EA Loses Lawsuit To Original Madden Creator

[RJ 17]

Wow, between this and all the NCAA stuff going on, EA is having a rough go of things with their sports department.

"E - A Sports! It's Not Our Game!"

 

[james.sponge]

Now, if they had said it was determined by coding (which I doubt they are using the same code from 15+ years ago), features, or the general way that the game plays, I would probably be okay.

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually used parts of 15 years old code, there are tons of programs that still use ancient code from older versions to not fall apart (MS Office would be a good example of that) and getting rid of that requires time, money, and employees so it's sometimes better to just leave it be.

 

[LostintheWick]

This was a great play. Keep going, Robin!!!

 

[Corralis]

I'm glad for the guy, I really am but I just know that EA are going to need to recoup that loss and where do you guys think they are gonna get it from?

 

[Hero in a half shell]

I'm surprised this came about so soon after the judge allowed it to proceed. It's a good thing that EA have done a solid on their first quarter financials..

It's a very easy thing to prove, given that he's had almost two decades to isolate and record exactly which bits of the code he wrote are where in which game.

The hard part was getting into court in the first place, EA have stalled and stalled because they must have known they were doomed should it enter a court.

I used to do coding for an insurance company, and for every program we changed we had to sign our full name at the top with a tagline which was repeated for every single line of code in the program. Even if it was only a single line of code it had to include our name and date of change. If the protocol EA use for coding games was anything like ours then his name would be all over those game files, and finding it would be as simple as opening the code and looking at the first few lines for his name and tagline. Heck, even if EA have slowly edited out every bit of his original code through the years, it's almost certain that they would still be using the original base program template which will include his name and date of creation as the very first line of code.

If his contract says that he should be paid every time they use his code, and his name is all over the code of every Madden title, it's pretty much impossible to argue against paying the man.

Seeing a developer actually suing a corporation for the right reasons, and winning. It makes me happy. (and against EA to boot.)
Hurrah!

 

[Erttheking]

EA getting smacked in the face with a little bit of karma. Justice is sweet.

 

[Slash2x]

This is built-up result of the Madden Curse. Being on that cover once can ruin your career.
Guess what? Every single installment in the Madden series has had EA on the cover O_0

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/320/900/b22.png

From your keyboard to the judge ruling over the case ears.

OT:

As a programmer I know that sourcing other code is not all that uncommon. But when you steal entire sections verbatim.... Well that is just plagiarism, and I am glad they got caught.

Apparently they kept ALL of his code for how the plays execute in the game. Because on the base level, that part of the software would not have to change even in the new games. The major change is that the games have different graphics and new models. The core execution of the plays is the exact same though.

 

[Zepherus14]

Oh that is delicious! Love to see EA finally get what's coming to them for making terrible sports games all this time.

I am a bit worried about the poor companies that have been grabbed by EA though... poor guys don't need this...

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Spoiler: Gentlemen, I brought the popcorn

If he gets even a third of what he wants in damages, I will dance with joy. I don't even play sports games but I do want to see this set a precedent in the industry. If you're going to use someone's hard work for year after year after year, you better give him his cut.

I may be enjoying this entirely too much.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

On those grounds I am okay with it. But the article says:

The jury found that several Madden games published between 1990-1996, were virtually identical to Antonick's original version of John Madden Football, and used substantially similar plays and formations.

Which states that it was based on plays and formations. Which I find... disturbing. Sounds like he could sue the NFL.

As long as it's based on the coding or some blatantly obvious thing (like every time the player scores a touchdown John Madden dances a jig) I have no qualms. I suppose you could blame it on the wording of the article, though.

The article goes on to say this

The lawsuit first popped up several years ago [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108921-John-Madden-Football-Designer-Sues-EA-for-Billions], when Antonick claimed hasn't been paid in decades even though current iterations of Madden still use his code. He originally sued the company for over $4 billion in damages, as the development deal he signed with EA back in 1986 entitled him to royalties from all derivative works of his code.

If someone owns the rights to Shakespeare's work, but I coded say.... A Book flipping intro and the dialog text in every encounter of the first of the new Shakespeare line of video games. I was promised to be paid for every time that's used.

They go on to use my code for every book in his catalog, but I only got paid for that first game. Well, I don't own shakespeare, I don't own the english language, but I'm owed for the code in the agreement that we promised.

We're not talking about who came up with the timeless formations of Football. We're talking about who could actually translate that all into code for a computer game. Especially back in the 90's when video games were still relatively new. And if they are using that code even to this day, they will have to pay.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Now let's see how EA handles this. The Madden curse came back in full force with this verdict.

Also, is it just me or am I seeing this page with only 30-someodd posts but having 143 pages worth of comments? Is Kross having his mid-week fun?

 

[shirkbot]

In other words, if EA weren't being cheap ass bastards and just paid the guy like they were supposed to the wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Realistically you can apply that notion to almost and organization that's been caught misbehaving. It's always easier to just keep your promises, especially when they're worth about 4 billion dollars...

OT: Go Team Jury!

 

[TriGGeR_HaPPy]

*snip*

OT:

As a programmer I know that sourcing other code is not all that uncommon. But when you steal entire sections verbatim.... Well that is just plagiarism, and I am glad they got caught.

Apparently they kept ALL of his code for how the plays execute in the game. Because on the base level, that part of the software would not have to change even in the new games. The major change is that the games have different graphics and new models. The core execution of the plays is the exact same though.

This, exactly. It's not just that the plays are similar, it's more because of the code. They used his code, said they would pay him for that and his code's use in future installments, and then proceeded to continue using his code without paying him.

I mean, how they didn't see this coming (and even how they decided to refuse to pay after he asked) just baffles me.

EA, it's okay. You could've just payed the guy. You don't actually have to keep up this facade of "evil gaming company", you know.

 

[evilneko]

This is built-up result of the Madden Curse. Being on that cover once can ruin your career.
Guess what? Every single installment in the Madden series has had EA on the cover O_0

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/320/900/b22.png

From your keyboard to the judge ruling over the case ears.

OT:

As a programmer I know that sourcing other code is not all that uncommon. But when you steal entire sections verbatim.... Well that is just plagiarism, and I am glad they got caught.

Apparently they kept ALL of his code for how the plays execute in the game. Because on the base level, that part of the software would not have to change even in the new games. The major change is that the games have different graphics and new models. The core execution of the plays is the exact same though.

Might this [http://hb-ip.com/Templates/media/files/Complaints/Madden%20IP%20Case%20Complaint.pdf] be the sauce of your claims?

Looks legit.

Though I have to wonder...surely, it's been tweaked and modified. At what point do cumulative improvements and modifications to a base algorithm outweigh the original author's claim on it when he hasn't contributed to the codebase in decades?

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

He's suing EA because their new Madden games are basically the same as his original version of Madden? How is he only just now becoming aware of EA's strategy for making new Madden titles?

He first claimed EA stiffed him back in 2011, EA was just dragging its feet and denying the claims.

The first stage (1990-1996 games) was pretty open and shut, now the real trial can begin.

 

[Strazdas]

Finally the original creator of madden will actually get paid for his creation. the ruling makes sense. why? why does the courts have suddenly started to follow laws and logic? where did the companies managed to loose grip on buying thier own judges?

Capcha: burger with fries.
I dont know whats up with capcha, but for the last 2 days and over 20 capchas, ALL were food related. i think it knows im fat. im afraid. mommy....

 

[Slash2x]

This is built-up result of the Madden Curse. Being on that cover once can ruin your career.
Guess what? Every single installment in the Madden series has had EA on the cover O_0

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/320/900/b22.png

From your keyboard to the judge ruling over the case ears.

OT:

As a programmer I know that sourcing other code is not all that uncommon. But when you steal entire sections verbatim.... Well that is just plagiarism, and I am glad they got caught.

Apparently they kept ALL of his code for how the plays execute in the game. Because on the base level, that part of the software would not have to change even in the new games. The major change is that the games have different graphics and new models. The core execution of the plays is the exact same though.

Might this [http://hb-ip.com/Templates/media/files/Complaints/Madden%20IP%20Case%20Complaint.pdf] be the sauce of your claims?

Looks legit.

Though I have to wonder...surely, it's been tweaked and modified. At what point do cumulative improvements and modifications to a base algorithm outweigh the original author's claim on it when he hasn't contributed to the codebase in decades?

Specifically item number 15 is the one I was reading on a programming forum. Apparently the dynamic statistical data has not changed. They are still using his line by line code for the new games. Because the dynamic stat tracking he did , ON A GAME FOR THE COMMODORE , included tracking for mass of the player, damage from impact, and injury tracking. They just wrote code ON TOP of his code and left the core code in place.

 

[evilneko]

This is built-up result of the Madden Curse. Being on that cover once can ruin your career.
Guess what? Every single installment in the Madden series has had EA on the cover O_0

OT:

As a programmer I know that sourcing other code is not all that uncommon. But when you steal entire sections verbatim.... Well that is just plagiarism, and I am glad they got caught.

Apparently they kept ALL of his code for how the plays execute in the game. Because on the base level, that part of the software would not have to change even in the new games. The major change is that the games have different graphics and new models. The core execution of the plays is the exact same though.

Might this [http://hb-ip.com/Templates/media/files/Complaints/Madden%20IP%20Case%20Complaint.pdf] be the sauce of your claims?

Looks legit.

Though I have to wonder...surely, it's been tweaked and modified. At what point do cumulative improvements and modifications to a base algorithm outweigh the original author's claim on it when he hasn't contributed to the codebase in decades?

Specifically item number 15 is the one I was reading on a programming forum. Apparently the dynamic statistical data has not changed. They are still using his line by line code for the new games. Because the dynamic stat tracking he did , ON A GAME FOR THE COMMODORE , included tracking for mass of the player, damage from impact, and injury tracking. They just wrote code ON TOP of his code and left the core code in place.

Well then.

Throw the book at EA. Award full damages to the plaintiff. They deserve it.