail to actually express what is bothering them which is the constant pushing this ideology on people.

Not saying this movement should get any sort of traction, but Bioware should not be dismissing this as some sort of hate when in actuality it is simply resistance to the massive over representation present. Since when did not approving of the things that someone else do become synonymous with hatred as if it was impossible to be against something and not hate that it exists. When did it Ok to be intolerant of intolerance and not viewed as hypocritical?


Anyway, You may now go ahead and start your quoting engines. Know my point of all this was simply to point out that there is a thread of validity to resistance to this, and automatically siding with acceptance and encouragement of homosexuality is not the same thing as being socially progressive. Ill go ahead and state, that for the devils advocate position I have taken I have said all I intend to say. I have expressed one subjective set of thoughts on the subject, and your totally free to express your own subjective thoughts on it. Just know I have nothing else to say on it and wont be addressing any quotes on the matter.
I think the 'fringe' comment was referring to anti-gay people. Not that Gay people are a majority, just that the people that support their rights are.
 

Gennadios

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Aug 19, 2009
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This is more of a Bioware problem, but I think it stems from the priorities of their writers. Even their best products have hit and miss parts and I do feel that some of the resources put into the gay characters can be diverted elsewhere.

I'm also a bit pissed that Kaiden didn't come out in ME3, considering how much of a ***** he came off as while telling Shep that he felt betrayed with the whole Serberus thing, it was yet another storytelling missed opportunity.

That and Harbinger. The way he talked about wanting Shep's body for examination... I know a crush when I see one.
 

Seanfall

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May 3, 2011
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Buretsu said:
Seanfall said:
DrVornoff said:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys ***** about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?
My Warden was straight....and I still had a threesome with Zevron and that chick at the Brothel. I mean Zevron's dialogue is just too damn good to pass up on. But yeah...the complaints from the guys seem to mostly be about Gay men. And not Lesbian women. "Why does cortez hit on me." what about Liara and Tryanor and Ash when your playing a female? "Their women they no count." ....*headdesk* Not that I think most people against Gay rights are that open minded to begin with with...cause their not.
Just because a woman has sex with another woman doesn't mean they're lesbians. Every girl is at least a little bit bisexual. Everyone knows that.

Isn't that what porn tells us?
And just cause a guy has sex with another guy doesn't mean he's gay. He could be bi too. You just never see the compliant about girl on girl in these things. Hell...in DA:O you can bang almost everyone if you try hard enough....hee hee...'hard enough'...hee hee 'try'. :D
 

Saladfork

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Jul 3, 2011
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You know, I have never once heard a single argument against homosexuality or gay marriage that wasn't either 1) derived from a religious point of view or 2) monumentally stupid.

I just hope game devs and the entertainment industry in general notice the number of people not pointlessly bitching about this.
 

Corporal Yakob

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Nov 28, 2009
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I never got this whole outrage with Gay Shepherd-its upto the player to make him gay! If you are so offended by the notion of a gay Shepherd then don't fucking choose the gay dialogue options!
 

Vausch

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Dec 7, 2009
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dreadedcandiru99 said:
Kahunaburger said:
Pearwood said:
omicron1 said:
issues under debate
That's kind of the point, the debate's over in most places. Virtually all of Western Europe has some equivalent of same sex marriage, designing games just to cater to a few backwards places in America is never going to happen.
The second is that in the context of the Mass Effect setting, gay marriage is not a controversy. Much like how it isn't a controversy in Assassin's Creed II. Settings that aren't the modern world are under no obligation to have their political issues mapped to modern political issues, and it is in fact often strains the suspension of disbelief when they do.
Pretty much this. Support for marriage equality has been steadily trending upward for years, so it stands to reason that by the time we're flying around in space, nobody will think anything of it. Hell, it's pretty much beyond debate now.
The world of Mass Effect show is as completely fine to have sex with aliens, IE interspecies. Gay sex or marriage in a world like that would probably be seen as trivial.
 

Mr Pantomime

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My child had a gay encounter in Mass Effect, and now they are a rapist. So I sent EA a letter, what of it?
 

DaHero

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omicron1 said:
Kahunaburger said:
omicron1 said:
It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.
Would you expect a modern game with dialogue options to give you the option to oppose giving women the right to vote?
I expect any game dealing with issues under debate to serve both sides equally. For example: If there is a question dealing with religion, I should be able to respond either as a religious person or as an atheist. If there is a question dealing with gay marriage, I should be able to respond either for or against.
And yet, we can run around and be gay all we want, but I couldn't join the New Canaanites.
 

AntiChri5

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Nov 9, 2011
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Adam Jensen said:
Most of those letters are from Florida? Who knew.

As Tommy Vercetti would say: Dumb.Florida.Morons.

No disrespect to sane people of Florida.

I don't have a problem with gay romance option. I have a problem with how it was integrated in the game. But that's the least of ME3 problems.

I still think we should be able to choose character sexuality in character creator. It would make a lot more sense and it would put a lot of people at ease. In Dragon Age 2 Anders came on to Hawke for no apparent reason. If I had the option to choose Hawke's sexuality from the beginning that wouldn't have happened. Things like that can ruin your playthrough. You're perusing one romantic interest, and at the same time you're developing another one that you didn't want without realizing it. It's just bad game design.

I almost made the same mistake in ME3. Luckily I read about romance options before playing. The game doesn't even tell you that you're perusing a relationship with Cortez until it's too late. I blame the lack of sexual preference choice and I blame the dialogue wheel and Paragon interrupt because they never say what you're actually gonna say or do.
What? The dialouge option to pursue a romance with him is VERY clearly marked. You become friends with him and help him get ovre his partners death, then convince him to go relax on the Citadel That is the friendship path.

If you go talk to him at the bar he thanks you and mentions checking out eyecandy while obviously looking at a guy. Shepard then has the option to say "I am eyecandy too" or "I will be looking at a different kind of eyecandy"

That is where you can start the romance. What is unclear about that?
 

Asuka Soryu

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Zhukov said:
Gotta protect them kiddies.

If they see something homosexual in a game they're not supposed to be playing then... good God, they might ask their parents an awkward question or two then go back to not giving a shit. Horrors above!
Truly horrific, the parents might have to do something so crazy as... parenting. o_O

Though, I imagine these letters are more from idiots who are so opposed to homosexuals, they'll attack anything that shows them in a non-negative light.
 

Alandoril

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PaganAxe said:
omicron1 said:
Kahunaburger said:
omicron1 said:
It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.
Would you expect a modern game with dialogue options to give you the option to oppose giving women the right to vote?
I expect any game dealing with issues under debate to serve both sides equally. For example: If there is a question dealing with religion, I should be able to respond either as a religious person or as an atheist. If there is a question dealing with gay marriage, I should be able to respond either for or against.
Both times I've played as male Shepard in ME3, I became buds with Cortez (and nothing more as I had other love interests in those run throughs). So it is possible to talk with him without getting him as your love interest. Being the straight character shouldn't automatically make you a homophobe, and being acceptable to homosexuals shouldn't automatically make you homosexual yourself.
Exactly. Very good point. You've just won an award for common sense. Congratulations, they are rarely given out :)